Another religion question- LDS

[caitlinsmom]

So I have seen it mentioned (or implied) here and other boards that those who are LDS aren't considered to be Christians. Why is this?

 

I am not looking for a fight or anything I asking honestly.

Edited October 27, 2008 by caitlinsmom

[dangermom]

Well, I'm LDS, so I'll try to answer, though really you want Julie.

 

LDS people certainly consider themselves to be Christians, and are often befuddled when others tell them they aren't. :001_huh: There can be different reasons, but here is a list of main issues to choose from:

 

--We are not Trinitarians. We believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as described in the Bible, but do not accept any of the creeds and councils, including the Nicene. We believe the Godhead to be comprised of three separate beings united in purpose, not the 3-in-1 Trinity accepted by most mainstream Christians.

 

--We are not part of the historical Christian church; that is, we aren't Orthodox, Catholic, or Protestant, and have not broken off from any of those branches. We are Restorationists, believing that many truths were lost when the early apostles died, and that they needed to be restored.

 

--Quite often, people who say we aren't Christian are using a very narrow definition of the word, one which frequently leaves Catholics and Orthodox out as well.

 

--We do not accept the scriptural canon as closed; we have other scripture besides the Bible and look for more. We certainly believe in the Bible (we like the KJV), but we don't believe that God intends for the Bible to be all there is of His word.

 

--Some people say that we believe in a "different Jesus" and use that as a reason. I'm not at all sure what that means, actually (maybe the trinity issue?). We believe in the Jesus Christ described in the Bible: the only begotten son of God, born of a virgin, who offered himself up as a sacrifice for men, who suffered for our sins, died on the cross, was resurrected after 3 days, established his church on earth, and then ascended into heaven.

 

Hope that helps you. We are different--but we are Christian. Jesus Christ and the Atonement are the foundation of our faith. But there is quite a lot of misinformation out there, and many people have erroneous ideas about our beliefs.

[FlockOfSillies]

Here are thumbnail sketches of some of the doctrinal issues: http://www.wfial.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=artMormon.article_6

 

http://vintage.aomin.org/LDSGrace.html

 

http://vintage.aomin.org/itestify.html

 

And here are some that go into greater detail:

http://vintage.aomin.org/BEGOTTEN.html

 

http://www.watchman.org/profile/ldspro.htm

 

http://www.waltermartin.com/mormon.html#mormcon (Scroll down to the section on Mormonism. It's white Arial font on a black background, so you may want to print it out to prevent eyestrain.)

 

And if you really want heavy detail, you can read an entire book on the subject from the perspective of a Christian apologist:

http://www.novus2.com/alphamin/LETTERS/MAINPAGE.htm

 

HTH.

[Julie in Austin]

I'm LDS.

 

Dangermom said pretty much what I would have said.

 

I think it is safe to say that LDS aren't "mainstream Christians" or "traditional Christians" because we have somewhat different beliefs regarding the nature of God and the canon. We also define some terms differently than other Christians do.

 

Most LDS are very offended if you tell them they aren't Christians, because they believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, died for their sins, was raised from the dead, is the only path to God, and is the author and finisher of their faith.

[Julie in Austin]

Here are thumbnail sketches of some of the doctrinal issues: http://www.wfial.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=artMormon.article_6

 

http://vintage.aomin.org/LDSGrace.html

 

http://vintage.aomin.org/itestify.html

 

And here are some that go into greater detail:

http://vintage.aomin.org/BEGOTTEN.html

 

http://www.watchman.org/profile/ldspro.htm

 

http://www.waltermartin.com/mormon.html#mormcon (Scroll down to the section on Mormonism. It's white Arial font on a black background, so you may want to print it out to prevent eyestrain.)

 

And if you really want heavy detail, you can read an entire book on the subject from the perspective of a Christian apologist:

http://www.novus2.com/alphamin/LETTERS/MAINPAGE.htm

 

HTH.

 

I would hope that anyone reading these links would also check out some neutral or positive sources for information about the LDS faith. While there are some accurate statements and good information in the links that I followed here, there's also some shading and misrepresentation (or perhaps misunderstanding) and so I would hope that anyone exploring this issue would seek out a greater range of viewpoints.

 

For example, here's a recent sermon from a high-ranking leader--obviously a pro-LDS viewpoint but here's how LDS would describe themselves in regards to whether our faith is biblical:

 

http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-775-15,00.html

 

For another viewpoint, one could look for the books that Robert Millet (an LDS scholar) has co-written with various evangelical thinkers where they (respectfully and clearly) explore each other's beliefs and where they differ.

[dangermom]

Yay, Julie's here! She's way smarter than me.

 

FoS, some of those links are not accurate about LDS beliefs. I would also encourage people to go to neutral or LDS sources for clear information; when I want accurate theological information, I go to the documents of the religion in question.

 

Julie recommended the books co-authored by Robert Millet and evangelical thinkers. I have the first one here (How wide the divide?: a Mormon & an Evangelical in conversation), and here I quote from Millet's comments (pp.145-148) on faith vs. works, as FoS posted a link about that:

[LDS] enthusiastically endorse the validity of salvation through grace by faith, but insist that 'faith' not be totally divorced from its Semitic origin meaning 'faithful' (Hebrew 'āman)...consequently, the LDS concept of being 'in Christ'...is one of covenant relationship. While there are no preconditions for entering into the covenant of faith in Christ to be justified by his grace through faith, there are covenant obligations incurred by so entering. Those who have been justified by faith are obliged to serve Christ and to make him their Lord by imitating him in their behavior and keeping his commandments (Jn 14:15, 21; 15:8, 10; Rom 6:16; 1 Cor 6:9-10). As reflected in the LDS eucharistic prayers, the obligation of believers is that we are in principle willing to take him name on us, willing to always remember him and willing to keep his commandments. This willingness to remember and to serve him and not serve sin, a commitment of faith, in turn guarantees that we will have his Spirit with us.

...

Whatever good works Christians manage to perform are not prerequisites for grace...but such works are the necessary fruits of conversion (Mt 7:19-20)...We may serve Christ poorly and still be saved Christians with lots of room for growth, but if we refuse to serve him and serve sin instead, then we are no longer his and no longer saved (Rom 6:16). All true Christians must share in principle the desire to serve God...

...

The real sticking point between LDS and Evangelicals is not whether we are saved by grace (both affirm this) but whether we are saved by grace alone, that is, without individual, personal involvement or participation. Latter-day Saints find "salvation by grace alone" to be unbiblical, and, borrowing C. S. Lewis' analogy, like cutting cloth with only half the scissors.

 

IME the arguments about faith vs. works are about 80% misunderstanding of terms; we're not that far apart, really, though we use different language to express ourselves. Though we do have a different understanding of grace, it's not an unbiblical one, nor is it unique in the Christian world. Mormons tend to read C. S. Lewis with full sympathy for his views on the question, as cited above. So I can't see that our differing doctrine on this point makes Mormons unchristian.

[Alenee]

I'm LDS.

 

Dangermom said pretty much what I would have said.

 

I think it is safe to say that LDS aren't "mainstream Christians" or "traditional Christians" because we have somewhat different beliefs regarding the nature of God and the canon. We also define some terms differently than other Christians do.

 

Most LDS are very offended if you tell them they aren't Christians, because they believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, died for their sins, was raised from the dead, is the only path to God, and is the author and finisher of their faith.

Not trying to debate; seriously just have questions.

 

I've read some books about Mormonism and have some questions based on your statements above. Do you believe that Jesus is God? Do you believe in original sin? Meaning that Romans 3:23 "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" and no one but Jesus can atone for that? Do you believe that you are going to become a god when you die? (this question was based on reading your doctrine.) Do you believe that your "good" behavior gets you into a different/higher level of heaven?

 

I have a friend that converted to Mormon this last year and has a cow if anyone thinks she's drinking coffee. She's up front with me but it's obviously something she feels pressured about in her Mormon circles. Do you believe that there are only certain types of food/drink allowable to be a "good Mormon"?

 

These are not meant in any way to be snarky. I figure it's better to ask an actual LDS rather than outright buying what a book about LDS says and since my friend is new to it, I don't want to pressure her with so many questions.

Edited October 28, 2008 by Alenee

[dangermom]

I'd love to answer as many questions as I can, so I'll be working on these, but I'd also ask you all to have a little patience. :001_smile: Remember that there are a lot more of you asking questions than there are people answering, and really I'm supposed to be running a school this morning! :willy_nilly:

[dangermom]

Do you believe that Jesus is God?

Yes, he is a member of the Godhead.

 

Do you believe in original sin? Meaning that Romans 3:23 "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" and no one but Jesus can atone for that?

Well, that's a good question, with two separate answers. All human beings have sinned and fall short, yes, and only Jesus Christ can atone for that. We are fallen beings in a fallen world.

 

However, we do not accept the idea of original sin--that Adam's transgression taints us all and that we are born in a sinful condition. Babies are born innocent and are alive in Christ (that is, they are in a state of innocence and grace) until they reach an age of accountability for their actions. IOW, you can't sin unless you know the difference between right and wrong. Thus we reject infant baptism. Children are baptized when they reach 8 years old, by which time they are usually able to be responsible for their actions. People who do not reach accountability are alive in Christ and have no need for baptism.

 

Gotta go check my 8yo's math test. :001_smile:

[Julie in Austin]

Not trying to debate; seriously just have questions.

 

I've read some books about Mormonism and have some questions based on your statements above. Do you believe that Jesus is God? Do you believe in original sin? Meaning that Romans 3:23 "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" and no one but Jesus can atone for that? Do you believe that you are going to become a god when you die? (this question was based on reading your doctrine.) Do you believe that your "good" behavior gets you into a different/higher level of heaven?

 

I have a friend that converted to Mormon this last year and has a cow if anyone thinks she's drinking coffee. She's up front with me but it's obviously something she feels pressured about in her Mormon circles. Do you believe that there are only certain types of food/drink allowable to be a "good Mormon"?

 

These are not meant in any way to be snarky. I figure it's better to ask an actual LDS rather than outright buying what a book about LDS says and since my friend is new to it, I don't want to pressure her with so many questions.

 

First off, thank you for asking actual LDS people instead of letting someone else speak for us.

 

dangermom got your first two. I'll continue:

 

"Do you believe that you are going to become a god when you die? (this question was based on reading your doctrine.)"

 

We believe that humans have the potential to inherit all that God has and that the commandment to be perfect even as God is a real thing, but certainly not "when I die." Maybe a million years later.

 

"Do you believe that your "good" behavior gets you into a different/higher level of heaven?"

 

I believe that there are gradations ("many mansions", in the KJV language), but I think it is Christ's atonement that makes any of them possible. I do think we will be judged for our choices and inherit as much as we are worthy to inherit.

 

"Do you believe that there are only certain types of food/drink allowable to be a "good Mormon"?"

 

The Church believes in the Word of Wisdom, which prohibits alcohol, drugs, coffee, and tea.

 

Let me add for some context: we don't have Sunday School meetings were sit around plotting about how we get to be gods someday. We have Sunday School meetings where we read, say, a few chapters of the New Testament and try to figure out how to apply it to our lives so we can be more Christlike. The reason I mention this is that I think it is possible to take some LDS beliefs and use them to miss the forest for the trees, so to speak.

[Mekanamom]

Yes, he is a member of the Godhead.

 

 

Hold up... I was raised LDS, and I was taught that God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost were three distinct entities. That Jesus is not actually God Himself, but his Son.

 

From lds.org:

 

The Church's first article of faith states, "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." These three beings make up the Godhead. They preside over this world and all other creations of our Father in Heaven.

[texascamps]

When I was growing up in Texas, if you visited a Christian bookstore, there was the "hate" section. It contained anti- Catholic, Orthodox, Mormon and Jehovah's Witness section (often Islam was stuck in with the Occult section) Now, over the years, most "Christian" bookstores now stick to the anti-Mormon, Orthodox and Jehovah's Witness and Islam sections and have accepted the Catholic as a customer.

 

I joined the LDS faith 10 years ago after many years of religious cynicism/ atheism/ agnosticism, leary of any faith where some ONE is making money for preaching.

 

I heard all my life that Mormons were not Christian. Of course, that came from pastors of churches who should know better. When I moved to Salt Lake on a fluke, I knew all sorts of stuff about Mormons that my relatives had told me as told to them by websites and pastors of their churches. I was so excited to live among folk as strange as I was told. I couldn't wait for the weirdness to ensue. Of course, the "facts" from the relatives and pastors were lies. Yes, lies. The craziest people in Salt Lake were the vehement anti-Mormons who would wax on and on about how crazy the Mormons were. We waited and waited with our cups of coffee and beer, to meet crazy Mormons and all we met were crazy anti-Mormons who loved to warn us about the Mormons. So over the years we watched our anti-Mormon neighbors get arrested, get divorced, have fistfights in the lawn, seek our home for safety after domestic abuse issues, do drugs, steal cars, and get evicted, all the while telling us that Mormons were nutty.

 

The truth came home when my husband was diagnosed with cancer and word got out in the law school where he was going. Within hours there were phone calls from people I didn't know offering service. Of course I poo-pooed any help or charity because I was proud. But over the weeks of surgery and radiation, people showed up with food, took care of our dog, did lawn work, helped my husband keep up with school and left messages of inspiration, and dropped off funny movies to keep up his spirits. Never once wanting us to go to church or accepting anything in return. When the crisis was over, they didn't linger with their hand out. Our non-Mormon friends said to us "We'll let you handle this in private" and disappeared never to be heard from again.

 

Yes, Mormons are crazy, we thought. They did all this for us wanting nothing in return. We didn't even know some of their names to send Thank Yous. With the birth of our first child we felt some religious foundation was in order. He didn't much want to go to the church of his youth where much of the anti-Mormon lies had come from plus he was teetering on atheism. I thought my church only preached what people wanted to hear to get donations. So we started going to the Mormon church because they had been the best example of what we thought Christ would want and never openly asked for money. When they explained the trinity, where all the beings are separate, I didn't flinch. I thought this was what I was always taught. I always though Jesus and God were separate. When I later began reading the anti-mormon literature, they tried to explain that mainstream churches believe a different trinity where they are all one. I tried to explain this to my mother, the difference and she said no, my old church believes in the trinity as the Mormons believe. I tried to tell her no, that's one of the main reasons regular Christians don't like them. She said that I must be mistaken, she'd been a member of her protestant faith all her life and there was no way they believed in a trinity of all one. I gave up. Even she doesn't understand it.

 

One other thing, no one gets paid in the Mormon Chruch. The bishop is a volunteer, the Stake President, the nursery worker, etc. We even clean our own churches. No one is getting rich being a Mormon church leader. I think this angers traditional religious leaders because they depend on their congregation to make a living. I know my tithing isn't spent on pizza parties. Its sent to do good all over the world, quietly without pomp and headlines. Another thing, I tried so hard to get those silly Salt Lake Mormons to say something bad about other religions and I couldn't get them to do it. I tried and tried. They would say "they just need to get to know us, I guess." Grrr. They'll never say anyone is going to hell (like other faiths love to do) They're getting a bad rap in California right now but Mormons will never say a Homosexual is going to hell, that is not our place to judge. We are constantly being reminded to love and be understanding and supporting of our homosexual brothers and sister. Very biblical.

 

 

 

I've read all the anti-mormon literature, because before I was baptized into the church I wanted to know all that was out there. The anti- stuff just doesn't hold up. Its obvious slant and distortion and taking what was said out of context.

 

So just like many years ago when even the Catholics were considered evil and their words taken out of context by mainstream protestants it continues on with the Mormons. The best place to get real information is from the source, not from people who have an agenda.

 

I was truly disappointed not to find a city full of crazy, evil, silly Mormons that I could enjoy making fun of, but picked up faith instead.

 

 

Sheryl

[NevadaRabbit]

LDS people certainly consider themselves to be Christians, and are often befuddled when others tell them they aren't. :001_huh: There can be different reasons, but here is a list of main issues to choose from:

 

--We are not Trinitarians. We believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as described in the Bible, but do not accept any of the creeds and councils, including the Nicene. We believe the Godhead to be comprised of three separate beings united in purpose, not the 3-in-1 Trinity accepted by most mainstream Christians.

 

--We are not part of the historical Christian church; that is, we aren't Orthodox, Catholic, or Protestant, and have not broken off from any of those branches. We are Restorationists, believing that many truths were lost when the early apostles died, and that they needed to be restored.

 

--We do not accept the scriptural canon as closed; we have other scripture besides the Bible and look for more. We certainly believe in the Bible (we like the KJV), but we don't believe that God intends for the Bible to be all there is of His word.

 

--Some people say that we believe in a "different Jesus" and use that as a reason. I'm not at all sure what that means, actually (maybe the trinity issue?). We believe in the Jesus Christ described in the Bible: the only begotten son of God, born of a virgin, who offered himself up as a sacrifice for men, who suffered for our sins, died on the cross, was resurrected after 3 days, established his church on earth, and then ascended into heaven.

 

Hope that helps you. We are different--but we are Christian. Jesus Christ and the Atonement are the foundation of our faith. But there is quite a lot of misinformation out there, and many people have erroneous ideas about our beliefs.

 

dangermom,

 

I have encountered the "befuddlement" you speak of and am frankly befuddled by it. :) There is no virtue inherent in the label "Christian" (and I am one!). Christians are befuddled by the LDS church's insistence on using the label despite, for instance, the highlighted portions above which are not Christian doctrine.

 

Please know that I have no intention of arguing doctrine or insulting the Mormons on this board. I'm just curious as to why it means so much to LDS folks to keep that "Christian" tag when the doctrines and beliefs are not historical Christianity.

 

Let me flip this around. What if I said, 'I'm Mormon, and I'm confused as to why anyone thinks I'm not Mormon. I'm a Mormon, I just don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. I'm a Mormon, I just don't believe the temple is necessary. I'm a Mormon, but I don't believe in eternal progression.' At the very least, from that statement it's clear that either I have no understanding of what it means to be a Mormon, or I'm trying to turn the label "Mormon" into something of my own definition.

[Amber in SJ]

I'll take a stab at some of these. I have been a member of the LDS church all of my life and my DH converted 8 years ago.

 

We believe that Jesus and God are two distinct and different personages. Jesus is the only begotten son of God. They are one in purpose and Jesus, by surrendering his will to the Father's will, is heir to the Father's kingdom (meaning all of creation).

 

We also believe that every person on Earth is a spirit child of God and through Christ we may become joint-heirs to the Father's kingdom (see Romans 8:16-17)

 

Our belief about original sin is expressed in a part of the scriptures we believe in called "The Articles of Faith"

"We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam's transgression."

 

We also believe in a modern-day revelation given to a prophet that is commonly called by LDS people as "the Word of Wisdom." The word of wisdom discusses health matters & food. We are told that tobacco, alcohol and stimulants are not good for the body. Coffee and tea fall into the stimulants category because of the caffeine. In the same discourse getting adequate sleep, eating meat sparingly and eating more fruits, vegetables and grains are also discussed as being healthy for the body. I feel that following these commandments serves a two-fold purpose the same as following any of the other commandments given by God. If I follow the commandments I receive blessings and I show my obedience. I certainly don't judge others who are not of my faith who drink alcohol or coffee.

 

As for the different levels of Heaven; I may not be able to explain things adequately so I apologize if this is muddled. We believe in the eternal nature of the spirit and we believe that the spirit will continue to learn and progress even after death. We don't believe in just heaven or hell as if you could get into heaven with 499 or less sins or sent to hell if you have 500 or more sins. There is repentance, forgiveness and learning even after death.

 

I hope any of this made sense and I appreciate your willingness to ask a practitioner of the faith you want to know about rather than rely the judgments of others that may have a prejudicial slant.

 

I also hope the other members of the LDS faith on the board aren't rolling their collective eyes at my inability to explain. :)

 

Amber in SJ

[dirty ethel rackham]

Sheryl,

 

What a beautiful witness!!

[mommaduck]

The biggest thing that distinguishes them from being Christian (meaning, why I don't consider them such), would be the "God once was what man is and man can become what God is" flies in the face of everything Christians believe about God and Man. Once boiled down, it is a polytheistic religion, not a monotheistic one.

[Soph the vet]

dangermom,

 

I have encountered the "befuddlement" you speak of and am frankly befuddled by it. :) There is no virtue inherent in the label "Christian" (and I am one!). Christians are befuddled by the LDS church's insistence on using the label despite, for instance, the highlighted portions above which are not Christian doctrine.

 

Please know that I have no intention of arguing doctrine or insulting the Mormons on this board. I'm just curious as to why it means so much to LDS folks to keep that "Christian" tag when the doctrines and beliefs are not historical Christianity.

 

Let me flip this around. What if I said, 'I'm Mormon, and I'm confused as to why anyone thinks I'm not Mormon. I'm a Mormon, I just don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. I'm a Mormon, I just don't believe the temple is necessary. I'm a Mormon, but I don't believe in eternal progression.' At the very least, from that statement it's clear that either I have no understanding of what it means to be a Mormon, or I'm trying to turn the label "Mormon" into something of my own definition.

:iagree:I have been taught by LDS friends that Jesus is a created being that when they say begotten it would be the same as created, and that He is the spirit-brother of Lucifer (which I confirmed on the lds.org website). This is not the Christian definition of Jesus Christ. He is God of very God, fully human and fully divine and He is most definitely not created. I do not mean any offense to the LDS members here but I do have a question that no Mormon has ever been able to answer sufficiently for me, maybe one of you can. When the Bible says to not add to it in Revelation (and in Deuteronomy) then why believe that Joseph Smith had a new revelation from God to begin with?

[TravelingChris]

I am not LDS but I won't be saying anything against them here. As a traditional Christian, I believe that only people who believe in the Trinity are Christians. Basically, I can believe that people who agree with the Nicene Creed are Christians. I know that there are some Christians who would individually agree with traditional Christian statements but are averse to creeds. As long as they are in basic agreement with them, I would consider them Christians. This means I don't consider LDS, Unitarians, and a number of others who may claim to be Christian to be actually Christian by my definition.

 

Most LDS I have met are fine people and just because I don't consider them true Christians, I don't preach hate or treat them anyway differently than anyone else.

[Amber in SJ]

Wow! you ladies are fast. While I was typing you may have had all your questions answered.

 

As for the question about why we would want to call ourselves Christian, I think it is because we feel that the original definition of Christians as followers of Christ at the time of Christ's mortal life applies to us. The points of doctrine where the LDS church diverges from other Christian churches were added later to the definition of "Christian" as the Catholic & other Christian churches evolved. Members of the LDS church consider themselves to be followers of Christ and therefore able to call themselves Christian. If a large group of Christian churches got together and voted to add a doctrine you didn't believe in to the definition of "Christian" would you no longer consider yourself to be Christian? In much the same way that a person doesn't have to be a member of a specific political party to call themselves an American.

 

More clear as mud. None of this is meant to be sarcastic or snarky, just explaining how I feel.

 

Amber in SJ

[dangermom]

dangermom,

 

I have encountered the "befuddlement" you speak of and am frankly befuddled by it. :) There is no virtue inherent in the label "Christian" (and I am one!). Christians are befuddled by the LDS church's insistence on using the label despite, for instance, the highlighted portions above which are not Christian doctrine.

 

Please know that I have no intention of arguing doctrine or insulting the Mormons on this board. I'm just curious as to why it means so much to LDS folks to keep that "Christian" tag when the doctrines and beliefs are not historical Christianity.

 

Let me flip this around. What if I said, 'I'm Mormon, and I'm confused as to why anyone thinks I'm not Mormon. I'm a Mormon, I just don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. I'm a Mormon, I just don't believe the temple is necessary. I'm a Mormon, but I don't believe in eternal progression.' At the very least, from that statement it's clear that either I have no understanding of what it means to be a Mormon, or I'm trying to turn the label "Mormon" into something of my own definition.

 

 

I can't keep up! But I'll try this one.

 

As far as I know, the requirement for being Christian is to believe in Christ as Savior. (Actually, not even that, if you read Spong. But I digress.) Mormons believe in Christ as Savior. I'm not sure why we need to be a part of "historical Christianity" in order to be Christian; we certainly disagree with much of the last 1800 years of historical Christianity, but we believe whole-heartedly in the Bible and in Christ. We try to be like the early Christians. The Councils and Creeds aren't in the Bible, so I'm not sure why I need them in order to be a Christian.

 

To say that Mormons aren't Christian is to say that Mormons don't believe in Christ. Which simply is not true. Thus the befuddlement. It seems simple to us--belief in Christ, and not much else, is what defines the word Christian.

[Spy Car]

Texascamps (Sheryl) I just want to let you know how much I appreciated the spirit of your post.

 

Bill

[Mekanamom]

I know my tithing isn't spent on pizza parties.

 

I am not trying to challenge you (or anyone)... your story was very uplifting. :) I think it's beautiful that you were given help when you needed it... bolsters my faith in the kindness of people.

 

But I have a sincere question as well, since I left organized religion at 18, and had not started to pay tithing myself before I left.

 

Do you get any kind of statement in writing as to what your tithing does pay for?

 

Occasionally, I still get tithing and fast offering slips (asking for money) either mailed to me or left on my doorstep, though I have not been to a church for over 20 years and have moved 5 times between 2 different states within that time. I have no idea how they came across my current address. ??? But that's beside the point. The point is they are asking me for money... not that that is a horrible thing or anything, but... you said they "never openly asked for money"... they do, if you are on record as being a member (active or inactive.)

 

Again, not arguing... I'm not anti-Mormon or anti-religion even though I don't attend church. Just responding with a different experience.

[Amber in SJ]

The LDS Church is a monotheistic religion because we worship one God, our Heavenly Father. We do not worship Joseph Smith, any of the prophets in the Bible, or any of the prophets in the Book of Mormon. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints worship God, period.

 

Amber in SJ

[mommaduck]

The LDS Church is a monotheistic religion because we worship one God, our Heavenly Father. We do not worship Joseph Smith, any of the prophets in the Bible, or any of the prophets in the Book of Mormon. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints worship God, period.

 

Amber in SJ

You believe that man can become God...in that, you have to believe that there is more than one God, even if you only serve ONE of those Gods, you are still polytheistic.

 

Polytheists many times worshiped only one god, but believed there were other gods as well. Monotheists believe there is strictly only ONE God (Supreme Being), period...none can become like Him. None of this world, that world, etc. ONE, period.

 

 

Btw, most Mormons I know are pretty nice. The exceptions being one I ran into that felt that anyone that disagreed with her was being "hateful" and my cousin that tried to mess my mother over (both were doing genealogical research, they offered an exchange of information, my mother gave her our stuff, my cousin disappeared after that).

[dangerdad]

What if I said, 'I'm Mormon, and I'm confused as to why anyone thinks I'm not Mormon. I'm a Mormon, I just don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet.

 

I realize that all analogies are imperfect, but there's an important distinction here. The label "Christian" covers Catholics (Roman and Orthodox), Protestants, Coptics, etc. The differences between these theologies is significant. So you have Christians that disagree on the nature of the trinity (the filioque clause, the Council of Chalcedon, etc.), yet are still called Christians.

 

My life was changed by the redeeming power of Christ. I worship Him and claim Him as my Savior. Thus, I believe I have a right to be called Christian.

[dangerdad]

You believe that man can become God...in that, you have to believe that there is more than one God, even if you only serve ONE of those Gods, you are still polytheistic.

 

Well, that's what brought up the whole Nicea issue. Arius and others got in a shouting match as to whether the Father, Son & Holy Ghost were a monad or a triad. I gotta say, many non-Christians call Christians polytheistic with a logical twist turning a 3 into 1 just to avoid the label of being polytheistic.

[Amber in SJ]

Man! I am never going to get away from the boards. All of you are asking great questions. Yes, members of the LDS church do pay tithes and other offerings. If you are a member of the church on record you will receive the forms. We know that our tithes & offerings go to building churches and temples, printing books in many languages and helping people who are in need. The church doesn't carry a mortgage on any of its buildings. As was pointed out earlier all the positions in the church are voluntary. No one is paid for the hours of service they provide to each other. All tithes & offerings are confidential. We receive a form for taxes at the end of the year of how much we have contributed.

 

As background information from me; I mentioned that my DH is a convert to the LDS church. His family is deeply evangelical. He has several uncles that are pastors and many members of his extended family that are serving missions in places like China, the Philippines, and Germany. We receive monthly letters from them asking for money for the things they need to support their family. This was a totally foreign concept to me being raised LDS. The missionaries in the LDS Church spend two years of their life on a mission and pay for it themselves. It was just something I wasn't used to.

 

I guess I should go educate my little dears,

Amber in SJ

[Katrina]

dangermom,

 

I have encountered the "befuddlement" you speak of and am frankly befuddled by it. :) There is no virtue inherent in the label "Christian" (and I am one!). Christians are befuddled by the LDS church's insistence on using the label despite, for instance, the highlighted portions above which are not Christian doctrine.

 

Please know that I have no intention of arguing doctrine or insulting the Mormons on this board. I'm just curious as to why it means so much to LDS folks to keep that "Christian" tag when the doctrines and beliefs are not historical Christianity.

 

 

I hope you don't mind if I respond to this question, and I haven't currently read below this post, so it may already be answered.

 

I'm not an active LDS as an adult, but I was raised LDS and most of my family are. Growing up, I was told COUNTLESS times how I didn't believe in Jesus Christ and therefore I was going to Hell. All LDS I know have had examples of this as well. Many people have also asked me why we worship Joseph Smith and not Jesus Christ. This was ONGOING thoughout my childhood.

 

Now...Mormons DO have different theological beliefs which can be discussed, but when Mormons are always having to defend against false perceptions about them, they (we) become defensive. (When I was 17, my future SIL, in all seriousness, asked me if it was true that on a girl's 16th birthday, she was taken to the temple and devirginized by the presthood members of the church.) :blink:

 

So in a nutshell, Mormons get tired of being told they don't believe in Christ when the backbone of the Church is about Christ. Mormons are the first to say that many of their beliefs aren't the same as other Christian demoninations. But if they are Christian or not:

 

The American Heritage Dictionary defines a Christian as "one who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus; one who lives according to the teachings of Jesus."

Edited October 28, 2008 by Katrina
typos

[mommaduck]

I gotta say, many non-Christians call Christians polytheistic with a logical twist turning a 3 into 1 just to avoid the label of being polytheistic.

Very inaccurate portrayal. But I believe that would be due to your beliefs and lack of understanding of the Doctrine of the Trinity. Basically, we won't agree ;) For this reason, I don't care what someone calls themselves; I want to know specifically what doctrines they believe, not simply what name they fly under.

Edited October 28, 2008 by mommaduck

[Mekanamom]

So in a nutshell, Mormons get tired of being told they don't believe in Christ when the backbone of the Church is about Christ. Mormons are the first to say that many of their beliefs aren't the same as other Christian demoninations. But if they are Christian or not:

 

The American Heritage Dictionary defines a Christian as "one who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus; one who lives according to the teachings of Jesus."

 

Yep, I agree with your whole post.

 

ETA: Meaning, I think that Mormons are Christian, as they fall within the definition above.

Edited October 28, 2008 by Mekanamom
clarification

[Cheryl in NM]

That the LDS church is Christ's church returned to earth. That the church was taken from this earth when the last apostle died and was returned into Joseph Smith's hands. They look at church as the living body of believers (as stated in all 4 gospels of the New Testament).

 

My opinion is that any religion that believes Christ was sent here to save humanity, died for our sins and provides us eternal life through His suffering in Christain.

 

I think that the many religions divide Christ's followers. But...I believe that the many religions are needed because people are so different. IMO, many religions can be correct despite their differing beliefs. I believe that salvation is a very personal issue and it doesn't matter what church you go to if you are right with God.

 

ETA: I mean this post with all due respect. I don't want to step on anyone's toes. I was very fortunate to spend time in SLC and made some very excellent LDS friends. They were always willing to share their faith with me and never expect a conversion. I hold the LDS faith in very high esteem.

Edited October 28, 2008 by Cheryl in NM

[Amber in SJ]

I think I am going to step out of the conversation now as we have moved past people asking questions about a faith and getting answers from those who profess that faith.

 

We have now moved to a reply to my post with "You believe..." comments when that person can't speak for me and what I believe and are only using the statement to place me in a category (polytheist) that I don't belong. I also don't agree with someone else telling a poster that their interpretation of a historical event is inaccurate due to their lack of understanding of a doctrine simply because their understanding is different from theirs.

 

I wish questions about religion could be asked by those who have sincere questions and answered by those practitioners of the faith in question without others jumping in to share what they think people of that faith believe.

 

Thank you to those who were polite and asking sincere questions.

 

Amber in SJ

[texascamps]

If you are still on record and you haven't requested being removed then they are probably assuming you want to be included. Fast offering slips are often delivered once a month on fast Sunday the first Sunday of the month and I think the are delivered go to those who cannot make it to church or choose not to go or families who like the visit. Some folks who do not tithe pay an offering. Your fast offerings go directly 100%, to the poor for food and care. We paid fast offerings for years, being leary of paying tithing, knowing it went to people who really needed it. This seemed a good option for us, wanting to be charitable but not knowing where to turn, because during this time the big scandals about the large charities paying their CEOS millions of dollars came out in the public. At least we knew the church would get all of it to those who needed it. Only until we truly knew our money wasn't being wasted did we pay tithing, and it took a good while. We worked at the LDS cannery and peanut butter packing plants and watched food being sent off all over the world. The food given away isn't even marked LDS church. Its marked Welfare services. We discuss where tithing goes in church once a year and they are out in the open about where it goes. It does go to maintaining buildings, among many other things, but if you've seen an LDS church you know there ain't much to maintain. And remember, there is no passing of a collection plate. If you pay anything, its between you and the bishop. No one else except the clerk has a clue.

 

Sheryl

[dangermom]

:iagree:I have been taught by LDS friends that Jesus is a created being that when they say begotten it would be the same as created, and that He is the spirit-brother of Lucifer (which I confirmed on the lds.org website). This is not the Christian definition of Jesus Christ. He is God of very God, fully human and fully divine and He is most definitely not created. I do not mean any offense to the LDS members here but I do have a question that no Mormon has ever been able to answer sufficiently for me, maybe one of you can. When the Bible says to not add to it in Revelation (and in Deuteronomy) then why believe that Joseph Smith had a new revelation from God to begin with?

OK, I think I might be able to clear up a few things here. This will probably be quite long, though.

 

I'm not sure that I would say that begotten = created. Mormons don't bother much about these distinctions; I'm not very good at them. So what they meant may not be what you heard, if you see what I mean.

 

Jesus existed as the eldest son of God from before the beginning of the world (indeed, he created the world at the direction of the Father). As all people are spirit children of God--he created our spirits and is truly our Father--we all existed before we were born. Lucifer was also one of these spirits (remember he was one of the great ones before his rebellion). We are all one family, in fact. It is very common for anti-Mormons to portray this as "Jesus and Satan are brothers (and therefore in league with each other)!!" which is simply a twisting of a simple doctrine in order to make people afraid of Mormons.

 

Your Bible question is an excellent one, and as you say, Deuteronomy and Revelation both contain warnings not to add to the books. Both, however, refer to the books in themselves (that is, Deut. and Rev.), not to the entire canon of scripture. After all, if the Deuteronomy scripture meant that the Pentateuch is all there is of Scripture, all Christians would be in error. In Revelation, we are warned not to add further to the book of Revelation, not to the entire Bible, which is a collection of separate books written by different authors and only gathered into its current form a few centuries later. (IIRC, Revelation is not the last book in the Bible to be written; it's just put last because of its apocalyptic character.)

 

At any rate, the proscriptions mean that man cannot add to scripture, which is perfectly true. God, however, can add to scripture at any time. He is a merciful God and knows that we need a lot of help to get through life.

 

I hope that helps answer your question. I am completely overwhelmed by this thread, and wondering how I can possibly contribute anything when I have so much to do today! I would love to answer honest questions, but at the same time I do not want to argue or get into fights about some of the misconceptions out there about us. :001_smile:

[mommaduck]

I apologise if you found me offensive. I'm speaking from the historical position of Christianity, which MOST "Christians" (since we are using the extensively broad term) stem from. Just as you would say that I don't understand how you view this or that...you also cannot claim to fully understand how the historical church viewed the Trinity, thus would not have an accurate view as to why the Council ruled as they did (and the Roman Catholic church would say the same about me when it comes to another Council, Trent I believe, and I would not take offense to that as I KNOW I don't see it their way on certain matters). On the Monotheism vs Polytheism, I am speaking from a purely logical POV. You do believe that Men can become Gods, yes? And that God was once as we are, yes?

 

The OP's question was why Mormons were not considered "Christian" by "other Christians". Just as you are answering from your perspective, I was answering from the perspective of those that the Question was most geared toward. Why do *I* not consider the Mormon church to be "Christian"? These are just a few of my reasons as they are foundational differences between the Mormon church and Traditional Christianity.

 

 

BTW, I don't find the Mormon church to be something to fear. I fear God, not man. As far as I'm concerned they are another religious sect...there are many in this world obviously as all men have their own religious beliefs/views.

Edited October 28, 2008 by mommaduck

[mommaduck]

Thank you for posting this. Though we disagree on just about the entirety of it, I still appreciate you posting these details ;)

 

OK, I think I might be able to clear up a few things here. This will probably be quite long, though.

 

I'm not sure that I would say that begotten = created. Mormons don't bother much about these distinctions; I'm not very good at them. So what they meant may not be what you heard, if you see what I mean.

 

Jesus existed as the eldest son of God from before the beginning of the world (indeed, he created the world at the direction of the Father). As all people are spirit children of God--he created our spirits and is truly our Father--we all existed before we were born. Lucifer was also one of these spirits (remember he was one of the great ones before his rebellion). We are all one family, in fact. It is very common for anti-Mormons to portray this as "Jesus and Satan are brothers (and therefore in league with each other)!!" which is simply a twisting of a simple doctrine in order to make people afraid of Mormons.

 

Your Bible question is an excellent one, and as you say, Deuteronomy and Revelation both contain warnings not to add to the books. Both, however, refer to the books in themselves (that is, Deut. and Rev.), not to the entire canon of scripture. After all, if the Deuteronomy scripture meant that the Pentateuch is all there is of Scripture, all Christians would be in error. In Revelation, we are warned not to add further to the book of Revelation, not to the entire Bible, which is a collection of separate books written by different authors and only gathered into its current form a few centuries later. (IIRC, Revelation is not the last book in the Bible to be written; it's just put last because of its apocalyptic character.)

 

At any rate, the proscriptions mean that man cannot add to scripture, which is perfectly true. God, however, can add to scripture at any time. He is a merciful God and knows that we need a lot of help to get through life.

 

I hope that helps answer your question. I am completely overwhelmed by this thread, and wondering how I can possibly contribute anything when I have so much to do today! I would love to answer honest questions, but at the same time I do not want to argue or get into fights about some of the misconceptions out there about us. :001_smile:

[Mekanamom]

We know that our tithes & offerings go to building churches and temples, printing books in many languages and helping people who are in need.

 

All tithes & offerings are confidential. We receive a form for taxes at the end of the year of how much we have contributed.

 

 

Ok, but do you get a statement or anything that shows where your dollars went? I don't know how tithing works in other churches either, so I'm not trying to single out LDS tithing or anything.

 

As a non-religious person, I would want to know exactly what my money was spent on. When I donate to, say, the Red Cross, I donate for specific projects. When I donate to groups through 4-H, I know exactly who/what my money/time/goods is going to help. I understand that may not be as important when you are supporting a church and all its works... I'm just curious if the church gives its members a statement that show where the money went. At least the big projects, like a list of churches & temples built each year, groups of people helped, etc.

[dangermom]

Ok, but do you get a statement or anything that shows where your dollars went? I don't know how tithing works in other churches either, so I'm not trying to single out LDS tithing or anything.

 

As a non-religious person, I would want to know exactly what my money was spent on. When I donate to, say, the Red Cross, I donate for specific projects. When I donate to groups through 4-H, I know exactly who/what my money/time/goods is going to help. I understand that may not be as important when you are supporting a church and all its works... I'm just curious if the church gives its members a statement that show where the money went. At least the big projects, like a list of churches & temples built each year, groups of people helped, etc.

Nope, no statement. There's plenty of news about things like new temples and so on, but no, there is no itemized statement saying that the church took in $X and $y was spent on electricity bills, $z on new nursery manuals, etc. (The list would certainly be gigantic, since all tithing goes straight to a central source and is administered from there to the entire world; it's not done on a ward-by-ward basis at all, though fast offerings are done regionally, somewhat.)

 

Since it's much more of a faith issue than anything else, it boils down to whether you believe that you should give back your blessings to God or not. Tithing is a commandment. (Then there are all the different charitable donations you can make; those go to more specific projects, but they aren't tithing.)

 

OK, tearing myself away now to go prep the house for carpet cleaning tomorrow! Really!

[Mekanamom]

If you are still on record and you haven't requested being removed then they are probably assuming you want to be included.

 

I have requested "no contact", though that agreement only seems to last as long as the current bishopric. When callings change, and a new Bishop is called, the agreement apparently changes as well. :tongue_smilie: (Or it slips through the cracks somehow.) I don't know how they got my information in the first place- perhaps through a concerned relative, though they all deny it.

 

Thank you for giving me more information. I really like the idea of the LDS Cannery- I think that's neat.

 

Back in the 70's and 80's our ward had a cleaning crew and yard maintenance that they paid for- I understand that work is done by the members now, though.

 

Ok, so where the tithing money is spent is discussed each year. That's good to know! Again, thank you for the info. :)

[Cheryl in NM]

Nope, no statement. There's plenty of news about things like new temples and so on, but no, there is no itemized statement saying that the church took in $X and $y was spent on electricity bills, $z on new nursery manuals, etc. (The list would certainly be gigantic, since all tithing goes straight to a central source and is administered from there to the entire world; it's not done on a ward-by-ward basis at all, though fast offerings are done regionally, somewhat.)

 

Since it's much more of a faith issue than anything else, it boils down to whether you believe that you should give back your blessings to God or not. Tithing is a commandment. (Then there are all the different charitable donations you can make; those go to more specific projects, but they aren't tithing.)

 

OK, tearing myself away now to go prep the house for carpet cleaning tomorrow! Really!

 

Actually, the LDS church budget and financial statements are available to church members and might be public record. They list the amount received in tithing and then all expenses. Most churches provide their members with the financials or certainly provide them upon request.

[camibami]

When the Bible says to not add to it in Revelation (and in Deuteronomy) then why believe that Joseph Smith had a new revelation from God to begin with?

__________________

 

I am not LDS, but I did live in SLC for a while and have many LDS friends. This question always makes me giggle when asked by Protestants. The verse also says not to take away, and ya'll are missing some books in your Bibles. Just saying.

 

;)

[Mekanamom]

Nope, no statement. There's plenty of news about things like new temples and so on, but no, there is no itemized statement saying that the church took in $X and $y was spent on electricity bills, $z on new nursery manuals, etc. (The list would certainly be gigantic, since all tithing goes straight to a central source and is administered from there to the entire world; it's not done on a ward-by-ward basis at all, though fast offerings are done regionally, somewhat.)

 

Since it's much more of a faith issue than anything else, it boils down to whether you believe that you should give back your blessings to God or not. Tithing is a commandment. (Then there are all the different charitable donations you can make; those go to more specific projects, but they aren't tithing.)

 

OK, tearing myself away now to go prep the house for carpet cleaning tomorrow! Really!

 

LOL, no doubt that would be a gigantic list if they itemized everything! Ok, so no list on a piece of paper even for the "big projects", but there is discussion on where the money goes. Thanks for the info!

 

Until this thread, I didn't quite know what the difference was between tithing and fast offerings either- I'm glad to know a bit more than I did!

[dangermom]

I apologise if you found me offensive. I'm speaking from the historical position of Christianity, which MOST "Christians" (since we are using the extensively broad term) stem from. Just as you would say that I don't understand how you view this or that...you also cannot claim to fully understand how the historical church viewed the Trinity, thus would not have an accurate view as to why the Council ruled as they did (and the Roman Catholic church would say the same about me when it comes to another Council, Trent I believe, and I would not take offense to that as I KNOW I don't see it their way on certain matters).

OK. So you're saying that the Catholics wouldn't see you as a Christian, just as you do not see me as a Christian, because we split on which councils to include? I'm a bit confused on this point. I realize that I don't have an understanding from the inside about the Trinity, though I've certainly read about it; I just don't see why disagreement on it throws us out.

 

The insistence on the Nicene Creed as a qualification for Christianity always confuses me a bit. Would you say that the Nicene Creed is scripture? If belief in it is necessary, what about the Christians who lived before it was written and who argued about the issue, or who lived even earlier and didn't know the issue existed at all? If I understand you correctly, you are a Protestant, though I don't know which denomination. AFAIK Protestants insist on sola scriptura, that only the Bible is authoritative, so why the insistence on extra-scriptural creeds? (I can quite see the Catholic POV on creeds, but Catholics don't usually tell me I'm not Christian, though it might be that they're just being polite.:tongue_smilie:)

On the Monotheism vs Polytheism, I am speaking from a purely logical POV. You do believe that Men can become Gods, yes? And that God was once as we are, yes?

We believe that we can be joint-heirs with Christ, as promised in the Bible. As children of God, we can grow up to be like Him (someday, long in the future)--kittens become cats, children of God have the potential to become like their Heavenly Parent. However, our Father is still our Father and God, no matter what. Likewise, in this creation our Father is all there is and it is He that we worship. Questions about where He came from aren't very relevant to our experience, and we don't mess around with it much. But even if there are others out there in other creations, they don't have much to do with us.

[dangermom]

When the Bible says to not add to it in Revelation (and in Deuteronomy) then why believe that Joseph Smith had a new revelation from God to begin with?

__________________

 

I am not LDS, but I did live in SLC for a while and have many LDS friends. This question always makes me giggle when asked by Protestants. The verse also says not to take away, and ya'll are missing some books in your Bibles. Just saying.

 

;)

Hee hee!:lol:

[dangermom]

LOL, no doubt that would be a gigantic list if they itemized everything! Ok, so no list on a piece of paper even for the "big projects", but there is discussion on where the money goes. Thanks for the info!

 

Until this thread, I didn't quite know what the difference was between tithing and fast offerings either- I'm glad to know a bit more than I did!

OTOH, Cheryl seems to know more about that than I do, so maybe you should listen to her.

 

You might be interested in learning about some of the programs the LDS Church administers--Here's the homepage of Humanitarian Services (it's pretty huge and diverse, though, difficult to list) and my favorite, the Perpetual Education Fund.

[caitlinsmom]

Wow it took me a while to read through everything on here. I am glad to see both sides of the issue have been presented. I am LDS, although only recently active with a long way to go on understand many many things. I appreciate those of you who are LDS who have answered. You have shed some light on things I was already a little sketchy about.

For those of you who arent LDS I am glad you shared your thoughts and questions too.

I really like being able to see the whole picture on things (especially religion) and you guys have also presented some things I didnt know/understand.

 

Thanks for everyone answering this thread. It has been very informative. :D

[Mekanamom]

Actually, the LDS church budget and financial statements are available to church members and might be public record. They list the amount received in tithing and then all expenses. Most churches provide their members with the financials or certainly provide them upon request.

 

That's good to know!! Thanks.

[dangerdad]

Ok, but do you get a statement or anything that shows where your dollars went? I don't know how tithing works in other churches either, so I'm not trying to single out LDS tithing or anything.

 

As a non-religious person, I would want to know exactly what my money was spent on. When I donate to, say, the Red Cross, I donate for specific projects. When I donate to groups through 4-H, I know exactly who/what my money/time/goods is going to help. I understand that may not be as important when you are supporting a church and all its works... I'm just curious if the church gives its members a statement that show where the money went. At least the big projects, like a list of churches & temples built each year, groups of people helped, etc.

 

I served as the finance clerk for a while. That meant I assisted in recording the donations, providing members with a list of their donations, etc. The accounts were no more detailed than: Tithing, Fast Offering, Humanitarian Aid, etc. Any donation made to a specific account was only used for the stated purpose (if someone, say, specifically said they wanted to donate to the building of a specific temple, that money was sent to that specific temple fund). Tithing was used for building services, etc. whereas Fast Offerings were used to help local people with dire need.

 

No detailed accounting was provided for members, but every outlay was very clearly identifed and required at least three signatures. Also, every 6 months I sat with a member of the church audit department and we went over the records to make sure the records were being kept correctly and expenses were duly authorized. Then I put my signature on the audit affirming that the procedure was correct.

[Pretty in Pink]

We believe that we can be joint-heirs with Christ, as promised in the Bible. As children of God, we can grow up to be like Him (someday, long in the future)--kittens become cats, children of God have the potential to become like their Heavenly Parent. However, our Father is still our Father and God, no matter what. Likewise, in this creation our Father is all there is and it is He that we worship. Questions about where He came from aren't very relevant to our experience, and we don't mess around with it much. But even if there are others out there in other creations, they don't have much to do with us.

 

i want to be sure i am understanding this correctly.

 

LDS believe we are all children of God, just as Christ is a child of God. LDS believe that, somewhere long down the road, they each have the potential to become a God and direct the creation of their own "earth." God will always be our Father, because he directed our creation on this particular earth, and LDS will potentially be the Father of the people they one day create on their earth. am i understanding correctly? if no, please clarify :001_smile:

 

i do have a new question: is it true that LDS believe that God physically came to Earth and impregnated Mary (as in, had relations with her)?

 

and lastly, i just want to be clear: does LDS teach that Jesus was created by God, that Jesus is *not* God himself, but that he is a creation of God?

[dangermom]

i want to be sure i am understanding this correctly.

 

LDS believe we are all children of God, just as Christ is a child of God. LDS believe that, somewhere long down the road, they each have the potential to become a God and direct the creation of their own "earth." God will always be our Father, because he directed our creation on this particular earth, and LDS will potentially be the Father of the people they one day create on their earth. am i understanding correctly? if no, please clarify :001_smile:

Almost. Jesus is different from us, in that he is the Only Begotten, and has always been the Son of God. Otherwise, so far so good, though the last statement is not something we discuss a lot; we don't know enough about it to really say.

i do have a new question: is it true that LDS believe that God physically came to Earth and impregnated Mary (as in, had relations with her)?

 

Nope, not true.

and lastly, i just want to be clear: does LDS teach that Jesus was created by God, that Jesus is *not* God himself, but that he is a creation of God?

This one has a long answer. You see, all of us are, in some measure, uncreated and eternal; our innermost part, which we call 'intelligence,' and which has the capacity to make choices, has always existed. Our Heavenly Father is intelligent too, only obviously much, much more so. He gave all of us spirits, so He is literally the Father of our spirits. Jesus was the first and has always been the Father's Son. The rest of us came later. We needed a way to learn and grow, which required physical bodies and life on earth. Jesus created the earth for us and volunteered himself as a sacrifice so that we may all return to God if we choose to. He is a member of the Godhead: Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, working together in unity. Christ fully represents all three.