Charlie Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I think it is unrealistic to discuss severe mental illness that impairs objective decisions and executive functioning with a physical illness that does not impaire judgment about that illness. I could have all manner of illnesses that manifest in a physical way and not have my mental judgment about treatment clouded. By definition, the same is not true for many mental illnesses. So while removing the stigma of mental illness is important, I don't think that should be done at the expense of looking after this objectively. I do believe the examples I gave, like alcohol or ideologies including nationalism and religion, can and sometimes do impair objective decisions and executive functioning, thus my examples. But ultimately, my objection was to the idea of coerced treatment prior to a crime because one might be committed in one scenario - while ignoring when it happens in another. The reason I object to that, besides the affront to personal liberty, is because prejudice distracts us from our goals, and I think these kinds of goals are among the most important in any society. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Can you expand ? I only understand this in terms of environmental depletion. If it's everyone's problem it's nobody's problem. "Someone else will take care of that." "Gosh, that's horrible, someone should take care of that." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) Untreated alcoholics suffer themselves and hurt others. There is no reality where alcoholics refuse treatment and no-one but them suffers. So no different, really. nm Edited August 12, 2017 by G5052 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Yes, the literature put out by Al-Anon and similar organizations can be applied to families dealing with untreated mental illness too. I have several of their publications that I've found very helpful. Wish I had known about that years ago. Never really had any support. BUT I also am not religious so I avoid those groups. I'd be afraid of that sort of advice because it mostly just puts me in a bad mood. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) Wish I had known about that years ago. Never really had any support. BUT I also am not religious so I avoid those groups. I'd be afraid of that sort of advice because it mostly just puts me in a bad mood. nm Edited August 12, 2017 by G5052 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 It's a comparable situation, because chronic DWI offenders are in prison instead of in treatment. But regardless, the treatment/legal options for chronic alcoholics that hurt others, chronic drug abusers who hurt others, and chronically mentally ill who hurt others should be the same. People also get hurt on a regular basis by those who use alcohol to excess. Do we force treatment on them too ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 Block grants can be designated for broad categories of topics; I was referring to a block grant specified for mental illness treatment, which leaves states a lot of room to wiggle. Block grants are often an 'all you can eat buffet' for state and local government. There can end up being very little oversight. That is what we saw happen with TANF. It also leads to wild disparities in what is available to people. If a state decides to not allocate any of its block grant to the mentally ill because they see it as a way to get them and their families to move to other states, well... nothing to do to stop that. I'm not saying that block grants are useless, but there are lots of corporations that see them as easy pickings...and state legislatures that see them as prize money to hand out. So I'm not sure what is gained by them other than disparities between states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I've never been to an Al-Anon meeting, but a friend whose husband is addicted to pain medication clued me. She's very active in Al-Anon and as are her teens. And sadly, her husband continues to abuse. She gave me the publications. I know that there are also similar groups for mental illness, but I haven't looked into them at all to see what their literature is like. I think a group situation would get me down frankly. Yeah I'm not sure how much a group situation would help, but once in awhile I'd meet someone who was in a similar boat and I found talking to them helpful. My mother overheard me once talking to a guy I met in high school who had a similar home life. She was upset that I was telling him stuff. I was telling him stuff because it was someone who could commiserate with me. I understand why she was upset, but then she wasn't really being fair. She wasn't the only one who needed someone to talk to. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 The worst part of my mother having anxiety and severe depression was that it was lonely. I rarely had people over to my house after junior high. It was too unpredictable. I am pretty sure that it must have been horribly lonely to have a parent with more problems. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I think it's different for different people and illnesses. When my dad was on a manic high he felt pretty damn good. That is when he was most unpleasant to be around though. So basically he is told to take a medication that makes him more tolerable to others while he feels great. The medications dull him and often depress him. One of my loved ones had the same experience of greatly enjoying the manic highs, which made them far more than unpleasant. The fact that they really resisted medication that would help them not wreak a path of destruction because they "liked the way it felt" was incredibly hurtful and made it harder to forgive things done in the grip of mania. While I know the illness probably played into this, it's still very difficult to listen to someone calmly and rationally explain how they don't want to give up that feeling, even when they would acknowledge at least some of the great harm that had been done. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Block grants can be designated for broad categories of topics; I was referring to a block grant specified for mental illness treatment, which leaves states a lot of room to wiggle. I used TANF as an example but everything I said about the problems with block grants apply to block grans regarding mental illness treatment. Somehow that 'wiggle room' seems to mean some of the $$ ends up in the snowplowing fund. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 One of my loved ones had the same experience of greatly enjoying the manic highs, which made them far more than unpleasant. The fact that they really resisted medication that would help them not wreak a path of destruction because they "liked the way it felt" was incredibly hurtful and made it harder to forgive things done in the grip of mania. While I know the illness probably played into this, it's still very difficult to listen to someone calmly and rationally explain how they don't want to give up that feeling, even when they would acknowledge at least some of the great harm that had been done. Well for my dad, he has said to me before that when he starts feeling good he starts to worry. I mean how sad is that? You can't live your life feeling good and have to worry about feeling good. He was fairly cooperative. So it wasn't always about refusing to get treatment because he would rather be on a high, but just wishing he could live like regular people and ya know, feel good once in awhile. Plus this would happen while being treated. So the meds aren't perfect. When younger people tend not to be as stable even if they take the meds. The treatments are by no means magical. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Yes, that's probably true, but I still think that local governments know their people and their people's needs better than the federal government, and that trade-off is worth it. There is a bit of waste in every program, federal or state, and I feel this trade-off for this issue is a better option than a large, unresponsive federal program. I used TANF as an example but everything I said about the problems with block grants apply to block grans regarding mental illness treatment. Somehow that 'wiggle room' seems to mean some of the $$ ends up in the snowplowing fund. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I just finished reading two news stories about homeless people who died in Portland during the cold snap recently. Both of them were mentally ill with families who would have made any sacrifice to help them. In both cases they had refused treatment and disability because they would not believe they had a problem. One was a young man who hit his head in a skateboard accident and never was the same since. His parents wish they had had him committed while he was a minor and believe he would be alive now if they had. One was a former rose festival princess whose schizophrenia had worsened over the years. She had been evicted over $338 back rent and would not/ could not reach out to her mother or brother for help even though they would have helped her. It's just so sad. I don't think someone should be evicted in the middle of winter for $338 back rent, and her landlord knew she was mentally ill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Spammy post #229 reported Zombie thread alert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 We have an adult son with mental illness. He is functioning very well right now, but has a troubled history. He says that if there were a way for him to sign the rights to medical decisions over to us, his parents, if he should face another mental health crisis while he were still mentally healthy he would do it. He has taught us to notice early signs and to be aware of his functioning so he does not "fall off the cliff" again. During his crises, we were astonished by the large numbers of young adults facing mental health challenges, ill enough to be unable to make decisions in their own best interests, while legally unable to enlist the help of their parents. I have a friend whose schizophrenic son would forget to take meds and then be too ill to take meds, commit a crime and end up incarcerated, over and over again. He begged for his parents to be able to authorize meds for him, to no avail. Yes, I can foresee the issues with assigning rights like this. However, I also see the tragedy of our young adults with no place to turn. Would a medical surrogate cover this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.