I need a reality check regarding high school math

[Corraleno]

That's an interesting suggestion, and one I never would have thought of.  Thanks!

 

 

I edited my post to add another suggestion as well:

 

ETA: Another option could be combining 2 Great Courses that focus on the intersection of math and the visual world:  The Shape of Nature and Mathematics from the Visual World.  Those two courses = 60 half-hour lectures; add a 30 minute discussion or activity to each lecture and you have a half-credit course.

[Greta]

Yeah I think by now she knows what type of general area of study she is interested in.  Or at least knows what area she is not interested in.  Even if she 100% has the ability, another important factor is does she have the desire and drive to pursue that? 

 

The big push and tada now is STEM.  Everyone wants their kid to go into STEM.  Even my kids have picked up on that even though I've never told them what they should go into. 

 

I wonder if everyone is going to go into STEM what the competition for jobs will be when everyone graduates in STEM.  Maybe that's a ridiculous exaggeration and not a real concern, but I don't know.  There are still plenty of other decent areas to go into that aren't STEM.

 

Exactly - I know my husband is thinking that she has the ability to do calculus/programming/engineering/whatever if she'll just give it an honest effort, but he doesn't seem to grasp that the desire isn't there.  My husband is unusually intelligent, and sometimes I wonder if he became a physicist simply because he was capable, unlike most of us, and therefore he perceived it as the right thing to do.  I'm not sure it's what he *wanted* to do, though, because he has never been all that happy in his career.  He is brilliant at it, and successful.  But he doesn't enjoy it.  And my daughter has most certainly picked up on that!  

[SparklyUnicorn]

My kid goes to these game programming challenges.  He still has a lot to learn, but he is managing to create something at least.  So this past time there was another homeschooler there.  That kid showed up not because he is particularly into programming, but because he wanted to offer his art skills.  My son said his art skills are amazing.  So even in STEM there is a need for non STEM skills. 

[Arcadia]

As I understood it the question was not merely calc in 12th but the math leading up to that, but maybe I have my math order wrong. For us it went Alg, Alg II, Geometry, Trig/Pre-Calc. So OP's daughter would need one more course to keep options open.

PreCalc is also offered in community college, so I was thinking no doors are closed even if OP's daughter does not want to do PreCalc this fall which would be her 11th and final year of high school if she choose to graduate early.

 

If OP's daughter opt for a transfer program in CC, I'm sure the CC has the scope and sequence for the transfer programs from CC to state U.

[Greta]

As I understood it the question was not merely calc in 12th but the math leading up to that, but maybe I have my math order wrong. For us it went Alg, Alg II, Geometry, Trig/Pre-Calc. So OP's daughter would need one more course to keep options open.

 

If I'm mistaken forgive me.

 

And just to add... calc is not only for stem. Understanding statistics in order to use data in decision making is really important and that's why it's required for a lot of non-STEM master's degrees.

 

I do not think that only humanities majors need to take ethics and metaphysics, either.

 

I think the confusion was my fault, because I was thinking that if she's not going to take calculus, there would also be no reason to bother with a trig/pre-calc course.  But that's not really the case, given that the ACT/SAT will include trig and pre-calc.  So I was lumping the two together when I shouldn't have been.

[Greta]

PreCalc is also offered in community college, so I was thinking no doors are closed even if OP's daughter does not want to do PreCalc this fall which would be her 11th and final year of high school if she choose to graduate early.

 

If OP's daughter opt for a transfer program in CC, I'm sure the CC has the scope and sequence for the transfer programs from CC to state U.

 

 

Yes, this!  I'm not exactly the best algebra teacher, so I really don't think I should tackle anything higher.  So IF she does end up taking those courses, it will be at the CC.  So it's not going to hurt her that it's on her college transcript rather than her high school transcript, right?  

 

And I know a lot of people are cautioning that we shouldn't have her take a break in math and have to pick it up again later, because that's hard.  And part of me agrees that's a really good point.  But another part of me thinks that with time and maturity she would be better equipped to handle it.  

[Arcadia]

So even in STEM there is a need for non STEM skills.

Biology has lots of detailed drawings which was my other reason for avoiding higher level biology, the main reason is memorizing.

 

Architecture which oldest has as a possible career choice requires lots of drawing.

 

Computer graphics was a compulsory core module for my engineering degree, which was easy since my spatial skills were strong and the computer made up for my fine motor skills since I could key in coordinates or activate snap to grid when drawing. I'm hopeless with a pencil but great with a digitizer.

 

My former graphics engineers (some from electrical engineering, some from mechanical engineering) use the big Wacom digitizer tablets. Some of the aerospace engineers use those too for blueprints. The tablets they used are about folio size.

[katilac]

Thank you!  I had no idea that there was such a thing as life skills coaching for things like test anxiety!  How would I go about finding that in my area?

 

You can google key words like "My City" plus cognitive behavior therapy, solutions based therapy, life coach. 

 

Your insurance company might have a list to start with. 

[Arcadia]

But that's not really the case, given that the ACT/SAT will include trig and pre-calc.

My joker did ACT before finishing geometry and algebra 2. There was no precalc, and the trig tested was in algebra 1 and 2 for California textbooks.

 

For the new SAT, geometry is reduced and the trig required is in geometry and algebra 2 mainly. Link has the topics so you can cross check with your curriculum.

https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/about/alignment/math/additional-topics-in-math

 

It is always good to run through a practice test to know what the gaps are for ACT and SAT regardless of math choice because curriculum mappings from different publishers are different.

 

ACT

http://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/Preparing-for-the-ACT.pdf

 

SAT

https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat/practice/full-length-practice-tests

 

Is the CC class a single semester class? Maybe she can take that in Fall and do a precalc class in Spring.

[Greta]

My joker did ACT before finishing geometry and algebra 2. There was no precalc, and the trig tested was in algebra 1 and 2 for California textbooks.

 

For the new SAT, geometry is reduced and the trig required is in geometry and algebra 2 mainly. Link has the topics so you can cross check with your curriculum.

https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/about/alignment/math/additional-topics-in-math

 

It is always good to run through a practice test to know what the gaps are for ACT and SAT regardless of math choice because curriculum mappings from different publishers are different.

 

ACT

http://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/Preparing-for-the-ACT.pdf

 

SAT

https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat/practice/full-length-practice-tests

 

Is the CC class a single semester class? Maybe she can take that in Fall and do a precalc class in Spring.

 

 

Thanks!  Yes, I definitely want to do some practice tests with her first, given how nervous the whole idea makes her.  I wasn't really thinking about this stuff too much yet, but since she wants to graduate a year early, I guess I'd better get off my butt and get it done.

[wapiti]

I think the confusion was my fault, because I was thinking that if she's not going to take calculus, there would also be no reason to bother with a trig/pre-calc course.  But that's not really the case, given that the ACT/SAT will include trig and pre-calc.  So I was lumping the two together when I shouldn't have been.

 

There's a little trig, but no precalc on the new SAT, as far as I know (I don't know about the ACT).

 

The main reason I'd want trig/precalc is that it's a final year of high school math.  There may be some disagreement on this, but I tend to look at the point between precalc and calc as the dividing line between high school and college level math.  (See, e.g., this thread today about money spent on remedial classes in college http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/604639-high-cost-of-college-remedial-courses/ ).  Perhaps this doesn't matter at all if she'd take the course at the CC regardless of whether it's before or after high school graduation.  When to graduate and whether to apply to a 4-yr school as a freshman or a transfer is a question for another thread, but something to think through very carefully.

 

The problem solving issue is a tough one.  Could she approach a problem as more of a puzzle?  How much patience does she have with herself when she's beginning an art piece, for example?  Just something to ponder.  (My dd got over the problem solving hump with aops years ago and more recently with math club/math contests that don't count, but one of my other kids still struggles with not knowing what to do immediately when he sees a problem - he attends school.)

[RootAnn]

I have my own artistic child (who also writes). She abhors math and shoots eye daggers at anyone who suggests any similarities or interrelatedness between math and art.

 

It is too early to know where she will end up with math, but I always remember the story of a WTM daughter who went to college for art and flipped to math or engineering. No one knows where these kids will end up.

[kiana]

I've only skimmed, so forgive me if it's already been mentioned.

 

Another option would be to take college algebra and then stats at the CC. She may be more on board with this if you discuss how it will transfer to college -- usually this combination will fulfill college general education requirements, and then she will not have to take math at college.

 

The biggest argument for taking math senior year is that students who take a year off math tend to place lower (beginning/intermediate algebra) and struggle more in their required math classes at college. This is compounded by the fact that students who take a year off math tend to dislike it and so put off math until their jr/sr year of college, by which time they really have forgotten everything.

[FaithManor]

An interesting read for those students and parents who would like to see the parallels between art, music, and mathematics is "Goedel, Escher, and Bach; The Eternal Golden Braid". It is not an easy read, but for the fascinated student, well worth wading through as it explores the relationship of these subjects within the context of cognitive science. I loved it in college!

 

http://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461418064&sr=8-1&keywords=Goedel+Escher+and+Bach

[Greta]

I've only skimmed, so forgive me if it's already been mentioned.

 

Another option would be to take college algebra and then stats at the CC. She may be more on board with this if you discuss how it will transfer to college -- usually this combination will fulfill college general education requirements, and then she will not have to take math at college.

 

The biggest argument for taking math senior year is that students who take a year off math tend to place lower (beginning/intermediate algebra) and struggle more in their required math classes at college. This is compounded by the fact that students who take a year off math tend to dislike it and so put off math until their jr/sr year of college, by which time they really have forgotten everything.

 

 

If it will help her avoid more math later, she'd probably be all for it.  Thank you for the suggestion!

[katilac]

I have my own artistic child (who also writes). She abhors math and shoots eye daggers at anyone who suggests any similarities or interrelatedness between math and art.

 

It is too early to know where she will end up with math, but I always remember the story of a WTM daughter who went to college for art and flipped to math or engineering. No one knows where these kids will end up.

 

My dd met a girl at orientation who did a fine arts path in high school but signed up for the aerospace engineering major! 

[AngieW in Texas]

I would continue with math just because she is going to have to take a math course in college. She might as well take math her senior year to keep the math that she does know fresh.

 

I would recommend taking statistics. Most colleges require a minimum of either college algebra or statistics. Statistics is actually useful and relevant to everybody while the skills learned in college algebra are generally only going to be used by people going further with math.

[scoutingmom]

The online course description isn't very detailed, but here it is:

 

Presents the mathematical basis of geometric practices used in structural and decorative design. Surveys the major historical approaches to geometric study: Euclidean, descriptive, transformational, combinatorial, and ornamental. Compares aesthetic and technological issues in cultural context.

 

The prerequisite is Math 1310 Intermediate Algebra or equivalent placement score.

 

ETA: She isn't crazy about any math, but she enjoyed geometry a lot more than algebra, so I think she'd enjoy this course a LOT more than trig/pre-calc.

That sounds great for her from the description!

 

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