Any other UUs on this board gobsmacked by this week's events?

[poppy]

I remember there are a few UUs here.

 

The President of the UUA (overarching national organization) has resigned because of a controversy over White Supremacy in UU  higher level hiring. 

This weekend many churches are having a teach-in about White Supremacy.
Apparently "white supremacy" is a synonym for systematic racism.

 

I moved a few months ago and I haven't found a new church.  And now I'm not sure if I want to go back.  It's not that I'm unsympathetic, but, it just seems like so much navel gazing.

T

 

 

[Bluegoat]

Wow, I'm not UU, but this really surprises me.  All the UU congregations I've seen were very white, but the aren't the first people I'd think of in relation to white supremacy.

[Jenny in Florida]

I'm a lapsed UU. After almost 20 years and membership in three congregations in as many states, I left our local church a few years ago for a combination of personal and philosophical reasons.

 

I hadn't been following the story, but I'm only mildly surprised, actually. I had long been frustrated by the fact that UUs seemed to talk a good game but still too often default to middle-aged-straight-white guys as leaders. 

[Crimson Wife]

I'm a lapsed UU. After almost 20 years and membership in three congregations in as many states, I left our local church a few years ago for a combination of personal and philosophical reasons.

 

I hadn't been following the story, but I'm only mildly surprised, actually. I had long been frustrated by the fact that UUs seemed to talk a good game but still too often default to middle-aged-straight-white guys as leaders.

The UU church in my hometown has not had a minister other than a lesbian in over 2 decades. 100% non-Hispanic white, however

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[catz]

Our congregation has done a decent job with diversity and reaching out to partner with churches that draw more families of color IMO.  They all vary so much.  Years ago a minister did leave in a situation that was somewhat unethical but that was now like 20 years ago.  Humans fail.  Sometimes spectacularly.   I'm disappointed for sure, but I hope it's an opportunity for some self reflection and time to clean house.   I am grateful that people are empowered to speak up and out about it.   I am interested to see what steps our own congregation will take.   I just noticed they are having a forum about building community with people of color coming up.  Our congregation is centered in an urban and diverse area, so I think this is always in the forefront for us.   I will certainly be more aware and more willing to be vocal if I see injustices.   I see lots of people outraged and ready for action.

[Lady Florida.]

Wow. I'm not UU but I have a friend who's a UU minister. I haven't seen her talking about it on social media, at least not yet.

[KarenNC]

I've seen mention but haven't had a chance to delve into it yet for more details. 

 

[poppy]

This new provocative definition of white supremacy is-- I get it, I understand the idea behind it, but ....bleh. 

I just can't make myself passionate about regional / national hiring issues.

Or the 50,000 open letters from ministers about structural racism in UU. It is so much self-flagellation. I know several ministers.  They are the type to be so excited by this opportunity for intersectionality dialogue. 
Meanwhile just about single person at my local UU church is white. It is whiter than the town, but not by much.  Lapsed Catholics, gay couples, culturally Jewish families,  a smattering of New England atheist hippie types. My desire to sit around with these people and talk about 'white supremacy' is so low.
Maybe I'll go back when the drama is past.

I don't know.

[QueenCat]

UU here. Haven't heard about this. Do you have a link to some info on it? Our congregation is very involved in BLM and other race based social justice issues so this would be rather surprising if it turns out that top level UU's support white supremacy. Completely contradictory to our values.

[poppy]

There is a lot of churn but basically :

A Latina candidate was not hired for a regional leadership position. 

 

Her response to not getting hired: https://uuchristinarivera.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/on-being-a-good-fit-for-the-uua/

 

Pres. Morales response: http://www.uuworld.org/sites/live-new.uuworld.org/files/morales_staff_diversity_controversy_20170327.pdf

 

Uproad & upset at what he wrote led to his resignation.

And some other context about rescheduled programs at the General Assembly as registered by Black Lives of UU [not trying to minimize, I just don't have a lot of background on this part]

 

Result, many "open letters" from ministers such as this one: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B1kwa-dPZG4-d6wugBJHRPa_Y3ZjtQSuLYClx6gV1Kg/edit

 

Black Lives of UU is doing a "Teach In on Racism and White Supremacy" this weekend and many, many congregations are taking part http://www.blacklivesuu.com/uuwhitesupremacyteachin

 

I think that sums it up, but again, I'm not in the center.  Communications have been confusing and everyone is scrambling, it seems.

 

 

[QueenCat]

There is a lot of churn but basically :

 

A Latina candidate was not hired for a regional leadership position. 

 

Her response to not getting hired: https://uuchristinarivera.wordpress.com/2017/03/27/on-being-a-good-fit-for-the-uua/

 

Pres. Morales response: http://www.uuworld.org/sites/live-new.uuworld.org/files/morales_staff_diversity_controversy_20170327.pdf

 

Uproad & upset at what he wrote led to his resignation.

And some other context about rescheduled programs at the General Assembly as registered by Black Lives of UU [not trying to minimize, I just don't have a lot of background on this part]

 

Result, many "open letters" from ministers such as this one: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B1kwa-dPZG4-d6wugBJHRPa_Y3ZjtQSuLYClx6gV1Kg/edit

 

Black Lives of UU is doing a "Teach In on Racism and White Supremacy" this weekend and many, many congregations are taking part http://www.blacklivesuu.com/uuwhitesupremacyteachin

 

I think that sums it up, but again, I'm not in the center.  Communications have been confusing and everyone is scrambling, it seems.

 

Thanks for the links. I personally think the use of the the candidate's use of the term "white supremacy" implies connections to groups like the klan, which is absurd. There are certainly issues, which I knew, but it's not what she's making it out to be. We do need more diversity in the hierarchy, for sure.......... I haven't seen any posted changes to our congregation's message during the service this week, or any other related activities and we are very involved in BLM.

[73349]

I found out about it on Twitter.

 

My congregation's minister is departing this spring and we are having huge budget issues, so I particularly dislike seeing issues with the UUA at the same time.

 

I agree that we need to use effect rather than intent as a marker for institutional racism, but the guy had 3 months left in his 8-year term, and at this point I'd have preferred to just wait & hand it off to  the new president (who will be a white woman, because that's who all 3 candidates are) to deal with.

[73349]

Oh, crud. My assistant minister also posted that a UU minister has been arrested on child porn charges. :/ In Oklahoma, apparently. (News articles don't mention UU, though, and the institutions he was affiliated with don't look UU, so maybe he was called to a UU congregation in the past?)

 

Update: It was this guy: https://www.uua.org/directory/people/ron-robinson , head of the UU Christian Fellowship. Ugh.

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by whitehawk

[redsquirrel]

 UU since I was a teenager and I haven't heard a word about it.  I'll keep my ears open tomorrow.

[Crimson Wife]

So this woman who is not an ordained minister thinks she should have been hired over a more qualified candidate simply because she is a Latina? That attitude is racist. If she wants the promotion, she should attend seminary and become a minister like the guy they hired over her.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[73349]

So this woman who is not an ordained minister thinks she should have been hired over a more qualified candidate simply because she is a Latina? That attitude is racist. If she wants the promotion, she should attend seminary and become a minister like the guy they hired over her.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

This is not specifically about Ms. Rivera (who was not the one to call for Rev. Morales' resignation), but about a pattern, and I don't believe that being a minister is a requirement for the job that led to the uproar.

 

Then again, it's also an ongoing issue in the denomination that ministers are drawn disproportionately from privileged backgrounds, possibly because, if I'm doing the math right, it costs $70-90k to complete the degree at any of the three schools that do a MDiv for UUs.

[LucyStoner]

it just seems like so much navel gazing.

 

 

And you have just summarized exactly why we never joined a UUA congregation after visiting.  

[poppy]

This is not specifically about Ms. Rivera (who was not the one to call for Rev. Morales' resignation), but about a pattern, and I don't believe that being a minister is a requirement for the job that led to the uproar.

 

Then again, it's also an ongoing issue in the denomination that ministers are drawn disproportionately from privileged backgrounds, possibly because, if I'm doing the math right, it costs $70-90k to complete the degree at any of the three schools that do a MDiv for UUs.

 

I don't know what a "regional lead" does or what it requires, but in general I agree with this.  But I also rolled my eyes hard at some parts of her letter, like "I know the individual who has been hired and I bear him no ill will. I recognize that it is his unearned white male privilege that made him the “right fit†over me. I hope he recognizes it too."  and ". I have been injured. My family has been injured. This also includes financial injury to our family. Our faith has been tested. I have had to sit my sons down, fierce warriors of Unitarian Universalism who love their faith deeply, and explain the realities of racially discriminatory hiring."     I honestly can't imagine myself writing a letter like this in response to making it to the final round of interviews but not getting a job.  I can see it could be a useful dialogue at the national level, but from my POV........ bleh.

[Farrar]

It's been all over my social media this week for sure.

 

As I understand it, the woman who didn't get the job and the man who got it were both very qualified on paper but with different qualifications and strengths - not obviously better or worse for the position. And they went with his.

 

I think it's not navel gazing. It's an important discussion. Honestly, I think if UU's - a bunch of very liberal, obviously trying people - can't get their sh** together on race, there's really no hope for the nation at large. :(

[Guest]

Thank you for the summary links, Poppy :)

[Farrar]

I would *love* for this to get covered by some actual journalists, by the way. I've been frustrated by the way that everything is just so and so's letter, other so and so's blog post, etc. The pedophile scandal was covered. But just the whole week. It was crazy. I think the UU world in general would benefit from a neutral look.

[QueenCat]

It's been all over my social media this week for sure.

 

As I understand it, the woman who didn't get the job and the man who got it were both very qualified on paper but with different qualifications and strengths - not obviously better or worse for the position. And they went with his.

 

I think it's not navel gazing. It's an important discussion. Honestly, I think if UU's - a bunch of very liberal, obviously trying people - can't get their sh** together on race, there's really no hope for the nation at large. :(

 

The UU's in our area (four congregations within about 60 miles of each other) are working very hard on tackling racism in our country. I'm surprised to hear it's such an issue within. Our congregation, of about 100 families, is about 10% African American, 5% Hispanic, so about 85% Caucasian. However, there are also plenty of biracial people, that I've probably lumped in the wrong category. Religious background is interesting. We have around 10 families where one of the spouses is Jewish. 5-6 families where one partner is Muslim (mostly male but one female, but she is the daughter of one of the older Muslim men). A large number came from various Christian backgrounds. Some who have none of the above. Few grew up with no religion but several eventually became agnostic, atheist or something else. Lots of Buddhist leanings. Lots of thoughts but can't get them all down without writing a novel.

[mellifera33]

Our minister talked about both scandals during the service today. I don't know enough about the cases to comment about the content, but I have to say that I appreciate that both issues are out in the open and not hidden away and made into gossip fodder, which seems to be the pattern at religious organizations I've been involved with in the past. 

[Farrar]

The UU's in our area (four congregations within about 60 miles of each other) are working very hard on tackling racism in our country. I'm surprised to hear it's such an issue within. Our congregation, of about 100 families, is about 10% African American, 5% Hispanic, so about 85% Caucasian. However, there are also plenty of biracial people, that I've probably lumped in the wrong category. Religious background is interesting. We have around 10 families where one of the spouses is Jewish. 5-6 families where one partner is Muslim (mostly male but one female, but she is the daughter of one of the older Muslim men). A large number came from various Christian backgrounds. Some who have none of the above. Few grew up with no religion but several eventually became agnostic, atheist or something else. Lots of Buddhist leanings. Lots of thoughts but can't get them all down without writing a novel.

 

The UU's groups I've been involved with in the past (I'm not currently attending a UU church) were also really committed to social justice and tackling issues around race. And I was lucky to be part of a UU church for awhile that was very racially diverse. However, my in-laws' congregation is way more typical - nearly all white. I think the problems here are arising because you've got a bunch of "good, white liberals" who simply don't have a lot of experience navigating these waters. Fil attended a major UU national meeting as part of his church's board and there was a thing about increasing diversity... but all the churches sitting around talking about it were overwhelmingly majority white. Most of the people talking were white. There's intentions and there's realities.

[QueenCat]

The UU's groups I've been involved with in the past (I'm not currently attending a UU church) were also really committed to social justice and tackling issues around race. And I was lucky to be part of a UU church for awhile that was very racially diverse. However, my in-laws' congregation is way more typical - nearly all white. I think the problems here are arising because you've got a bunch of "good, white liberals" who simply don't have a lot of experience navigating these waters. Fil attended a major UU national meeting as part of his church's board and there was a thing about increasing diversity... but all the churches sitting around talking about it were overwhelmingly majority white. Most of the people talking were white. There's intentions and there's realities.

 

I do get that........... but at least many are working towards improving things, when many others are not. Conversations are just the start, though

[Farrar]

I do get that........... but at least many are working towards improving things, when many others are not. Conversations are just the start, though

 

Honestly, I think my biggest frustrations lately are in my liberal circles when people still can't get it together. Like, UU's doing a crummy job battling racism, feminists justifying transphobia. None of this stuff will ever be perfect, it's always going to be an ongoing battle, and I'm glad that so many churches did the teach in, but it's still really frustrating.

[Jenny in Florida]

Honestly, I think my biggest frustrations lately are in my liberal circles when people still can't get it together. Like, UU's doing a crummy job battling racism, feminists justifying transphobia. None of this stuff will ever be perfect, it's always going to be an ongoing battle, and I'm glad that so many churches did the teach in, but it's still really frustrating.

 

I hear you. 

 

I think "white supremacy" is a hyperbolic way to describe the situation. My sense is that it's not like members of the UUA are on an intentional crusade to exclude anyone. As I said in an earlier post, I think it's more about kind of settling too easily and too often for the status quo.

 

And it's not like this is a new thing in UU congregations. I'm old enough to remember when the "Undoing Racism" project got underway in the late 1980s. I know these are big issues, and I do believe progress is being made; however, it is frustrating that we're still having to work at it so hard.

[QueenCat]

I hear you. 

 

I think "white supremacy" is a hyperbolic way to describe the situation. My sense is that it's not like members of the UUA are on an intentional crusade to exclude anyone. As I said in an earlier post, I think it's more about kind of settling too easily and too often for the status quo.

 

And it's not like this is a new thing in UU congregations. I'm old enough to remember when the "Undoing Racism" project got underway in the late 1980s. I know these are big issues, and I do believe progress is being made; however, it is frustrating that we're still having to work at it so hard.

 

I find the use of the word "white supremacy" insulting when used for this particular issue, with this particular group of people. I don't mean you insulted, I mean whoever started the usage of it in relation to what is happening with the UUA. It will look to outsiders like our leadership is consorting with the KKK. It's not and it should not be implied. We all have to do better but we shouldn't be compared to white supremacy.

[poppy]

The mainstream UU seems to have adopted White Supremacy as the term to describe the hiring practices controversy..  In a "if you're not part of the solution, you ARE the problem" sense.  I get that using deliberately unsettling terminology to force the conversation is an effective tactic.    I do. But i..... bleh.  I have a very "not my circus, not my monkeys" outlook.  UU churches are rather loosely affiliated, what happens at national is not something I've ever seen , or have any control over , or has any impact on my life.  Except they do pick some dreadful music for the hymnals.  But we don't have to use that music so it really doesn't matter anyway.  I am not saying I'll never go back, but I"m keep distant.  If there is some wonderful racial paradigm shift while I'm gone, that is great.

[Bluegoat]

There seems to be a fine line to me between avoiding barriers to people of differing races in a congregation (of any kind) and trying specifically to appeal to those people.

 

I would feel very odd about people from a religious organization trying to appeal to me specifically because of my ethnicity.  Like, I was supposed to be doing them some kind of favour.

[poppy]

I think the issue here isn't attracting a more diverse audience-- I mean, every UU church would absolutely welcome anyone walking through the door, but you can't make anyone chose a church. And the appeal of non-Christian churches is limited, honestly.  I think the question here is justice among people who are part of the church.  There are hurting people.  I don't want my lack of sympathy for the lady who didn't get hired to cloud that.

[QueenCat]

I think the issue here isn't attracting a more diverse audience-- I mean, every UU church would absolutely welcome anyone walking through the door, but you can't make anyone chose a church. And the appeal of non-Christian churches is limited, honestly.  I think the question here is justice among people who are part of the church.  There are hurting people.  I don't want my lack of sympathy for the lady who didn't get hired to cloud that.

 

I guess I'm having a hard time following what you're saying. I don't see this at all on the local level. Perhaps I just don't know enough about what goes on above. I wouldn't really call it non-Christian. It's inclusive of all religious beliefs, including Christian. Our congregation has people of many religious backgrounds, including Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim. And then of course, agnostic, atheist and a variety of other belief systems.

[poppy]

I guess I'm having a hard time following what you're saying. I don't see this at all on the local level. Perhaps I just don't know enough about what goes on above. I wouldn't really call it non-Christian. It's inclusive of all religious beliefs, including Christian. Our congregation has people of many religious backgrounds, including Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim. And then of course, agnostic, atheist and a variety of other belief systems.

 

I don't see it at the local level at all, too. It's all about  UUA politics.  

UU is not anti-Christian at all, and some members are Christian, and Jesus shows up in a lot of talks and readings, but, I personally would not call UU a Christian church (as in, having services  about the divinity of Jesus.)

[QueenCat]

I don't see it at the local level at all, too. It's all about  UUA politics.  

UU is not anti-Christian at all, and some members are Christian, and Jesus shows up in a lot of talks and readings, but, I personally would not call UU a Christian church (as in, having services  about the divinity of Jesus.)

 

Hard to explain in writing sometimes... I know what you mean. I just don't want people who don't know about UU to think Christians aren't welcome.

[rainbowmama]

I actually applaud such introspection about hiring practices. Unfortunately, I've been active in two UU congregations. I still attend the open Pagan sabbats at one, though not Sunday services. Judging by past involvement, those two churches will probably focus on such an organizational fiasco for months. I want my religious organization to promote social justice and racial equality, but I don't want my Sunday service to feel like a board meeting with singing, which is why I don't attend Sunday services. 

[Farrar]

Like I said, we're not attending a church right now, but...

 

I think if the UU's want to be a church that is centered around social justice issues - which is a large portion of the congregations and members - then to do that, they do have to be welcoming to POC's. I think that has to be part of the mission. Because an organization that is striving to represent diversity needs to actually be diverse. And it can be a religious mission to create a space where people from different cultures come together around a central core of beliefs - one that different sorts of people can share. And that being welcoming means doing outreach and hiring people who reflect the congregations that they want to have, not the congregations they used to have. Part of the objections being raised are that the diversity of congregations is actually increasing but the leadership isn't - not at the same pace. And just practically speaking, I think there are a lot of people across all races who are dissatisfied with traditional religion and the UU's represent a different path but with a strong community church structure that many people still want. That's not just something liberal white people want.

 

I grew up - not UU - but part of a very social justice seeking church - and one of the best experiences I ever had growing up there was being part of small groups brought together specifically to be multi-generational and racially diverse. Groups like that are so rare in American social life. I don't think it's wrong for UU's to seek to create those type of spaces, including by reaching out and appealing to POC's to make that happen.

 

I'm also all for using terms that make us white people uncomfortable. That's kind of the point. When we aren't uncomfortable - and the world doesn't make us uncomfortable by nature, it makes POC's uncomfortable all the time - then we put on blinders and refuse to see the problem.

[QueenCat]

Like I said, we're not attending a church right now, but...

 

I think if the UU's want to be a church that is centered around social justice issues - which is a large portion of the congregations and members - then to do that, they do have to be welcoming to POC's. I think that has to be part of the mission. Because an organization that is striving to represent diversity needs to actually be diverse. And it can be a religious mission to create a space where people from different cultures come together around a central core of beliefs - one that different sorts of people can share. And that being welcoming means doing outreach and hiring people who reflect the congregations that they want to have, not the congregations they used to have. Part of the objections being raised are that the diversity of congregations is actually increasing but the leadership isn't - not at the same pace. And just practically speaking, I think there are a lot of people across all races who are dissatisfied with traditional religion and the UU's represent a different path but with a strong community church structure that many people still want. That's not just something liberal white people want.

 

I grew up - not UU - but part of a very social justice seeking church - and one of the best experiences I ever had growing up there was being part of small groups brought together specifically to be multi-generational and racially diverse. Groups like that are so rare in American social life. I don't think it's wrong for UU's to seek to create those type of spaces, including by reaching out and appealing to POC's to make that happen.

 

I'm also all for using terms that make us white people uncomfortable. That's kind of the point. When we aren't uncomfortable - and the world doesn't make us uncomfortable by nature, it makes POC's uncomfortable all the time - then we put on blinders and refuse to see the problem.

 

For the most part, I would agree with you. I don't mind uncomfortable language. I just don't think "white supremacy" is an accurate way of putting it AND that such a term makes it look like something than it's not.

[73349]

For the most part, I would agree with you. I don't mind uncomfortable language. I just don't think "white supremacy" is an accurate way of putting it AND that such a term makes it look like something than it's not.

 

White supremacy is being used here to mean white hegemony: running things so that white people get the money and power, and continue to come out on top. Trey Lyon has commented (not re: the UUA), "This is not to say White Supremacy is not a plague on humanity, but it is a term that too many white folks feel they can distance themselves from. White Supremacy is the philosophy, but White Hegemony is the system. Help educate your white brothers and sisters by introducing the concept of White Hegemony."

 

Sometimes white supremacy is enforced through violence and deliberate intimidation (like the KKK), and it's part of an overt ideology (like white nationalist groups), but usually--I would say mostly, nowadays--it's more insidious, more accurately called hegemony.

 

It's business as usual.

 

It's when an institution may have very intentionally have dropped racist policies and be "colorblind" in hiring/admissions/etc., which sounds much more up to date... but in fact those running things are still looking for, preferring and choosing people who are "like us" and "a good fit" and with whom we "feel comfortable right away." When keeping the white people who are in charge of the institution comfortable is more central to decision-making than increasing diversity, perpetuating white hegemony is the result, even if it wasn't the intent.

 

I'm not at all sure that it's better if management looks 95+% white because of thoughtless white hegemony rather than ideological white supremacy. The bottom line is, when we're not deliberately anti-racist in an organization that's already mostly white, we get the same result as if we were deliberately racist.

 

Yes, I want the UUA to hold itself to a high standard on racial issues. I don't think it's navel-gazing to hold up our principles (like #2!) and use them as yardsticks to measure our outcomes. And I think it's kind of demeaning to UUs of color that we as a denomination have to talk about whether it's worth talking about.

 

Now, does this sometimes look ridiculous in practice? Well, as ridiculous as any other conversation among a large group of UUs, yes. My own congregation discussed something for 75 minutes recently before coming to a vote that was 90% in favor. People who will beat a point to death and then hold a solemn public funeral are among those drawn to UUism, evidently--that's the footnote to the 5th principle. But if that's what needs to be done to be honest about who we are, what we want and whether we're doing what we say we want to do, I'm willing to put up with it.

 

This is particularly a concern of mine because I live in a city that's diverse and attend a fellowship that does not reflect that.

[QueenCat]

White supremacy is being used here to mean white hegemony: running things so that white people get the money and power, and continue to come out on top. Trey Lyon has commented (not re: the UUA), "This is not to say White Supremacy is not a plague on humanity, but it is a term that too many white folks feel they can distance themselves from. White Supremacy is the philosophy, but White Hegemony is the system. Help educate your white brothers and sisters by introducing the concept of White Hegemony."

 

Sometimes white supremacy is enforced through violence and deliberate intimidation (like the KKK), and it's part of an overt ideology (like white nationalist groups), but usually--I would say mostly, nowadays--it's more insidious, more accurately called hegemony.

 

It's business as usual.

 

It's when an institution may have very intentionally have dropped racist policies and be "colorblind" in hiring/admissions/etc., which sounds much more up to date... but in fact those running things are still looking for, preferring and choosing people who are "like us" and "a good fit" and with whom we "feel comfortable right away." When keeping the white people who are in charge of the institution comfortable is more central to decision-making than increasing diversity, perpetuating white hegemony is the result, even if it wasn't the intent.

 

I'm not at all sure that it's better if management looks 95+% white because of thoughtless white hegemony rather than ideological white supremacy. The bottom line is, when we're not deliberately anti-racist in an organization that's already mostly white, we get the same result as if we were deliberately racist.

 

Yes, I want the UUA to hold itself to a high standard on racial issues. I don't think it's navel-gazing to hold up our principles (like #2!) and use them as yardsticks to measure our outcomes. And I think it's kind of demeaning to UUs of color that we as a denomination have to talk about whether it's worth talking about.

 

Now, does this sometimes look ridiculous in practice? Well, as ridiculous as any other conversation among a large group of UUs, yes. My own congregation discussed something for 75 minutes recently before coming to a vote that was 90% in favor. People who will beat a point to death and then hold a solemn public funeral are among those drawn to UUism, evidently--that's the footnote to the 5th principle. But if that's what needs to be done to be honest about who we are, what we want and whether we're doing what we say we want to do, I'm willing to put up with it.

 

This is particularly a concern of mine because I live in a city that's diverse and attend a fellowship that does not reflect that.

 

I do get how it's being used. Still don't agree with using the terminology. I think it will make people who are not involved think that there is something MUCH worse going on than actually is happening. They will think UU is a farce with it's leaders associating with klan type people....... there is better terminology out there. People that are thinking about visiting UU may be scared off, when they don't need to be.

[poppy]

UU management is not  95%+ white.    "Morales said that the percent of staff who are people of color has risen from 14 percent in 2008 (the year before his election as president) to 20 percent today, with a corresponding rise in the number of managers who are people of color from 5 to 9 percent. Meanwhile, he emphasized, “the staff of the UUA is far, far more diverse than the membership of our congregations.† Which is not to say where we are is "good enough". But it's not 95%+.  
 

I think  the hegemony argument is one worth talking about.  But the fact that  UU has decided to identify as White Supremacist is, I think, completely ridiculous.   It has put me off from taking my kid to the church anytime in the foreseeable future.  I think the characterization that people will blah blah blah blah about this for endless hours (while all basically agreeing) is spot on.

 

 

[Farrar]

Well, as ridiculous as any other conversation among a large group of UUs, yes. 

 

:lol: Oh, UU.

[poppy]

Update: Black Lives of UU is calling for an 8th principle to be added:

 

“We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote: journeying toward spiritual wholeness by working to build a diverse multicultural Beloved Community by our actions that accountably dismantle racism and other oppressions in ourselves and our institutions.†'

 

I don't have any objection.

 

Update on the UUA transition: http://www.uua.org/sites/live-new.uua.org/files/interim_pres_plan_04042017.pdf

 

The UUA has indeed decided to identify itself as a White Supremacist organization. My plans to rejoin with my kids,  either this Spring or in the Fall,  are gone.  I do wish all involved the best.

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by poppy