Writing Question

[Eliz]

Is it ever acceptable to use phrases such as "I will prove" or "I will explain" in literary essays?  I was taught these were not appropriate, but recently a teacher of an online highschool English class said otherwise to my daughter. My college days were a long time ago, so help me please! 

[8filltheheart]

I never allow my students to use those sorts of phrases in their writing. It is an indication of weak writing skills, IMHO.

[regentrude]

"In this paper, we will examine...."  or "We will discuss how..." are phrases I have seen often in academic writing by scholars who are experts in their fields (not just students).

So I am a bit puzzled why that would indicate "weak writing skills".

Edited April 6, 2016 by regentrude

[lmrich]

It is considered a no-no in literary analysis to use first or second person pronouns. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I was taught it's a no no. 

 

 

[Garga]

"In this paper, we will examine...." or "We will discuss how..." are phrases I have seen often in academic writing by scholars who are experts in their fields (not just students).

So I am a bit puzzled why that would indicate "weak writing skills".

Students are not to refer to themselves in their papers. It takes away from the strength of the argument. Consider this:

 

I believe smoking should be banned because it causes medical conditions that cost us all money.

 

VS.

 

Smoking should be banned because it causes medical conditions that cost us all money.

 

In the first one, the argument is weakened because the premise is simply the writer's personal opinion. Some guy somewhere "believes" smoking should be banned.

 

In the second one, the argument comes across as a strong statement because it stands alone without a qualifier that it's just someone's personal beliefs.

 

The examples you gave read, "In this paper we will..." That's a little different. It's not linking a statement to someone's personal belief. But more than that, the papers you're referring to are written by experts. Sometimes, once you have become an expert, you are allowed to break the rule and refer to yourself, "I believe..." because the "I" that you're referring to is an expert and your opinion actually counts and adds weight to the argument.

[8filltheheart]

"In this paper, we will examine...." or "We will discuss how..." are phrases I have seen often in academic writing by scholars who are experts in their fields (not just students).

So I am a bit puzzled why that would indicate "weak writing skills".

ETA: Garga's explanation. :)

Edited April 6, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[Mom22ns]

I thing the best answer here is to defer to the teacher. I taught my kids not to use first person. It is important to have that skill because most English teachers will mark down for first person references like those mentioned by the OP.

 

OTOH, many teachers are fine with the use of first person and some even encourage it. Make sure your kids know how to write without using first person, but also make sure they are capable of following ANY teacher's instructions. In college, they will do a lot of writing that will be graded by teacher's who were not English majors i.e. science, history, philosophy, etc. Making sure their writing is pleasing to their audience is key.

[8filltheheart]

I think there is also a distinction between writing in first person and writing,"I will prove." For example, a writing response to which did you like better, the movie or the book, would be appropriate in 1st person, but I still would not allow the phrasing "I will prove," or "I will explain." The thesis should state what is going to be argued.

Edited April 6, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[Garga]

Is it ever acceptable to use phrases such as "I will prove" or "I will explain" in literary essays? I was taught these were not appropriate, but recently a teacher of an online highschool English class said otherwise to my daughter. My college days were a long time ago, so help me please!

Hang on...in my earlier post I talked about the "I believe" statements and didn't address the "I will explain" statements.

 

First of all, I agree with an OP that if the teacher is ok with it then it's ok to use it, but normally it is not done so a student needs to know how to write both ways.

 

My arguments about the "I believe..." statements still stand for the "I will prove" statements, though the "I will prove" statements aren't as weak as "I believe" statements. "I will prove" statements aren't as bad as "I believe" statements, but they're still on the weak side for writing.

 

When you are trying to prove a point, you want the point to stand alone without you having to tell the reader that you are trying to prove a point. By pointing out the fact that you're proving a point, it comes across that your writing is so weak that you have to help the reader figure out what you're trying to say. For academic writing, simply prove the point without stepping back to say that you're proving the point.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Garga

[regentrude]

Students are not to refer to themselves in their papers. It takes away from the strength of the argument. Consider this:

 

I believe smoking should be banned because it causes medical conditions that cost us all money.

 

VS.

 

Smoking should be banned because it causes medical conditions that cost us all money.

 

In the first one, the argument is weakened because the premise is simply the writer's personal opinion. Some guy somewhere "believes" smoking should be banned.

 

In the second one, the argument comes across as a strong statement because it stands alone without a qualifier that it's just someone's personal beliefs.

 

The examples you gave read, "In this paper we will..." That's a little different. It's not linking a statement to someone's personal belief. But more than that, the papers you're referring to are written by experts. Sometimes, once you have become an expert, you are allowed to break the rule and refer to yourself, "I believe..." because the "I" that you're referring to is an expert and your opinion actually counts and adds weight to the argument.

 

The question was not about "I believe". Personal belief, I agree, should have no place in academic writing.

To take your example:

"In this paper we will examine the medical evidence and demonstrate that smoking causes ....." - I don't see how that takes away from the strength of the argument. Pretty much every scientific paper in prestigious peer reviewed journals I come across uses phrases like this.

Again, it has nothing to do with an expert's opinion, but with arguments that are independent of personal taste, opinion, and belief.

Edited April 6, 2016 by regentrude

[regentrude]

When you are trying to prove a point, you want the point to stand alone without you having to tell the reader that you are trying to prove a point. By pointing out the fact that you're proving a point, it comes across that your writing is so weak that you have to help the reader figure out what you're trying to say. For academic writing, simply prove the point without stepping back to say that you're proving the point.

 

Every academic paper in a non-school setting, i.e. in actual academia, gives the reader guidance what to expect. Terms like "we will demonstrate", "we will now examine", "Let us consider" are absolutely standard.

I find these "rules" for school writing rather artificial; they seem to be completely out of touch with the writing actual academics do in their careers.

 

[Garga]

The question was not about "I believe". Personal belief, I agree, should have no place in academic writing.

To take your example:

"In this paper we will examine the medical evidence and demonstrate that smoking causes ....." - I don't see how that takes away from the strength of the argument. Pretty much every scientific paper in prestigious peer reviewed journals I come across uses phrases like this.

You're right--I had just realized that and now we have cross-posted.

 

Upon reflection, I'm thinking that there are clear cases where the "In this paper we will..." would be fine. There are some cases where it would be iffy, and there are some cases where it would not be appropriate.

 

For the OPs case, it sounds like it was ok for that particular paper or for that particular teacher. It depends on the exact assignment and how much of the paper was based on pure facts vs opinion of the author. In your example above, the paper would be proving medical issues based on studies, etc. It is not a paper about whether or not smoking should be banned. If the paper is simply proving medical facts, then you can say, "We will examine..." But if the paper is about proving an opinion, even if the opinion is backed up by facts, then it's better to stay away from phrases with personal pronouns.

[8filltheheart]

Regentrude, you are discussing scientific journals vs. high school literary essays. Stylistic differences do exist and different teachers have different preferences. That phrasing makes me cringe. ;) From my perspective, I know the student is the author and I should know what they want to argue based on the thesis. I don't need to be told either one.

 

ETA: Fwiw, I have never seen a college composition book incorporating that phrasing. This yr my kids and I are using Patterns in College Writing and the instruction focuses on much stronger thesis development than "I will."

 

ETA2: fwiw, the phrasing posted by Regentrude reminds me of journal abstracts which are very different than literary essays.

Edited April 6, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[Penelope]

Scientific papers are a different sort of writing than essays, though, aren't they? Science writing is more about doing something and then sharing it. Essay writing is about using thoughts and ideas to prove a point.

 

Edit: crossposted with 8fill, but I'll leave it.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Penelope

[EKS]

In some genres, it is considered proper to refer to oneself and the paper, as in "In this paper we will examine..."  It sets my teeth on edge, but it's true.

[regentrude]

Regentrude, you are discussing scientific journals vs. high school literary essays. Stylistic differences do exist and different teachers have different preferences. That phrasing makes me cringe. ;) From my perspective, I know the student is the author and I should know what they want to argue based on the thesis. I don't need to be told either one.

 

ETA: Fwiw, I have never seen a college composition book incorporating that phrasing. This yr my kids and I are using Patterns in College Writing and the instruction focuses on much stronger thesis development than "I will."

 

ETA2: fwiw, the phrasing posted by Regentrude reminds me of journal abstracts which are very different than literary essays.

 

My point is that this specific format of the "high school literary essay" is an artificial form with artificial rules that do not mirror any actual academic writing - even by literary scholars. I briefly looked through a few issues of some journals in the field of literature specifically and found many instances of first person use and phrases like "I will examine" etc.

 

So, clearly, whatever the rules may be for the "high school literary essay" are specific rules for a specific artificial form of writing that do not translate to general academic writing. It may well be that the teachers who came up with the rules for this genre enforce them - but this particular genre is nothing the student will ever write outside of the high school English classroom. People who think about literature for a living do not write like this.

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by regentrude

[8filltheheart]

My point is that this specific format of the "high school literary essay" is an artificial form with artificial rules that do not mirror any actual academic writing - even by literary scholars. I briefly looked through a few issues of some journals in the field of literature specifically and found many instances of first person use and phrases like "I will examine" etc.

 

So, clearly, whatever the rules may be for the "high school literary essay" are specific rules for a specific artificial form of writing that do not translate to general academic writing. It may well be that the teachers who came up with the rules for this genre enforce them - but this particular genre is nothing the student will ever write outside of the high school English classroom. People who think about literature for a living do not write like this.

 

I disagree. Essays in general do not incorporate "I will prove."

 

I think that difference is the form; academic journals are not essays. College students will probably be required to produce multiple styles of writing. (The typical literary essay will be more like the link below.)

 

Here is a link with the development of a literary essay. http://www.bucks.edu/media/bcccmedialibrary/pdf/HOWTOWRITEALITERARYANALYSISESSAY_10.15.07_001.pdf (I only skimmed it bc my kids are waiting for me for literature. :) ) But from a brief scan, it looks decent.

Edited April 6, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[Bluegoat]

Less desirable stylistically, but not wrong.

 

I think a lot of young students, and even older people, have a rather cardboard-way of writing.  It can be difficult to sound both formal and natural and communicate what you want to.

 

In my discipline (classical philosophy), I found that things like thesis statements can to be rather heavily embeded in the writing - if you don't know what to look for, you might miss it.  But first person statements aren't uncommon either, and in many ways they can be clearer than the former kind of paper.  Both seem to be accepted by academic journals. 

 

Stylistically, I think I prefer the first, but there are plenty of great articles, and professors, that are stylistically inferior, or sometimes just weird.  I don't think it is easy to identify hard and fast rules about what is acceptable.

[Bluegoat]

Now, if we are thinking about the kind of essay you might see by an essayist, then I agree you would not see "I will prove" type statements.  Mostly because they are not trying to prove things in those kinds of essays.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I wouldn't accept "I will prove" or "I will explain" in a literary essay, particularly as a way of stating the thesis. But I don't agree that there is no place for the first or second person in academic writing. I hear or see that presented as a rule sometimes, in writing programs or elsewhere, and it's simply not accurate that there isn't a place for it. It all depends on the purpose, audience, and form.  I'd rather have a student write with clarity and grace and use the first and second person when appropriate (and understand when it is and isn't appropriate) than have them write stilted prose in an effort to avoid it because "it's a rule."

 

In the OP's case, I'd work with my student to figure out how to rephrase a thesis regardless of what the teacher accepts. It's a matter of style.