Very strict schedule, but would like to relax and read aloud a lot more!

[bfw0729]

I posted this in the K-8 forum, but feel there may be more people here able to respond because of the ages of your children and likely some are currently in college (or graduated).

 

I would like to gain the advice of parents who schooled their children in a relaxed environment and STILL their children did well in college. 

 

I do incorporate a more Charlotte Mason approach, but tend to make sure the kids finish all that's needed for the day. I am a box checker and have certain goals in mind for my children; both daily and long term goals. I come from the perspective that my children will benefit greatly from the time/effort I put into them during the early years. I have high expectations for my kids - I finished a doctorate degree and was mostly a straight A student and I find myself wanting my children to have as many opportunities as possible. If they are given lots of doors of opportunities and decide to become an illustrator, then I'm ok with that. My kids are very typical kids. My husband and I are very typical learners as well. 

 

The reason for my post is our days have turned into monotonous, predictable days. I have become a crazy box checker and our days are about 6 hours longs, not including breaks, etc... I have two fourth graders and a third grader. I also have a preschooler and baby. Math is very important to us - I guess I consider us a mathy family. My husband and I were math majors. Anyway, I expect all of our children to go to college and for them to take at a minimum precalculus in high school. They all are in Singapore Math and are doing fairly well. Math takes about an hour a day. I would like to outline our current day below. 

 

Currently

Singapore Math - 1 hour ( five days a week) - although try to use one of those days using Life of Fred

R&S English - 45 min (four days a week)

Writing With Ease - 15-30 min (four days a week)

MFW Science, Geography, and Bible - 2 hours (four days a week)

R&S Spelling - 15 min (five days a week)

Cursive - 10 min (three days a week)

Journal Writing - 15 min (twice a week)

Math Drill - 10 min (twice a week)

Reading Aloud - 45 min (five days a week)

Silent Reading - 30 min (five days a week)

 

Here's the type of day I would LOVE to have for two of the ten months in a school year....

 

Read aloud to my children great literature covering English, History, and Science - 2 hours (daily)

Journal Writing on anything they want on a daily basis 

Singapore Math - 1 hour (five days a week with Life of Fred sprinkled in there)

Silent Reading - 30 min (daily)

 

That's it!!! No spelling, no English, no cursive, no math drill. No MFW Science, History, Bible. I spoke with a mother recently whose approach resembles the latter option. She reads aloud to them (or uses audible), the children write in their journals daily, and they work on math daily. That's it! I asked her if she's concerned about not covering certain aspects of academia like the Language Arts. She said she wasn't concerned and that reading aloud to children 2 to 3 hours a day covers the essentials and that it's enough. She said the children learn a great deal in this lower-stress, open environment and they do very well in college. 

 

I'm looking for advice from parents who have been there done that. Have you schooled from a more relaxed state, reading aloud to your kids several hours a day and later those children became excellent college students? I am so interested in trying this approach, but I'm afraid of letting go of all the boxed thinking.  

[learners4life]

Just a few comments:

 

We used Singapore Math during the mid to late elementary years.  I really liked it, and thought the different approach to math was a very good addition to our math program.  However, I used it as a supplement along with a very traditional math program, Sadlier Math.  I know you were a math major, and Singapore has very likely changed over the years (I know they used to offer several programs), but I didn't think it was enough on it's own.

 

Love that you use Rod and Staff!  Hands down the very best English Grammar book ever written.  Seriously.  Just a heads up, though - it is not all that great for writing in the junior high years - you'll need to do something else then. We used it from first through eighth grade, and really only used the grammar portion for review in eighth.  You will never regret using Rod and Staff.  My daughter scored a 790 and an 800 on Critical Reading section of the SAT test the two times she took it.  I give Rod and Staff credit for a lot of that.

 

Reading, reading, reading is so wonderful. We took a mixture of a Charlotte Mason approach along with Classical Education in elementary school.  I would ditch the formal spelling if your kids are already decent spellers.  IMO, it is a waste of time.  If you are reading good quality literature, they do not need it. Your combination of silent reading and reading out loud is a good way to go :)

 

Charlotte Mason emphasized nature study.  I am not familiar with MFW Science, so I cannot comment on it.  But, my experience was that most boxed science programs were boring and lacked depth. (And I purchased a lot of the boxed sets in early to mid elementary years, out of paranoia that I wasn't doing "enough" science.  What I found was that we were light years ahead of grade level not doing the boxed sets.) However, MFW may make for a good "pick and chose" spine.  At any rate, taking any of the natural science areas, and running with them for as far and as long as your kids want to can be an excellent way to learn in the elementary years. 

 

As far as the other mother's approach of only reading, journaling, and math - I think she is making a mistake.  She is not giving her children the opportunity, and the advantage, of accomplishment.  There is satisfaction in doing the work of learning, and the day she is outlining sounds like it is seriously lacking. It may sound like a cozy little school day, but her kids will be unprepared for higher learning.  My opinion again.

 

Edited to add: Our school days were also fully 6 hours long in elementary school.  I never could understand how anybody could get everything done in a 3 or 4 hour school day. Also want to say, I really don't see a problem with doing your "dream day" for a couple of months at the end of the school year, as you will already have gotten in 8 months of school for the year. Maybe increase the silent reading time.

Edited March 8, 2017 by learners4life

[2_girls_mommy]

Part of the flexibility of hsing allows you to make changes when you need to. We have plenty of days like described sprinkled throughout our year, but we don't do that (the totally relaxed) all of the time. 

 

What you have described sounds like our school lite- what we do on summer vacations, Christmas vacations, spring or fall breaks when we aren't going anywhere, but need a bit of a break to change things up, or times when someone is sick that we are attending to, after the new baby was born for a month or so, etc.  Times when I don't want to lose momentum on the science/history topics and math or writing skills, but we don't have time for a full schedule because we had a field trip, or are doing a major house project or something this kind of thing keeps us going.  And they are wonderful days. And I consider them full days when we do them and log them as so. But I couldn't do that all of the time.

 

We have almost never finished a complete R&S English, math, or spelling book in a year. Some years I look through what's remaining and decide we covered the bulk, there is nothing new, and we just move on to the next book. Sometimes I think there is new material still to come in this text, so we just pick back up where we were for the next grade taking a year or more on one grade level. I skipped one grade level of R&S English altogether so that my dd could finish up the series. But we keep moving forward. We do the bookwork 3-4 times a week, read alouds 2-3 days a week, co-op day 1 day a week, and field trips 1-3 days a month with some bookwork on those days usually.  But I wouldn't give the texts up. I can't explain and teach in depth grammar off the cuff as I am reading aloud past maybe very early elementary topics.  On busier out of the house days I don't get the read alouds in. One day a week for us is strictly text books until it is time for us to leave for out of the house classes. Another day, our long one at home, has us doing our texts in the morning and lots of reading aloud more relaxed learning in the afternoons. I vary the schedule to get in the elements that I want, but don't leave one out for the other. 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

I responded on the k8 forum.

[birchbark]

If I were to streamline your main schedule, I would do most of your R&S English orally, with the diagramming on a whiteboard. Then if I were doing WWE, I would drop handwriting, spelling, and journal writing (unless the student really struggles with spelling, then I would keep a spelling program). 

 

I think your 2mo schedule sounds lovely. If you are interested in more testimony on a simple 3R approach, join the Robinson Curriculum group on Facebook. (If you are unfamiliar with Robinson, it is a curriculum that involves 2 hrs of math, 2 hrs of reading from a specified list, and a daily paper, very similar to your dream schedule.) There are over 4,000 members on the FB page and it is quite active with discussion. There are sometimes "success stories" shared by those who have sent students to college. There just aren't many on this forum who do Robinson-style schooling.

[daijobu]

Do you read them while they are having lunch?  I've given up on read alouds except at mealtimes.  

[Julie of KY]

I have no problem dropping a bunch of stuff and doing something similar to your second schedule for a period of time. Usually if asked what we are studying in school the answer is whatever historical time period that we are reading about.

 

As my kids have gotten older and take more online or outside courses, it's certianly more difficult to drop everything because I don't control their schedule. We do still drop a lot and schedule afternoon family games days or ultimate frisbee days.  For my high schoolers, the family fun time has become more important than the read-aloud time.

 

For my math geek, I think we hit a wall and take off Jan. from math every year. For my other kids it may be other subjects. It is fine to take some time off from the monotony of drill and school in a different way. 

[Susie in CA]

When my boys were in 3rd and 4th grade we did finish our serious school work by noon. The afternoon was usually open for projects, park days, library, art etc.

 

This is what our general schedule looked like:

 

Math: 1 hour a day

English: 1 hour a day (Spelling Workout, WWE, FLL, Literature read alouds) We did not do everything everyday except literature. I did read aloud @ 30 min every day aloud to them.

History: 1 1/2 twice a week This was fun for us. We read the chapter in SOTW aloud and did lots of projects as well as read additional related books.

Science : 1 1/2 hours twice a week. This was also fun. We did tons of experiments and read related books.

German: 30 min a day

 

Often we watched documentaries related to what we were learning in the evenings. Fridays we essentially took off to go on field trips or do art and music. The boys learned so much during this time. We all miss it.

[coralloyd]

If you truly want to follow CM methods short lessons are a big part of her teaching because they teach the power of attention and fire different parts of the brain. CM suggests 15-20 min. for 1st -3rd grade, and 20-30 min. for 4th-6th grade. I personally think 1 hr. 10 min. for math, at that age, is too long on a daily basis. I know you love it, but if your children are showing any signs of burnout, I would caution you to not kill their love for it with your love for it  ;) . However, if they exhibit your same enthusiasm by all means continue. 

 

I also think R&S English could mostly be done orally with only some of the assignments written out. We used R&S for many years in the past, and 45 min. seems like a long time for it.Here we do Science two times a week and Social Studies two times a week, until middle school. For one of these and Bible it takes us about an hour. To have Writing With Ease, Cursive, and Journal Writing is also over doing it in a CM education. I would drop Journal Writing all together. 

 

I know a lot of people on this forum think that 6 hr. for those ages is fine, but somehow we manage to get all of our subjects done in 4-4.5 hours up until high school. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by coralloyd

[Hilltopmom]

We unschooled my oldest in all subjects till grade 8 for a variety of reasons.

 

Lots of time spent playing with Lego & listening to good audio books, hours of chess & strategy board games and DnD. Time in the woods, video games, historical re enacting as a family hobby, more games & books, a ton of documentaries...

 

He's a bright kid (not gifted, but typical) who is motivated to do really well in his areas of interest.

 

At the high school level, he has done traditional school subjects some from a textbook at home, some online, & some at the CC.

 

He's doing excellent in college classes this year in grade 11. Did fine on SATs. He spends hours each week on his robotics team & his science fair group just won a spot to the Intel science fair.

 

So, I don't think it harmed him not to spend 6 hours a day on book work in elementary or middle school.

 

Some of what you're hoping for (math kids who will get a doctorate, etc) is not up to you, nor what you make them do for school in elementary school- it's going to depend on their interests, abilities, personalities, etc.

 

(Note, speaking gently here- being an illustrator- or other non academic fields- is not an easy profession, nor anything to look down on, it's just different than your field. I'd try hard to lose the "academia is to be worshipped" attitude. You don't know where your kids interests are heading. My next oldest kiddo spends her time on dance & Art, just as difficult as robotics but in a different way)

 

I'd go ahead & spend more time reading aloud & playing games :)

Edited March 13, 2017 by Hilltopmom

[Janice in NJ]

Good Morning.

 

Alternate.  :001_smile:

 

Seriously. Just try it. 

 

Alternate days, weeks, months. What ever you would like. 

 

If you really are anxious about letting go, I would suggest days. Stick to your old routine on MWF. Try your new routine on TTh. Or vice-versa. Yes, your orderly lesson "plans" will be a mess. I get it. The trick here is to see your children and their educational experience as the primary concern. And real education is never really very orderly. We like to find ways to make it seem that way because it suits our desire to control our environments. And don't get me wrong - I was a very organized homeschooler. Very. You could count on ONE hand the number of days we didn't start on time - for sixteen years. :001_smile:  But I speak from experience when I say that lesson plans have a way of looking/feeling organized when they aren't. It's a mirage. Perhaps it's the nature of boxes and charts that makes them seem properly paced/organized etc. In reality, they are usually artificially contrived to seem that way. There is nothing magic or special about them. And in the end, periodically flipping things around is often the best way to educate. 

 

Imagine if you took all of the text of all of your lesson plans and turned it into one big long line of characters with letters and numbers that all had different, random fonts that streamed along with no line breaks with some lines running past the margins and others indented in a hap-hazard way with no rhyme or reason to the thing..... (Whew! Long-winded sentences are exhausting! Get the picture?) Imagine how you would feel about your lesson plans.  :001_smile:  You would see them for what they are - a stream of thoughts about what an education could look like on hour three for day twenty-seven for a typical ten-year-old. Who HAS one of those?  

 

Now - it sounds like you have a different vision. Trust your gut. Swing the pendulum. Be reckless. It's ok. A short experiment won't hurt anyone. Try something else for 30 days. Try alternating. You will feel something else. Your children will experience something else. And you might like it. Or you might hate it. Either way, you will have your answer. 

 

In the end, real education happens in fits and starts. For me, the problem was that I didn't have enough experience to see/read my kids well enough. Looking back, there were times when, yes, it was important to just keep plodding along. Slow, boring, steady, repetitive pacing is sometimes appropriate. Really - I think about my adult life now - and the lives of my now-mostly-adult-children (everyone is 20+). Life is mostly about getting out of bed and doing what you did yesterday except maybe tonight you have broccoli instead of carrots at dinner.  :001_smile:  Having peace about that is gold; keeps us sane. However, life has peaks. Periods where you jump to the next plateau before you start puddling around again. When I was teaching my kids, I couldn't always tell when they were about to leap. Looking back - yes, it's as clear as day. Then? No clue. Before they leap, the lesson plans seemed a bit off. But I couldn't see it then. And then AFTER they leap, the lesson plans were always all wrong. And I was left scratching my head. And feeling really uncomfortable. 

 

Multiply by three kids - all bouncing at different times. 

 

Tumultuous for the poor mother who doesn't know what is going on.

 

Trust your gut. Flip things around a bit. Go easy on yourself and don't do anything too traumatic. When they settle back in and start exploring the new plateau, you will need something organized to DO until the next leap. If you completely upend your world, you will be stuck second guessing yourself during the lull before the next event. 

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey