What's a good supplement for BA?

[Seeking Squirrels]

DD is doing BA, in 3b right now. She would like it to remain her primary math program. I'm good with that, but I do want to add a little something, preferably something more procedural as is recommended in TWTM. Apparently we are really drawn to conceptual math because the ones I'm most considering seem to be more on that side. I want something that I can put the worksheets in her independent work folder and she can work through on her own. 

 

I considered doing Singapore alongside, but don't want to do 2 full programs. So then I considered just the workbook and make sure we've covered something before those papers end up in her folder, but Singapore is conceptual anyway, so maybe I need to move away from it. We thought about doing Mathematical Reasoning, but after looking at it more, I think it's going to also be more conceptual and it doesn't get very good attention here so I'm iffy on it. 

 

The only other thing on my list of possibilities is just using the Kumon 4th grade math books set. But they look very repetitive and boring. I haven't seen one in person but from samples online, it seems it's just page after page of a solid sheet of problems. While that is sort of the practice I want her to have, maybe not *quite* so repetitious. I can see us never really using most of the pages if we got those. 

 

Any other suggestions? Secular only, please. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Math mammoth?

[Jackie]

Prodigy Math? It's an online game (or app) that offers the standard sort of problems and therefore gives the procedural practice, but it's not dry.

 

We do use Kumon. For my particular kid, she usually only needs 1/4-1/2 of the problems in each workbook to hit a good level of fluency when paired with BA. It therefore ends up being reasonably painless because it's fast, and because I can adjust how many problems I assign.

[rainbowmama]

We use Khan for topics that need a little extra practice

[Crimson Wife]

Normally I would suggest CLE but that's obviously not secular. Maybe if you search the forum for "secular alternative to CLE" you'll find some good suggestions.

[Seeking Squirrels]

Prodigy Math? It's an online game (or app) that offers the standard sort of problems and therefore gives the procedural practice, but it's not dry.

 

We do use Kumon. For my particular kid, she usually only needs 1/4-1/2 of the problems in each workbook to hit a good level of fluency when paired with BA. It therefore ends up being reasonably painless because it's fast, and because I can adjust how many problems I assign.

 

It looks like there's 5 books for 4th, which of them do you use? 

[Jackie]

It looks like there's 5 books for 4th, which of them do you use?

Division, multiplication, decimals/fractions - they cover the "do this over and over until it feels easy" that I want.

 

Word problems - I don't use because I thumbed through it and they want a kid to extract super basic information. If a kid can do the word problems in BA, this will be far too simplistic. If a kid is majorly struggling with word problems at this super basic level, I might argue BA isn't the right fit.

 

Geometry/measurement - meh. We did use it last year, and it introduced a couple things she didn't know, mostly regarding conversions such as 8 oz=1 cup and 16oz=1 lb, but with so little context that she could do the arithmetic and still not measure a damn thing on a scale. If BA or AOPS doesn't cover this sufficiently, I'll save it for a "unit study" and buy a unit study from somewhere or focus on it myself.

[SoCal_Bear]

Maybe just the Singapore Intensive Practice and maybe Challenging Word Problems since you don't need instruction. I'm not completely clear why you don't want conceptual when it seems like that's what your daughter seems to like. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by calbear

[deerforest]

We used BA as our primary elementary math program, and I supplemented with dozens of things. But, it was never a full set of anything. I'd pull out Key to... booklets for extra practice, Education Unboxed videos, or books like Zaccaro, Danica McKellar, or manipulatives, or board games, etc. I even used a few Singapore and MM lessons here and there. But, it was only if she needed some extra practice. I'd personally just wait and see what you need when you need it rather than add on a single supplementary program.

[sweetpea3829]

Definitely Prodigy as a fun review.

 

But also, Singapore's Process Skills in Problem Solving alongside their Challenging Word Problems.  

[Sarah0000]

There's also lots of free printable worksheets, color by number, board games, etc from the web.

[Seeking Squirrels]

Thank you all for the suggestions! I'm considering all of them :) 

 

 

Maybe just the Singapore Intensive Practice and maybe Challenging Word Problems since you don't need instruction. I'm not completely clear why you don't want conceptual when it seems like that's what your daughter seems to like. 

I do want conceptual for our main program, I'm just following SWB's advice that if you use a highly conceptual program, that you add in some drill/procedure work. 

[Pegs]

We also do prodigy for fun review, and for the days when we are just not after something challenging.

[rebbyribs]

XtraMath.org if her multiplication facts aren't solid yet. It's not fun (at least for my kids), but it is quick daily practice that helps them get from understanding multiplication to knowing the facts automatically.

[Jackie]

Thank you all for the suggestions! I'm considering all of them :)

 

 

I do want conceptual for our main program, I'm just following SWB's advice that if you use a highly conceptual program, that you add in some drill/procedure work.

So, I don't know how to phrase this well. I have a weird kid. She doesn't fit any box I've ever found. I *love* the philosophy of WTM in many ways, but you have to bend and mold it to fit you and your child. There is almost nothing in grammar stage that fits my kid. I swear she was born somewhere between logic and rhetoric and will stay there for a very, very long time.

 

If your kid needs drill/procedure work, then do it. But do it because your kid will benefit, not because that's the advice for grammar stage.

[Seeking Squirrels]

XtraMath.org if her multiplication facts aren't solid yet. It's not fun (at least for my kids), but it is quick daily practice that helps them get from understanding multiplication to knowing the facts automatically.

I had her do xtramath for a while when we were solidifying addition/subtraction facts. She hated it. I mentioned adding it to our schedule and she begged me not to. 

 

So, I don't know how to phrase this well. I have a weird kid. She doesn't fit any box I've ever found. I *love* the philosophy of WTM in many ways, but you have to bend and mold it to fit you and your child. There is almost nothing in grammar stage that fits my kid. I swear she was born somewhere between logic and rhetoric and will stay there for a very, very long time.

 

If your kid needs drill/procedure work, then do it. But do it because your kid will benefit, not because that's the advice for grammar stage.

 

This is good to keep in mind, thank you. She really hates repetition. And she hates having to do anything that she feels she already knows. So I do have to be careful here so I don't make it too frustrating for her and turn her off from it altogether. I mostly want to make sure she's "getting it" with BA.

 

I also want her to have some work that she can do independently because we're trying to build independence and initiative. I'm working on putting together a weekly folder of work that she can do on her own that she will be responsible for doing throughout the week when I'm working with her little sister, or even sometimes in the car when we're going to activities. I don't want it to just be busy work, though. So I'm looking for things that will be beneficial but also not going to set us back if pages get missed here and there or it takes us longer than planned to finish. 

[mamamoose]

Math Mammoth has stand alone subject work texts that teach to the student. We use it alongside BA.

[reign]

We use math mammoth when they need more practice. We do not use the whole curriculum. They work on the types of problems they need extra practice with.

[fralala]

I had her do xtramath for a while when we were solidifying addition/subtraction facts. She hated it. I mentioned adding it to our schedule and she begged me not to. 

 

 

This is good to keep in mind, thank you. She really hates repetition. And she hates having to do anything that she feels she already knows. So I do have to be careful here so I don't make it too frustrating for her and turn her off from it altogether. I mostly want to make sure she's "getting it" with BA.

 

I also want her to have some work that she can do independently because we're trying to build independence and initiative. I'm working on putting together a weekly folder of work that she can do on her own that she will be responsible for doing throughout the week when I'm working with her little sister, or even sometimes in the car when we're going to activities. I don't want it to just be busy work, though. So I'm looking for things that will be beneficial but also not going to set us back if pages get missed here and there or it takes us longer than planned to finish. 

 

OK, this sounds a little like my daughter who does BA. I am not sure if this would work for you, but I have to find ways to challenge my daughter that also involve practicing the skills she needs to learn. So for instance, if I wanted her to practice multiplying x 4, she would balk at a page of 4 x 2 4x3 4x4 and so forth and call it stupid (a word I hate and she relishes), but if I presented her with a problem like 439,725 x 4, she would delight in solving it and ask for more. Or even if I just changed it up to be 400 x 20, 4 x 5,000 and so forth, she'd find it more palatable.

 

We also do use Intensive Practice (Singapore) and it will definitely help practice procedures but the problems aren't always interesting or challenging. But maybe she will be more likely to do the extra practice if, as part of your steps toward her independence, you give her a few workbook options, show her the online samples, and let her choose what she wants her supplemental math book to be? Sometimes very small things, like the illustrations or format, can make a book appeal to my kids in a way I wouldn't have guessed. (I am thinking here of the child who detested handwriting until I changed workbooks and now she begs to do it even on the weekend.) Good luck!

[Seeking Squirrels]

OK, this sounds a little like my daughter who does BA. I am not sure if this would work for you, but I have to find ways to challenge my daughter that also involve practicing the skills she needs to learn. So for instance, if I wanted her to practice multiplying x 4, she would balk at a page of 4 x 2 4x3 4x4 and so forth and call it stupid (a word I hate and she relishes), but if I presented her with a problem like 439,725 x 4, she would delight in solving it and ask for more. Or even if I just changed it up to be 400 x 20, 4 x 5,000 and so forth, she'd find it more palatable.

 

We also do use Intensive Practice (Singapore) and it will definitely help practice procedures but the problems aren't always interesting or challenging. But maybe she will be more likely to do the extra practice if, as part of your steps toward her independence, you give her a few workbook options, show her the online samples, and let her choose what she wants her supplemental math book to be? Sometimes very small things, like the illustrations or format, can make a book appeal to my kids in a way I wouldn't have guessed. (I am thinking here of the child who detested handwriting until I changed workbooks and now she begs to do it even on the weekend.) Good luck!

I'll have to try those tricks for sneaking skills in. This is where we are soo different. I see the Kumon pages as wonderful practice pages to really nail down the algorithms. I would have loved it as a child. She would look at it and say "seriously?" 

 

Surprisingly she has done some simple review math pages the last three days. It's a super cheap book from the target dollar section. I pulled it out mostly as a practice run for myself and her with putting together a weekly folder. To see how much was reasonable to put in there and how she did doing it herself plus sneak in some extra practice while we're at it. (We're kind of in a curriculum limbo right now as I just pulled her from PS but we're not ready to start new stuff yet. I just want to keep her working and thinking) She likes it. :/ But most of the pages are "games" or riddles. So solve the problem and put a letter in a box or whatever. So she'll do review and repetition if there's something more to do! It makes something simple take longer, but it's much quicker than a meltdown so I think I'll take it!