J-rap Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 My dd has chronic pain issues (for seven years now; she is 23), but at least always slept like a rock at night, and felt refreshed in the mornings. About 6 months ago, that changed and her sleep is more restless -- although she still does get a decent amount of hours and does actually sleep -- but wakes up feeling tired instead of refreshed. As her morning goes on, she feels better and more awake, but it's become of a struggle to get there. What could be causing this? What might help? She was recently discovered to have low levels of vitamin D and is working on that. Although, she has been on a high dosage for about 3 weeks now and doesn't feel any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Could be so many things... Possible causes could be anemia, sleep apnea, poor sleep hygiene, lack of exercise, hyperthyroidism. Alcohol can interfere with sleep, even just one glass of wine with dinner can do it. I doubt she drinks since chronic pain and alcohol don't mix well, but I had to ask. Does she read a kindle or any electronic device in the evening? Does she take any medications? Some meds that aren't known to disrupt sleep can do so. Does she exercise at night? Evening workouts can make sleep dificult. Any new stress in her life? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Vitamin D takes quite a while to raise, so still could be that effecting her sleep. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Agreeing with above. Vitamin D and exercise timing can cause me issues. Also, for me hormones are a huge deal with sleep. Have been since my late 20's. It's not like they're static until Peri-menopause- you have ups and downs throughout life. Not sure how to cure it, but just something else to consider. Lastly stress. Is she more concerned about something over the last six months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in Appalachia Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Have her evaluated for Fibromyalgia My dd wa evaluated by a rheumatologist. He said, based on the latest studies, that it' caused by not getting into D (???) wave sleep. Anyway, it causes the pain. I have to leave, or I would share more. I hope your dd finds answers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Could you get her a sleep study? Had one done for our 25-yr-old, insurance covered all but $191. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 do they know what the pain is? or is it general? thyroid/adrenal can cause general pain, and restless unrefreshing sleep. vitamin d3 affects thyroid/adrenal most drs only check tsh - which isn't even a thyroid hormone. free t3, free t4, and reverse t3 plus a 24 hour spit cortisol test give far more accurate information. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 Could be so many things... Possible causes could be anemia, sleep apnea, poor sleep hygiene, lack of exercise, hyperthyroidism. Alcohol can interfere with sleep, even just one glass of wine with dinner can do it. I doubt she drinks since chronic pain and alcohol don't mix well, but I had to ask. Does she read a kindle or any electronic device in the evening? Does she take any medications? Some meds that aren't known to disrupt sleep can do so. Does she exercise at night? Evening workouts can make sleep dificult. Any new stress in her life? Her routine hasn't really changed much since it started happening. She did just have a range of tests because we're trying to dig into her chronic pain issues. The only thing unusual (as far as blood tests) that showed up were low vitamin D levels. She has chronic daily migraines/headaches as well as other pain issues, but it's not pain that keeps her from sleeping well (that she can tell). She just feels like she tosses and turns all night and wakes up feeling exhausted. She isn't on any meds, and rarely drinks. No evening workouts. In general she's a very content, optimistic gal, despite the pain issues. This has thrown her for a loop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 Vitamin D takes quite a while to raise, so still could be that effecting her sleep. Yes, I'm hoping this makes a difference eventually. A good night's rest really helped her through her pain issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 Is she more concerned about something over the last six months? Hmmm.. I don't think so, except that her autoimmune type symptoms are definitely worsening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 Have her evaluated for Fibromyalgia My dd wa evaluated by a rheumatologist. He said, based on the latest studies, that it' caused by not getting into D (???) wave sleep. Anyway, it causes the pain. I have to leave, or I would share more. I hope your dd finds answers. That's interesting. My dd does have symptoms of an autoimmune condition, and met with a rheumatologist just recently. Her ANA test was positive. But, the rheumatologist said he still does not see enough symptoms in her to diagnose her with an actual autoimmune disease yet. She has been meeting with this rheumatologist for several years now. I'm really curious about what you mean by the wave sleep and recent studies. When you have time, could you expand upon that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 Could you get her a sleep study? Had one done for our 25-yr-old, insurance covered all but $191. That's a good idea. She's getting a little tired of doctors by now, but I could probably talk her into this if it doesn't improve in the next months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 do they know what the pain is? or is it general? thyroid/adrenal can cause general pain, and restless unrefreshing sleep. vitamin d3 affects thyroid/adrenal most drs only check tsh - which isn't even a thyroid hormone. free t3, free t4, and reverse t3 plus a 24 hour spit cortisol test give far more accurate information. Her pain started as migraines/headaches that became immediately chronic. That is, 24 hours/day, daily, for years now. Migraines run in our family, but hers are never ending. Sometimes they are severe, and sometimes mild, but they're always there to some extent. But now she is getting vague lower back pain and join pain as well, off and on. She just met with her rheumatologist at Mayo, and we were really thinking he would diagnose her by now with something (an autoimmune), but he said that although she leans in that direction, she still doesn't show enough symptoms of one. She did just have a thorough thyroid test (one that has all the different things you mention), and everything was normal. Her cortisol levels were low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF612 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Has she tried any diet changes? My sleep, joint pain, headaches, energy all seem linked to gluten/wheat for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I take iron to help my restless legs and to help my sleep. I went to a neurologist about extreme fatique and a a nerve issue I have. He asked if I had RLS and when I said that I didn't think so, he asked if I moved a lot in my sleep. I said yes, but I thought it was due ot chronic pain. He tested my ferritin, which was low-normal and had me start taking iron tablets (325mg strength from behind the counter in the pharmacy, but not prescription). Within a month I felt Sooooo much better. From Johns Hopkins Role of Iron in RLS The single most consistent finding and the strongest environmental risk factor associated with RLS is iron insufficiency. Professor Nordlander first recognized the association between iron deficiency and RLS, and reported that treatment of the iron deficiency markedly improved, if not eliminated, the RLS symptoms. Despite this strong association between serum iron insufficiency and RLS, only about 15% of the RLS clinical population appears to have peripheral iron deficiency (serum ferritin < 50 mcg/l). To account for this, Professor Nordlander in proposing his “iron deficiency†hypothesis of RLS stated “It is possible…that there can exist an iron deficiency in the tissues in spite of normal serum iron.†This hypothesis has led investigators to examine whether the brain could be deficient in iron in the face of otherwise normal serum iron measures. All studies to date support the concept of diminished brain iron in patients with RLS even when blood tests indicate that their iron stores are normal. Cerebrospinal fluid obtained by lumbar puncture has shown that the iron storage protein ferritin is low in RLS patients, despite these patients having normal serum levels of iron and ferritin. Studies using MRI have shown decreased iron concentrations in the substantia nigra, one of the primary brain regions where dopamine-producing cells reside. One study using MRI found a strong relation between iron concentrations in the substantia nigra and the severity of the RLS symptoms. Through the generous efforts of RLS Foundation, a Brain Bank has been set for RLS patients who poshumously donate their brains for study. Studies on these tissues have shown markedly diminished iron and iron storage protein in the substantia nigra, consistent with iron insufficiency in the dopamine cells. Overall the studies support the concept of iron dysregulation in brains of patients with RLS, particularly in dopamine-producing cells. Gaps in our knowledge. Despite the substantial body of research on peripheral iron regulation, we still know very little about how iron is regulated by the blood-brain barrier or by the different cells within the brain. Also there is a relative lack of research on the effects of having iron insufficiency and on exactly how a brain region can be low in iron yet other organs in the body have normal levels? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Maybe depression? I know you said her mood seems upbeat. But sometimes depression can be more insidious than that, with just irritability. Anyway, serotonin level changes can cause sleep changes and tiredness, even with lots of sleep, just to throw it out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in Appalachia Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 This article from the sleep foundation mentions the Slow Wave Sleephttps://sleepfoundation.org/sleep-disorders-problems/fibromyalgia-and-sleep (the Dr called it D wave) This site has a bit more The doctor had told me about a study done on college students (He was at the conference where it was presented. He was quite excited about that) . They did not have fibromyalgia, but by disrupting their slow sleep wave they were able to "create" fibomyalgia in the students. When the students sleep was no longer disrupted the fibro symptoms went away. There is currently no way to get someone into that sleep wave. Some anti-depressants help fibro patients because it dampens nerve receptors, helping with the pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Any change in the thermostat? Any new lights nearby (someone fixed a street lamp near us and then my sleep went downhill)? Does she keep a cell phone in her room that might periodically beep or vibrate? Is a younger sibling making more noise than before? That's lousy. I hope she feels better soon. Emily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 How is here blood calcium level? Low d and high calcium can mean parathyroid troubles.can cause muscle pain and migraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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