Navigating the Transition from School to the Workplace

[OnMyOwn]

I just listened to the above-titled podcast on NPR. https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-diane-rehm-show/id160993127?mt=2&i=366841491

 

I found it helpful, but a bit overwhelming and depressing. The gist of the discussion was that a college education is not enough and colleges need to help kids make the transition to the workplace. There weren't a ton of specific suggestions, but they did mention the importance of internships, leadership positions, sports, and having "grit". I basically walked away feeling like I need to shift some of our focus from academics to making sure both kids get work experience through high school and college. That has been what my gut has been telling me lately and something I was already in the process of working on. I'd love to hear other thoughts on it if you have the time to listen.

[Bluegoat]

I wonder if this is something that colleges are necessarily good at?  I have a university degree as well as a diploma from a community college, and while both made efforts to help with careers, the latter was much more sucessful.  The reason being, I think, that here in Canada CCs are essentially training in job skills in a very direct way - you become an apprentice welder, or get a qualification to do office admin, or whatever - they can really hook people up or give advice about jobs.

 

At the university, outside of professional programs, that isn't so much the case, and I didn't know many people who were really helped much by their career counseling services. 

 

I do think knowing how to behave, what to expect, in the workplace is a big help. I don't think being an employee is the only way to do it - being self-employed, even mowing lawns and such, can help I think.  I also am not sure that internships are necessarily much better than paid but less "prestigious" work.  It depends on various things but I know that in terms of real work skills I gained more from being a hotdog vendor or office stock-person than in the internships I did for my library work.    I even learned a lot from the jobs I had that were failures in one way or another.

 

Volunteering I think can go either way.

[OnMyOwn]

I guess I dont know anyone that doesnt work at some point during the high school to college years. Its been difficult to find anything besides working for a relative or as a lifeguard or camp counselor for an under 18, but after 18 all of my children and their friends have found jobs. Some learned to line that up over winter break, but I dont know any college students that are sitting home over summer break. They havent all found internships related to their major, but they have all found something and learned workplace skills.

 

I am in one of the zip codes designated for poor; the school district replaced its IB/AP offerings with school-to-work programs app 8 years ago. There are partnerships with local businesses and they give students short internships. They may, for ex, work at the grocery store or the bank. The school directly teaches skills needed for the workplace such as showing up on time, speaking and dressing professionally, filling out a W4, a 1040ez, how to find a permanent job etc. It seems to be quite helpful..the majority are going on to higher ed while working part time.

Well, I think in some areas it is very hard for teens to get jobs. That's not really the case where we live, but I know others deal with that. Also, the kids are so overloaded with all the APs and volunteering and extracurriculars in this heavily competitive environment for college admissions, they probably don't have time to work. If they do, I don't know how without completely burning out. But, good for you for getting your kids working. That seems to be something that is pretty important for getting them ready for college and it's not something I had even realized was missing from my home schooling plans until pretty recently. I gained a lot of work experience as a teen because I was chomping at the bit for my independence and wanted the money, but my son is not really looking for those things yet.

[OnMyOwn]

I wonder if this is something that colleges are necessarily good at? I have a university degree as well as a diploma from a community college, and while both made efforts to help with careers, the latter was much more sucessful. The reason being, I think, that here in Canada CCs are essentially training in job skills in a very direct way - you become an apprentice welder, or get a qualification to do office admin, or whatever - they can really hook people up or give advice about jobs.

 

At the university, outside of professional programs, that isn't so much the case, and I didn't know many people who were really helped much by their career counseling services.

 

I do think knowing how to behave, what to expect, in the workplace is a big help. I don't think being an employee is the only way to do it - being self-employed, even mowing lawns and such, can help I think. I also am not sure that internships are necessarily much better than paid but less "prestigious" work. It depends on various things but I know that in terms of real work skills I gained more from being a hotdog vendor or office stock-person than in the internships I did for my library work. I even learned a lot from the jobs I had that were failures in one way or another.

 

Volunteering I think can go either way.

I think some are better than others. That was one of the points in the discussion -- that is important to find a college that will help students get internships and "transfer their academic skills to the workplace". They said quite a huge chunk of funds has been set aside by the government to start a database so that in a few years, the data will be out there showing which schools and programs led to jobs, and even more specifically which jobs and what the salary is. They commented that much of the info out there right now is neither very accessible nor even accurate.

[OnMyOwn]

That's one of the reasons ds is at Mines instead of Boulder. He was MUCH more likely to get an internship as a freshman at Mines. In fact, he did. The company is owned by some Mines grads and they are very flexible about finals and AF commitments. He's had some other offers, but stayed where he is because of the flexibility.

 

Oldest has been playing paying gigs since high school, plus runs her own business. She still plays a lot of weddings, teaches, is in several professional orchestras, etc. She'll be concertmaster for Eklund Opera next weekend.

 

Next one had no choice about her employment--the Navy is pretty insistent on that!

 

Middle dd has had a lot of jobs--her current job at the ski area is done for the year, but she still has her campus job.

 

My oldest four all had county jobs at one point or another, running heavy equipment. My kids know how to work!

Sounds like you and your kids are totally on the ball. I have heard that internships are good to do, but this podcast really drilled it home just how important they are. Unfortunately, I keep hearing about kids who are very good students still having to compete for the few internships available. That is a concern,

[OnMyOwn]

This is why dd18 is still living at home. She doesn't have to work for pay, so she's able to intern 2 days a week at an organization in her prospective area of employment (child protection) as well as gaining her degree. The intern work is extremely valuable for getting her used to being in a professional workplace, and she's already co-running programs out in the community, plus running a supported playgroup, as well as building up a network of mentors and contacts.

 

She's worked for pay since she was 12, so this is definitely adding to those skills, which are OK so far as they go...this is much, much better because it's more highly targeted. It will make her eventual job applications stand out from all those with the same degrees but no experience in the field. One of the catch 22's of graduate employment is that employers want experience, but won't employ you without it so that you can get experience. Anything that circumvents that loop is valuable, imo.

 

She will be 20, with a degree and 3 years experience working in the field. It's worth living at home for, imo.

Your dd is lucky she is able to do that. According to the podcast, one of the big pitfalls was for new graduates to take a job soon after graduation that doesn't require a degree, such as working at Starbucks or being a nanny, thinking that it will be temporary. Many must do this since they can't easily get a job in their field and have to pay off student loans. Then, a couple of years go by and now they are competing with a new set of grads who have a new set of skills and they lose out on increasing their income during the most important years of their career. I've heard of this happening to so many kids.

[Arcadia]

. Unfortunately, I keep hearing about kids who are very good students still having to compete for the few internships available. That is a concern,

All the interns at the tech companies my hubby worked at were recommended by their lecturers or by current employees. Teach/guide your kids to network and advocate for themselves while in high school, can be paid work or volunteer work.

Internship while in college was where I had to polish my skills at navigating office politics. I worked in my college while doing my undergrad for the fun of it and learned office politics university admin version.

 

If your kids have a LinkedIn or Facebook account, keep it as professional as possible.

 

ETA:

One of my interest groups on Facebook just posted an ad for paid summer intern in programming for current undergrads for her company.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Arcadia

[Brenda in MA]

I haven't had a chance to listen to the link you provided, but I have a couple of older kids who have gone through/are going through this transition.  I personally did not believe in having my kids work outside-the-home jobs during the school year while they were in high school.  In the summers, they worked if they could find something.  During the school year, I felt their time was better spent on their academics and extra curricular activities.  As a result of the focus on academics, they were both able to get excellent scholarships that well exceeded the amount of money they could have earned at a minimum wage job during high school.  I know that if they had worked significant hours during high school, their learning/grades would have suffered.

 

Once they hit college, the story was entirely different.  My dh and I pushed both of them to look for summer jobs and insisted that they do something, even if it was minimum wage.  Their colleges have been some help with leads for major-related jobs, but the student has to go out of his way and put in a lot of effort to land something.  Family and friend connections have helped both of them on occasion as well.  When my oldest had trouble finding a major-related summer job, we steered him towards taking a semester off and seeking a longer term coop job, which was easier to find.  In the long run, it turned out to be very worthwhile in him getting a full time job after graduation. 

 

During his senior year in college, he discovered that the only ones of his friends who got full-time job offers were the ones who had worked major-related coops or internships.  Employers didn't care about experience working in fast food, etc.  I've also found similar outcomes with friends' children.  The ones who cruised through college and spent their summers at the beach with friends or taking an extra college course were not able to find full-time jobs in their major.

 

I personally think that the colleges can be helpful in connecting students with internships, research, etc., but that the onus has to be on the student, and often on their parents to motivate them to look.  My kids have both complained about having to work their summers when some of their college friends are traveling or at the beach.  Too bad, so sad.  At the end of the day, my oldest is happy and thankful now that we made him work, and we're happy too, since he is supporting himself!

 

Best wishes to you as you help your youngsters navigate the final stages towards adulthood!

Brenda

 

 

 

 

 

[Ravin]

I am in one of the zip codes designated for poor; the school district replaced its IB/AP offerings with school-to-work programs app 8 years ago. There are partnerships with local businesses and they give students short internships. They may, for ex, work at the grocery store or the bank. The school directly teaches skills needed for the workplace such as showing up on time, speaking and dressing professionally, filling out a W4, a 1040ez, how to find a permanent job etc. It seems to be quite helpful..the majority are going on to higher ed while working part time.

 

As I had been one of those kids who was academically bright/accelerated, but lacking in what my mom called "common sense," the voc ed program I enrolled in my senior year of high school (entirely because I had run out of challenging  academic options in my high school--they had no math or English offerings for me that year), together with working part time in a fast food restaurant with an unpleasant former Army drill sergeant for a manager, probably did more to prepare me for adult success--including succeeding at college later--than anything else in the high school curriculum.

 

That said, I think it's outrageous and ridiculous that your local school district DROPPED IB/AP offerings. Both IB or AP AND school-to-work/voc ed options should be available. Some students could use both; others will be better served by one or the other.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's an awkward time for sure.  It's like you need a job to gain experience, but a lot of companies want someone with experience.  I will encourage my kids to consider stuff like internships.  That's a good foot in the door sometimes or at least experience one can put on a resume.  I worked a lot, but always unrelated jobs and jobs I didn't think would look impressive on a resume.  I don't know if it helped when I got a "real" job or if I was just lucky or if it's really not as bad as people claim. 

 

 

[OnMyOwn]

All the interns at the tech companies my hubby worked at were recommended by their lecturers or by current employees. Teach/guide your kids to network and advocate for themselves while in high school, can be paid work or volunteer work.

Internship while in college was where I had to polish my skills at navigating office politics. I worked in my college while doing my undergrad for the fun of it and learned office politics university admin version.

 

If your kids have a LinkedIn or Facebook account, keep it as professional as possible.

 

ETA:

One of my interest groups on Facebook just posted an ad for paid summer intern in programming for current undergrads for her company.

And you bring up another point that they mentioned in the talk -- the importance of learning to network. As an introvert, networking is a word that has always made me cringe, but I would think with all the social media out there, it would be a lot easier today. Of course, neither if my kids has a Facebook account and I'm not sure I want to encourage that at this age. But, maybe I should.

[hornblower]

 

 

At the university, outside of professional programs, that isn't so much the case, and I didn't know many people who were really helped much by their career counseling services. 

 

 

Canada used to have COSEP at uni - the career oriented summer employment programs.  I got my job for the federal government that way. First it was a summer position while still at school (unionized with benefits woot)  but once you got your foot in the door, you could compete for a bunch of other positions there & I went to work for the feds after I graduated. 

 

They've changed it a bit and now there's a summer employment grant that employers apply for in order to hire university students.  It's a program dd's employer participates in (she works there year round - p/t during school year). The employees have to be f/t students and must be returning to school in the fall.  The employer gets more points/money if the job they're filling is linked to the applicant's education so frequently it's quite closely tailored to field of study. The current gov't is apparently tossing more money at this program & many provinces have their own sister programs. 

 

The university student job offices can get people connected through these programs.  Co-op still exists too but I have always been wary of that option as it seems to inevitably extend the education by a year ... 

 

[OnMyOwn]

I haven't had a chance to listen to the link you provided, but I have a couple of older kids who have gone through/are going through this transition. I personally did not believe in having my kids work outside-the-home jobs during the school year while they were in high school. In the summers, they worked if they could find something. During the school year, I felt their time was better spent on their academics and extra curricular activities. As a result of the focus on academics, they were both able to get excellent scholarships that well exceeded the amount of money they could have earned at a minimum wage job during high school. I know that if they had worked significant hours during high school, their learning/grades would have suffered.

 

Once they hit college, the story was entirely different. My dh and I pushed both of them to look for summer jobs and insisted that they do something, even if it was minimum wage. Their colleges have been some help with leads for major-related jobs, but the student has to go out of his way and put in a lot of effort to land something. Family and friend connections have helped both of them on occasion as well. When my oldest had trouble finding a major-related summer job, we steered him towards taking a semester off and seeking a longer term coop job, which was easier to find. In the long run, it turned out to be very worthwhile in him getting a full time job after graduation.

 

During his senior year in college, he discovered that the only ones of his friends who got full-time job offers were the ones who had worked major-related coops or internships. Employers didn't care about experience working in fast food, etc. I've also found similar outcomes with friends' children. The ones who cruised through college and spent their summers at the beach with friends or taking an extra college course were not able to find full-time jobs in their major.

 

I personally think that the colleges can be helpful in connecting students with internships, research, etc., but that the onus has to be on the student, and often on their parents to motivate them to look. My kids have both complained about having to work their summers when some of their college friends are traveling or at the beach. Too bad, so sad. At the end of the day, my oldest is happy and thankful now that we made him work, and we're happy too, since he is supporting himself!

 

Best wishes to you as you help your youngsters navigate the final stages towards adulthood!

Brenda

Brenda, my son has only worked a couple of hours here and there assisting with an event during the school year because I've wanted him to focus on his school work, and frankly, that takes most of his time. He did work last summer and I'm hoping he will this summer as well, but we're going to be away enough that I'm not sure he will.

 

Did your kids have any trouble finding internships? I guess this is all pretty new information to to me because while I knew kids were doing internships and that they were important, I was envisioning it being just one internship near their senior year. That was another point in the talk I listened to -- college is no longer a time for exploration and self-discovery. In the last year, as my kids have started gettting older, I've become really aware of how much they are submerged in their school work and have realized that, especially for my son at his age, he needs to be exposed to more experiences and that getting a job right now may be more important than anything academic he is going to do over the next year or two as far as contributing to his personal growth and ability to function in the world. But, he's also got to have to time to get school done and it takes him forever, so it will be a balancing act. In the past, he has done volunteer work, which is much easier to limit, so maybe I'll encourage him to do that for a few hours a week during the school year instead of a paid job.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Some people are wildly creative though.  My husband's employer has a yearly company wide week long series of meetings and activities.  One of the events is a night time party where spouses or S/Os are invited.  One guy took a friend instead of a S/O.  The friend was going to graduate from college soon.  He spent all night asking various people what they did to land their first jobs and if they had any advice for him.  Good for him!

 

My husband's employer is very generous towards their interns. They pay them $20 an hour! 

[hornblower]

On a personal story - dd volunteered at a place for year, then 3 yrs ago applied for a summer job there, then got a contract part-time through the school year/ full-time in the summer job. It has been an excellent experience with tons of growth and development both personally and professionally (& she's ended up with a very healthy bank account) 

I'm ticked my ds has no interest in that field because I was really hoping he'd just slide into this place as well LOL. I really want him to have a similar opportunity but we haven't found it yet. I have come to believe that volunteering &/or working during school are pretty important for my kids. If nothing else, ds needs an eye opener on hard hours & little pay so that hopefully he's a bit more motivated to work & succeed at school. 

[Luckymama]

My olde kids have learned that networking and internships are very, very important. Younger dd will be studying in a field (or fields, knowing her) for which interrnships help land post-graduation jobs. We are paying close attention to where current students intern and where new graduates work while visiting colleges.

 

Ds, who graduated last May in computer science, fell into an on-campus job in IT second-semester freshman year because someone he knew from a 4 week summer cs camp job recommended him for the job. He worked there during semesters until graduation and during all breaks until the summer before senior year. He had his pick of internships (literally, had multiple offers) for that summer because of the combination of academics and work experience. Ds also headed a university Linux users group/club and maintained that group's LinkedIn page. He also maintained his own professional LinkedIn with links to all of his projects. Ds had job offers from his internship and from a government-affiliated lab by December senior year. He was <thisclose> to signing with the lab (security clearances and all) when he received an offer to interview with a company interested in his Linux experiences who found him through his LinkedIn page. After a series of phone interviews, he was flown cross country for several days of interviews. He's now a Site Reliability Engineer with a major social media company who gets offers from recruiters every week.

 

Older dd is a junior. She has worked in retail unrelated to her English-French-major-with-theatre-minor since summer after freshman year, continuing during the school year. She is very active in a student-run theatre group--acting, directing, and producing. Dd learned about a directing internship at Our State Shakespeare Festival, combining her loves of Shakespeare and theatre, and applied online hoping for an interview call. Meanwhile someone she knows through the group asked her to take her place at a meeting. Dd walked into the meeting and was greeted by three of her English profs and one theatre prof. She learned that she had joined the university-wide committee as the only student representative for all events surrounding the display of a Shakespeare First Folio this fall! She participated in the conversations and networked hard during the social time (she called dh afterward to brag because she is typically very reserved), meeting the heads of all the theatre groups in this area including the head of the Shakespeare Festival. The very next day he called her for an interview. She was selected out of the 100+ applicants for the internship :) This Friday she'll be meeting with the head and some theatre group members to discuss her proposal for a free Shakespeare performance on campus. In two weeks she'll be attending a meet-and-greet for wealthy donors to the festival. Meanwhile, she is involved in all the planning for two months of university and community activities, including school outreach, when the First Folio is on campus.

 

Dd still doesn't know what she wants to do after graduation. All this networking may provide additional opportunities. It's definitely boosting her professional social media presence.

[Matryoshka]

During his senior year in college, he discovered that the only ones of his friends who got full-time job offers were the ones who had worked major-related coops or internships.  Employers didn't care about experience working in fast food, etc.  I've also found similar outcomes with friends' children.  The ones who cruised through college and spent their summers at the beach with friends or taking an extra college course were not able to find full-time jobs in their major.

 

This was my experience way back in the day.  I got out of college, and my summer experience working retail was worth zip.  Nada.  I graduated cum laude from the honors program with a major in international business and was fully trilingual, and all anyone wanted to know was how many WPM I could type.  My single biggest mistake in college was not doing some kind of internship or coop (I did exchanges abroad - twice - that didn't help).  I ended up having to take on temp work (fortunately, I could actually type), and then worked my way up from admin.  People with previous job experience could start higher (or people with connections and/or name-brand schools - a friend who majored in Anthropology at Amherst was able to go right to a management job in the company her dad worked at).  Dh on the other hand went to a coop school and had three job offers on the table the minute he graduated.

 

Since name-brand schools are not in my kids' futures, I've been emphasizing the importance of internships or coops and also connections - especially ones they make themselves - and then leverage those to network.  I learned networking after I got out of school, and never had trouble finding a job after that.

[Gwen in VA]

Finding the right internship / experience is a delicate dance. And there is no sure path.

 

I know one young man, a top student at a top-20 LAC, who was convinced he was headed towards grad school in a specific field which values research more than work experience. Due to a shortage of jobs in the field and at the recommendation of his profs he only applied to programs in the top ten and was rejected. (Some of the programs had acceptance rates below 5%!)

 

Since he didn't get into grad school, he needed a job. His research experience, geared towards helping him in grad school, was considered all but useless by the companies at which he was able to get interviews.

 

He is okay now, but he spent several years trying to move forward, despite the research experience and being Phi Beta Kappa, etc. What he thought was the right way to move forward proved not to be.

 

The best laid schemes o' mice an' men gang aft agley.

[Brenda in MA]

Did your kids have any trouble finding internships? I guess this is all pretty new information to to me because while I knew kids were doing internships and that they were important, I was envisioning it being just one internship near their senior year.

 

My oldest did have a hard time find an internship.  He started looking at the job fairs at his school his freshman year.  Realistically, we didn't think he'd have a shot after freshman year, and he didn't -- ended up scooping ice cream.  After sophomore year when he couldn't find anything, we got worried.  That's when we advised that he take a semester off and work a coop.  He interviewed for many coops fall of senior year, and he finally got one.  He is pretty introverted and doesn't interview well, so it was a hard process, but good experience.  Once he had that experience, he was able to find a full-time job after graduation. 

 

I think it would probably be fine to just have a major-related job after junior year for good experience, the problem is -- what if that is your plan and it doesn't happen?  At that point, you're almost too late to do anything other than finish senior year and graduate.  At that point it would be too late to late to look for a coop in most places.

 

My younger son is just finishing his sophomore year.  He is majoring in physics and applied for at least 6 different research opportunities over Christmas break for this coming summer.  He ended up getting two offers.  So he fared a bit better.  He goes to a smaller college, and his advisor has been bugging the kids (esp. current juniors) to apply to at least 15 research opportunities.  They also hire some students on campus and give preference to those who have tried to find outside opportunities and could not.  In this case, the small school is doing a much better job (IMHO) of helping the students find career-related summer work.

 

I would suggest that when you do the college search, if this is a concern, than it would be important to investigate how good the prospective colleges are with helping their students find major-related work.  Good for you for thinking about this stuff ahead of time!

 

HTH,

Brenda

 

[OnMyOwn]

My oldest did have a hard time find an internship. He started looking at the job fairs at his school his freshman year. Realistically, we didn't think he'd have a shot after freshman year, and he didn't -- ended up scooping ice cream. After sophomore year when he couldn't find anything, we got worried. That's when we advised that he take a semester off and work a coop. He interviewed for many coops fall of senior year, and he finally got one. He is pretty introverted and doesn't interview well, so it was a hard process, but good experience. Once he had that experience, he was able to find a full-time job after graduation.

 

I think it would probably be fine to just have a major-related job after junior year for good experience, the problem is -- what if that is your plan and it doesn't happen? At that point, you're almost too late to do anything other than finish senior year and graduate. At that point it would be too late to late to look for a coop in most places.

 

My younger son is just finishing his sophomore year. He is majoring in physics and applied for at least 6 different research opportunities over Christmas break for this coming summer. He ended up getting two offers. So he fared a bit better. He goes to a smaller college, and his advisor has been bugging the kids (esp. current juniors) to apply to at least 15 research opportunities. They also hire some students on campus and give preference to those who have tried to find outside opportunities and could not. In this case, the small school is doing a much better job (IMHO) of helping the students find career-related summer work.

 

I would suggest that when you do the college search, if this is a concern, than it would be important to investigate how good the prospective colleges are with helping their students find major-related work. Good for you for thinking about this stuff ahead of time!

 

HTH,

Brenda

 

Thanks, Brenda. I haven't really heard of working at a coop for college students, What is that and how is it different than an internship?

[Bluegoat]

I think some are better than others. That was one of the points in the discussion -- that is important to find a college that will help students get internships and "transfer their academic skills to the workplace". They said quite a huge chunk of funds has been set aside by the government to start a database so that in a few years, the data will be out there showing which schools and programs led to jobs, and even more specifically which jobs and what the salary is. They commented that much of the info out there right now is neither very accessible nor even accurate.

 

It strikes me though that this is a very job-oriented view of university that doesn't really apply equally to all areas of study, or maybe even especially to the core areas of study.  I mean, people I studied with who have the same degree as me, in classical philosophy, have a variety of jobs - but to talk about transferring skills to the workplace, or finding internships based on that - I don't know.  I can think of some things, but it strikes me that the student would have to have a very clear idea of what was required for his own purposes.

[Bluegoat]

Canada used to have COSEP at uni - the career oriented summer employment programs.  I got my job for the federal government that way. First it was a summer position while still at school (unionized with benefits woot)  but once you got your foot in the door, you could compete for a bunch of other positions there & I went to work for the feds after I graduated. 

 

They've changed it a bit and now there's a summer employment grant that employers apply for in order to hire university students.  It's a program dd's employer participates in (she works there year round - p/t during school year). The employees have to be f/t students and must be returning to school in the fall.  The employer gets more points/money if the job they're filling is linked to the applicant's education so frequently it's quite closely tailored to field of study. The current gov't is apparently tossing more money at this program & many provinces have their own sister programs. 

 

The university student job offices can get people connected through these programs.  Co-op still exists too but I have always been wary of that option as it seems to inevitably extend the education by a year ... 

 

 

Yes, these kinds of programs were around when I was a student, and I know a number of organizations that hire in summer this way now too.  And there are usually at least decent summer jobs.

 

Quite a lot of them though, while they might be a good addition on a resume, aren't right in the student's area, or don't help them network.  And some - and I think this is true of internships generally - are essentially taking advantage of cheap labour but not giving much in the way of real skills.

 

These were always advertised through the university student emplyment office, but really stundents largely ended up going through the lists themselves.  It didn't seem to me that the advisors did anything much other than coalate the jobs and such - if you asked them, they would pretty much come out with the same list of possibilities a student going through the offerings would.

[Nan in Mass]

For those of you with children who aren't studying some sort of career, who don't know what they want to do after school and are majoring in something they like (English or history or biology or whatever), it may be a bit more difficult to come up with relevant work experience.  I've seen two ways around this now, amongst friends and relatives of my children.  One way is to work a non-relevant job during college and then after graduation, continue working in that non-relevant job part-time while either volunteering or taking an unpaid internship in something relevant for a year, meanwhile making oneself indispensable or failing that, networking like mad.  Another is to join clubs during college that allow one to organize and run things like volunteer efforts, in other words, get organizational, management, and leadership skills, and make contacts.  Another is to join a building-leadership-skills group.  My niece joined one that among other things, taught everyone in the group how to write a grant and helped everyone to create their own paying summer job.

 

You can see if your state has listings of internships for certain majors the state is trying to encourage.  A state that is trying to encourage growth in the biotech industry may have listings of state-sponsored internships for biology or chemistry majors.

 

Any of these options help with choosing a direction after graduation as well.  The student will probably at least figure out some things they don't want to do.  "I never want to work with children again; they are such little beasts."  "I want an indoor job where there are no bugs."  "I get depressed faced with sick people day in and day out."  "People annoy me.  I need a job where I don't have to interact with them."  "I hate computers."   "I really want to help people."

 

Notice that all of these involve pretty much creating a job for oneself.  This involves watching for opportunities and seizing them.  This is sometimes easier to do in small companies than in large ones because the structure tends to be more rigid in large companies.  The student is probably going to need a fair bit of coaching in order to do this.  Coaching during the job can be important, too, if you have a late bloomer like I do - reminding them to thank anyone who helped them with networking, writing a resume, staying on topic in meetings, confronting the boss with something stupid he's done in private not public, allowing for heavy traffic days so as to be on time, dressing appropriately, helping to make sure the right stuff is in the right place at the right time, remembering to network, etc.

 

We've been lucky.  Our children have known before they went to college what career they wanted.  Their majors are basically career training and some work training is built into the graduation requirements.  The rest they got by networking.

 

Just in case it helps someone, here is how a recent instance of that networking worked.  (Notice how MANY PHONE CALLS were exchanged, how involved we were (we have late bloomers, remember?), and how MUCH PERSISTENCE was required.) Both middle and oldest need summer work this summer.  Middle one just got a job by networking as follows:  We (the parents) know someone from church who might be looking for summer help in a relevant field.  We approach them at church and ask.  They say they are retired now, their son has taken over the business, but now is about when the hiring happens, give him a call.  We give this information, along with the address and phone number, to oldest (who happens to be home and therefore able to get to these people easily).  Oldest tries calling.  No answer.  A few days later, oldest goes to the address, walks in, and introduces himself.  The right person isn't there, but he is given some encouragement and a phone number.  Oldest calls.  No answer.  We tell oldest to keep trying and remind him how often he leaves his own phone at home.  Oldest says ok and calls again.  Still no answer, but the next day, a very apologetic person calls back.  They talk.  The job and pay are discussed.  The two have quite a lot in common.  Oldest says he has to think about it, he'll get back to them.  Oldest tells dad he doesn't think he wants this job but dad was right, it might be perfect for middle one.  Dad agrees.  Oldest calls middle one and says do you want a job, I think I can get you one.  Middle one is terribly excited, having panicked because all the companies that normally hire summer coops don't appear to be hiring this year.  Oldest says stand by with resume ready to send and keep your phone charged up. (Dad did resume with middle one when he first started to apply for coops and middle one took it to one of a professor to check over, just to be sure there weren't industry differences since dad is in a different industry altogether.)  Middle one calls home and says oldest just called with a possible job do we think he should go for it.  We ask him to double check the college's coop requirements to make sure this will satisfy them.  Middle one goes off and does some research, then calls back and says this job will qualify.  We coach middle one on how to double check the requirements with the people with the job.  Oldest calls people with job back and says the job isn't quite what he is looking for but his brother would be perfect and proceeds to why (having been coached by us when he said this is what he wanted to do).  They say tell brother to send his resume and they'll give him a call but sounds good, and invite oldest to come by any time and see what they are doing.  Potential friendship forming.  Oldest calls middle one to say all set, send resume to this email address (having gotten it).  Middle one calls us to tell us what is going on and emails resume.  Email response right away saying phone interview just to be sure everything is ok but probably a good match.  Middle one calls oldest to enthuse and then us.  We coach once more on double checking that the job meets the college's coop requirements.  Next day, phone interview happens, middle one goes over requirements, job person reassures him that he understands the requirements, qualifies, and is willing to fill out the proper paperwork.  Middle one calls oldest to say thank you and then us to say all set and tell us how great his older brother is.  We call oldest to thank him for giving the job to middle one.  Voila!  A summer internship/coop for middle one.  It will be rather sickening if one of the many coops middle one applied for offers him a really fabulous job opportunity, but a bird in hand etc.  Oldest gave the job to middle one because it wasn't quite what he wanted (although it would have been ok), and because he has been working for a number of years now so he has more contacts and therefore more opportunities, is more employable, and if all else fails, is more able to survive a summer with no work.

 

Nan

 

 

[Brenda in MA]

Thanks, Brenda. I haven't really heard of working at a coop for college students, What is that and how is it different than an internship?

 

Coops are generally longer assignments -- usually a summer and the following fall, or a spring and the following summer, so usually 8 mon. or so.  Employers like them because they are long enough for them to get useful work out of the student and for them to see if this student is someone they'd want to hire full time.  Often summer internships are only 2 - 3 months, too short of a time for the student to really become trained and useful to an employer.

 

There are some colleges that specialize/encourage the coop route.  Here are few I know of; I am sure there are others:  RIT, Va Tech, Drexel, Northeastern, etc.  These colleges have a normal plan (usually 5 years to Bachelors) that includes periods where the students are expected to work a coop.  My son's school didn't have this route, but it was possible with his major to take a semester off and then just go one additional semester later.  Not all schools can be this flexible either because some courses are only offered once/year, etc.

 

I think coops are more popular for science/technical fields, but I believe that at some of the above colleges, students in other majors do coops as well.  Another plus for cooping is that students can earn signifcant $ during that 8 month stretch.  My son applied some of his earnings to his college's bill instead of taking out a student loan one year.  I think it used to be that coop earnings could mess with a student's financial aid, but I think this was changed and now coop earning are excluded from the student's FAFSA income -- but I'm not totally sure, so this something to confirm.

 

Just one more thing to think about.

 

Brenda

 

[OnMyOwn]

Coops are generally longer assignments -- usually a summer and the following fall, or a spring and the following summer, so usually 8 mon. or so. Employers like them because they are long enough for them to get useful work out of the student and for them to see if this student is someone they'd want to hire full time. Often summer internships are only 2 - 3 months, too short of a time for the student to really become trained and useful to an employer.

 

There are some colleges that specialize/encourage the coop route. Here are few I know of; I am sure there are others: RIT, Va Tech, Drexel, Northeastern, etc. These colleges have a normal plan (usually 5 years to Bachelors) that includes periods where the students are expected to work a coop. My son's school didn't have this route, but it was possible with his major to take a semester off and then just go one additional semester later. Not all schools can be this flexible either because some courses are only offered once/year, etc.

 

I think coops are more popular for science/technical fields, but I believe that at some of the above colleges, students in other majors do coops as well. Another plus for cooping is that students can earn signifcant $ during that 8 month stretch. My son applied some of his earnings to his college's bill instead of taking out a student loan one year. I think it used to be that coop earnings could mess with a student's financial aid, but I think this was changed and now coop earning are excluded from the student's FAFSA income -- but I'm not totally sure, so this something to confirm.

 

Just one more thing to think about.

 

Brenda

Thanks for explaining all that, Brenda. I feel like I've learned a lot this week.

[OnMyOwn]

For those of you with children who aren't studying some sort of career, who don't know what they want to do after school and are majoring in something they like (English or history or biology or whatever), it may be a bit more difficult to come up with relevant work experience. I've seen two ways around this now, amongst friends and relatives of my children. One way is to work a non-relevant job during college and then after graduation, continue working in that non-relevant job part-time while either volunteering or taking an unpaid internship in something relevant for a year, meanwhile making oneself indispensable or failing that, networking like mad. Another is to join clubs during college that allow one to organize and run things like volunteer efforts, in other words, get organizational, management, and leadership skills, and make contacts. Another is to join a building-leadership-skills group. My niece joined one that among other things, taught everyone in the group how to write a grant and helped everyone to create their own paying summer job.

 

You can see if your state has listings of internships for certain majors the state is trying to encourage. A state that is trying to encourage growth in the biotech industry may have listings of state-sponsored internships for biology or chemistry majors.

 

Any of these options help with choosing a direction after graduation as well. The student will probably at least figure out some things they don't want to do. "I never want to work with children again; they are such little beasts." "I want an indoor job where there are no bugs." "I get depressed faced with sick people day in and day out." "People annoy me. I need a job where I don't have to interact with them." "I hate computers." "I really want to help people."

 

Notice that all of these involve pretty much creating a job for oneself. This involves watching for opportunities and seizing them. This is sometimes easier to do in small companies than in large ones because the structure tends to be more rigid in large companies. The student is probably going to need a fair bit of coaching in order to do this. Coaching during the job can be important, too, if you have a late bloomer like I do - reminding them to thank anyone who helped them with networking, writing a resume, staying on topic in meetings, confronting the boss with something stupid he's done in private not public, allowing for heavy traffic days so as to be on time, dressing appropriately, helping to make sure the right stuff is in the right place at the right time, remembering to network, etc.

 

We've been lucky. Our children have known before they went to college what career they wanted. Their majors are basically career training and some work training is built into the graduation requirements. The rest they got by networking.

 

Just in case it helps someone, here is how a recent instance of that networking worked. (Notice how MANY PHONE CALLS were exchanged, how involved we were (we have late bloomers, remember?), and how MUCH PERSISTENCE was required.) Both middle and oldest need summer work this summer. Middle one just got a job by networking as follows: We (the parents) know someone from church who might be looking for summer help in a relevant field. We approach them at church and ask. They say they are retired now, their son has taken over the business, but now is about when the hiring happens, give him a call. We give this information, along with the address and phone number, to oldest (who happens to be home and therefore able to get to these people easily). Oldest tries calling. No answer. A few days later, oldest goes to the address, walks in, and introduces himself. The right person isn't there, but he is given some encouragement and a phone number. Oldest calls. No answer. We tell oldest to keep trying and remind him how often he leaves his own phone at home. Oldest says ok and calls again. Still no answer, but the next day, a very apologetic person calls back. They talk. The job and pay are discussed. The two have quite a lot in common. Oldest says he has to think about it, he'll get back to them. Oldest tells dad he doesn't think he wants this job but dad was right, it might be perfect for middle one. Dad agrees. Oldest calls middle one and says do you want a job, I think I can get you one. Middle one is terribly excited, having panicked because all the companies that normally hire summer coops don't appear to be hiring this year. Oldest says stand by with resume ready to send and keep your phone charged up. (Dad did resume with middle one when he first started to apply for coops and middle one took it to one of a professor to check over, just to be sure there weren't industry differences since dad is in a different industry altogether.) Middle one calls home and says oldest just called with a possible job do we think he should go for it. We ask him to double check the college's coop requirements to make sure this will satisfy them. Middle one goes off and does some research, then calls back and says this job will qualify. We coach middle one on how to double check the requirements with the people with the job. Oldest calls people with job back and says the job isn't quite what he is looking for but his brother would be perfect and proceeds to why (having been coached by us when he said this is what he wanted to do). They say tell brother to send his resume and they'll give him a call but sounds good, and invite oldest to come by any time and see what they are doing. Potential friendship forming. Oldest calls middle one to say all set, send resume to this email address (having gotten it). Middle one calls us to tell us what is going on and emails resume. Email response right away saying phone interview just to be sure everything is ok but probably a good match. Middle one calls oldest to enthuse and then us. We coach once more on double checking that the job meets the college's coop requirements. Next day, phone interview happens, middle one goes over requirements, job person reassures him that he understands the requirements, qualifies, and is willing to fill out the proper paperwork. Middle one calls oldest to say thank you and then us to say all set and tell us how great his older brother is. We call oldest to thank him for giving the job to middle one. Voila! A summer internship/coop for middle one. It will be rather sickening if one of the many coops middle one applied for offers him a really fabulous job opportunity, but a bird in hand etc. Oldest gave the job to middle one because it wasn't quite what he wanted (although it would have been ok), and because he has been working for a number of years now so he has more contacts and therefore more opportunities, is more employable, and if all else fails, is more able to survive a summer with no work.

 

Nan

Thank you for writing all that out. Interesting to see how the networking happens first hand. But, I do have to wonder why so much emphasis is put on networking in this day and age. When I was younger, I looked in the want ads, sent in my resume and got a job. No networking required. Now, I have heard for years that you can find about a lot of jobs through the people you know, but why, with all the ways to connect people to jobs on the internet, does it now seem like there is much more emphasis on networking than there used to be? Is it that the pool of people for employers to pick from is so much larger that you don't have a chance unless you know someone?

[Arcadia]

When I was younger, I looked in the want ads, sent in my resume and got a job. No networking required. Now, I have heard for years that you can find about a lot of jobs through the people you know, but why, with all the ways to connect people to jobs on the internet, does it now seem like there is much more emphasis on networking than there used to be?

I graduated in the mid 90s and got my first job through head hunters within a week. A same age friend applied to many job wanted ads but took months to get an interview.

 

My hubby's job is in a niche area of semicon and research conferences are a good way to job hunt. It is very hard to judge a job applicant's hard skills and soft skills through online job application even with an uploaded resume. It is also hard to judge whether the online applicant would be a good fit to the company culture. Recruiting by word of mouth (employee referral) lessen the chance of a bad match and increase the chance of a position getting filled by someone suitable.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Arcadia