Pitfalls of non-traditional High School timeline?

[skimomma]

I was pondering our plans for 8th grade next year along with an issue I have asked about here involving my dd taking Lukeion Latin 1-3 before 9th grade.  For those not familiar with my Lukeion issue, in a nutshell we would like dd's latin classes to count as her two-year language requirement that many colleges have for admission.  But because she will only take AP Latin while "officially" in high school, she may be forced to take at least one year of some other language.  We would like to avoid this for several reasons that I will not bore you with here....

 

It has recently occurred to me that everything we have planned for next year (8th grade) falls well within the "high school" level.  We could call it 9th grade, essentially "skipping" the 8th grade.

 

I'm not really sure what to do with this.  I see three scenarios:

 

1.  Dd starts "9th grade" next year then graduates as a 16 yo going on to college a year early.

 

2.  Dd starts "9th grade" next year then graduates as a 16 yo and takes a "gap year" to work, travel, pursue interests, and/or take classes as a non-degree seeking student at our local university.

 

3.  Dd starts "9th grade" next year and we take 5 years to graduate.

 

Option 1 is highly unlikely as we do not want to send a 16yo off to college on her own.  But 2 and 3 are appealing.

 

We are nowhere near ready to make a decision about this.  In fact, I do not even plan to tell dd about this option right now.  We would see how the year goes and if we do indeed want to make it "9th grade" when all is said and done, we will.  This is mostly because there is a small but significant chance that dd will choose to attend a regular high school in what would be her projected 9th grade year. I don't want dd to feel pressured at all.

 

But if this continues to be an option, I will treat is like "high school" when it comes to record keeping and such.

 

As I think on this, do people see pitfalls with options 2 and 3?  Has anyone done a 5-year high school (option 3) and gone through the college admission process?  I imagine lots of people do a gap year (option 2) before attending college so I cannot imagine that would be a problem.

 

To complicate things, dd is heavily involved in a sport that could lead to dealing with NCAA.  Potentially even D1.  On the local level it is a club sport so she would be eligible to participate as a 17 yo even if she is technically "graduated" should we do the gap year option.  But I have no idea how this might impact her NCAA eligibility.  I worry that muddling through a double-whammy of homeschooling AND a non-traditional timeline might just be too much for everyone to deal with.  I imagine 5 years of high school would be 100% unacceptable in the eyes of NCAA.  Anyone know what they do about a gap year?

 

Any thoughts that anyone has about any of this would be helpful.

[Melissa B]

We are allowed to count 8th grade foreign language credits as high school credits if they are at a high school level. If that is an option in your state, that's what I would do.

[skimomma]

We are allowed to count 8th grade foreign language credits as high school credits if they are at a high school level. If that is an option in your state, that's what I would do.

 

We do not have any foreign language requirements for graduation in my state, so that is not a factor.  Many school districts require it but it is not mandated by the state.  It is college admission requirements that concern me.

[Xahm]

Is there a reason she cannot do a year of Latin after AP? Maybe something involving lots of work with original sources?

[snowbeltmom]

I was pondering our plans for 8th grade next year along with an issue I have asked about here involving my dd taking Lukeion Latin 1-3 before 9th grade.  For those not familiar with my Lukeion issue, in a nutshell we would like dd's latin classes to count as her two-year language requirement that many colleges have for admission.  But because she will only take AP Latin while "officially" in high school, she may be forced to take at least one year of some other language.  We would like to avoid this for several reasons that I will not bore you with here....

 

It has recently occurred to me that everything we have planned for next year (8th grade) falls well within the "high school" level.  We could call it 9th grade, essentially "skipping" the 8th grade.

 

I'm not really sure what to do with this.  I see three scenarios:

 

1.  Dd starts "9th grade" next year then graduates as a 16 yo going on to college a year early.

 

2.  Dd starts "9th grade" next year then graduates as a 16 yo and takes a "gap year" to work, travel, pursue interests, and/or take classes as a non-degree seeking student at our local university.

 

3.  Dd starts "9th grade" next year and we take 5 years to graduate.

 

Option 1 is highly unlikely as we do not want to send a 16yo off to college on her own.  But 2 and 3 are appealing.

 

We are nowhere near ready to make a decision about this.  In fact, I do not even plan to tell dd about this option right now.  We would see how the year goes and if we do indeed want to make it "9th grade" when all is said and done, we will.  This is mostly because there is a small but significant chance that dd will choose to attend a regular high school in what would be her projected 9th grade year. I don't want dd to feel pressured at all.

 

But if this continues to be an option, I will treat is like "high school" when it comes to record keeping and such.

 

As I think on this, do people see pitfalls with options 2 and 3?  Has anyone done a 5-year high school (option 3) and gone through the college admission process?  I imagine lots of people do a gap year (option 2) before attending college so I cannot imagine that would be a problem.

 

To complicate things, dd is heavily involved in a sport that could lead to dealing with NCAA.  Potentially even D1.  On the local level it is a club sport so she would be eligible to participate as a 17 yo even if she is technically "graduated" should we do the gap year option.  But I have no idea how this might impact her NCAA eligibility.  I worry that muddling through a double-whammy of homeschooling AND a non-traditional timeline might just be too much for everyone to deal with.  I imagine 5 years of high school would be 100% unacceptable in the eyes of NCAA.  Anyone know what they do about a gap year?

 

Any thoughts that anyone has about any of this would be helpful.

I would call the NCAA directly and ask this question as the answer may vary by sport.  In tennis, an American student is permitted only 4 years of high school, so once you officially declare a student a 9th grader, the clock starts ticking.

 

I would keep your child in the grade she should be in based on age, especially if she is thinking of playing at the D1 level.  You could arrange the transcript by subject and list the high school level classes taken in middle school on the transcript.  It is very common in my neck of the woods for kids to get high school credit for high school level foreign language taken in middle school.  It is also common for many kids to get the foreign language requirement for colleges completed by sophomore year of high school. 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

I would give credit on her transcript for Latin 3 in 8th and AP in 9th. Unless she is going to be a classics major, I can't imagine any university caring. When in doubt, call and ask. I wouldn't opt for any of your options. You are limiting and controlling her choices over either an additional Latin class or something that might not even be an issue at all. My dd will have taken 5 yrs of Latin, 7+ yrs of French, 4 of Russian by graduation, and all without a single AP. For admissions, that is probably a bigger issue bc it is untraditional. ;)

Edited April 4, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[Lori D.]

Totally agree with snowbeltmom.

 

As I read your post I thought "you have options" -- until you mentioned NCAA. At that point I think your options go out the window. If you want to play D-1 or D-2 you must follow NCAA rules for eligibility. That likely means a 5th year of high school is out. And it likely means a gap year is out, as the student will lose skill and opportunities to compete.

 

Since NCAA trumps all, it sounds like it's time to weigh the pros and cons of counting next year as 8th or 9th grade, and realize that you just won't have all pros and no cons with either choice. Which choice maximizes the pros and minimizes the cons for YOUR family?

 

I personally see more "pros" to next year being 8th grade:

- DD has time for maturing not only emotionally, but also physically so she will be even more competitive in sports

- allows you to take advantage of 8th grade (your last window of opportunity) to explore some of DD's many and varied interests (which might open a door to future career interest) -- can be much harder to explore bunny trails and personal interests in high school

- if she's taking mostly high school level work in 8th grade, she'll be doing more advanced high school work for the 4 years of high school, which will make her more competitive in test scores, GPA, and transcript coursework

- doing mostly high school work in 8th grade will make transitioning to high school a snap (she's already been doing it), and will make juggling her academics with sports and any extracurriculars a lot easier

 

The only "con" I see to next year being 8th grade is that you'll just have to suck it up and take foreign language in high school -- which would not be a bad thing, as colleges often prefer a Modern (living) language as to Latin, AND, if DD takes a Romance language she is going to sail through it with ease due to her Latin background. So it will be an easy 2 credits and shouldn't keep her from exploring all of her other interests. Or, as previous posters mentioned, just take more Latin.

 

The "pros" I see for calling next year 9th grade:

- high school level coursework all counts as high school credit

- would not need to take additional foreign language

 

Cons include:

- less time for exploring interests (since 8th grade was skipped and became 9th grade)

- may not be able to transfer into the public high school of interest as a 10th grader

- if she goes to the public high school she may lose a year of sports team eligibility going from playing as a homeschooler (if played as a 9th grader for another school) to playing for the public high school

- graduate/off to college younger than you feel comfortable with

- fewer summers during high school for participation in special travel or opportunities

- fewer years of high school for participation in extracurriculars

 

If you end up calling next year 9th grade, then buckle up for a short, fast ride through the rest of high school, with your main focus of time/energy on things like:

- time/effort of getting eyes on your DD for college recruiting

- PSAT and ACT/SAT test prep for scoring high on tests

- career exploration/figuring out college degree program interests of DD

- college search process for best matches for DD's personality, degree program interest, and your family finances

 

 

 

While you could wait until the end of next year to make the final choice, if you did choose to make next year 9th grade, that is going to put both you and DD "under the gun" with one less year to get everything accomplished for high school. JMO, but since that would have a very big impact on DD (as well as on you), I would bring DD into this discussion now. It can be a casual conversation and not get into too many details, but I think a big picture of major pros/cons should be looked at now. Maybe DD does not want to spend the next 4 years pushing hard, and would prefer to have a bit more time and a more relaxed high school experience -- or maybe she is really motivated and excited to move on to the next stage of her education. But since she's the one doing the work, she does need to have a glimpse of the big picture at this stage. JMO! :)

 

BEST of luck as you decide. Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Lori D.

[Haiku]

I would not base my entire high school plan on avoiding having to take one credit of foreign language. Unless I am missing something, that's what your concern is about. It seems like excessive concern over something minor.

 

Why not just shove Lukeion Latin back one year, so she takes 3 and AP in high school?

 

Most universities who require language require two years of the same language, so AP Latin + one year of something else wouldn't even meet their requirement.

[DebbS]

I wouldn't have her do highschool for 5 years. Most colleges would only consider the last 4 years anyway.  If it isn't a state requirement, then you might just look into what potential colleges allow. Many require a particular level of the language by high school rather than a specific number of courses. According the college board AP Latin web site, "The AP Exam presupposes four to five years of Latin language instruction."  So, if you get through the AP exam, you have proof of several years of Latin in or before high school.

[skimomma]

Thanks for the replies.  There is a lot to think about.....

 

To clear up the foreign language thing.....no, we would not reconfigure her entire high school plan just to resolve the language requirement issue.  It would just be one additional "pro."  

 

The real prize would be the potential for a gap year or a way to spread out the HS requirements.  It is so hard to say this far out if NCAA will even be a factor at all.  Statistically, I would say that there is very little chance.  This is not a "power sport" and there are only a handful of universities nationwide that have teams.  The likelihood that dd would still want to compete seriously enough to do so in college, have the talent necessary, AND match with a school that meets her needs academically/financially are pretty slim in my eyes.  My gut feeling is that if she did want to pursue it in college, it would likely be at a D3 school in which none of this matter.  So, while I want to keep those options open for her, it is not my biggest priority.

 

Dd's biggest homeschool-related desire is to have more free time to pursue her non-academic interests.  Her sport is just one of those.  I do believe her interests are pursuit-worthy enough that I am willing to consider pairing down her academic load as much as possible to make room.  I believe a gap year would be very appealing to dd.  It could also be a nice bridge into college as she would have access to a university on a part-time basis as a non-degree-seeking student during that gap year.  She could take a handful of classes, pursue her interests, work a little, and ease into the rigor of college slowly.  Of course, there is no reason she cannot do that on a traditional schedule as well but then there would for sure be a year off of participating in her sport formally with a team.  As I mentioned in the OP, her current team is not school-related.  It is club and by age only.  I have to ask her coaches but I don't think her being technically "graduated" would matter if she wanted to remain on the team during the gap year.

 

At this point, I'm really just thinking out loud so the input already shared and that might yet be shared is helpful. 

 

 

 

[KarenNC]

Have you considered the possibility of an option 4? If you have the ability to dual enroll either at a community college, especially one that has an articulation agreement with 4 year schools, or a local university, that might be a good option. Ours has free tuition at the community college for juniors and seniors, with an articulation agreement to all our state schools and a number of private ones. I'd look at calling it 8th grade, sticking with the current Latin schedule, which will cover the foreign language admission requirement, and consider dual enrollment for foreign language to cover a possible college graduation requirement when she is eligible. She could also work on other gen ed requirements via dual enrollment, taking care of those at (usually) a much lower cost than a 4 year school. I don't know anything about NCAA requirements, but it seems to me that having some credits under her belt might come in handy to make her semesters a bit lighter at college to allow more practice and playing time.

 

I would be concerned that enrolling even as a non-degree-seeking studet after official graduation could harm options for freshman standing where scholarships are concerned. The colleges we've seen so far don't hold any dual enrollment credits against a student when considering them for merit scholarships.

[skimomma]

Have you considered the possibility of an option 4? If you have the ability to dual enroll either at a community college, especially one that has an articulation agreement with 4 year schools, or a local university, that might be a good option. Ours has free tuition at the community college for juniors and seniors, with an articulation agreement to all our state schools and a number of private ones. I'd look at calling it 8th grade, sticking with the current Latin schedule, which will cover the foreign language admission requirement, and consider dual enrollment for foreign language to cover a possible college graduation requirement when she is eligible. She could also work on other gen ed requirements via dual enrollment, taking care of those at (usually) a much lower cost than a 4 year school. I don't know anything about NCAA requirements, but it seems to me that having some credits under her belt might come in handy to make her semesters a bit lighter at college to allow more practice and playing time.

 

I would be concerned that enrolling even as a non-degree-seeking studet after official graduation could harm options for freshman standing where scholarships are concerned. The colleges we've seen so far don't hold any dual enrollment credits against a student when considering them for merit scholarships.

 

 

DE is the current plan and is our likely path at this point. I think it is a fine plan but worry that it will be even more of a time-sink for dd during those years.  

 

We are also looking into different Latin paths to spread it out into high school, other languages, a potential fifth year of Latin, etc....  Math is also an issue for similar reasons.  We have lots of options on the table right now.  This early graduation and potential gap year option was a new revelation and seemed like maybe an answer to a lot of our issues but with the insight here, I am feeling less optimistic.  

[snowbeltmom]

 

 

Since NCAA trumps all, it sounds like it's time to weigh the pros and cons of counting next year as 8th or 9th grade, and realize that you just won't have all pros and no cons with either choice. Which choice maximizes the pros and minimizes the cons for YOUR family?

 

I personally see more "pros" to next year being 8th grade:

- DD has time for maturing not only emotionally, but also physically so she will be even more competitive in sports

-  .

 

:iagree:

It is not unusual at all for an athlete to turn 19 before high school graduation. While the difference physically between a 17 year old and 19 year old female is not a drastic as that between a 17 year old and 19 year old male, the younger athlete will still be competing against athletes that have had more time to perfect their skills.

 

[GoodGrief]

Judging by your username, I am thinking your daughter and mine have similar sports going on. :-) My daughter just finished competing at Jr Nationals.

 

For what it's worth, if the sport is a consideration, I would for sure stick to the traditional path and keep her with her age-appropriate grade, unless she is clearly an exceptional talent at this point. It's not terribly easy to get on the teams at the collegiate level, and being older and stronger will help.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Gr8lander

[Lori D.]

...It is so hard to say this far out if NCAA will even be a factor at all...The likelihood that dd would still want to compete seriously enough to do so in college, have the talent necessary, AND match with a school that meets her needs academically/financially are pretty slim in my eyes.  My gut feeling is that if she did want to pursue it in college, it would likely be at a D3 school in which none of this matter.  So, while I want to keep those options open for her, it is not my biggest priority...

 

Ahh… so you just need to have the potential of NCAA in your back pocket as a remote possibility. So, that just means you need to accomplish the 16 core credits in the way NCAA wants to see it during the 4 years of high school. If you do that, you're still going to have 8-10 credits of flexibility throughout high school for your DD to explore interests. Or just do 4-6 credits on top of those 16 core NCAA credits to allow more time for the non-academic pursuits. And if she doesn't end up pursuing NCAA sports, then you can include a section on the transcript for "high school courses taken prior to 9th grade", for additional rigor.

 

 

...Dd's biggest homeschool-related desire is to have more free time to pursue her non-academic interests...

 

Sounds like DD's giving you some good input on what she wants. :) JMO, but I don't think speeding through high school by making next year 9th grade, and then hitting the brakes after high school with a gap year, will help her best meet her goals of time for non-academic pursuits.

 

If you pare her load down to 5.5 credits per year of high school, she graduates with a total of 22 credits -- make sure that 16 of those are the NCAA core required credits -- that still gives her at least 1 credit of Elective per year to pursue personal interest, and over all that's just 5.5 hours of school a day ( less if she does some work on weekends or over the summer) -- that leaves her at least 6 hours a day for sports and personal interests. And if she does a total of 4 classes of DE (1 per semester each in 11th/12th grades), each 1 semester DE course = 1 year (full 1 credit) of high school work, so now you've just bumped your total to 26 credits, without too much increase in workload (depending on which courses you do as DE), and further increased opportunity for more of those credits to be Electives.

 

That should give her loads of free time to pursue her non-academic interests, while meeting NCAA standards, and not even having to dip into 8th grade to "pull up" credits.

 

 

DE is the current plan and is our likely path at this point. I think it is a fine plan but worry that it will be even more of a time-sink for dd during those years...

 

You can always hold off on doing an DE until 11th/12th grades, or even just in 12th grade as a transition into college. Or limit yourselves to just 1 DE course per semester. Or take some DE, and then other semesters no DE. Just pace yourselves. :) If you find the first time you do DE that it sucks away too much time from other activities and interests, then back down on the DE. No reason to feel you *have* to keep doing DE, or do oodles of it. ;)

 

.. I believe a gap year would be very appealing to dd.  It could also be a nice bridge into college as she would have access to a university on a part-time basis as a non-degree-seeking student during that gap year.  She could take a handful of classes, pursue her interests, work a little, and ease into the rigor of college slowly...

 

She can do all of that in a gap year EXCEPT take classes. That automatically knocks her out of freshman status to transfer student status.

 

I do think a gap year can be an excellent idea for allowing a student to explore personal interests, to mature, to travel/volunteer, and have more to "bring to the table" of the college. And if those are your only goals for a gap year, then go for it! :) HOWEVER, it sounds like DD's top goal is to pursue academics during a gap year, and as KarenNC says above, you just can NOT DO THAT, even as a non-degree seeking student. A SINGLE COURSE taken after high school graduation at any college/university, whether in person or online, whether for a degree or not, will change your student's status from freshman to transfer student, and knock her out of eligibility for the much larger "pot of money" handed out to freshmen. It also knocks the student out of eligibility for any special program that has to be started as a freshman or is only open to freshmen.

 

If DD does take the gap year, then it really needs to be a complete focus on her sport and competition, and perhaps a job or travel or volunteer work to give her a range of experiences. Any "academics" would have to come solely through self-study -- things like The Great Courses, podcasts and live-streaming informational classes, Coursera, or other MOOC, which are non-credit courses offered for self-education to people of all ages. Absolutely NO formal/registered college credit classes, even as a "non-degree seeking student" or for audit.

 

Good luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Lori D.

[skimomma]

Judging by your username, I am thinking your daughter and mine have similar sports going on. :-) My daughter just finished competing at Jr Nationals.

 

For what it's worth, if the sport is a consideration, I would for sure stick to the traditional path and keep her with her age-appropriate grade, unless she is clearly an exceptional talent at this point. It's not terribly easy to get on the teams at the collegiate level, and being older and stronger will help.

 

That would be the same sport:)  

 

If we did arrange things for an early graduation, she would take a year off before going on the college.  I'm not even sure that is an OK thing to do anyway.  But watching some of her older teammates who are now competing at the collegiate level, some are "red shirting" their freshman year.  I'm not even sure I know what that means.

[skimomma]

 

 

 

She can do all of that in a gap year EXCEPT take classes. That automatically knocks her out of freshman status to transfer student status.

 

 

 

On the tiny chance NCAA eligibility does end up mattering, she would not take and classes that year.  Since that is a tiny chance, there is a much bigger chance that it would at least be one of many options of what she could do with that year.

 

I have not done a whole lot of high school research yet so I might be way off, but I cannot quite see how calling next year 9th grade would be condensing or cramming in high school.  This is where my own ignorance might be showing.  Don't many 8th graders, even in PS, take many classes that would be considered HS level if they happened to be in HS?  I dd's case, she is taking algebra next year whether she is 8th grade, 9th grade, or whatever grade.  The difference between calling her an 8th grader next year versus a 9th grader is that in the former she would take through calculus in a "normal' HS math sequence versus taking up through pre-calculus.  Nothing additional is getting completed in any given year.  It is 4 credits either way, just a matter of whether that 4th credit is calculus on one end or algebra on the other.  When I look at our plan for next year, I was calling all of her classes "middle school" when we mapped them out but they could be called HS classes with little or no tweaking.  The content we cover next year and the following years would not change, just what she might not do that last year if we called next year 9th grade.  I'm sure I am missing something?

 

Again, just thinking out loud.  In all likelihood, for my own sanity and dd's comfort level, we will probably stay the original course so that we don't jeopardize any potential athletic pursuits.  That gap year or even spreading out content over five years just seems like such a gift for a girl who is bright and academically talented but has other things she wants to immerse herself in.

[8filltheheart]

It really depends on what types of colleges your dd wants to apply to and whether or nor you are going to need scholarships based strictly on merit. That is when skipping a yr can influence outcomes.

 

For example, alg in 9th grade is fine for most universities, but on the weaker side for competitive schools. National Merit scholarships are based on 11th grade scores. Would another yr lead to stronger test scores?

 

Fwiw, all of our kids have completed numerous high school courses in middle school. We are dependent on merit aid, not need-based aid, so having rock solid transcripts and test scores matter a lot. My current 11th grader, for example completed cal 1 fall semester, is the student I described earlier in this thread with 3 strong foreign languages credits, and she was reading works like Paradise Lost in 8th grade. She will graduate on time and should definitely make NMSF for our state. That opens up a lot more scholarships. More options bc she is graduating on time. (Not that we would graduate her early anyway bc I wan my kids older when they go off to college.)

Edited April 5, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I would vote for keeping her at her current grade, even if she will complete AP Latin in 9th grade.

 

Many students take an AP exam in a heritage language in 9th grade or earlier, thus freeing their high school schedule for other coursework.  Should you find that her dream school requires two years of language in high school, you could either add a 5th year of Latin (Lukeion now has a post AP 5th year course) or take two semesters of a modern language as dual enrollment.  (But my honest impression is that this won't be a stumbling block for a kid with an AP exam score of 4+.

 

Sticking to her age related grade instead of pushing ahead now:

-Lets you work on language and possibly math (algebra or highr) now, with the idea of marking those high school level courses on the transcript as taken before 9th grade.

-Gives her more time for the things she is interested in during high school, instead of rushing to get everything done.

-Gives her another year of growth and experience in her sport.

-Lets her upper grade work be on a higher level, thus putting her in a position to complete more AP exams, DE, or other rigorous coursework.*

 

 

*What I mean by this is that if she is already working on a strong level in 8th grade, that gives her 4 more years to push the boundaries of academics.  DS2 will have a significant DE load, will be doing a second foreign language, will be taking calculus, etc.  He took the exact same coursework in 8th grade as ds1 had as a 9th grader.  I put languages and math on the high school transcript, then just increased the rigor of what he did in 9th grade.  (Does that make sense the way I'm explaining it?)

Edited April 5, 2016 by Sebastian (a lady)

[J-rap]

I don't know about the sports part, so can't address that.  But, I can share what we did with our dd.

 

We didn't make a decision in 8th grade, but waited to see how the year would progress, and I kept good records.  

 

By the end of 8th grade, we basically decided she would skip 9th grade, though we were able to call the majority of her 8th grade courses high school courses and presented them as 9th grade classes on her transcript.  (I know that sounds confusing!)

 

Basically, we jumped right into 10th grade after 8th grade.

 

Then after she graduated from high school, she took a gap year to study French in France.  It was an immersion school, an international Bible school taught in French, where they were required to speak French everywhere except in dorm rooms.  

 

She entered college the following year and was able to pass out of all French level courses and directly into higher level French courses (French lit, etc.), which gave her more scholarship money and an easier path to her degree.  She also was able to enter as a freshman because the school she attended in Europe was not accredited.

Edited April 5, 2016 by J-rap

[GoodGrief]

If plenty of time to pursue extracurriculars and training is one of her priorities, I would not plan on a whole lot of dual enrollment.  They really are a time suck and can be a scheduling nightmare if she is doing much racing. Look for courses that offer some flexibility and/or can be done on the go.

 

You may want to consider adding in a modern language too. Some of the schools where she could pursue her sport will require a bit more language study if she is to be a competitive candidate.

[skimomma]

I don't know about the sports part, so can't address that.  But, I can share what we did with our dd.

 

We didn't make a decision in 8th grade, but waited to see how the year would progress, and I kept good records.  

 

By the end of 8th grade, we basically decided she would skip 9th grade, though we were able to call the majority of her 8th grade courses high school courses and presented them as 9th grade classes on her transcript.  (I know that sounds confusing!)

 

Basically, we jumped right into 10th grade after 8th grade.

 

Then after she graduated from high school, she took a gap year to study French in France.  It was an immersion school, an international Bible school taught in French, where they were required to speak French everywhere except in dorm rooms.  

 

She entered college the following year and was able to pass out of all French level courses and directly into higher level French courses (French lit, etc.), which gave her more scholarship money and an easier path to her degree.  She also was able to enter as a freshman because the school she attended in Europe was not accredited.

 

This is kind of what is in the back of my mind.  Keeping our options open to the possibility with good record-keeping and course management so that we could use it as a high school year if we wanted to later when we know more about what she might or might not want to do. 

[skimomma]

It really depends on what types of colleges your dd wants to apply to and whether or nor you are going to need scholarships based strictly on merit. That is when skipping a yr can influence outcomes.

 

For example, alg in 9th grade is fine for most universities, but on the weaker side for competitive schools. National Merit scholarships are based on 11th grade scores. Would another yr lead to stronger test scores?

 

Fwiw, all of our kids have completed numerous high school courses in middle school. We are dependent on merit aid, not need-based aid, so having rock solid transcripts and test scores matter a lot. My current 11th grader, for example completed cal 1 fall semester, is the student I described earlier in this thread with 3 strong foreign languages credits, and she was reading works like Paradise Lost in 8th grade. She will graduate on time and should definitely make NMSF for our state. That opens up a lot more scholarships. More options bc she is graduating on time. (Not that we would graduate her early anyway bc I wan my kids older when they go off to college.)

 

This is also so hard to know right now.  Dd is bright and a good student but my gut says she will not be merit-scholarship material.  I think she could be but would choose to focus on other things if given a choice.  So, like NCAA, I don't want to completely close any doors but don't want a long shot to dictate what the last five years of dd's childhood looks like.

[8filltheheart]

This is also so hard to know right now. Dd is bright and a good student but my gut says she will not be merit-scholarship material. I think she could be but would choose to focus on other things if given a choice. So, like NCAA, I don't want to completely close any doors but don't want a long shot to dictate what the last five years of dd's childhood looks like.

I am totally confused by your posts. If she isn't a strong enough student to be a contender for merit scholarships, I don't know why you would want to reduce her k12 education by a yr. It isn't even an easy decision for academically advanced strong students. What is the compelling reason for making her skip a grade?

 

You are also talking about reducing her childhood by a year. She can graduate from high school 5 yrs from now and still take a gap yr if she wants.

[skimomma]

If plenty of time to pursue extracurriculars and training is one of her priorities, I would not plan on a whole lot of dual enrollment.  They really are a time suck and can be a scheduling nightmare if she is doing much racing. Look for courses that offer some flexibility and/or can be done on the go.

 

You may want to consider adding in a modern language too. Some of the schools where she could pursue her sport will require a bit more language study if she is to be a competitive candidate.

 

Another balancing act.  There will be a point where we will have to look to outsource science and possibly math.  DE is a strong possibility but balancing that with free time will be tricky, I know.  We already run into problems with online classes and dd's race schedule.  I really do not know how her traditionally schooled teammates do it to be honest.  

 

I have looked at the list of schools with dd's sport and many are not a possibility for various reasons.  However, there are a few strong "candidates" that are good schools that would be a good fit for dd.  It appears Latin would suffice for admission to those schools.  A modern language is certainly not off the table and dd might very well want to take a modern language.  I am just looking ahead with the possible goal of paring down academically as much as possible should that remain a strong desire of dd's.  if I were betting money, I think dd will at some point elect to take more language.

[skimomma]

I am totally confused by your posts. If she isn't a strong enough student to be a contender for merit scholarships, I don't know why you would want to reduce her k12 education by a yr. It isn't even an easy decision for academically advanced strong students. What is the compelling reason for making her skip a grade?

 

You are also talking about reducing her childhood by a year. She can graduate from high school 5 yrs from now and still take a gap yr if she wants.

 

I'm sorry.  I guess I am not articulating well.

 

I will try to be brief and to the point.

 

We are just trying to identify all of the possible options for creating flexibility in the later teen years and what the ramifications of those options might be.  I was wondering what some of the pitfalls of an early graduation might be and have gotten a of good feedback that has helped immensely.  In my OP, I was clear that we are not in a position to make a decision right now.  The only thing I might do is be more diligent when selecting materials and about record-keeping if I think there is any possibility at all of retrospectively changing what we are calling next year.

 

Plenty of people choose to graduate early for non-academic reasons.  From the feedback I have gotten in this thread, I would say that it is becoming less likely to be a good path for dd in my mind at this time.  It has helped to discuss this with others because when this option first occurred to dh and I, we did not see some of the downsides pointed out here.

[8filltheheart]

Plenty of people choose to graduate early for non-academic reasons. .

I am glad you have been able to sort through your thoughts. There are a lot of issues to consider and it can be overwhelming at times. Parenting older kids is way harder than when they are younger bc the issues tend to be more life-altering.

 

I did want to comment on the part I quoted, though. Most students attend school. Early graduation requires meeting all state requirements which can be difficult if a student is not accelerated across the board due to the lack of flexibility within school systems. Some colleges have early entrance programs for academically advanced students, but again the population of students attending those programs is not large and the goal is academic.

 

Early graduation is probably more common amg certain groups of homeschoolers. But graduating early when college-bound for non-academic reasons is definitely going to be a smaller percentage when discussing students who are not significantly academically advanced.

[skimomma]

I am glad you have been able to sort through your thoughts. There are a lot of issues to consider and it can be overwhelming at times. Parenting older kids is way harder than when they are younger bc the issues tend to be more life-altering.

 

I did want to comment on the part I quoted, though. Most students attend school. Early graduation requires meeting all state requirements which can be difficult if a student is not accelerated across the board due to the lack of flexibility within school systems. Some colleges have early entrance programs for academically advanced students, but again the population of students attending those programs is not large and the goal is academic.

 

Early graduation is probably more common amg certain groups of homeschoolers. But graduating early when college-bound for non-academic reasons is definitely going to be a smaller percentage when discussing students who are not significantly academically advanced.

 

Yes.  I agree with you.  I was more worried/concerned about admission in general with a gap year/early graduation and did not think of how it might be perceived compared to other early graduates even if she would indeed be typical college age at the time she actually attended.  As homeschoolers, we get so used to being able to do whatever works best for our kids but eventually have to face the music that we have to check off the same boxes as everyone else if they want to go to college.

[snowbeltmom]

We are just trying to identify all of the possible options for creating flexibility in the later teen years and what the ramifications of those options might be. 

I have a nationally ranked 5-star athlete who devotes upwards of 30 hours a week to his sport, and I totally get how difficult it is to balance athletics and academics, especially at the high school level.   

 

In order to have enough hours in the day for sleep and relaxation, he has been homeschooling year-round for a number of years.  If you are not homeschooling year-round, you may want to try that approach.  During the traditional school year, my son works from 8 - 2:30.  During the summer months of June, July and August, he works 4 hours a day.  He has a crazy travel schedule, especially during the summer, so he is used to working in hotels.

 

There is no way that my son could complete my academic requirements and fulfill his athletic goals if he homeschooled following a traditional school calendar - there are just not enough hours in the day.

[skimomma]

I have a nationally ranked 5-star athlete who devotes upwards of 30 hours a week to his sport, and I totally get how difficult it is to balance athletics and academics, especially at the high school level.   

 

In order to have enough hours in the day for sleep and relaxation, he has been homeschooling year-round for a number of years.  If you are not homeschooling year-round, you may want to try that approach.  During the traditional school year, my son works from 8 - 2:30.  During the summer months of June, July and August, he works 4 hours a day.  He has a crazy travel schedule, especially during the summer, so he is used to working in hotels.

 

There is no way that my son could complete my academic requirements and fulfill his athletic goals if he homeschooled following a traditional school calendar - there are just not enough hours in the day.

 

Year-round is one option we are looking at.  Dd is also probably going to have to make some choices.  As all-consuming as her sport is, she spends even more time on music.  It is a double-whammy.  And likely not sustainable.  In the summers, in addition to training, she also has a lot of gigs, rehearsals, and festivals.  It is awesome and maddening.

[MysteryJen]

Eventually athletes need to decide. Taking a DI path means pruning nearly everything but sports and academics. Also, in your sport there is a lot of competition from foreign athletes who are nearly all older. You need to know the NCAA rules for eligibility and different sports have different rules for gap years. Tennis and swimming are strict.

I would do four years of high school, 9th grade at the appropriate age-graduation at late 17 or 18. Follow NCAA standards for early academic qualifiers (courses taken in 8th grade count if high school level-make the case on the core course worksheets). If she changes her mind, you still are building a solid transcript.

Homeschoolers get used to having time to pursue lots of interests. Even for homeschoolers, hard choices have to be made.

[Corraleno]

I have a nationally ranked 5-star athlete who devotes upwards of 30 hours a week to his sport, and I totally get how difficult it is to balance athletics and academics, especially at the high school level.   

 

In order to have enough hours in the day for sleep and relaxation, he has been homeschooling year-round for a number of years.  If you are not homeschooling year-round, you may want to try that approach.  During the traditional school year, my son works from 8 - 2:30.  During the summer months of June, July and August, he works 4 hours a day.  He has a crazy travel schedule, especially during the summer, so he is used to working in hotels.

 

There is no way that my son could complete my academic requirements and fulfill his athletic goals if he homeschooled following a traditional school calendar - there are just not enough hours in the day.

 

:iagree:

 

This is what we do as well. DS is a nationally-ranked athlete who trains 20+ hrs/wk in addition to frequent travel and competition. We school year round, and he takes his work with him when we travel. He would like to do some DE courses next year, so I'm currently trying to figure out how to mesh a national competition schedule with the local CC schedule, which gets pretty complicated. 

 

OP, the NCAA does allow a gap year, and even allows competition during the gap year* as long as the student does not take any classes in that time. The student must enroll in college at the "nearest opportunity" after the 1 year is up — so, for example, a student who graduates in June 2016 must enroll in college by Fall 2017 in order to retain full eligibility. If the student continues to compete after that point without enrolling in college — even if it's just a single competition — the athlete will lose a year of eligibility and have to sit out one year. 

 

As for doing a 5th year of high school... the NCAA clock for high school starts counting at the beginning of 9th grade, and the student has 8 semesters from that point to fulfill the requirements. The 16 core courses must be completed by the end of the 8th semester, and 10 of them have to be completed before the beginning of the 7th semester (so by the end of the summer after the 3rd yr). None of the courses taken in the 5th year would count. OTOH, you can count HS level courses done in 8th grade, as long as those meet the NCAA requirements. You would be much better off leaving next year as 8th grade (while keeping good records for any courses you might want to count as NCAA cores), graduating your DD at the normal age, and then, if she still wants to pursue other interests, let her take a gap year at that point. She will be better prepared for college with a stronger transcript, she will be more advanced in her sport, and she will have retained full NCAA eligibility.

 

*(except tennis players, who are only allowed 6 months)

[skimomma]

:iagree:

 

This is what we do as well. DS is a nationally-ranked athlete who trains 20+ hrs/wk in addition to frequent travel and competition. We school year round, and he takes his work with him when we travel. He would like to do some DE courses next year, so I'm currently trying to figure out how to mesh a national competition schedule with the local CC schedule, which gets pretty complicated. 

 

OP, the NCAA does allow a gap year, and even allows competition during the gap year* as long as the student does not take any classes in that time. The student must enroll in college at the "nearest opportunity" after the 1 year is up — so, for example, a student who graduates in June 2016 must enroll in college by Fall 2017 in order to retain full eligibility. If the student continues to compete after that point without enrolling in college — even if it's just a single competition — the athlete will lose a year of eligibility and have to sit out one year. 

 

As for doing a 5th year of high school... the NCAA clock for high school starts counting at the beginning of 9th grade, and the student has 8 semesters from that point to fulfill the requirements. The 16 core courses must be completed by the end of the 8th semester, and 10 of them have to be completed before the beginning of the 7th semester (so by the end of the summer after the 3rd yr). None of the courses taken in the 5th year would count. OTOH, you can count HS level courses done in 8th grade, as long as those meet the NCAA requirements. You would be much better off leaving next year as 8th grade (while keeping good records for any courses you might want to count as NCAA cores), graduating your DD at the normal age, and then, if she still wants to pursue other interests, let her take a gap year at that point. She will be better prepared for college with a stronger transcript, she will be more advanced in her sport, and she will have retained full NCAA eligibility.

 

*(except tennis players, who are only allowed 6 months)

 

That is very good info.  Thanks!