Arizona State?

[Crimson Wife]

Would straight to graduate school be an option for her since she's so advanced, beyond what a senior in college could do?  Is she interested in research?  PhD's learn for free!  

 

I have heard of grad schools taking students without a bachelor's but the folks I have heard of being successful typically have a lot of life experience to substitute for the lack of the degree. I'm not sure the OP's daughter would have that much luck going straight out of high school.

 

[MarkT]

I have an acquaintance who's daughter is in the honors college - they like it,  it is a different environment then the rest of ASU 

 

https://barretthonors.asu.edu/admissions/frequently-asked-questions

[irprof]

I have been away from this board for a long time but am returning because I wanted to reply to this

 

1) Have you considered schools in Texas with Russian and full-rides for MN finalists? Baylor, in particular, might be a good choice. UT Arlington, I think, also has Russian.

2) Have you looked at good but not elite liberal arts colleges (ie, American University) who may want to up their rankings. I know of people from a middle class background who have received a full or nearly full ride there on the basis of academics. IF the tests scores are high, some of the $$$$ liberal arts colleges might not be bad.

3) In terms of planning, if the goal is ACTFL superior in speaking (not just writing), study aboard is essential unless she is a heritage speaker. I don't think I've ever met someone as non-heritage speaker who achieved superior level language without going abroad or immersion in a local (usually Spanish) community. Further, as an adviser, it would be hard for me to take a language major seriously without time abroad in the target language. I would recommend at least a semester or summer abroad of both languages, but two years would have a lot of appeal for future opportunities--French early, Russian late.

4) One other thing to consider is areas of the country with a lot of Russian heritage speakers (ie, Boston, PNW etc), which might provide an avenue for conversations that are hard to get on campus

5) I would think about a minor linking her language skills with possible future opportunities (ie, international relations, business or economics, development, ESL etc). Given the language skills she is entering with this should be doable.

6) She should look into Boren, CLS and other scholarships (https://www.borenawards.org/boren_scholarship/basics.html)

(http://clscholarship.org/) 

Edited March 25, 2016 by irprof

[Luckymama]

Wrt to American University for those reading along who cannot afford their high EFC (iow will not qualify for need-based aid):

 

Merit scholarships are not all they used to be at AU. Most are in the $10-15,000 range which is not much compared to the COA of $62,000. Six years ago ds was awarded $27,500 with a COA of around $52K.

 

Five full-ride Frederick Douglas scholarships are given each year.

Twenty-five Honors scholarships of $30,000 are given each year.

 

Some students accepted into the very competitive three-year programs (plus required summers) have received zero merit aid according to this year's results on College Confidential. Dd has her eye on one of those programs, alas.

[8filltheheart]

I have been away from this board for a long time but am returning because I wanted to reply to this

 

1) Have you considered schools in Texas with Russian and full-rides for MN finalists? Baylor, in particular, might be a good choice. UT Arlington, I think, also has Russian.

2) Have you looked at good but not elite liberal arts colleges (ie, American University) who may want to up their rankings. I know of people from a middle class background who have received a full or nearly full ride there on the basis of academics. IF the tests scores are high, some of the $$$$ liberal arts colleges might not be bad.

3) In terms of planning, if the goal is ACTFL superior in speaking (not just writing), study aboard is essential unless she is a heritage speaker. I don't think I've ever met someone as non-heritage speaker who achieved superior level language without going abroad or immersion in a local (usually Spanish) community. Further, as an adviser, it would be hard for me to take a language major seriously without time abroad in the target language. I would recommend at least a semester or summer abroad of both languages, but two years would have a lot of appeal for future opportunities--French early, Russian late.

4) One other thing to consider is areas of the country with a lot of Russian heritage speakers (ie, Boston, PNW etc), which might provide an avenue for conversations that are hard to get on campus

5) I would think about a minor linking her language skills with possible future opportunities (ie, international relations, business or economics, development, ESL etc). Given the language skills she is entering with this should be doable.

6) She should look into Boren, CLS and other scholarships (https://www.borenawards.org/boren_scholarship/basics.html)

(http://clscholarship.org/)

Thank you for sharing. I appreciate your taking time to log in and typing that out. Unfortunately, we have considered most of the options. Since you aren't a regular poster here, I'll try to fill in some details.

 

1-When we looked at Baylor, they didn't appear to have any any graduate level courses taught in Russian. (There were Russian studies courses with no Russian required.) UT-Austin has a fabulous Russian dept, but when we called, even an OOS tuition waiver is extremely, extremely unlikely.

 

2-we have not found any schools like American that offer scholarships that large. On reading College Confidential, it appears that the presidential scholarship covers 1 semester of tuition unless I am missing something. It looks like a lot of their $$ goes to meeting need via institutional grants. That is where we run into problems. We don't qualify for much need-based aid, but we can't afford to pay our parental contribution. We have 8 kids and that translates into non-stop college students for 25 yrs with an expected contribution of close to a total of $1,000,000 bc formulas are so heavily income based. No way we can afford to pay what the formulas say. (It really is laughable bc we are a very middle-middle class family living on an engineer's income.) A few like Tulane offer a handful of large scholarships, and she is going to apply to a couple, but we have to have realistic options.

 

Another issue is that we run into for extremely competitive scholarships is that a lot of them are heavily extra-curricular or leadership based. This dd was extremely ill last yr as a 10th grader. She spent most of the yr exhausted and not feeling well and ended up in a serious auto-immune flare. She was so weak she couldn't even sit up by herself for over 3 weeks. And even after that, she was so drugged with meds that life was a roller coaster. It has only been within the past few months that she has been more like her old self. But, being sick for 10th grade and part of 11th means that she lacks much of what those scholarships require.

 

3- I agree. She wants to study abroad. Living internationally has appeal. Foreign languages and cultures are the air she breathes. It is really bc she is scared of getting sick so far from home. Her experience from last yr this time is still fresh in her mind. I can understand bc I have only ever once been more scared as a parent and that is when our ds almost died from a pulmonary embolism. She really was just that ill. But she now has a diagnosis and it is being managed. She was reassured after she talked with the study abroad office and found out that in Russia she could do it via a partnership program. I think she imagined herself having to manage everything all by herself. I think as she moves through her sr yr and her freshman yr and her health remains stable, study abroad will move back into the opportunity of a lifetime like it was her dream prior to getting sick.

 

I also think she was shocked at the idea of being able to study abroad for 2 yrs on full scholarship. Most of the schools we have looked at it, 2 yrs wouldn't even be an option. Some of the schools have told us that 1 semester is the norm and that a yr would be expensive. When they told her a yr each, it caught her off guard. Over the past couple of days, she has started talking about the idea with more enthusiasm. She just needed to process the idea bc it wasn't one she had ever considered.

 

4-we haven't found any locations that are affordable. Temple says they have an outreach program with their Russian community, but so far that is the only high merit $$ school we have found. It is frustrating that all of the flagship programs are OOS tuition or extremely high priced private.

 

5-She is. She just isn't sure which direction she wants to go. We were at a university recently that told her that analysts are often recruited from the foreign lit dept. That appealed to her. She is also interested in linguistics. Math is actually her easiest subject. Someone recommended maintaining her math and working on translating math papers. (But she really doesn't love math.) She is also taking Econ this summer. She is only a high school Jr, so she still has time think things through.

 

6-all of the scholarships we have found are strictly for study abroad or summer programs. We haven't found any for actual UG costs. If there were scholarships for tuition at the flagships, that would be awesome.

 

Anyway, all of the above is why we have been focusing on automatic full-tuition/full-ride scholarships. I would love any other feedback you might have.

[8filltheheart]

France first is absolutely the way to go. She may even be able to keep up with her Russian while she is there. It looks like UK sends their humanities students to Marsailles, which has a Slavic department. You'd have to check the fine print. I know when I was studying abroad my home university had rules about studying another foreign language while you were abroad. They wanted us to focus on the language of our host university. However I don't know if that such a rule would apply to a double language major. It may also be possible to participate in classes informally, as it was at my host university. In that case what the home university doesn't know won't hurt them.

She isn't really concerned about maintaining her Russian while in France bc she was told she could do exactly what you suggested. She is concerned about her French while in Russia. I'm not sure what to say to her. I am wondering if she might be able to use Skype to just converse with French friends, but I really have no idea.

[Lawyer&Mom]

She isn't really concerned about maintaining her Russian while in France bc she was told she could do exactly what you suggested. She is concerned about her French while in Russia. I'm not sure what to say to her. I am wondering if she might be able to use Skype to just converse with French friends, but I really have no idea.

I was concerned about Russian in France. French in Russia will not be a problem. (Remember the Russian aristocracy was Francophone!) The American Council exchange program sends kids to Moscow and St. Petersburg. The Moscow program is at Moscow International University. They have a foreign language program which includes French. There is also the Moscow State Linguistics University which has an entire French Department... The St. Petersburg program is at the Herzen University which has a Romance Philology department, and a Linguistics department, and a foreign language pedagogy department. Whether she formally takes French classes or not, she will be able to find boatloads of French speakers. Honestly, her French skills will probably help her make Russian friends. (Taking a foreign language class in a different foreign country can be a great way to socialize where the linguistic playing field is less lopsided. Neither side has home team advantage.)

[8filltheheart]

I was concerned about Russian in France. French in Russia will not be a problem

 

Thanks for the info.  The Russian professor was familiar with a program in France that would allow her to maintain her Russian.  We didn't think to ask about the program in Russia for French. 

[3XBlessed]

We visited and toured ASU at end of May last year. It was very hot. The Barrett Honors program seems to offer a good solid education and strong support for motivated honors students. They get their own residence hall community, with very nice dorms, study rooms, dining hall, with advisors offices and honors classes held in the Barrett Honors complex. My impression was the honors advisers really help the honors students find opportunities. I think they even had an office to help the honors students apply successfully for outside fellowships and scholarships. It was not the right personality fit for my ds, who wants a more intense STEM environment, but I thought the Barrett program would be good for the right student.

 

The overall university seemed to have a strong sports focus. The stadium was in the center of campus. There were a lot of sports bars in the surrounding area, but it felt like it was safe.

[MarkT]

We visited and toured ASU at end of May last year. It was very hot. 

But it's a dry heat  :lol:

Welcome to AZ.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Does anyone have a student at ASU? We are running out of options to look at for our 11th grade dd and it is looking like ASU might be one of 2 schools that might work.

 

We just got home from a tour that went OK. The fit wasn't perfect bc dd is entering at such a high level of both Russian and French profiency and is beyond a lot of their students, but we left thinking she might be able to make it work. Then yesterday she got an email from one of the professors we met with (dd sat in on one for her classes) and she told dd what she really needs to look for in a dept and a list of schools to look into. (At least she is being 100% honest that their dept is really not a good match.)

 

Bc ASU has the obnoxious lab report hurdle, it is not a school I though we would ever, ever consider. But it is the only school on any list that at this point we can afford (and that is only if she does end up being a NMS, which at this point we think she whould be, but obviously no guarantees.)

 

Anyone have some encouraging words about ASU? I am ready to start crying bc we have visited just about every school we can afford and not one of them can really meet her language levels.

 

ASU is also an incredibly long way from here. I can't afford to pay for a visit unless we can really make it work as a viable option. :(

Let me encourage you on the lab report issue.

 

I was also really turned off by the requirement. Last year I was at a college fair and was able to talk to a member of their admissions staff about it. I came away much more positive about the school.

 

The adcon represented the lab statements as a state requirement that had been placed on them. He was a little annoyed that ASu had created an administrative way of meeting the requirement while University of Arizona seemed to be ignoring it.

 

He also said that they would accept other things as meeting the requirement. ACT science section scores, dual enrollment in a lab science or SAT subject test scores could be used in lieu of the write up.

 

He also left me with the impression that the lab report form wasn't going to be much of a screen to reject applications with. If your dd has the required high school sciences I think you can present them in an acceptable way.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thanks. Hot dd can deal with. We live in the South. The farthest north dd has ever lived is Richmond, VA. (I think study abroad in Russia is going to be a major shock to her system! ;) )

 

I am going to have dd contact both depts. I do wonder about ASU, though. I found one common data set that listed only 26 homeschooling applicants and 16 attending. With a university that large, obviously homeschoolers are not flocking there. The lab hurdle is obnoxious. But I wonder if there is more that I haven't noticed.

Does Arizona have charter schools with home study programs? Since those are public schools with a CEEB code they might not sort out as homeschool applicants.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Would schools recalculate need based on a financial aid appeal? It seems like you have just the sort of situation that an appeal would make sense for.

Maybe it is worth considering one or two elite schools with a big endowment. In the end the answer might be unworkable, but on the other hand they would have the financial basis to maybe meet more of the costs. I personally think self study while sick is a great and grit displaying life experience. Don't discount the impact she might have.  [ETA: I know you've been around the block a couple times with your older kids. I'm just thinking that your dd sounds like she might well stand out and that this might be an instance where the more invasive CSS Profile assessment could work in your favor by highlighting the demand that family size and college costs puts on your income.]

Do any of the schools offer combined 400/500 (undergrad with grad) courses. My non selective graduate university did this in German. It was a literature course in German. The class was about 6-7 people split by undergrad and graduate. We also had a couple native speakers using the course as an elective and at least one who had studied German for years in her native Yugoslavia. The previous year that course was taught by someone else with a different reading list. It might have been possible to take both courses and get credit for both. I offer this just as an example of how one school dealt with a small major. On paper it might have looked like there wasn't much on offer.

What about Uni of North Georgia and their Foreign Language Service school?

 

ETA:  I found a list of scholarships related to foreign language study.  Several have already been mentioned, but perhaps there are one or two that would be new to you.  http://www.bu.edu/mlcl/files/2013/05/Scholarships-for-students.pdf

Edited March 29, 2016 by Sebastian (a lady)

[8filltheheart]

Would schools recalculate need based on a financial aid appeal? It seems like you have just the sort of situation that an appeal would make sense for.

 

Maybe it is worth considering one or two elite schools with a big endowment. In the end the answer might be unworkable, but on the other hand they would have the financial basis to maybe meet more of the costs. I personally think self study while sick is a great and grit displaying life experience. Don't discount the impact she might have.  [ETA: I know you've been around the block a couple times with your older kids. I'm just thinking that your dd sounds like she might well stand out and that this might be an instance where the more invasive CSS Profile assessment could work in your favor by highlighting the demand that family size and college costs puts on your income.]

 

Do any of the schools offer combined 400/500 (undergrad with grad) courses. My non selective graduate university did this in German. It was a literature course in German. The class was about 6-7 people split by undergrad and graduate. We also had a couple native speakers using the course as an elective and at least one who had studied German for years in her native Yugoslavia. The previous year that course was taught by someone else with a different reading list. It might have been possible to take both courses and get credit for both. I offer this just as an example of how one school dealt with a small major. On paper it might have looked like there wasn't much on offer.

 

What about Uni of North Georgia and their Foreign Language Service school?

 

ETA:  I found a list of scholarships related to foreign language study.  Several have already been mentioned, but perhaps there are one or two that would be new to you.  http://www.bu.edu/mlcl/files/2013/05/Scholarships-for-students.pdf

 

Thanks for the ideas.  I have dd checking them out.  I'll report back after she tells me if she finds out anything new.  (In terms of having FA re-evaluated, we have never had a positive experience with it in terms of family size.  We did get a re-evaluation done successfully when a transfer included all of our move reimbursements were included on our w2 as income.  But that is about it.)

[Lecka]

This is dated information, but my best friend from high school had a friend who: took a large merit package from a school that gave really good NMS merit aide, and then spent 2 years studying abroad. All of his study abroad was paid for by the merit package.

 

I understand it worked out well for him! His Senior year he was in classes with my friend, and they were small honors (or whatever they would be called) classes.

 

If she might study abroad anyway ---- I think it is something to ask about wrt merit aide.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Lecka

[JanetC]

This is dated information, but my best friend from high school had a friend who: took a large merit package from a school that gave really good NMS merit aide, and then spent 2 years studying abroad. All of his study abroad was paid for by the merit package.

 

Conversely DD has an acceptance from a school (Lawrence) that does not let you apply any merit aid to study abroad. She really wants to study away, too.

[8filltheheart]

Would schools recalculate need based on a financial aid appeal? It seems like you have just the sort of situation that an appeal would make sense for.

 

Maybe it is worth considering one or two elite schools with a big endowment. In the end the answer might be unworkable, but on the other hand they would have the financial basis to maybe meet more of the costs. I personally think self study while sick is a great and grit displaying life experience. Don't discount the impact she might have. [ETA: I know you've been around the block a couple times with your older kids. I'm just thinking that your dd sounds like she might well stand out and that this might be an instance where the more invasive CSS Profile assessment could work in your favor by highlighting the demand that family size and college costs puts on your income.]

 

Do any of the schools offer combined 400/500 (undergrad with grad) courses. My non selective graduate university did this in German. It was a literature course in German. The class was about 6-7 people split by undergrad and graduate. We also had a couple native speakers using the course as an elective and at least one who had studied German for years in her native Yugoslavia. The previous year that course was taught by someone else with a different reading list. It might have been possible to take both courses and get credit for both. I offer this just as an example of how one school dealt with a small major. On paper it might have looked like there wasn't much on offer.

 

What about Uni of North Georgia and their Foreign Language Service school?

 

ETA: I found a list of scholarships related to foreign language study. Several have already been mentioned, but perhaps there are one or two that would be new to you. http://www.bu.edu/mlcl/files/2013/05/Scholarships-for-students.pdf

Dd spent some time digging around the info. Most of it she was familiar with, but she found something she hadn't heard of before when she followed the link, a co-oping opportunity. That was definitely not something she was aware of, so that has led her down some new paths to research.

 

Thanks!

[8filltheheart]

Conversely DD has an acceptance from a school (Lawrence) that does not let you apply any merit aid to study abroad. She really wants to study away, too.

Lawrence isn't alone. A lot of schools are like that. That is where all those study abroad scholarships really are helpful/necessary, but it sure would be nice to know that study abroad is already covered!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Dd spent some time digging around the info. Most of it she was familiar with, but she found something she hadn't heard of before when she followed the link, a co-oping opportunity. That was definitely not something she was aware of, so that has led her down some new paths to research.

 

Thanks!

 

She might also look into internships at government agencies.  Ole Miss has a nice list here: http://ciss.olemiss.edu/students/internship-coordinator/internship-opportunities/

 

Office of Naval Intelligence, Defense Intelligence Agency, etc are mostly staffed by civilians, with some military assigned.

[8filltheheart]

She might also look into internships at government agencies. Ole Miss has a nice list here: http://ciss.olemiss.edu/students/internship-coordinator/internship-opportunities/

 

Office of Naval Intelligence, Defense Intelligence Agency, etc are mostly staffed by civilians, with some military assigned.

Thanks. That is a great list. The idea of analyst is a new one for her, so this will help her get a feel for what those options are. I'm not sure I see her actually pursuing that, but an internship would be a great way to experience what it is like and if it is of real interest.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thanks. That is a great list. The idea of analyst is a new one for her, so this will help her get a feel for what those options are. I'm not sure I see her actually pursuing that, but an internship would be a great way to experience what it is like and if it is of real interest.

I noticed there were some dead links in that list. She might need to search directly with the agencies.

 

Also when I've looked in the past many of the application deadlines were in the fall for internships the following summer.

[katilac]

 The idea of studying abroad for 2 yrs is growing on her.   

 

 

Maybe also consider the possibility of only one semester in one of the countries, which sounds less overwhelming but still enables you to learn a tremendous amount. 

 

Or, possibly, doing a full year but one semester one year, another semester a different year? That would mean extra flight costs, but if everything else is paid it might be manageable for her to save it over time. 

 

Just the thought that she doesn't have to commit to 2 full years abroad might increase her comfort level. 

[irprof]

Sorry for the long delay in replying--you are correct that a lot of scholarships for study abroad will not help with overall cost, but are good because the prestige offers opportunities later and funding say summer study abroad might reduce costs (if you had to pay for study abroad, this could swap a funded summer experience for $$ or a funded semester in place of time in the US). The Kentucky option sounds like a great one if she gets the scholarship. I understand that foreign medical care can be scary (speaking from experience), but good planning and perhaps expat insurance (which might be affordable if there are not tuition costs) which could include medical relocation costs  might help with this. If she is good with Advanced High Russian, 1 semester would probably be fine.

 

One thing to consider in looking for backup schools from a financial perspective is that a focus on graduate level classes may not be essential, but rather the actual opportunities to take meaningful classes using the target language. For example, my undergraduate college did not have a graduate program in my language, but did have plenty of in class and out of class opportunities to use the language. Also, don't completely discount courses that are in English with assignments in Russian. I've taught a class on say economics of country X where the class was in English but language majors wrote their papers in the foreign language and had an oral exam with me--this is actually exactly the sort of professional switching someone in say an embassy will do in their job and something I'd wished I'd done more of.

 

Its been a few years since the student I know got the full tuition at American, so things may have changed. There are absolutely schools like this with lots of scholarship aid, but the Russian is the challenge given the relative paucity of departments. I know Tulane has a number (maybe 100) of full tuition scholarships and Russian (I think they call it something else like Slavic studies). Some of these schools may not be ideal with language two, but usually the abroad experience is the most important part of attaining true fluency, so given good opportunities to work on the target language abroad a weaker department in the states might not change her proficiency outcome. 

 

[swimmermom3]

Eight,

 

At the one option we have previously discussed, there is an out-of-state scholarship that would waive tuition costs for your dd. Is this still a possibility academically?

 

I know it's a long way from home.