S/O of S/O When to throw in GS leadership towel

[lauraw4321]

I became a GS troop leader because our old leader left without any warning. I have been leading the troop for over a year. When I started, I was HS, SAHM.  Now I am a WOHM, full time. Both of my older daughters participate in my troop and love Scouts. But even after being a leader for only about 1.5 years, I'm so burned out. I did get a lot of help this year from a mom, but she won't be back next year (moving for a job). My co-leader and her daughter have been unhappy with scouts this year. I feel like I try very hard to do what the girls want (and let's face it, what the moms want), and I still feel like I'm behind/drowning/overwhelmed by it, and still not making folks happy.

 

I've made a PRO and CON list.  PRO: Girls have fun, make friends, get cool opportunities (although many of the opportunities are similar to those they get now in PS).  Cons: time,(sooo much time), money and stress.  I think I could probably find troops for my girls to participate. But I feel badly abandoning the girls. There may be a mom who would step up as a leader. I'm just so torn.  I'm usually not very indecisive, but I am really really undecided about this. 

 

Help me figure out how I should be thinking about this? How do you balance everyone's expectations of what the troop should be doing? How do you deal with Scouts who seem to not actually want to be there? Give me some ideas and wisdom, Hive!

[Guest]

Anything that takes that much time and energy away from my family, or that I dread doing or attending but continue for the sake of other people's children? I drop it like a hot cake.

 

You may be different, but when I'm in that place in my brain I'm no good to my family - grumpy, rushed, distracted. My kids would rather have a happy mom at home than a stressed mom at an activity.

[lauraw4321]

Thing is, my kids really like Scouts.  So it does benefit my kids...  But yes, I hear you.

[FaithManor]

Well, since my brother has had a stroke, entirely stress induced according to his doctor, I no longer take the stress thing lightly.

 

Working full time and doing such a big volunteer job is very stressful. One of things that concerns me about 4H and Scouts is that the paid leaders at the top of the organization don't seem to understand that every time they think of something new that leaders have to do, they further wear out their volunteer army. In the last three years the amount of paperwork, training sessions that I am required to attend on my own dime, meetings, you name it have all increased exponentially. I do not understand why they think this is an appropriate thing to do to volunteers. I don't get it. I can only assume it is because they are paid for their work, and have a disconnect with the fact that their full time job is the organization while for everyone else, they put those hours in some place else, and then turn around and work more for free.

 

I don't know what to think. One thing that came out at a state council meeting was that 4H is not growing. They lose more leaders than they keep. I pointed out that this was because of how burned out people are, and the fact that they keep dreaming up even more responsibilities and time consuming crazy for their volunteers. I told them that if they streamlined it, made volunteering much easier, took some of the pressure off leaders, paid more hours to each 4H extension office secretary to handle the paperwork end of things instead of pushing that on to volunteers, that likely it would be a lot easier to get people interested in leadership.

 

If you can't get someone to share the load equally with you or even two people to spread it around, given that the girls are not as enthused as they used to be, it may be time to move on. I feel your pain. I really do. I love working with the kids, and I feel guilty any time I think about giving it up. But that guilt and that stress preys on your health and well being which should be a big component up for consideration.

 

One thing I"m going to do when dh and I finally retire from club leadership is do resource leadership. Resource leaders offer to give advice in their areas of expertise, maybe offer a project/class once or twice a year. They don't have the responsibility of running a club, yet get to help kids do a project, gain a new skill, do some research, etc. It is a way of continuing to assist with education but without the pressure.

[unsinkable]

Thing is, my kids really like Scouts. So it does benefit my kids... But yes, I hear you.

You could have a meeting before the end of this year and ask for each mom and girl to pick a badge and a month to work on it (for next year). Most badges have a formula of group work, individual work, a field trip or a service project.

 

You can become the coordinator.

 

You should also have a few "badge in a box" activities handy for the months that plans go awry.

[lauraw4321]

How many girls are in the troop? How old are the girls? Also you say that the goleador and her kids have been unhappy and that you aren't making other folks happy, are there some specific complaints that they have with your leadership?

 

Girl Scout troops come and go. If you aren't able to do it anymore for whatever reason you could talk to the council and see if they have other volunteers available...maybe some other troop to merge with. Depending on the age of the girls and relationships with their parents you might be able to just be straight up with them and ask if one of them wants to take over

 

14 girls, but we are losing 4 of them next year.  We'll have brownies & juniors & one Daisy (my daughter) who if I stay, I will bridge her to Brownies early.

 

Co-leader's had a hard time because she's been handling the juniors and they have been bored/belligerent all year.  Her daughter feels like she doesn't have friends and she hasn't liked journey work (which is admittedly boring).  But, several girls wanted their summit pin, so we had to finish the last Brownie Journey before they bridged. 

 

It's tough to get things together for a "badge in a box" when I really don't have the time to shop, plan, etc.

 

Meeting with the co-leader tonight and she's asked me to decide what I want my role to be.  That's why I'm trying to get some advice.  Because I'm so torn and undecided.

[2_girls_mommy]

We are in a mixed level troop, always have been. In the one we are in, we have one main leader who does all administrative work, trainings, money, and cookie stuff. 

 

Then each level has a leader that does all of the work with the girls. We have one mom that does camp plannings. Our main leader is doing the daisy badges this year, and it is about to kill her. If nobody steps up next year I am going to try to convince her to do the one mom one month, one mom the next thing. I have done that in other troops, and it works well. 

 

Once a semester we moms that are the level leaders and the main leader get together to plan the dates of things and topics and camps and such. 

 

It is too much for one person.

[lauraw4321]

We are in a mixed level troop, always have been. In the one we are in, we have one main leader who does all administrative work, trainings, money, and cookie stuff. 

 

Then each level has a leader that does all of the work with the girls. We have one mom that does camp plannings. Our main leader is doing the daisy badges this year, and it is about to kill her. If nobody steps up next year I am going to try to convince her to do the one mom one month, one mom the next thing. I have done that in other troops, and it works well. 

 

Once a semester we moms that are the level leaders and the main leader get together to plan the dates of things and topics and camps and such. 

 

It is too much for one person.

 

Several moms are HS, several are single moms. Several are willing to step up if someone else does the planning. But it's hard to do the planning, YKWIM? I do all of the financial, certifications, etc. I have a mom attending SU meetings for me, but she's leaving next year, although I could probably drop them.

[unsinkable]

14 girls, but we are losing 4 of them next year. We'll have brownies & juniors & one Daisy (my daughter) who if I stay, I will bridge her to Brownies early.

 

Co-leader's had a hard time because she's been handling the juniors and they have been bored/belligerent all year. Her daughter feels like she doesn't have friends and she hasn't liked journey work (which is admittedly boring). But, several girls wanted their summit pin, so we had to finish the last Brownie Journey before they bridged.

 

It's tough to get things together for a "badge in a box" when I really don't have the time to shop, plan, etc.

 

Meeting with the co-leader tonight and she's asked me to decide what I want my role to be. That's why I'm trying to get some advice. Because I'm so torn and undecided.

Your council might have *badge in a box* kits.

 

Or let the moms and girls put one together.

 

Or call older troops and see if any of them need service hours and want to teach the younger girls a skill.

[2_girls_mommy]

and I HATE journeys. I try to do the main stuff in two sessions and then include a craft and a project along with planning the take action project. But in general. They are awful. But we have to do them for the bronze, silver, and golds, so we do. 

[unsinkable]

Several moms are HS, several are single moms. Several are willing to step up if someone else does the planning. But it's hard to do the planning, YKWIM? I do all of the financial, certifications, etc. I have a mom attending SU meetings for me, but she's leaving next year, although I could probably drop them.

See, I can plan until the cows come home...I love to plan. :D

 

Do you meet weekly or every other? You could cut back to 1st and 3rd weeks of the month or whatever.

[lauraw4321]

See, I can plan until the cows come home...I love to plan. :D

 

Do you meet weekly or every other? You could cut back to 1st and 3rd weeks of the month or whatever.

 

2X a month.  And I still struggle.  

 

Keeping up with which girls come to what, ordering badges/fun patches/sending out make up ideas so girls can stay on track, getting supplies needed for all my ideas, which result in driving all around town.  No, I'm not good at planning.

[lauraw4321]

Mixed level troops are more difficult to handle, IMO, because of the differing requirements.

 

If you are feeling overwhelmed I think there are a few options for you. You and your co-leader could split the troop, each of you taking just 5 girls, or split it by age.

 

You could also reverse roles with your co leader, and have her take the lead and do all the coordination and decisions, but you could still show up to help when needed.

 

You could also just step down, have her be the leader and leave your girls in the troop.

 

Another option would be to focus more on doing events and activities and less on badges and stuff. My DD8's hasn't done a single badge/try-it/patch/whatever they are called now for brownies, but they do a lot of STUFF together. On the 25th they did Thinking day, they did a campfire day at the leaders house, they spent one meeting talking about first aid...but none of it was geared towards a specific badge, it was just whatever they were interested in.

 

Our girls are badge-obsessed.  Their favorite thing is to have their vests full... 

 

These are good suggestions.  Thank you.

[Peaceseeker]

I say you did your turn so let someone else take over. You are adjusting to a major life change of working full time already. I would say "I am more than happy to help (just like those other moms say) but someone else will have to step up to the primary leadership role at this time. I have had a major life change of working full-time and I just do not have enough time to lead the troop next year".

 

When push comes to shove, someone will probably step up, or the troop will merge with another. Or you can just drive to a different troop which even with driving will feel less stressful probably. Or it can be a time for the girls to try something fun and different for a year.

 

Really any of those scenarios would be better than being stressed and unhappy. Just because your girls enjoy it does not mean you are obligated to lead a troop for the next decade. Seriously, some one else can have a turn! You don't even have to feel guilty about it- you volunteered to lead for almost two years!

[FaithManor]

Mixed level groups are very hard. This is one reason we do not do cloverbuds in 4H. Since the kids are so little, we'd have to come up with separate projects for them, and then host separate meetings too which is a ton more work and hours.

 

I think that if the group were split so that you only worked with one age group, just one, and then had parents willing to roll up their sleeves so that you coordinate more than you solo lead, that would be a much better situation for you.

[unsinkable]

2X a month. And I still struggle.

 

Keeping up with which girls come to what, ordering badges/fun patches/sending out make up ideas so girls can stay on track, getting supplies needed for all my ideas, which result in driving all around town. No, I'm not good at planning.

It is a lot of work! Truly enough for at least a couple people! That's why I'm tossing out ideas for spreading the work load.

 

Oct, Nov, Dec were always my favorite months. There are so many activities and SP for those months. The slog came in late winter, early spring. Like now!

[Wheres Toto]

I would talk to the parents and tell them if someone doesn't step up to start assisting with some of the work load, you may have to dissolve the group.  It definitely would be a lot easier if you had a single level going.  

 

Other than that, when I was a leader I made my plans based on what I had time to prepare/shop for, and if someone didn't like it - too bad.  This is a voluntary activity and I was a volunteer leader, they could find something else if my troop didn't work for them.

 

 

 

Working full time and doing such a big volunteer job is very stressful. One of things that concerns me about 4H and Scouts is that the paid leaders at the top of the organization don't seem to understand that every time they think of something new that leaders have to do, they further wear out their volunteer army. In the last three years the amount of paperwork, training sessions that I am required to attend on my own dime, meetings, you name it have all increased exponentially. I do not understand why they think this is an appropriate thing to do to volunteers. I don't get it. I can only assume it is because they are paid for their work, and have a disconnect with the fact that their full time job is the organization while for everyone else, they put those hours in some place else, and then turn around and work more for free.

 

I don't know what to think. One thing that came out at a state council meeting was that 4H is not growing. They lose more leaders than they keep. I pointed out that this was because of how burned out people are, and the fact that they keep dreaming up even more responsibilities and time consuming crazy for their volunteers. I told them that if they streamlined it, made volunteering much easier, took some of the pressure off leaders, paid more hours to each 4H extension office secretary to handle the paperwork end of things instead of pushing that on to volunteers, that likely it would be a lot easier to get people interested in leadership.

 

 

I wonder if this varies by state or even county.  I don't have to do anything for the county except get people to register online (which if they don't, they can't win county awards but that's it, not all of my members are registered), and collect permission slips for field trips (which I actually don't even send in to the county).   I did have to go to one training session when I started and I think I'm supposed to redo an online course each year on working with kids, but that's it for training. 

[FaithManor]

I would talk to the parents and tell them if someone doesn't step up to start assisting with some of the work load, you may have to dissolve the group.  It definitely would be a lot easier if you had a single level going.  

 

Other than that, when I was a leader I made my plans based on what I had time to prepare/shop for, and if someone didn't like it - too bad.  This is a voluntary activity and I was a volunteer leader, they could find something else if my troop didn't work for them.

 

 

 

I wonder if this varies by state or even county.  I don't have to do anything for the county except get people to register online (which if they don't, they can't win county awards but that's it, not all of my members are registered), and collect permission slips for field trips (which I actually don't even send in to the county).   I did have to go to one training session when I started and I think I'm supposed to redo an online course each year on working with kids, but that's it for training. 

Oh, it is definitely a state thing. There is NO continuity between states though 4H has a National Council. It is entirely up to your AG university.

 

So our AG school likes to think up new ways to torture leaders sometimes.

[City Mouse]

If your girls really like it and want to continue, but you don't have enough help (which sounds like the main issue) then you could cut back to 1 meeting per month. Look for events/badge classes run by others. It will cost more money, but it would be up to the individual families to pay or not. That way your girls get to participate but you don't have to be the one to plan it all. You wouldn't even have to arrange transportation to events unless you want to provide that option.

You do what you want to do, and the patents will have to step up if they want more.

 

But realistically splitting up and having the Juniors join with another jr troop and the brownies join a different brownie troop is probably the best idea

[itsheresomewhere]

Oh, it is definitely a state thing. There is NO continuity between states though 4H has a National Council. It is entirely up to your AG university.

 

So our AG school likes to think up new ways to torture leaders sometimes.

And just to add more fun- local 4H can have different requirements from the state 4H. If I went to the next county, they don't have some requirements my county does.

[Wheres Toto]

And just to add more fun- local 4H can have different requirements from the state 4H. If I went to the next county, they don't have some requirements my county does.

 

There seems to be some differences between counties here but it seems to be that some counties follow the state guidelines closely, and others not so much. 

 

Rutgers is our AG school.   They seem to offer a lot of support, do classes for kids and outreach stuff, but they don't seem to require much of the leaders, thankfully.

[lauraw4321]

I'm still undecided what I'm going to tell my co-leader.  I've already decided we won't sell cookies unless someone steps up as TCM. And I can skip SU meetings.  We'll have 4 brownies next year in the troop. It will be my 2nd year leading Brownies so at least I'll be able to go off of what we've done two years ago and it shouldn't be as bad...  I'm still undecided. Gah, I hate hard choices.

[lauraw4321]

One other thing you could do is run the troop like two separate troops sharing the meeting space/time. So like you take the 4 brownies and you have a brownie meeting in one side of the school gym (or whereever you have your meetings) and then the co leader could have the older girls meet on the other side. The troop comes together for council events like Thinking Day etc, and if your whole group happens to be working on some similar badge, like say you are doing the brownie camping badge, and the other girls are doing the junior camping badge, then you both take a camping trip together. Or whatever, you get the idea.

That is sort of how we do it already.

[J-rap]

Maybe there are other options.  Are there other GS clubs in the area that your group (or at least your girls) could merge with?  Would they consider a different type of group altogether, such as 4H?  In 4H, there is still a little parent involvement (if you're not a leader), but not nearly as much as what you're doing now, and there are goals for your girls to work toward and lots of interesting and fun activities.  My kids loved 4H!

[LucyStoner]

I would base my decision on how important scouts was for my kids.  If it's their favorite extracurricular, I would figure out a way to make it work.  If it's just something that they enjoy but aren't super attached to, I'd move on to volunteering as feasible at their school.  

[KarenNC]

For the badge-obsessed, pick what you think you can handle in the meetings during the year and tell the parents that the scouts are welcome to work on other badges at home and just turn in the documentation to you. The books are available. We did a lot of independent badges when my daughter was a junior. Yes, this means that some girls will have more than others, but that's the way life works.

[unsinkable]

I've never understood the worry about one Scout having more badges than another. Isn't that how it works? One Scout hustles, does the work, meets with the mb counselor, finds the horse, borrows the boat, pays the swim membership, does the computer coding, invests in the coin collection, whatever. Only two of our boys got mbs yesterday, out of 12 boys. One earned 3 (Eagle required ones!) and one earned one (a biggie--Swimming) and the others earned nothing this week. We all clapped and cheered. My kid's goal was to earn all 135 (at the time). He didn't start this quest for awhile, so for the last few years, it meant badges earned every week. It became a troop joke, but the boys cheered him on.

Because at younger ages, Girl Scouts nearly always do things as a troop. GS can earn badges starting in 1st grade, but very few are doing activities outside of the troop to earn them in those early grades. Most young troops earn badges together. There are foundational badges that the girls earn as they learn about scouting and as they do things together.

 

Also, Girl Scouts have different levels than Boy Scouts. The requirements change from Brownies to Juniors to Cadettes, etc...

 

Boy Scouts have the same requirements for badges from the time they become a scout until they are done...so 5th or 6th grade until 12th. Same requirements. Girl Scouts have either 3 or 4 levels spanning those ages.

 

As the girls get older, many girls DO earn different badges based on their personal outside interests (sports, arts, academic interests) but it doesn't happen very much at the earliest levels.

[lauraw4321]

Just to follow up... I've decided to continue.  She is willing to be the Junior leader, and I'm going to take the Brownies (going to bridge my Daisy early so that she'll be a Brownie).  We decided we won't do cookies unless we get a troop cookie manager volunteer.  Same for Fall Product.  I'm also not going to spend a lot of time recruiting, which took a lot more time than I expected. Since it's my second cycle with Brownies, I think that the prep will be less since I'll be repeating some of the badges I've already done. We're only considering it another one year commitment and we'll re-evaluate next year. 

 

Thank you to everyone who gave me feedback and gave me things to think about.

Edited March 7, 2017 by lauraw4321

[FaithManor]

Just to follow up... I've decided to continue.  She is willing to be the Junior leader, and I'm going to take the Brownies (going to bridge my Daisy early so that she'll be a Brownie).  We decided we won't do cookies unless we get a troop cookie manager volunteer.  Same for Fall Product.  I'm also not going to spend a lot of time recruiting, which took a lot more time than I expected. Since it's my second cycle with Brownies, I think that the prep will be less since I'll be repeating some of the badges I've already done. We're only considering it another one year commitment and we'll re-evaluate next year. 

 

Thank you to everyone who gave me feedback and gave me things to think about.

That sounds like a really solid plan!

[KarenNC]

 

I've never understood the worry about one Scout having more badges than another. Isn't that how it works? One Scout hustles, does the work, meets with the mb counselor, finds the horse, borrows the boat, pays the swim membership, does the computer coding, invests in the coin collection, whatever. Only two of our boys got mbs yesterday, out of 12 boys. One earned 3 (Eagle required ones!) and one earned one (a biggie--Swimming) and the others earned nothing this week. We all clapped and cheered. My kid's goal was to earn all 135 (at the time). He didn't start this quest for awhile, so for the last few years, it meant badges earned every week. It became a troop joke, but the boys cheered him on. 

 

 

Neither did I when my daughter's Brownie leader looked at me like I had three heads when I asked how we should report outside badge work we had done. I even offered to be the Badge Mom to help keep track for the troop so it wouldn't add to her workload. Her response was that it would make the other girls feel left out if one girl had things they didn't and wouldn't be fair to them for one girl to have more so she outright refused to give my daughter credit on any outside work she had done (one of many reasons we left and formed our own homeschool troop at the end of the year--this original troop was primarily public schoolers from a single school and neighborhood that wasn't ours). We had the books and I was incorporating a lot of the requirements for various things into school work we were doing because my daughter wanted to, it fit well, she thought it was fun, and, honestly, why not kill two birds with one stone. It also meant I had to spend less time on it than if I was doing all the school stuff and then Brownie stuff on top of it. It's what I remember doing as Brownie and Junior back in the dark ages.

 

I was a leader in our multi-age homeschool troop for three years before stepping down. My daughter was the only one of an age to bridge to Cadettes and it was an age at which I needed to step back to give her more of her own space, plus the new co-leader was much more about (and suited to) camping and outdoor activities, which they were itching to do. She's now an Ambassador in the same troop. We encouraged the girls to do outside work to whatever level they desired, including helping them look for outside Council's Own badges and patches for their special interests. My daughter even earned some of my old badges (we put them on the back as patches, taken from my old vest and using the requirements from my Girl Scout badge book).

 

Overall we found Juniors to be the peak time the girls wanted to actually earn badges. Our older girls are more about experiences together. My daughter ended up with so many badges and patches over her three years as a Junior I had to sew a sash onto the bottom of her vest. She's chosen not to work on either a Silver Award or a Gold Award. Granted, her change to Cadettes came at about the same time the new (and to my mind unfortunate) Journeys and books were introduced, which makes having access to the requirements to do independent work much more expensive, confusing, and cumbersome. It seems to me that much more of the new materials are geared to requiring group work rather than encouraging independence.

[KarenNC]

One thing to consider moving forward is that it's a lot easier to have a mixed Brownie/Junior troop than it is to add in Cadettes. There's a real divide in their interests and what they're allowed to do that I didn't believe would be a problem until we actually got there. We're having some issues now in having Ambassadors/Seniors and a couple Cadettes. The current leaders at one point decided they simply couldn't take on any new younger girls, even siblings of existing girls, because of it.

[lauraw4321]

One thing to consider moving forward is that it's a lot easier to have a mixed Brownie/Junior troop than it is to add in Cadettes. There's a real divide in their interests and what they're allowed to do that I didn't believe would be a problem until we actually got there. We're having some issues now in having Ambassadors/Seniors and a couple Cadettes. The current leaders at one point decided they simply couldn't take on any new younger girls, even siblings of existing girls, because of it.

I have no problem with girls earning badges outside of meetings. We incorporate them into our awards.

 

We will have 2 Cadettes year after next. We will have to re-evaluate then.

[Anne in CA]

If you can't make the moms happy, I would move on. I might finish the year, but I would move on. There is only so much time in the day and you can wear yourself out with this stuff. I gave up the bulk of my BS duties when I started working more than 30 hours a week consistently.