Flip or Flop divorce

[Scarlett]

I absolutely understand that relationships with grandparents are different than with parents. It's why I included the fact that my grandparents had wonderful relationships with their children. Lives are long. The parent-child relationship can last 60+ years. That relationship isn't doomed because the parents were divorced for 5-10 years of childhood.

 

I'm not saying that divorce is in any way easy for kids, but I think they are much more influenced by the quality of the people raising them than they are by the marital status of their parents. I'm willing to bet there are as many stable divorced households as there are dysfunctional married households. People like to say the divorce rate is 50%, but has that even been true since the 80s? Also, WHO gets divorced on a whim outside of Hollywood? I know plenty of divorced people and I don't think any of them just woke up bored one day and decided to dissolve their marriages.

 

Maybe it's fun to judge other people's reasons for divorcing? How is it even possible to form an opinion when there's no way to know what goes on n anyone else's marriage? Maybe it just makes your own marriage feel bullet proof to believe that a high percentage of divorces came about from lack of effort? I don't think anyone is getting divorced to stick it to their children or because it's an easy thing to do. I just have a hard time believing that MOST people divorce for trivial reasons.

 

 

I guess you have more faith in people than I do.  I believe my XH's reasons for causing our divorce were trivial.  And I believe my dh's XW's reasons for leaving my dh were trivial.  

 

People really do divorce for trivial reasons.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Call me sentimental, but the Christmas season doesn't seem the right time to me, to start kicking around divorced persons.

[Scarlett]

Call me sentimental, but the Christmas season doesn't seem the right time to me, to start kicking around divorced persons.

 

 

Kicking around divorced people?  

 

I am divorced.  I actually filed for divorce.  I am not kicking myself.  I am not kicking anyone specifically.  

 

It is just a conversation.  I doubt Christina and Tarek are reading here.  

 

I don't know why the subject of divorce upsets people so much.  I wasnt a perfect wife....I don't mind admitting that.  And ending my marriage has caused my son pain.  I don't mind admitting that.  These are realities of divorce and sugar coating it does no good for no one.  

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I guess you have more faith in people than I do.  I believe my XH's reasons for causing our divorce were trivial.  And I believe my dh's XW's reasons for leaving my dh were trivial.  

 

People really do divorce for trivial reasons.

 

 

I don't know about your DH's ex, but I don't think the reasons for your divorce were trivial. I remember when you were pre-divorce and then going through your divorce, and IMO, your ex has a serious personality disorder. That is not trivial in any way, nor is what he put you through. No one treats another person that way without mental illness as part of the reason.

[Scarlett]

I don't know about your DH's ex, but I don't think the reasons for your divorce were trivial. I remember when you were pre-divorce and then going through your divorce, and IMO, your ex has a serious personality disorder. That is not trivial in any way, nor is what he put you through. No one treats another person that way without mental illness as part of the reason.

 

 

Thank you.  I really did try very very hard to make it work.  

 

And my dh is a very very good man.  I am still gobsmacked that anyone would let him go.  

 

What happens though is people get caught up in their own issues and lose site of the big picture.  

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

:iagree: How can anyone do that to children? Because to be a good parent, you should strive to be the best you possible. Sometimes living with another person, even the one you promised to love forever, can be seriously detrimental to that "best you." Sometime BECAUSE of the children, divorce IS the best case scenario. Part of modeling good relationship skills with your children is knowing when to break off one. 

 

I agree. And I've watched several families around us stay together for the children. It has turned out horribly for those children in every case. Everyone would have been better off if the parents had just gotten away from each other, and the kids in all cases are not healthy kids, nor were their relationship models healthy ones. It is truly awful to watch :(

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Thank you.  I really did try very very hard to make it work.  

 

And my dh is a very very good man.  I am still gobsmacked that anyone would let him go.  

 

What happens though is people get caught up in their own issues and lose site of the big picture.  

I know you did, I remember. You went well above and beyond what most of us would have tolerated or tried to work through  :grouphug:

 

I agree with you, but our personal issues are part of the big picture. We still have to take care of ourselves because we're still part of the family unit--you know, the old "put on your oxygen mask first or you're no good to anyone else" analogy. 

 

I think, when you're looking at someone else's marriage from the outside, it's easy to think you know what's going on, but from the inside, things may look very different. For example, I read about the gun episode, and my first thought was that someone who A) owns a gun and B) is prone to waving it around when angry is someone with issues I'm not sure I could overlook or overcome in a marriage. So if that's the tiny part we hear about out here, I wonder just how big and ugly the part is that's only visible from INSIDE the house/marriage. 

Edited December 18, 2016 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[Scarlett]

I know you did, I remember. You went well above and beyond what most of us would have tolerated or tried to work through  :grouphug:

 

I agree with you, but our personal issues are part of the big picture. We still have to take care of ourselves because we're still part of the family unit--you know, the old "put on your oxygen mask first or you're no good to anyone else" analogy. 

 

I think, when you're looking at someone else's marriage from the outside, it's easy to think you know what's going on, but from the inside, things may look very different. For example, I read about the gun episode, and my first thought was that someone who A) owns a gun and B) is prone to waving it around when angry is someone with issues I'm not sure I could overlook or overcome in a marriage. So if that's the tiny part we hear about out here, I wonder just how big and ugly the part is that's only visible from INSIDE the house/marriage. 

 

 

Right.  And I agree. The gun incident freaked me out too.  But then you hear they are both dating other people just a few months after separating.  

 

And also they all apparently downplayed/lied about the gun incident. It sounded like a possible suicide attempt?  Or maybe he was  going to shoot the guy who is dating? his wife?  I don't know.

 

It is one of the reasons I don't like guns.  High emotions happen....I don't want guns around when high emotions are happening.

[Guest]

I know we can't know everything from a reality show, but they both always seemed a little shallow. She seems pretty high maintenance. There was some sort of incident with a gun back in May and a contractor that she is now dating re at the house.

 

Chip and Joanna seem a little more grounded....she just seems to love his goofy self. LOL....

Chip and Joanna, though...he needs to stop playing up the goofy buffoon, IMO. I get an impression from him that is a little like when my 12yo realized that he did something amusing and then he does it twenty-seven more times, looking for the same YukYuks. Chip needs to quit that. The show is fun and I generally like it, but calm down on the "aren't I hilarious" show boating.

 

I'm also concerned that they are making their kids too big of a focus. I think this is also something the show's producers want because they believe viewers want that but personally, I'm really just there for the home renovation.

 

What I don't get about Christina and Tarek is that HGTV is running this "Tarek and Christina wish you a happy holiday," thing even right this minute as I watch.

[BarbecueMom]

Chip and Joanna, though...he needs to stop playing up the goofy buffoon, IMO. I get an impression from him that is a little like when my 12yo realized that he did something amusing and then he does it twenty-seven more times, looking for the same YukYuks. Chip needs to quit that. The show is fun and I generally like it, but calm down on the "aren't I hilarious" show boating.

 

I'm also concerned that they are making their kids too big of a focus. I think this is also something the show's producers want because they believe viewers want that but personally, I'm really just there for the home renovation.

 

What I don't get about Christina and Tarek is that HGTV is running this "Tarek and Christina wish you a happy holiday," thing even right this minute as I watch.

I told DH that if I was married to Chip, I would have driven the man to the middle of nowhere and left him by now.

 

I have the newest episodes of Flip or Flop recorded, but even as sick as I was today, I couldn't bring myself to watch it. As fake-ish as reality TV is, I was rooting for them. They'd been through a lot.

[Scarlett]

I told DH that if I was married to Chip, I would have driven the man to the middle of nowhere and left him by now.

 

I have the newest episodes of Flip or Flop recorded, but even as sick as I was today, I couldn't bring myself to watch it. As fake-ish as reality TV is, I was rooting for them. They'd been through a lot.

 

 

What have they been through?

[Scarlett]

Chip and Joanna, though...he needs to stop playing up the goofy buffoon, IMO. I get an impression from him that is a little like when my 12yo realized that he did something amusing and then he does it twenty-seven more times, looking for the same YukYuks. Chip needs to quit that. The show is fun and I generally like it, but calm down on the "aren't I hilarious" show boating.

 

I'm also concerned that they are making their kids too big of a focus. I think this is also something the show's producers want because they believe viewers want that but personally, I'm really just there for the home renovation.

 

What I don't get about Christina and Tarek is that HGTV is running this "Tarek and Christina wish you a happy holiday," thing even right this minute as I watch.

 

 

Well yeah.  I mean, the goofy thing doesn't do it for me, but the point is SHE never seems to mind it.....even when she is rolling her eyes she is smiling.  She acts like she thinks he is awesome.  

[BarbecueMom]

What have they been through?

The financial stuff, Tarek's cancer, the hazards of being reality "stars", the demands of a growing business. That's a lot of spinning plates in a short marriage.

[Scarlett]

The financial stuff, Tarek's cancer, the hazards of being reality "stars", the demands of a growing business. That's a lot of spinning plates in a short marriage.

 

 

I guess I missed the cancer.  I agree that is a lot to handle in a young marriage.

[Murphy101]

I guess I missed the cancer. I agree that is a lot to handle in a young marriage.

It's my biased opinion that fame in general is enough of a recipe for ruining any marriage and why I'm never surprised when famous people get divorced.

[Scarlett]

It's my biased opinion that fame in general is enough of a recipe for ruining any marriage and why I'm never surprised when famous people get divorced.

 

 

I see it so often that I wonder why more of them aren't prepared for it.

[Murphy101]

I see it so often that I wonder why more of them aren't prepared for it.

Who says they aren't? I'm sure many are in some limited financial manner.

 

And maybe bc it happens so often, I wonder if it's really considered a big deal.

 

And I suspect it takes a certain kind of ego to enjoy reality fame, so maybe they thought it would never them too.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Murphy101

[kiwik]

My parents had a fairly amicable divorce and I think my father would have kept the marriage going if my mother hadn't left. The problem was he would have also kept his affairs going.

 

I googled to see which ones they were (NZ only just got HGTV) and got things saying they were going to stay together for the kids.

Edited December 18, 2016 by kiwik

[ktgrok]

:iagree: How can anyone do that to children? Because to be a good parent, you should strive to be the best you possible. Sometimes living with another person, even the one you promised to love forever, can be seriously detrimental to that "best you." Sometime BECAUSE of the children, divorce IS the best case scenario. Part of modeling good relationship skills with your children is knowing when to break off one. 

 

Yup. Best thing I ever did for my son was to divorce his father. Absolutely. No doubt about it. Honestly, that first night apart, when he didn't have daddy to tuck him in, about killed me. But two days later when that man missed his son's first day of kindergarten because he was "too tired", I knew I'd done the right thing. Having that kind of neglect in his life day after day was so detrimental to my son. Day after day of him wanting attention from his father and being denied it was terrible for him. We moved in with my parents who, with me, gave him unconditional love and attention every single day and he thrived in it. Meanwhile, his father, who had his own issues, was WAY better at pulling it together and being a dad on a part time basis than trying to do it every day. I credit the divorce with the good relationship my son now has with his father...I think that would have been killed by neglect if I'd stayed with him. 

 

And that doesn't even start to add in the benefits that came when I got remarried, and he got an amazing stepfather that he has bonded with, who has similar interests, mentors him, etc. Or the two amazing siblings (and one on the way) that he never would have had if I hadn't divorced and remarried. (ex refused to have more kids because they would take my time away from him). 

 

So yeah. sometimes divorce is the very best thing for a kid. 

SaveSave

[ktgrok]

Yes Rosie it is true that sometimes one has to flee from an abusive marriage.  But  OFTEN it is not the case.....it is just one or more people who are too selfish to work through problems.  

 

True as well, but maybe the kids are better off spending less time with that parent if they are that selfish ? My BIL left my sister, for no real reason, other than "every day felt the same" plus he had been cheating on her with younger women. Like, college student age when he worked at a college. He's a schmuck and I will never forgive him, or understand how he could do that to my sister. He put her down, and was just awful to her. 

 

So yes, I blame him for leaving. But I'm glad he left if that is how he was going to be. My sister deserves better. And my nieces deserve a mom who is treated better than that. 

 

So it's complicated I guess. 

[ktgrok]

 

Eta: The ones I'm most confounded by are the supposedly very amicable ones. If they could get along that well - why divorce?

 

My ex and I are amicable. But that's BECAUSE we are divorced, so I have no real stake in his life, and can afford to be amicable. Plus, I put up with some stuff for my son's sake. Trust me the marriage was NOT amicable. But you'd never guess that if you see us together now. 

 

But it was still right to leave him. He was neglectful of my son, he would tell me he was still in love with his ex and loved her more than me, lie about where he was, refused to hold down a job, etc etc. I'd work 14 hours and come home and find our 4 year old had eaten nothing but potato chips all day while watching TV. Again. That was not acceptable, and despite 2 years of counseling, nothing changed. So I left and got my son into a better situation. 

 

Better one weekend of eating junk and watching TV every other week than every day all day. And my ex was better able to be a parent for a short stretch of time than on a daily basis. 

 

But that doesn't mean we are mean to each other, or hateful, or whatever. We settled everything via mediation (helped that he was too lazy to fight me on anything), we are flexible on visitation depending on what works out best for everyone, and have rarely had so much as a disagreement since divorcing 10 years ago. I may not like how he life, but as long as it doesn't veer into dangerous territory, I don't get a say anymore, so there is no point in arguing. 

[TranquilMind]

Not all marriages involve a vow before God and you know it. Many people are married in civil ceremonies.

 

I actually used to believe as you do about adultery, that it is always wrong, until I read about the case of a woman from Afghanistan. She had fallen in love and wanted to get married. But her parents instead forced her to marry a much older man she did not know in order to repay his family for something her brother had done to dishonor the man's family. So she and her boyfriend left the country and were living together. There was no way for her to legally divorce her husband in Afghanistan. I'm sure there are other cases where someone is technically committing adultery, but the actual circumstances are much more complicated.

 

I think things are often not as black and white or as simple as they seem, and we should not rush to judge others when we do not know the whole story.

That's what marriage is, whether they call it that or understand that, or not.   But you are free to refer to it as a contractual agreement.

 

As to the extreme example you use, that isn't marriage at all, if it is coerced.  No one is arguing here that coerced marriages are legitimate.  In fact, they violate human rights standards everywhere and are not condoned by any religion.   These marriages are voidable. 

[Caroline]

I think we can never know what is going on in someone else's marriage.

[poppy]

I only ever saw one episode . He ran out of money and had to call her dad for more. Obviously it's all staged and decisions like that happen off camera but it did stile me as super weird. Why is it a man conversation?

[Happy]

The financial stuff, Tarek's cancer, the hazards of being reality "stars", the demands of a growing business. That's a lot of spinning plates in a short marriage.

He had some serious back surgery, too.

[Guest]

I only ever saw one episode . He ran out of money and had to call her dad for more. Obviously it's all staged and decisions like that happen off camera but it did stile me as super weird. Why is it a man conversation?

Yeah, that particular episode really bugged me. I guess I felt like, "Oh, well THAT'S handy! Ask FIL for a loan!" A lot of people have to build their businesses without that handy safety net. It just annoyed me.

[Scarlett]

I had an amicable divorce. We met in the Army when I was 17; he was 19. We married at 24 and 26, respectively. We went into the Army to pay for college, and ended up going to the same college together. Our plan was for him to become a history professor and for me to go to law school. We wanted to be a DC power couple.

 

Along the way, he found that he enjoyed being an officer in the infantry. He was an Army Ranger. Even after deployments to Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, he told me that there was nothing he could imagine doing that would be more fulfilling than leading men into battle. In short, he was the kind of guy to whom you would want to entrust the life of your 18 year old son.

 

Unfortunately, I was a much better soldier than I was military wife. Out of the 11 years that we were together, we were apart for 7 of them -- for several years, we were an ocean apart. It broke me. I couldn't do it anymore. I wanted my husband around, but I also wanted him to be happy and professionally fulfilled.

 

We divorced amicably, both happily remarried and each have 2 beautiful children. He is currently a Lieutenant Colonel, and has been in command of over 1000 soldiers in a batallion. He has advanced degrees in history and military strategy. I have no doubt that he will be a General someday. Most important, we are both happy, and in loving marriages.

 

Were we wrong to divorce? I went through years of terrible depression dealing with our constant separations. I was young, and learned much about myself, and what I needed in a relationship. Learning from the mistakes my ex and I made together has made us better partners to our spouses today. I am still sad that our marriage ended, but I truly believe that it was for the best. YMMV.

I can't say it was wrong for you to divorce. That sounds unbearable to me. Somewhere along the way he decided to put his career ahead of his family. That is not right. As you can see it led to his children's FOO being broken.

 

I am glad you are happy now.

[StaceyinLA]

I haven't read all the replies, so I'm likely way off base here.

 

I never wanted my kids to be raised in a broken home. I had friends whose kids had to do that back and forth thing and they'd cry when they had to go "home" from one parent's house to the other. It was so sad and I hated it.

 

I had tolerated a lot already, but always thought my husband would do better, mature a bit, etc. Except he didn't. He basically behaved, most of the time, like he was single, which included late nights partying, not coming home for a couple days at a time, other women, verbal abuse toward me, etc.

 

By the time I asked him to leave, I had had enough; there was nothing he could've done at that point to keep us together. He had pushed it too far. I had begged for counseling, tried to get him active in our church at the time, etc.

 

He is 49 years old now; has been married and divorced again, and just ended a long-term relationship that was supposed to lead to a third marriage. He has never been a part of his children's lives, and has met 1 out of 5 of his grandchildren (and the 4 he has never laid eyes on were 30 minutes away from his house last week for 2 days).

 

One of my sons-in-law used to tell my daughter that she should try to develop a relationsip with him now that she's older, that it isn't healthy to not have a relationship with your father, etc. Well, he stayed with them for a couple days a few years ago, and my son-in-law told me that he never thought he would believe kids could be better off being raised without their father, but he truly believes that my children were better off because he wasn't around. He actually lectured them on why they should NOT have children. Wow! Way to make your daughter feel special!?!

 

Honestly, I do think people give up too easily these days, and want marriage to "feel" good. That's what society really tells us, right? We should do whatever feels good. I am very against that mentality, and believe people marriage is WORK and people shouldn't marry if they aren't willing to put in 110% all the time. However, a lot of people out there CAN be better off leaving a crummy marriage than sticking it out for the kids, and oftentimes, the kids really are better off as well.

 

PS - I realize I didn't mention the El Moussas at all, but I just need to add; they say the will still work together and maintain a professional relationship. Seriously, if I worked with my (now) husband, I'd have divorced him years ago. Maybe the better thing to do would be to NOT work together, and stay married.

[Scarlett]

I haven't read all the replies, so I'm likely way off base here.

 

I never wanted my kids to be raised in a broken home. I had friends whose kids had to do that back and forth thing and they'd cry when they had to go "home" from one parent's house to the other. It was so sad and I hated it.

 

I had tolerated a lot already, but always thought my husband would do better, mature a bit, etc. Except he didn't. He basically behaved, most of the time, like he was single, which included late nights partying, not coming home for a couple days at a time, other women, verbal abuse toward me, etc.

 

By the time I asked him to leave, I had had enough; there was nothing he could've done at that point to keep us together. He had pushed it too far. I had begged for counseling, tried to get him active in our church at the time, etc.

 

He is 49 years old now; has been married and divorced again, and just ended a long-term relationship that was supposed to lead to a third marriage. He has never been a part of his children's lives, and has met 1 out of 5 of his grandchildren (and the 4 he has never laid eyes on were 30 minutes away from his house last week for 2 days).

 

One of my sons-in-law used to tell my daughter that she should try to develop a relationsip with him now that she's older, that it isn't healthy to not have a relationship with your father, etc. Well, he stayed with them for a couple days a few years ago, and my son-in-law told me that he never thought he would believe kids could be better off being raised without their father, but he truly believes that my children were better off because he wasn't around. He actually lectured them on why they should NOT have children. Wow! Way to make your daughter feel special!?!

 

Honestly, I do think people give up too easily these days, and want marriage to "feel" good. That's what society really tells us, right? We should do whatever feels good. I am very against that mentality, and believe people marriage is WORK and people shouldn't marry if they aren't willing to put in 110% all the time. However, a lot of people out there CAN be better off leaving a crummy marriage than sticking it out for the kids, and oftentimes, the kids really are better off as well.

 

PS - I realize I didn't mention the El Moussas at all, but I just need to add; they say the will still work together and maintain a professional relationship. Seriously, if I worked with my (now) husband, I'd have divorced him years ago. Maybe the better thing to do would be to NOT work together, and stay married.

All of this is pretty much how I feel too. Sometimes one mate has no choice but to divorce.....but I have seen several marriages where I am very close to the couple and one just gives up way too easily has an affair and destroys the family. And usually the one who does the marriage ruining ends up with long term problems and never quite gets it together. That is always telling to me.