Ancient Literature or...NOT

[Mom25girls]

I'm attempting to plan for my fourth 9th grader and suddenly (as the deadlines draw near), she is really balking on reading Ancient Literature. We've always used a WTM approach and I must say, this came as a bit of a surprise. In my attempts to allow her some ownership of her own learning (this is a child who does NOT love school and really want to go to our public high school), I'd like to develop a year where she is interested and excited with school. I Googled ninth grade literature selections and there are many. I COULD do a year of British literature (US is next year) or a year of exploring classic high school books. This daughter is an avid reader so I'm sure that the difficulty level of the Ancients isn't her concern. Sigh...This has been the most difficult planning year I've ever experienced (and it's my 18th year homeschooling). I'm hoping that it will result in learners who are well invested in their learning. We shall see... Thanks in advance for any input, advice or just for reading this far. Thanks, Michele.

[Chrysalis Academy]

You might glean some inspiration from this: The Reader's Odyssey

 

The author argues that by high school students should be allowed to pick their own literature and offers suggestions how to create an interest-led lit class, rubrics, assignments, etc.

 

My dd is studying Ancient & Medieval history too. She has very little interest in reading primary sources in philosophy and history. She likes theater, so we're including a bunch of plays. We're doing The Odyssey, because she was interested. We're doing some modern retellings/responses to ancient lit. But I'm not going to try and make her do things she's not interested in. If she was really balking at Ancient Lit altogether, I'd skip it for now and maybe come back around to it later.  Or not . . . 

[Lori D.]

My dd … has very little interest in reading primary sources in philosophy and history. She likes theater, so we're including a bunch of plays. We're doing The Odyssey, because she was interested. We're doing some modern retellings/responses to ancient lit. But I'm not going to try and make her do things she's not interested in. If she was really balking at Ancient Lit altogether, I'd skip it for now and maybe come back around to it later.  Or not . . . 

 

While I know that including primary sources, philosophy, etc. is part of a traditional classical Great Books model, I personally rebel ;) at including non-fiction into the Literature portion of an English course, as those works are discussed in a completely different way than works of literature (novels, novellas, short stories, poetry, plays), and cannot be analyzed at all in the way novels, novellas, short stories, poetry, and plays can.

 

 

My dd … likes theater, so we're including a bunch of plays. We're doing The Odyssey, because she was interested. We're doing some modern retellings/responses to ancient lit...

 

Chrysalis Academy has a super list of literature tailored exactly for her DD's interests that she has posted in another thread. I definitely think that's the way to go… There is SOOOO much classic literature out there that NO one can read it all in high school. Why not pick and choose the works that will best speak to, or challenge, or engage, each individual student? :) That is far more likely to also meet your stated goal:

 

 

... I'd like to develop a year where she is interested and excited with school…  This daughter is an avid reader...

 

So, what kinds of things is your DD interested in? What kinds of books has she enjoyed reading in the past? Since she's an avid reader, it shouldn't be too hard for us to help you come up with a specialized literature study that would excite her. :)

[mo2]

You might glean some inspiration from this: The Reader's Odyssey

 

The author argues that by high school students should be allowed to pick their own literature and offers suggestions how to create an interest-led lit class, rubrics, assignments, etc.

 

I was going to recommend the same book.  I read it a few years ago and am re-reading it now that we are entering the high-school years.  The author outlines a good plan for allowing your child to choose their own literature while, at the same time, ensuring they are choosing quality literature.  Basically, you lay out a few requirements and then the student chooses books that fit those requirements.

[Mom25girls]

Chrysalis and mo2, I wish that I could get my hands on that book!! I checked Amazon and there is a delay (even with Prime). My local library doesn't have it and neither do any others in the system. Have you ever used it to create a literature based Elective? My daughter has looked at so many books that she is coming up with a VERY eclectic mix. I'm thinking that perhaps a half year program might be a win/win (and help her commit to the "Big Literature issue".

[Bluegoat]

Does she have some specific objection to ancient lit?

 

I really think C.S. Lewis advice to read two old books for every new one is good.  But I don't know that old has to mean ancient - it might mean something like Jane Austen, or even something Victorian.

 

I tend to think that in the HS years, which here mean 10 to 12, it is great for kids to get a wide variety of ages and types of lit.  So that would mean some ancient selections, but also plenty of other things.  I don't think that would be all that overwhelming.

 

For a student who seemd to balk, I would consider tackling it a bit differently - maybe looking at Greek plays, say, but start by watching some productions, which could really be a lot of fun.

[Momto6inIN]

I have to admit that the WTM reading list for Ancients for high school does not float my boat at all. I can imagine a 9th grader feeling similarly. ;)

 

I know I'm undereducated when it comes to many on these boards, but I've barely even heard of many of those titles, let alone read them, and I like to think I turned out all right. I'd think that letting her pick quality literature that she's interested in and can engage with is much more important than making sure she's read whatever's on a list. Even if it's a really great list by SWB.

[EKS]

If you're doing ancient history next year, then I'd do some ancient literature (say Gilgamesh, the Iliad, and the Odyssey), but you don't have to spend the entire year on it.  You could even do them as read alouds if that would make it more palatable for her.

 

I see that someone recommended the Reader's Odyssey.  I (sort of) did this with my son this year and it worked well.  Basically you have a shelf (or shelves) of books that your student can choose from.  You can further divide things into groups--say books written before 1900, from 1900-1960, from 1960 to present, and nonfiction.  I can't remember if dividing things was the author's idea or not, but it works well for helping the student to pick a variety of books.

[katilac]

I have to admit that the WTM reading list for Ancients for high school does not float my boat at all. I can imagine a 9th grader feeling similarly. ;)

 

 

 

I agree, and we definitely do quite a bit of substituting. You could spend a great deal of time on myths and legends alone, comparing them across cultures. 

 

So, I would see if it's ancient lit in general that's the issue, or the particular book list you have going on. 

[mo2]

Chrysalis and mo2, I wish that I could get my hands on that book!! I checked Amazon and there is a delay (even with Prime). My local library doesn't have it and neither do any others in the system. Have you ever used it to create a literature based Elective? My daughter has looked at so many books that she is coming up with a VERY eclectic mix. I'm thinking that perhaps a half year program might be a win/win (and help her commit to the "Big Literature issue".

I am using this book while planning for this school year (9th).  I'm a little behind in my planning, but I have had my daughter fill out a list of interests as recommended in the book and I've made a list of books I think might fit those interests.  My next step is to outline some requirements for her as to how much reading she needs to get done at a minimum.  I need to re-read the sections on that, as well as the sections on grading.  I'm sure I won't do things exactly the way the author suggests (I never do!), but it will be helpful. 

[Mom25girls]

We started Ancient Lit today and...she LOVES it! LOL! We watched this and it was really exciting. Seriously. http://www.learner.org/courses/worldlit/gilgamesh/watch/  To update, our "compromise" was that dd would do one unit of Ancient Literature and one full unit of Contemporary Literature. It's kind of an interesting....compromise but we're both happy so it's a good thing!

[Pistachio mom]

With your ancient lit semester, you might want to check the other discussion that on the boards right now about creating a mythology literature course. Some of the discussion contributions might add ideas for your content.

[Lori D.]

We started Ancient Lit today and...she LOVES it! LOL! We watched this and it was really exciting. Seriously. http://www.learner.org/courses/worldlit/gilgamesh/watch/  To update, our "compromise" was that dd would do one unit of Ancient Literature and one full unit of Contemporary Literature. It's kind of an interesting....compromise but we're both happy so it's a good thing!

 

:hurray: Awesome! That is always a huge boost, to kick off a subject that was "iffy" in the student's mind with a resource that excites the student. :) Hope you both continue to enjoy the Ancient / Contemporary Lit. year!

 

I just watched a short clip of that Annenburg Learner video you linked, and I can see how that really would make the idea of ancient Lit. come alive. :) Do you have a list of resources to help spark interest for other of the ancient works? You can always ask for ideas for interesting extras -- and it would be helpful to others at the end of your Ancient Lit. studies to post your list of what really clicked for your student. :)

 

Have a super 9th grade year! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Pat in MI]

Rainbow Resource has  The Reader's Odyssey for $12.95.

[BlsdMama]

I have to admit that the WTM reading list for Ancients for high school does not float my boat at all. I can imagine a 9th grader feeling similarly. ;)

 

I know I'm undereducated when it comes to many on these boards, but I've barely even heard of many of those titles, let alone read them, and I like to think I turned out all right. I'd think that letting her pick quality literature that she's interested in and can engage with is much more important than making sure she's read whatever's on a list. Even if it's a really great list by SWB.

 

I agree.  I do not enjoy Ancients... I barely enjoy the elementary years.  I tried hard to get DD to skip Ancients entirely this year... still working on it. :/

[froggermonster]

We are were using the WTM and the WEM for literature coinciding with our world history. I'll say that it has been a bumpy road since we started in August. My precocious well-read 9th grader struggled with the ancient texts paired with ancient history. I like the IDEA of keeping history and literature on the same time frame, but reading in detail and engaging with ancient texts is really hard. It is hard for educated adults; it is hard for college students; and it was extraordinarily hard for my 9th grader. 

 

What I did was 1. freak out that we were total failures, 2. rethink. Instead of reading the original ancients, we read some excerpts in the Bedford Anthology. For the good ones, like the Epic of Gilgamesh, I found interesting audio versions to tell the story. (For Gilgamesh, I highly recommend the Podcast of World History and the Myths and Legends Podcast.). Then, I had my 9th grader go through the questions in WEM, write a summary, and then dictate an audio summary of the story. This gets us through understanding the lit as it relates to the history. NOTE: For ancient history, the context part of the WTM and WEM approach is pointless - there is great uncertainty about authorship, time period, and even geographical source for some texts. 

 

We are thankfully to 1450 now (flying through an AP World History curriculum this year to allow deep dives into modern history for rest of high school), and literature is FINALLY sensible to a 9th grader. 

 

I'd say don't do ancients with 9th graders if you are trying to teach literature, just based on our experience. Keep literature fresh, at least at the beginning. Kids can learn to engage with modern texts, when they have the contexts to understand the author perspective better. Then, they can go back later and learn the ancients.