Any PS third grade experience here?

[displace]

I think this is a long shot, but is anyone here experienced with PS Third grade, specifically common core (we're in FL). We are doing a trial run for DS this year. I'm posting in chat as it seems to be the most visited (instead of learning challenges).

 

We are having trouble with common core standards because of learning disabilities. I read the FSA pass rate (our state test) is only about 50%, and the guess for students with dyslexia is less than 20%. What I'm wondering is if anyone has had experience, neurotypical or not, with the standards and difficulty of third grade. I'm considering homeschooling again and I'm trying to get a "feel" for general consensus. ETA - General consensus about the difficulties or ease of common core standards .

 

All thoughts appreciated, even if your situation isn't exactly the same as us, or even if it's a friend's story, etc. Thanks! 🙂

Edited November 9, 2016 by displace

[Mr. G]

My 3rd grader attends a public charter school in FL. What exactly is the question?

 

Also, the Parents Afterschooling board is an entire sub-board for parents with kids in BM schools of all sorts. 

[Chris in VA]

We put dd in 3rd grade here in VA after homeschooling before that. It was before CCore. It's the year they seem to solidify skills before they are required to use those skills in content learning in 4th grade, IME. Also, it's the grade where early learners and late bloomers tend to come together--stats I've read show any advantages of early learning are basically erased by then (but I can't cite those stats, just what I recall--and it's been a while).

 

My only advice is to get your child the help your needs THIS year, ASAP, because next year will be a whole new ballgame--reading to learn vs learning to read, for example.

 

 

[grantmeawish]

My dd was in 3rd grade ps last year and used common core. We had been using Singapore math. We found she was ahead in math. Yes the school used common core but my dd picked it up quickly and never had a problem.

[Guest]

Third grade math ime is where the need to remember and to move beyond manipulatives happens. Manipulatives arent dropped, but pictorial and symbolic are used and more abstraction and persistence are reqd. Word problems may require visualization and two step. Students who arent strong with mental addition and subtraction may need to continue to improve those skills via a tutor. Students who dont read on grade level may need support.

 

Be sure and get all the help your child needs to succeed.

[displace]

Thanks for the replies so far. Sorry I wasn't clear on what I was asking. I guess just opinions if anyone here had general concerns or difficulties with CC standards in third grade. I will try the afterschooling board if I don't get more responses. I just thought this board was more active. I don't check afterschooling often ☺ï¸

 

My reason for asking is as a parent with a student with learning disabilities, if even the regular kids have a 50% fail rate on the state test, what should I expect for us? So I was looking for generic opinions about third grade CC.

 

We are afterschooling our remediation currently after two years of homeschooling. I thought we were at a level that he would be able to succeed. I am seeking support through the schools too but that's a whole other can of worms.

Edited November 9, 2016 by displace

[umsami]

I've had kids in PS 3rd grade in FL.  If documented LD, you should be able to get extra/unlimited time for the FSA.  But if they don't pass, it's a big deal in 3rd grade.  I know that they can do summer school, but I don't know if that is offered and valid for those that score 2s.  I would talk to the school counselor and get a plan in place now, even if it means that you withdraw to homeschool right before the FSA.

[displace]

I've had kids in PS 3rd grade in FL. If documented LD, you should be able to get extra/unlimited time for the FSA. But if they don't pass, it's a big deal in 3rd grade. I know that they can do summer school, but I don't know if that is offered and valid for those that score 2s. I would talk to the school counselor and get a plan in place now, even if it means that you withdraw to homeschool right before the FSA.

I was considering opting out of the test, but only if we were planning on staying in PS. I want an IEP in place before we leave to help with any future experiences. I don't want to spend time doing this in the future.

[displace]

ETA - any stories are welcomed. Not just from parents with concerns about CC, but anything, the "no issue here" stories too.

[Guest]

You cant look at the performance of another child and get anything useful - too many hidden variables. Here, the district does only the minimum, in an effort to get everyone to pass. No one gets enough instruction to ace the test..they get just enough to pass. The students who are doing very very well are tutored or afterschooled, or they are quite gifted and reason some things out on their own. Its not a matter of LD or not, its a matter of access to the omitted units.

 

What I did was teach SM at home. The school wasnt asking the students to do more than memorize such things as the nines finger trick, which does not in any way meet the objective of understanding multiplication or the array model. Fractions were not even mentioned that year.

What you should consider doing is asking the head classroom teacher for her plans. What will be covered? Then compare that to the common core objectives and to what your child is learning.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[gardenmom5]

for the learning disabilities - does he have an IEP?  if he does not - I would bring it up to your school resource person now, they are legally obligated to provide testing and help.  I went to the medical schools child dev center and got their report first - so they couldn't just say "oh, nothing's wrong".  (some schools will try to do that because it costs money to give extra support.)

 

he should be eligible for extra help and accommodations - including extra time or even someone reading the questions to him.

[MistyMountain]

Third grade can be tough grade and often where a wall can be reached for kids with learning disabilities. I am not liking the stats in my area of kids who are not proficient in reading or math or the down the line stats of kids who never graduate or who are failing high school subjects. There are no tools to help kids meet the standards because by the time they can get help they are older and reading instruction has stopped. I have no problem with the stuff about learning math conceptually in common core but our local curriculum was slapped together way too fast and is not a well done version that makes sure kids really get those numeracy skills.

[kentuckymom]

My son has dyslexia, and third grade was actually a really good year for him. Part of it was that, thanks to after school tutoring for 2 1/2 years at that point, he had finally reached the point where he could keep up in class. He was still just barely in the middle, but he wasn't way behind anymore. Part of it was also that he had an amazing teacher. When I told her that the homework was really hard and was taking hours each night, she changed his homework. Our district doesn't hold kids back for not getting a proficient score on the state test at the end of 3rd grade, but he did score proficient. I've never looked up the stats for what percentage of kids scores proficient or above, but I think it's higher than the ones you quoted for Florida. 

 

My advice his, keep pushing the school to get an IEP, keep helping him after school, and just see what happens this year. If it's going badly, it sounds like homeschooling is still on the table for you, so you can always pull him out before the testing happens.

[heartlikealion]

In our state (Miss.) there is a test students must pass to move onto third grade. Do you have that? I do know that some state tests were changed a few times in the past few years, but not sure which tests. This is what a friend in public school told me when I complained about test results in my area. My ds is in private 3rd this year. They do not use CC so I'm not much help there.

 

While homeschooling we used Math Mammoth which is CC aligned. For the most part the program did not bother me. I even purchased the third grade edition before we enrolled ds in private. I am planning on purchasing the 4th grade as we're returning to homeschooling next year (for a few reasons). Not sure exactly how it compares to PS math curricula, though.

 

Which subject are you most concerned about?

[Squawky Acres]

My homeschooled DS8 begged and pleaded to go to public school, and is trying out 3rd grade this year at our local school down the road.  He absolutely loves it, and has had no trouble with the academics -- although I am confident that the teachers would work with him to help catch up as needed.  They were extremely helpful, and understanding that he might be behind in certain areas because we were not following the same scope and sequence; but so far we haven't found any of those areas.  

 

In math, they follow the common core standards, are learning multiplication and using something similar to Singapore Math -- although at a much slower pace.  He hasn't encountered any new material in math yet, but I think it is valuable training anyway to help him cement his multiplication facts.  He is learning some new things in writing (working on paragraph construction and writing opinion pieces), but it has been taught very incrementally and has not been difficult.  I can't figure out what they are doing in reading, but the teachers reports that he is in the highest reading group.

 

We found the homeschooling to third grade transition to be completely seamless, and school standards (even common core standards) to be less rigorous than my own.  I think that is often the case with homeschoolers, as we have not seen our kids compared with other students and often don't know their strengths.  We are after-schooling a foreign language because that is not offered at school, and I am also keeping up with our history cycle with SOTW as I like for that to be linear (it is more topical in school).  

[Lecka]

My kids are in public school and only have MAP testing as far as I know.

 

My older son would be most similar to your son, and his test scores swing around wildly.

 

It is Common Core, but it doesn't seem to be like Common Core in other places. Here it seems pretty low-key.

 

I think asking your teacher might be good? Maybe he/she has a pretty good sense already of how your child would do.

 

My older son's scores are unpredictable, but his teachers usually will say "this is lower than I expect based on what I see in class" or else things that imply they don't see that level of work from him in class. Which -- hey, that is just how it is for him. He can do better or worse on things than what is expected. When it is better, it is nice. When it is worse, oh well.

 

If the teacher thinks he has a level where she expects him to pass, then if he doesn't pass, and it seems to be poor test-taking, then I think that they will likely work with you to get him some kind of test-taking accommodation (there are easy ones like extended time and taking the test alone instead of in the computer lab).

 

I looked at samples for the Oklahoma 3rd grade reading test (we live in Kansas, but I am from Oklahoma and they have a reading test thing, or maybe just OKC, not sure). My son would have passed that test.

[Lecka]

I might be missing the point here.... but can you google for sample questions and get a sense?

 

Yes my older son was a bit behind on some things in 3rd grade.

 

But bc MAP testing is done on a computer, it would play to his strengths. No handwriting! No composition!

 

So it may be he does better than he can do in class.

 

But, it could be the test is picky and hits all his weaknesses, and is not a fair reflection of his abilities.

 

I think his teacher might have a good idea if he would pass, or hopefully it would be apparent for you looking at samples.

 

High-stakes testing seems so stressful, but we don't really have it here. The MAP testing is low-key and teachers are nice about my older son's wild scores.

 

He does good with participating in class, talking in class, that kind of thing.

 

My younger daughter is scoring lower in math and it is consistent, math is harder for her. I have been spending more time with her. Her teacher is keeping an eye on her.

 

It is new for me as my older son has not been a consistent tester or seemed like his results were consistent with his classwork, a lot of the time.

[displace]

Thanks for the great responses! I'll try to respond more tonight 🙂

[katilac]

You can see practice tests here: http://www.fsassessments.org/students-and-families/practice-tests/

 

FAQ here: http://www.fsassessments.org/students-and-families/faqs/

 

This link talks about 3rd grade: http://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/7539/urlt/readtolearn.pdf

 

Notice that it says that only children at level 1 will not be promoted, and even then there is an appeals process. Level 2 is not 'passing' the FSA, but will not result in being held back. Math results do not result in being held back. 

 

I took a quick glance at the reading test, and it seems to be pretty straightforward: read a passage, answer comprehension questions, put events in order, and so on. 

 

The test and retention policy both seem pretty reasonable to me. If a student can't read, they are going to flounder in 4th-grade, absolutely. 

 

I would look at the sample tests for more information, rather than trying to figure out common core standards and how they might be implemented. 

 

[displace]

You cant look at the performance of another child and get anything useful - too many hidden variables. Here, the district does only the minimum, in an effort to get everyone to pass. No one gets enough instruction to ace the test..they get just enough to pass. The students who are doing very very well are tutored or afterschooled, or they are quite gifted and reason some things out on their own. Its not a matter of LD or not, its a matter of access to the omitted units.

 

What I did was teach SM at home. The school wasnt asking the students to do more than memorize such things as the nines finger trick, which does not in any way meet the objective of understanding multiplication or the array model. Fractions were not even mentioned that year.

What you should consider doing is asking the head classroom teacher for her plans. What will be covered? Then compare that to the common core objectives and to what your child is learning.

I think one thing in PS is to be aware of what the teacher is covering and what the standards are. Many schools encourage parental involvement but then don't explain what they're covering, wait until students are way behind before implementation of help, and just don't have time for feedback.

[displace]

for the learning disabilities - does he have an IEP? if he does not - I would bring it up to your school resource person now, they are legally obligated to provide testing and help. I went to the medical schools child dev center and got their report first - so they couldn't just say "oh, nothing's wrong". (some schools will try to do that because it costs money to give extra support.)

 

he should be eligible for extra help and accommodations - including extra time or even someone reading the questions to him.

We have time accommodations in place and "daily teacher communication" but it's worthless. I do need to seek an IEP but I'm doubtful we'll get much more (DS needs probably a scribe for dysgraphia and audio help). I may seek it just for legal protection for future education down the line.

[displace]

My son has dyslexia, and third grade was actually a really good year for him. Part of it was that, thanks to after school tutoring for 2 1/2 years at that point, he had finally reached the point where he could keep up in class. He was still just barely in the middle, but he wasn't way behind anymore. Part of it was also that he had an amazing teacher. When I told her that the homework was really hard and was taking hours each night, she changed his homework. Our district doesn't hold kids back for not getting a proficient score on the state test at the end of 3rd grade, but he did score proficient. I've never looked up the stats for what percentage of kids scores proficient or above, but I think it's higher than the ones you quoted for Florida.

 

My advice his, keep pushing the school to get an IEP, keep helping him after school, and just see what happens this year. If it's going badly, it sounds like homeschooling is still on the table for you, so you can always pull him out before the testing happens.

Yes, homeschooling is our go to back up plan. His reading was on level when he started but with writing a big portion (and a writing disability), the whole language arts is suffering. Plus now there's little time to advance those skills. We don't have a ton of homework but it's interfering with remediation, as well as school time interfering.

[displace]

In our state (Miss.) there is a test students must pass to move onto third grade. Do you have that? I do know that some state tests were changed a few times in the past few years, but not sure which tests. This is what a friend in public school told me when I complained about test results in my area. My ds is in private 3rd this year. They do not use CC so I'm not much help there.

 

While homeschooling we used Math Mammoth which is CC aligned. For the most part the program did not bother me. I even purchased the third grade edition before we enrolled ds in private. I am planning on purchasing the 4th grade as we're returning to homeschooling next year (for a few reasons). Not sure exactly how it compares to PS math curricula, though.

 

Which subject are you most concerned about?

We have a state test to pass third grade. Our biggest challenge is language arts.

[displace]

I might be missing the point here.... but can you google for sample questions and get a sense?

 

Yes my older son was a bit behind on some things in 3rd grade.

 

But bc MAP testing is done on a computer, it would play to his strengths. No handwriting! No composition!

 

So it may be he does better than he can do in class.

 

But, it could be the test is picky and hits all his weaknesses, and is not a fair reflection of his abilities.

 

I think his teacher might have a good idea if he would pass, or hopefully it would be apparent for you looking at samples.

 

High-stakes testing seems so stressful, but we don't really have it here. The MAP testing is low-key and teachers are nice about my older son's wild scores.

 

He does good with participating in class, talking in class, that kind of thing.

 

My younger daughter is scoring lower in math and it is consistent, math is harder for her. I have been spending more time with her. Her teacher is keeping an eye on her.

 

It is new for me as my older son has not been a consistent tester or seemed like his results were consistent with his classwork, a lot of the time.

Our state tests are computer or paper (it changes). So far he's not doing well in school so I can't imagine how he'd do on the exam.

[displace]

You can see practice tests here: http://www.fsassessments.org/students-and-families/practice-tests/

 

FAQ here: http://www.fsassessments.org/students-and-families/faqs/

 

This link talks about 3rd grade: http://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/7539/urlt/readtolearn.pdf

 

Notice that it says that only children at level 1 will not be promoted, and even then there is an appeals process. Level 2 is not 'passing' the FSA, but will not result in being held back. Math results do not result in being held back.

 

I took a quick glance at the reading test, and it seems to be pretty straightforward: read a passage, answer comprehension questions, put events in order, and so on.

 

The test and retention policy both seem pretty reasonable to me. If a student can't read, they are going to flounder in 4th-grade, absolutely.

 

I would look at the sample tests for more information, rather than trying to figure out common core standards and how they might be implemented.

Thanks for these links.