Dog Advice Again: Deafness -- UPDATE in Post 122

[SeaConquest]

We have had our new Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppy, Cody, for less than 48 hours. I had been noticing that this was the most non-reactive dog I have ever seen. Nothing phases him at all. It seemed to me to be almost abnormally non-reactive, so I decided to check his hearing. After running all the tests that I gave to my older cocker spaniel, after I suspected that he had lost his hearing, I am now pretty sure that Cody is deaf.

 

Apparently, there are very few vets who can run a conclusive audiology test to confirm. The breeder would like to take Cody to her vet (who is one of the few that has the specialized equipment) to confirm.

 

The breeder has given us the choice of returning him, of getting our money back, or of receiving another dog. My husband and I will discuss it tonight, but, I think a dog born deaf would likely be happiest if he had another dog as a companion and helper. So, my heart is leaning in that direction. On the flip side, Cody was the runt of the litter, is extremely small for his age, had two siblings who didn't make it, and now, likely, is deaf.

 

Ironically, I asked for a bomb-proof dog, and I literally got one. With my cocker, when he lost his hearing, he became more reactive. He startled and could snap. Cody doesn't care at all. My kids are noisy; they drop things, make explosion sounds, sword fight, etc. Cody doesn't bat an eyelash. He goes up to everyone and everything to investigate and to get a pet. 

 

I was already planning to enroll him in obedience training, and the trainer I was planning to work with has experience training deaf dogs. I too have experience in working with my cocker in his senior years. So, none of this really phases me. I am just trying to think long-term about his health -- does this portend future issues? -- and how he will integrate into our family. So far, he is an absolute doll.  

 

So, dog experts, what do you think we should do?

 

ETA: Puppy pics:

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153723691443261&set=a.10150168523243261.307010.585033260&type=3&theater

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1030885053658444&set=a.122192681194357.31592.100002108775692&type=3&theater

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153722305623261&set=a.10150168523243261.307010.585033260&type=3&theater

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153720349883261&set=a.10150168523243261.307010.585033260&type=3&theater

Edited July 24, 2016 by SeaConquest

[Pink and Green Mom]

He is totally adorable.

[hornblower]

oh boy :( 

Fwiw, I know several people who have deaf pitties & boxers (it seems to float along with the white coat gene). They use vibration only collars & remotes to teach commands at a distance & hand signals for other training. The dogs are very attentive. It might not be a huge thing for you but still - it's a special needs dog. 

 

Have you looked at this page http://www.cavalierhealth.org/deafness.htm

he's so cute tho :D 

 

[Pawz4me]

My main concern would be keeping him safe.  You're planning on boating and RV'ing, right?  That would require a LOT of vigilance for any dog, but even more for one who can't hear verbal commands..

[SeaConquest]

oh boy :( 

 

Fwiw, I know several people who have deaf pitties & boxers (it seems to float along with the white coat gene). They use vibration only collars & remotes to teach commands at a distance & hand signals for other training. The dogs are very attentive. It might not be a huge thing for you but still - it's a special needs dog. 

 

Have you looked at this page http://www.cavalierhealth.org/deafness.htm

 

he's so cute tho :D 

 

 

 

I did read it, and spent all afternoon reading about deaf dogs generally -- training, myths about them, etc. Honestly, if this dog showed even a whiff of reactivity, I would send him back to her. It's just that he is so currently bombproof that I feel like G-d gave us this dog because we would be committed to training him and giving him a happy  life. On the other hand, he is a 5.5 month old dog. Will he still be this nonchalant about everything in a few years? Hard to say. And, does this portend even worse health issues down the road? I mean, that is why we went with one of these uppity breeders in the first place.

 

On the other hand, we actually wanted two dogs -- until we saw the price of Cavaliers from reputable breeders and went  :svengo:  So, in essence, we are getting a twofer if we take another dog.

[Spy Car]

I helped a good friend train her deaf white pit. The dog did quite well on hand signals, but these were imperfect when the dog was running away or was out of sight (naturally).

 

We added an e-collar (a SportDog) than has a vibration setting that we positively conditioned to serve as a recall command. Worked beautifully.

 

This collar also has a "stim" (shock) setting as well, which was only employed a couple of times when the deaf dog was heading out of the fencing at our long-established unofficial off-leash park (which has breachable entrances/exits). Friend likes that she could call in her dog at any distance with a vibration, and that she had a fail-safe if her dog was heading towards traffic. Having the e-collar gave her the security to get her dog out frequently, and both enjoy a great social world at the park. The dog is very well-trained.

 

Bill

 

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Spy Car

[SeaConquest]

Pawz, I cannot quote you for some reason.

 

We are planning to boat and RV. But, just recreational/weekend boating and the RV stuff is just pie in the sky right now. Odds are just as good that we stay put and buy a house with a yard in San Diego. Miranda was deaf for at least the last 4 years of his life, and he still went everywhere with us, and we used hand signals, etc. So, it's not really a huge deal for us. Our dog is going to live in a city; he won't be a country dog left to roam about. The dog park and dog beach will be about as much freedom as he is likely to get in his life.

Edited May 25, 2016 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

I helped a good friend train her deaf white pit. The dog did quite well on hand signals, but these were imperfect when the dog was running away or was out of sight (naturally).

 

We added an e-collar (a SportDog) than has a vibration setting that we positively conditioned to serve as a recall command. Worked beautifully.

 

This collar also has a "stim" (shock) setting as well, which was only employed a couple of times when the deaf dog was heading out of the fencing at our long-established unofficial off-leash park (which has breachable entrances/exits). Friend likes that she could call in her dog at any distance with a vibration, and that she had a fail-safe if her dog was heading towards traffic. Having the e-collar gave her the security to get her dog out frequently, and both enjoy a great social world at the park. The dog is very well-trained.

 

Bill

 

Thank you for this, Bill. It is very helpful.

[SeaConquest]

In some ways, I kinda feel like it would make me a better dog/animal owner. Perhaps, I am looking at this with rose-colored glasses.

[gingersmom]

I know zero about deaf dogs. How do you think he will react when your kids have friends over? Or strangers?

 

Based on everything you said about the litter I would probably return him and go to another breeder.

 

I grew up with a bichon frise with serious health issues. My mother says now she had to be crazy for the amount of money she spent on the dog (easily $40,000+)

 

Why did the breeder still have the dog at 5 1/2 months?

 

Two dogs is twice the monthly flea/tick medicine, twice as much for annual vet visits, boarding, training, etc.

Edited May 25, 2016 by gingersmom

[SeaConquest]

I know zero about deaf dogs. How do you think he will react when your kids have friends over? Or strangers?

 

Based on everything you said about the litter I would probably return him and go to another breeder.

 

I grew up with a bichon frise with serious health issues. My mother says now she had to be crazy for the amount of money she spent on the dog (easily $40,000+)

 

Why did the breeder still have the dog at 5 1/2 months?

 

Two dogs is twice the monthly flea/tick medicine, twice as much for annual vet visits, boarding, training, etc.

 

We have been having people over, and have been taking him with us everywhere. We haven't left this dog in the two days that we have been with him. He loves everyone. Took him to the vet; she poked around everywhere (including anal temp), and he didn't care. My cocker used to have to be muzzled for the same things.

 

My kids and their friends have been playing games next to him -- crashing trucks, sword fights, etc. He doesn't care. He just wants to cuddle.

 

The breeder told me that she held him back because he was small, and wanted to give him time to mature. The only other dog she had at the time was his show-quality sister, which she has offered to me. 

[Spy Car]

Thank you for this, Bill. It is very helpful.

 

This model is excellent for people who don't plan to let their dogs range at long distances. The price is reasonable, and the transmitter is quite small (and be worn around the neck).

 

I know having a collar that is capable of "stim" will make one regular poster's head explode, but it is a feature you don't have to use that might save a deaf-dogs life if needed.

 

I strongly recommend getting a collar from this source, if you get one (and keep the dog), as they have both the best prices and awesome customer service. Not Amazon.

 

http://www.gundogsupply.com/sd-425-fieldtrainer.html

 

If you want tips on how to train, simply ask.

 

Bill 

[SeaConquest]

One other thing. I was planning to get pet insurance for the dog anyway, since Cavs are so prone to issues. No one has actually diagnosed him with anything at this point, so perhaps I should insure him right away, in case anything else crops up.

[SeaConquest]

This model is excellent for people who don't plan to let their dogs range at long distances. The price is reasonable, and the transmitter is quite small (and be worn around the neck).

 

I know having a collar that is capable of "stim" will make one regular poster's head explode, but it is a feature you don't have to use that might save a deaf-dogs life if needed.

 

I strongly recommend getting a collar from this source, if you get one (and keep the dog), as they have both the best prices and awesome customer service. Not Amazon.

 

http://www.gundogsupply.com/sd-425-fieldtrainer.html

 

If you want tips on how to train, simply ask.

 

Bill 

 

Thanks, Bill. I would not normally consider any kind of stim collar on a dog, but I understand how it might be helpful in the circumstances you described. I will ask the trainer her thoughts as well.

Edited May 25, 2016 by SeaConquest

[Spy Car]

One other thing. I was planning to get pet insurance for the dog anyway, since Cavs are so prone to issues. No one has actually diagnosed him with anything at this point, so perhaps I should insure him right away, in case anything else crops up.

 

Sounds wise.

 

You bought into a breed with a lot of issues.

 

Bill

[gingersmom]

One other thing. I was planning to get pet insurance for the dog anyway, since Cavs are so prone to issues. No one has actually diagnosed him with anything at this point, so perhaps I should insure him right away, in case anything else crops up.

I have pet insurance on all 3 of my furry kids. I wonder if it's more for a deaf dog?

[SeaConquest]

This model is excellent for people who don't plan to let their dogs range at long distances. The price is reasonable, and the transmitter is quite small (and be worn around the neck).

 

I know having a collar that is capable of "stim" will make one regular poster's head explode, but it is a feature you don't have to use that might save a deaf-dogs life if needed.

 

I strongly recommend getting a collar from this source, if you get one (and keep the dog), as they have both the best prices and awesome customer service. Not Amazon.

 

http://www.gundogsupply.com/sd-425-fieldtrainer.html

 

If you want tips on how to train, simply ask.

 

Bill 

 

That collar is enormous! How would it fit on a tiny dog? He's currently 8 pounds, and not likely to get more than 15.

Edited May 25, 2016 by SeaConquest

[Pawz4me]

One other thing. I was planning to get pet insurance for the dog anyway, since Cavs are so prone to issues. No one has actually diagnosed him with anything at this point, so perhaps I should insure him right away, in case anything else crops up.

Make sure whatever policy you get doesn't have hereditary/genetic exclusions. Most used to but I think there are quite a few now that don't.

[SeaConquest]

Make sure whatever policy you get doesn't have hereditary/genetic exclusions. Most used to but I think there are quite a few now that don't.

 

Yes. All the ones that I was considering did not have this exclusion. That would kind of defeat the purpose with Cav insurance. :)

[Spy Car]

Thanks, Bill. I would not normally consider any kind of stim collar on a dog, but I understand how it might be helpful in the circumstances you described. I will ask the trainer her thoughts as well.

 

I've never trained one of my own dogs with an e-collar either. I love a dog-whistle myself. 

 

But Lola (the deaf pit) had breached the fence a couple times. Her owner was panicked, and not without cause. Lola is a super-social dog. Without a means of stopping her, the owner would likely have stopped getting her out. I think that Lola was hit with "stim" twice, at a relatively low level (one I tried on my arm). That was enough to teach the lesson.

 

There are other ways to teach these behaviors with dogs that have hearing. 99.99% of the time the collar was used as a "positive" tool for recall in the "vibrate" mode.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

That collar is enormous! How would it fit on a tiny dog? He's currently 8 pounds, and no likely to get more than 15.

 

The photo is deceptive. The transmitter is small. If you get it from the linked source and don't like it, they will give you a refund (no questions asked).

 

For now you can work on hand signals. I like a big sweep starting overhead then down than can be seen from a distance. Put a high-value meat treat in once fingers and "come" can be taught quickly.

 

Just get everyone in the family on the same page in terms of what signal you use. Later you can overlay a vibrate pattern on top of the hand signal training.

 

Bill

Edited May 25, 2016 by Spy Car

[SeaConquest]

I uploaded some videos that my husband and I took. Does anyone think that this dog can hear? I would love to be wrong.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B90-ZcaAWGMDZFBlVklzdXJlVnc/view?usp=sharing

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B90-ZcaAWGMDVXhob05HVXJUc1E

 

Also, if we do decide to keep him, and add another dog later on, would it be too difficult to add another male? I am reading that we would likely be better off with a female, but I don't know if this is another myth.

 

 

[Pawz4me]

I uploaded some videos that my husband and I took. Does anyone think that this dog can hear? I would love to be wrong.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B90-ZcaAWGMDZFBlVklzdXJlVnc/view?usp=sharing

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B90-ZcaAWGMDVXhob05HVXJUc1E

 

Also, if we do decide to keep him, and add another dog later on, would it be too difficult to add another male? I am reading that we would likely be better off with a female, but I don't know if this is another myth.

 

The general belief is that opposite sexes tend to get along best, then two males.  The least favored combination is two females.  That doesn't mean two females can't get along--many do.  But if they don't the fights can be really vicious.  I've BTDT (not willingly or w/o proper thought -- they were strays who found me) and would never intentionally have two females at a time.  I've never had any problem with two males at a time, and wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

 

I don't think you're wrong. :(

Edited May 25, 2016 by Pawz4me

[Carrie12345]

Not an expert in this area, but dh was recently researching Dalmations, which are often deaf, and often euthanized for it.  (Not condoning or criticizing, just sharing info.)  Beyond their own safety issues, a deaf dog is much more vulnerable to unexpected human actions, and particularly unexpected CHILD actions.  The instinct to bite out of fear is real.  I don't know if I would want to handle that in an all-adult household, but I would not risk it in a house with kids.

[Spy Car]

The videos, unfortunately, don't offer any evidence the dog has any hearing.

 

Bill

[zimom]

Audiologist here.  For humans.  You did a good job with behavioral testing.  Did not see any indication of reactions.  On the second video I was specifically watching his breathing and there was no change.  It would have been nice if there was more quiet time in between the sounds but you still did a good job.  Try to do more while he is quietly resting but not asleep and then try to keep the room quiet for a good bit between sounds.   Lastly, make sure he isn't watching the person making the sound.  

Edited May 25, 2016 by zimom

[SeaConquest]

Not an expert in this area, but dh was recently researching Dalmations, which are often deaf, and often euthanized for it. (Not condoning or criticizing, just sharing info.) Beyond their own safety issues, a deaf dog is much more vulnerable to unexpected human actions, and particularly unexpected CHILD actions. The instinct to bite out of fear is real. I don't know if I would want to handle that in an all-adult household, but I would not risk it in a house with kids.

I've read that that is a myth, and that it completely depends on the animal. As I mentioned, this dog is almost 6 months old, and hasn't shown a hint of reactivity with anyone. The fact that he was so nonreactive was what clued me in to the hearing issue in the first place.

[SeaConquest]

Audiologist here. For humans. You did a good job with behavioral testing. Did not see any indication of reactions. On the second video I was specifically watching his breathing and there was no change. It would have been nice if there was more quiet time in between the sounds but you still did a good job. Try to do more while he is quietly resting but not asleep and then try to keep the room quiet for a good bit between sounds. Lastly, make sure he isn't watching the person making the sound.

Thank you. We did several other unrecorded tests, at different pitches, etc. Only once did he react, and it may have been from movement by my husband. We've tried to find evidence of hearing, but aren't finding it, unfortunately.

[SeaConquest]

Audiologist here. For humans. You did a good job with behavioral testing. Did not see any indication of reactions. On the second video I was specifically watching his breathing and there was no change. It would have been nice if there was more quiet time in between the sounds but you still did a good job. Try to do more while he is quietly resting but not asleep and then try to keep the room quiet for a good bit between sounds. Lastly, make sure he isn't watching the person making the sound.

This was another one we did, but the file is very large:

 

http://mbf.me/NPatAr

[Joker]

We rescued a senior dog a few years ago from a local shelter and after having her for two days realized she was deaf. She was never reactive to anyone, including our dds or other dog. She was an absolute sweetheart and we kept her until she died. 

[Spy Car]

Do start recall training ASAP. Use high value treats and physical praise as a reward. Settle on a hand signal for recall that everyone will use consistently. This is important.

 

Only use the hand signal (for now) when you feel the dog is near-100% likely to come for the reward. So inside, and where there are no distractions. Then repeat. Repeat. Repeat. 

 

I'd over-lay a collar with vibrate function (with a pattern, like two or three quick bursts) that you use with the established hand signals only after the hand signal recall is well-established.

 

Again introduce the collar in a setting that helps assure success. It does not matter if the dog is only 3 feet away. It is better to build the positive conditioning to a near automatic response at short range, rather than testing limits. As a dog associates the hand signals and collar vibrations with positive rewards the dog will come flying in.

 

Bill

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Spy Car

[zimom]

This was another one we did, but the file is very large:

 

http://mbf.me/NPatAr

 

Again, I'm a people audiologist :)  But when I watch this video there is only a second of quiet and then when the sound comes on there is a head bob from the dog.  Could be total coincidence.  All the sound after you can't count because at the point it is just racket.  If he is use to being around a lot of noise he would be expected to be non-reactive to it.   

 

Make sure you are having it very quiet for much longer (no kids laughing, no background tv).  Then have a burst of sound, not on and on.  That will give you a better test.  

 

Please do not take this as critical, I just don't know what kind of background the dog came from I'm just trying to give you the best, most accurate test conditions.  Also, make sure that there also aren't kids, etc in view of the dog that are going to jump when the sound comes on that in turn are going to make the dog react.  (all things that would happen frequently when i was testing babies).  Dad's hand needs to be over the dog's head still for awhile before he turns the sound on.  

 

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by zimom

[Spy Car]

When *I* tested Lola (being no audiologist) I used my "silent whistle," which are not silent, but pitched to very high frequencies. I've never seen a dog not react to a silent whistle unless they were deaf.

 

The model I have is the traditional Acme 535 from Britain. At about $25-30 it is too expensive for a one-time use, but there are cheap Chinese knock-offs (like Remington) that can be had for about $3-5. If a dog did not react to a silent whistle, I'd be convinced. 

 

Bill

[hornblower]

I think you should get Cody tested by someone who does the BAER screening. 

Were the parents BAER screened? 


Have you had Cody around strange dogs? How does he play with them?  I do think the odds are in your favour a fair bit with temperament. CKCSs tend to be super friendly dogs. The two my mom has had have been both very placid. Lilly is a bit of a scaredy chicken but she wouldn't snap, she just hides behind people's legs if she's feeling nervous. 

[SeaConquest]

Again, I'm a people audiologist :)  But when I watch this video there is only a second of quiet and then when the sound comes on there is a head bob from the dog.  Could be total coincidence.  All the sound after you can't count because at the point it is just racket.  If he is use to being around a lot of noise he would be expected to be non-reactive to it.   

 

Make sure you are having it very quiet for much longer (no kids laughing, no background tv).  Then have a burst of sound, not on and on.  That will give you a better test.  

 

Please do not take this as critical, I just don't know what kind of background the dog came from I'm just trying to give you the best, most accurate test conditions.  Also, make sure that there also aren't kids, etc in view of the dog that are going to jump when the sound comes on that in turn are going to make the dog react.  (all things that would happen frequently when i was testing babies).  Dad's hand needs to be over the dog's head still for awhile before he turns the sound on.  

 

This is helpful. We have repeated over and over, most of it not filmed, but will continue to try.

 

I just tried whistling in bursts, with him wide awake, laying at my feet (his favorite spot). It seems like sometimes I will hit a tone that he hears, and he almost looks confused by it. It could just be coincidence because most of the time he just sits motionless no matter what the sound.

 

Could he only be hearing certain tones?  

Edited May 25, 2016 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

I found two models that were recommended by the Deaf Dog Education Action Fund website. Both will work on a dog this size. I have never used one of these collars. Does anyone have any input on which of the two would be a better choice?

 

http://www.k9electronics.com/dog-training-collars/unleashed-technology-gentle-trainer-gt-3.html

 

and

 

http://shop.dogtra.com/280c/

 

My husband and I are very concerned that if we give the dog back, he will be euthanized. I am not sure that we can have that on our conscience. If there was any sign of risk to my children, I would send him back. But, from what I have seen, the biggest risk is to our pocketbook. My husband and I can live with that risk to help an animal.   

[hornblower]

have you seen this page & the site as whole http://www.deafdogs.org/resources/vibramakers.php

[hornblower]

If you see their descriptions, they specifically say something about sizing. 

"As a general rule of thumb, the collar should weigh 5% or less of the dog's healthy body weight (which is still quite a bit: think about carrying 5% of your own body weight around your neck for any length of time). Most of these collars will only fit a medium to large sized dog." 

"The biggest drawback to the vibrating collars currently available is their weight. The collars weigh between 2.3 to 7.8 oz (65g to 221g) and are really too heavy for smaller dogs (or puppies) to wear comfortably. Think about it: if the dog weighs only 20 lbs. (9 kgs), it would be like having a 2.3 pound (1 kg) weight around the neck of a 150 lb. (68kg) person. What fun would that be?" 


I think unless you find a very small model, you will have to do without a collar.  That page actually isn't that keen on the collars for most deaf dogs...

[SeaConquest]

I think you should get Cody tested by someone who does the BAER screening. 

 

Were the parents BAER screened? 

 

 

Have you had Cody around strange dogs? How does he play with them?  I do think the odds are in your favour a fair bit with temperament. CKCSs tend to be super friendly dogs. The two my mom has had have been both very placid. Lilly is a bit of a scaredy chicken but she wouldn't snap, she just hides behind people's legs if she's feeling nervous. 

 

The breeder is going to take him to her fancy repro vet, as they are one of the few place in So Cal who do BAER testing. Neither of the parents were BAER tested, but they are both show dogs, so she has had to communicate with them. She is obviously concerned with her breeding lines and reputation, but apparently, there is no way to DNA test for this issue in Cavs. Not sure how to get to the bottom of who is the gene carrier.

 

He has seen other dogs when I met him (and her) at the dog show. He didn't seem to care about them. Other dogs have also walked past our patio window and he hasn't barked at them. I was thinking of taking him to our local small dog park just to be sure.

 

My cocker was a scaredy cat, that eventually translated into fear biting, as he aged. I don't see any anxiety or timidity in this dog. Several people have handled him, picked him up, etc., and he doesn't mind. My cocker would never have allowed that with strangers.

Edited May 25, 2016 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

have you seen this page & the site as whole http://www.deafdogs.org/resources/vibramakers.php

 

Yes. That is where I have been getting information. There is also a FB Page called Deaf Dogs Rock.

[hornblower]

I'd be really tempted to take him to a good fenced small dog park (we have ones that are specifically for little dogs) and let him offleash so you can see how he plays. 

So hard isn't it?  & you guys must be getting attached.... 

[SeaConquest]

I'd be really tempted to take him to a good fenced small dog park (we have ones that are specifically for little dogs) and let him offleash so you can see how he plays. 

 

So hard isn't it?  & you guys must be getting attached.... 

 

Yes, we are getting attached. He has been such a sweetie. My husband is especially a softie, and I am pretty stoned on a combo of Benedryl and Zyrtec at the moment.

 

We have a fenced small dog park a few miles away. I think that I will take him there this afternoon and see how he does. There are also a million doggie daycares, which is what I did with my latchkey cocker when I was slaving away at work.

[Spy Car]

A 15 lb dog weights 240 oz.

 

5% of 240 oz is 12 oz.

 

The collar I recommended weighs 2.4 oz or 1% of the dog's expected adult weight. Even at the dogs current weight (8 lbs) the SportDog collar is well below the 5% of body weight recommendation (at 1.8%)

 

And the transmitter is only 1.6 oz, which is nice for the human partner.

 

Bill

 

 

[SeaConquest]

A 15 lb dog weights 240 oz.

 

5% of 240 oz is 12 oz.

 

The collar I recommended weighs 2.4 oz or 1% of the dog's expected adult weight. Even at the dogs current weight (8 lbs) the SportDog collar is well below the 5% of body weight recommendation (at 1.8%)

 

And the transmitter is only 1.6 oz, which is nice for the human partner.

 

Bill

 

Thanks, Bill. I don't think Cody will get much bigger than 10 lbs. He is almost 6 months old, and only weighs 8 lbs. His parents are 15-16 lbs., but he has obviously had growth issues. Do dogs get dx with failure to thrive? Athletically, he seems fine. He is definitely lower energy than my cockers were at this age. He also doesn't seem to know what stairs are, but I think many dogs are unsure of stairs at first. My last cocker was exceptionally athletic, and 25 lbs., so it is hard to make comparisons.

Edited May 25, 2016 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

He also snored a lot and excessively panted for no reason last night (haven't seen in it during the day though), but this morning he had about a minute of reverse sneezes. This makes me concerned about  Brachycephalic Airway Obstruction Syndrome as well.

[Spy Car]

I found two models that were recommended by the Deaf Dog Education Action Fund website. Both will work on a dog this size. I have never used one of these collars. Does anyone have any input on which of the two would be a better choice?

 

http://www.k9electronics.com/dog-training-collars/unleashed-technology-gentle-trainer-gt-3.html

 

and

 

http://shop.dogtra.com/280c/

 

My husband and I are very concerned that if we give the dog back, he will be euthanized. I am not sure that we can have that on our conscience. If there was any sign of risk to my children, I would send him back. But, from what I have seen, the biggest risk is to our pocketbook. My husband and I can live with that risk to help an animal.   

 

Never heard of K9 electronics brand (and for a "non-user" I follow the technology). It looks very clumsy in the transmitter design, I would not risk it when there are proven alternatives.

 

Dogtra collars, in contrast, have outstanding reputations. I could not tell from the link the size of the transmitter or the weight of the collar. These things do matter, especially if you use them routinely. If the size/weight of the Dogtra collar matches or is less that of the SportDog, I would not hesitate to get one.

 

I know the SportDog well. 

 

Bill

 

ETA: I spoke with the Gun Dog Supply people. They have another collar to put in the mix that's made by Dogtra, called an IQ Plus Small Dog Training Collar. At .25 lbs (4 oz) both Dogtra collars seem heavier than the SportDog. The IQ is less expensive than the one you linked to, and about the same as the SportDog.

 

http://www.gundogsupply.com/dogtra-iq-plus.html

 

I have no relationship with this company (other than being a very happy customer). People who've taken my advice and ordered from them have received great customer service, those who went Amazon or other all regretted it, paid more, and had no one to support the collars. They are complicated bits of technology and being able to call and speak with an expert human is invaluable.

[Spy Car]

Thanks, Bill. I don't think Cody will get much bigger than 10 lbs. He is almost 6 months old, and only weighs 8 lbs. His parents are 15-16 lbs., but he has obviously had growth issues. Do dogs get dx with failure to thrive? Athletically, he seems fine. He is definitely lower energy than my cockers were at this age. He also doesn't seem to know what stairs are, but I think many dogs are unsure of stairs at first. My last cocker was exceptionally athletic, and 25 lbs., so it is hard to make comparisons.

 

So at 10 lbs the 4 oz Dogtra or 2.4 oz SportDog collars are well below the 6.4 oz maximum recommendation.

 

I forgot to mention the Dogtra IQ lacks a "tone" (audible beep) function, that is useless for deaf dogs, but nice for dogs with normal hearing.

 

I'd have a trusted vet give you an appraisal of your dog's condition.

 

Stair climbing has been implicated as the most risky activity for puppies in increasing risks of hip dysplasia and other joint issues. The lack of energy is concerning, but stair climbing is not your friend with young dogs.

 

You've got a lot to deal with. Hope we're some help.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Yes. That is where I have been getting information. There is also a FB Page called Deaf Dogs Rock.

 

The information on e-collars is out-of-date. Do yourself a favor and get a collar though Gun Dog Supply. They are the leading merchants in the United States because they know the products, are available on the phone to provide advice and support, have great prices, and will return or exchange any collar you are not totally satisfied with. They are famous in the gun dog community for quality customer service. Really.

 

Bill

[zimom]

This is helpful. We have repeated over and over, most of it not filmed, but will continue to try.

 

I just tried whistling in bursts, with him wide awake, laying at my feet (his favorite spot). It seems like sometimes I will hit a tone that he hears, and he almost looks confused by it. It could just be coincidence because most of the time he just sits motionless no matter what the sound.

 

Could he only be hearing certain tones?  

 

Most people with hearing loss have SOME hearing and are rarely DEAF.  Generally they will hear lower pitches (think a tuba) even if they don't hear higher pitches such as birds.  SpyCar, if a dog is like a person and they have any hearing loss at all I can't imagine they would hear a dog whistle since they are so high pitched.  But again, I am NOT a dog audiologist :)

[zimom]

I am a little stumped that the breeder never realized the puppy was deaf in the 5 months she had him.  Did she really know he was deaf all along and hoped you wouldn't notice or would fall in love with him first and just agree to keep him and carry on?