Lab based science from a YEC pov... when you are not YEC

[AimeeM]

In a nutshell, I seriously doubt my ability to do lab based sciences at home with DD14. I have two (much!) younger little guys running around. Dual enrollment at the CC isn't an option until she's a junior or 17 years old.

The only co-op options in the area that offer lab based sciences use either the BJU or the Apologia texts. We are definitely NOT young earth. We are christian (Catholic specifically) but definitely prefer a theistic evolution approach to science (or a secular approach and we add in the religion where we deem appropriate). 

DH's degrees are in biology and physics related fields, but he doesn't have the time to implement labs with DD... and I'm not sure he's even going to be okay with her taking science with a backbone like the aforementioned texts, but I *really* do not feel like I have a choice.

 

Is there any way to do this successfully? Are there books that you can recommend I assign her to read (or I read aloud to her - she's dyslexic and struggles with reading more advanced books on her own) to "supplement" the science she would be doing at co-op?

[freesia]

Are the co-ops just the labs? It wouldn't matter what texts you were using if it were just labs. We, OEC, used Miller Levine.

 

Honestly, Bio labs were pretty easy for ds to do on his own. You could get a kit from quality science lab and have her work through them.

[AimeeM]

Are the co-ops just the labs? It wouldn't matter what texts you were using if it were just labs. We, OEC, used Miller Levine.

 

Honestly, Bio labs were pretty easy for ds to do on his own. You could get a kit from quality science lab and have her work through them.

No, they aren't just labs, but they are lab based. 

 

I can't trust that she has the ability to read through the instructions and safety manuals thoroughly enough on her own, that the labs would be safe for her to do on her own. 

 

With that said, I should probably delete the post. I just talked to DH and he said "no way," and is absolutely sure that he can do a couple hours worth of labs on the weekends with her. So, I may indeed have another option.

[freesia]

No, they aren't just labs, but they are lab based.

 

I can't trust that she has the ability to read through the instructions and safety manuals thoroughly enough on her own, that the labs would be safe for her to do on her own.

 

With that said, I should probably delete the post. I just talked to DH and he said "no way," and is absolutely sure that he can do a couple hours worth of labs on the weekends with her. So, I may indeed have another option.

Lol

Honestly, I can remember much safety involved--except dissecting and you could do that virtually. we did it all at once-3 dissections. I think your dh could easily manage bio labs on the weekends. Chem can be more fiddly, but fortunately my slap dash non-detailed oriented Ds has matured.

 

While I've used YEC science publishers for other grades and for chem, and adapted, I just couldn't for bio. But I think ktgrok is making it work. But if Dh nixed the idea-- you can make it work without the co-op. Really.

[Reefgazer]

Honestly, there are not many safety concerns with a basic biology lab.  If I were you, I would grab a Miller-Levine or Campbell Reese book and opt for some well-written, previously published labs that are simple and safe.  Mate the labs up with the appropriate chapter in the book.  A microscope (you can get a very nice one for $300-$400 at AMScope) can broaden your possibilities for lab exercises.  Here are some ideas that are self-directing and pretty much entirely safe:

 

 

1.  Virtual dissections of a frog and cat.

 

2.  Botany:  Dissecting a flower and examining the structure of roots, stems, leaves.  Models and diagrams online.

 

2.  Genetics:  Dragon Genetics

 

     http://www.cpet.ufl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Dragon-Genetics-Lab-Principles-of-Mendelian-Genetics.pdf

 

 

3.  If you can buy a microscope, order several slides with it (they are about $2 apiece or $50 for a set of 50).  Order several protist slides and the microscope work can be your protist kingdom lab.

 

 

4.  Biochemistry:  You can test food items in your kitchen for protein, fat, and carbohydrates with some iodine, a brown lunch sack,  and a few key, not-terribly-dangerous chemicals (Biuret reagent, Benedict's solution) from Home Science Training Tools.

 

 

5.  To study invertebrates, have her examine insects and do a pinning and identification lab for a, insect lab and collection:
 

http://deadinsects.net/

 

 

 

6.  Natural selection activity using colored yarn:  http://biologyjones.pbworks.com/f/Wooly+Worms.pdf

 

 

 

7.  Read up on ecology activities at the federal LTER (Long Term Ecological Research) site:

 

https://www.lternet.edu/

 

 

8.  A microscope lab where she learns the care and use of the microscope.  Can be combined with a few select bacterial slides that show various shapes of bacteria.  You can expand your bacteria lab with a homemade incubator (styrofoam cooler and a heat lamp) and some agar plates from Home Science Training Tools and test various surfaces of your home for bacterial growth. 

 

 

9.  A cell biology lab where you get a cheap bottle of methylene blue dye (I can send you some) and have her take cell scrapings from her cheek  and also put a thin slice of leaf under a scope to study plant and animal cell structure.  Augment with a collage of cell structures and you have a cell biology lab.

 

 

10.  When you order your slides, order a series of 4-5 chick embryo slides in various stages of development and you can build an embryology lab around that.

 

 

11.  If you are close to a museum with a paleontology section, that might be a nice lab excursion for evolution.

 

 

12.  A measurement lab (standard in all college bio 101 labs I've ever taught) is simple and requires no special equipment, just some problems for scientific notation and metric measurement devices (thermometer and metric ruler.

13.  You can buy dialysis tubing for an osmosis lab really cheap.

 

 

Check out this book for some easy, safe and self-directed biology labs:

 

 

http://smile.amazon.com/Exploring-Biology-Laboratory-Murray-Pendarvis/dp/0895827999/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1452914259&sr=8-3&keywords=exploring+biology+pendarvis+lab

 

 

No, they aren't just labs, but they are lab based. 

 

I can't trust that she has the ability to read through the instructions and safety manuals thoroughly enough on her own, that the labs would be safe for her to do on her own. 

 

With that said, I should probably delete the post. I just talked to DH and he said "no way," and is absolutely sure that he can do a couple hours worth of labs on the weekends with her. So, I may indeed have another option.

 

[AimeeM]

I'm sorry. I don't think I was clear on the type of science. She'll be doing physics next year, so it will be physics labs, not biology. DH is under the impression that YE is definitely something that will become an issue in physics. I'm not well versed enough on YE to know myself, lol.

Edited January 16, 2016 by AimeeM

[Arcadia]

Astronomy does fall under physics. Could she do video based physics with a textbook as reference? Then your husband can supervise her labs on weekends?

 

While there is nothing dangerous in physics lab compared to chemistry, your boys might be happy to mess the lab setup while your daughter is trying to record her observations..

[maize]

Physics could probably be done with a YEC class; could your dh go through the textbook beforehand and make note of things that would need correction/supplementation with a mainstream scientific viewpoint? Things like the laws of motion shouldn't be affected by a YEC point of view.

[AimeeM]

Astronomy does fall under physics. Could she do video based physics with a textbook as reference? Then your husband can supervise her labs on weekends?

 

While there is nothing dangerous in physics lab compared to chemistry, your boys might be happy to mess the lab setup while your daughter is trying to record her observations..

Hmm. She's using "Cosmos: Astronomy for the New Millennium" and Tarbuck's Earth Science this year. Not enough to qualify for physics, but she may be able to use a TC course or something similar, using a text only as reference, and then do labs on the weekends. 

 

The boys getting into her lab is a big potential problem. The Marvelous Flying Marco (DS3) would find a way to make dangerous even the most innocent of lab toys :P 

[Reefgazer]

Oops, sorry! I saw your DH has a degree in biology, and assumed!

 

Can she do Hewitt's Conceptual Physics (College or high school level, as appropriate), followed with Exploration Education's hands on exercises? That's what DD is doing now. Hewitt's is awesome, but the EE is somewhat easy for her. Self-directed, though, (and I'm not sure about this), but you might be able To buy a more advanced version. It comes with all the doodads you need for exercises, in a handy little box. It is combined chemistry and physics, but we just do the physics portions this year.

 

I'm sorry. I don't think I was clear on the type of science. She'll be doing physics next year, so it will be physics labs, not biology. DH is under the impression that YE is definitely something that will become an issue in physics. I'm not well versed enough on YE to know myself, lol.

Edited January 16, 2016 by reefgazer

[AimeeM]

Oops, sorry! I saw your DH has a degree in biology, and assumed!

 

Can she do Hewitt's Conceptual Physics (College or high school level, as appropriate), followed with Exploration Education's hands on exercises. That's what DD is doing now. Hewitt's is awesome, but the EE is somewhat easy for her. Self-directed, though.

 

He has degrees in bio and physics related fields, so he's comfortable doing labs in either. The real problem is going to be when we come to chemistry. DH obviously understands some... but it's by far not his favorite and the one he feels most hesitant to instruct in. 

 

I didn't think conceptual physics was considered strong enough to be counted as a physics credit. I could be wrong - just the impression I got from reading past threads here :) 

[Arcadia]

I didn't think conceptual physics was considered strong enough to be counted as a physics credit. I could be wrong - just the impression I got from reading past threads here :)

Here is a thread :). There are more threads

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/322971-non-mathy-physics-in-9th-is-conceptual-physics-a-solid-high-school-course/

[Sebastian (a lady)]

We are Christian, but not YEC.  I was not willing to use Apologia Biology or General Science or Physical Science.

 

We did use Apologia Chemistry and Apologia Physics.  

 

Chemistry was partly done with a coop group where they did the labs in coop under the instruction of a dear friend of mine, who was fantastic about leading the kids through the labs and helping them understand how the labs tied in with the topic of the chapter.  This was her third time teaching the chemistry lab.  

 

For physics we started out using College Physics by Knight & Jones.  It was a good book, but my kids were on the young side and were not as strong in the required math as they needed to be.  It is a good option if you are looking for an algebra based physics, but isn't as widely used as other college physics texts, so it is harder to find syllabuses to model on.

 

My oldest has been dual enrolled this year for General Chemistry (which is the most demanding chemistry course offered at his CC).  He has really enjoyed himself and has loved having the well equipped lab facilities.  I loved that I didn't have to mix or store chemicals..  I have not heard him say that he felt underprepared from having used Apologia.  My judgement was that the YEC content in Chemistry and Physics was easier to ignore than what was in Biology, General Science or Physical Science.  

 

Another possibility is to look at Kolbe Academy.  I used their Biology course plans quite happily.  They use secular texts that are common in public schools, then include Biblical teaching in the course plan.  If you aren't interested in the Christian perspective, it is easy to line through those parts of the week's assignments.  Kolbe also has course plans available for Chemistry and Physics.  

 

I wish I could say that it was an option to simply pick a text used in public or private schools and buy the student and teacher materials.  Unfortunately, some publishers make it difficult if not impossible to get access to teacher materials or answer keys.  Using Kolbe means that you can get an answer key for the problems assigned in the course plan.  Biology also came with access to the online resources and virtual lab.  http://kolbe.org/homeschool/courses/high-school/science-curriculum/

 

ETA: Kolbe Academy is a Catholic provider so they may be a good fit for you.  I've really liked what I've used from them for Biology.  I did add wet labs to the virtual labs that Kolbe schedules.  We didn't use their Physics so I'm not sure what their Physics labs include.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Sebastian (a lady)

[creekland]

We are Christian, but do not take a stance on creation fully believing God could have done whatever He wanted to do from Theistic Evolution to a Literal Creation.  To us, that falls far more into Ancient History than Science.  Science is what we see (seeing can be via tests) and can replicate.

 

Since so many have varying views on it all, I wanted my guys to know both - with a decent number of variations, so all of that was part of our discussions over the years.

 

We used multiple Bio books - Apologia, Campbells, McGraw Hill (what our school uses if I'm remembering it correctly).  Apologia was a pretty darn good beginner book - beating what our school uses (for depth) by miles.  Campbell's (college level book) was terrific at taking the foundation and going deeper.  Apologia's Advanced Bio was a super good Anatomy book.

 

Physical Science and Physics were good for beginners as well - it provided a nice foundation in an easy to learn way.  None of mine cared to go deeper on those subjects, so we didn't.  I don't recall YEC being a big deal in those books, but I didn't read them. I only discussed concepts and corrected problems - explaining more if needed.

 

Chemistry is the one I would change in hindsight.  As with Bio, I should have added more (but I only thought to for Bio for obvious reasons).  Chem did not go deep enough and taught things in a different order so if one didn't do both years, one missed a bit - and it still didn't do that great a job at setting up a good college foundation.  If I had it to do over again, I'd likely use Zumdahl, but it'd have required a bit more work as it's not set up as a homeschooling text with tests, etc, pre-made.

 

ALL of my final assessments regarding what we used have come from my middle son - my science major who has needed all of these courses in college.  He's gotten As in his college courses (well, an A- in his second Physics course), and I truly wanted to know if he felt I had set him up well for college...  

 

Bio - absolutely - esp doing Anatomy with Apologia's Bio 2 book.  He said that set him up far better than his peers for many of his classes.

 

Physics - fine - it's not his love, but he felt good foundationally.

 

Chem - he agrees that adding more or completely doing something else would have been better.  He still got his As (and was a TA for the class later, but he had to put in far more effort due to not having as strong of a foundation).

 

ps  Learning about both evolution and creation (from pro sides, not just one sided) is also something they have thanked me for.  It's actually been useful for them in peer conversations.  Knowing about creation certainly didn't stop middle son from getting the highest grade in his Evolution class!  I'm not sure why some feel knowing about something equates with not knowing other things.... 

[Professormom]

We come from the theistic evolution side as well, and I have been in a lab based on Apologia this year. I struggled with this too. What I have ended up doing is using the Miller Levine bio book with the Kolbe Academy syllabus and exams for our study. I also found videos online etc. The lab is a local group, definitely YEC, which I knew going in. I told the leader up front where we were, and that ds would be skipping the module on evolution completely, and using the different text for everything else. I borrowed an apologia text from a friend so I could make sure he was covering in his reading that they were covering in labs. We talked a lot about how to discuss things politely and be respectful for the teacher. However, he was also to come to me with anything that he was confused about.

 

It has been... Ok. He likes the actual lab work. However, in our case, there has been a situation of preaching/trying to convert that came up in the last few weeks as we approached the evolution segment. I needed to reiterate why we weren't coming to the class on evolution and there was some awkwardness there. I was very close to pulling him, but he wants to keep going. We talk about everything too, so it gives us lots to discuss:-) We are Christian, but not YEC, and hearing that Ken Ham is a hero of our age almost put me over the top. As a family, we did the pro/con thing, and the lab instruction and the respect for our friends involved trumped the problems. And the lab is only a couple of hours every couple of weeks.

 

Many homeschooling families in our area hold to the yec beliefs, so it has actually been helpful to have these conversations with ds. As always, an unexpected learning experience, lol.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Professormom

[Professormom]

Oh nuts. I didn't read all of the replies and didn't realize you were talking about physics. Sorry about that.

[AimeeM]

Oh nuts. I didn't read all of the replies and didn't realize you were talking about physics. Sorry about that.

No worries :) All of the replies have been helpful, no matter the field of science.

To the best of my knowledge, this co-op doesn't allow students to opt out of modules, but I could be mistaken. Regardless, DH doesn't want to even mess with it and he said he'll find time to run labs with her so we can keep the science at home.

[Kathy in Richmond]

http://www.theoldschoolhouse.com/Homeschool_Reviews/reviews.php?rid=1233 We've used several Julicher manuals over the years. 

 

https://www.homeschoolsciencepress.com/shop/experiences-in-physics-ebook

 

We also used several Julicher lab books. Physics was a favorite here, and I'm glad for your link since I couldn't find it for sale anywhere over the past few years.  Good to see that they're back in business, even if the books are only available as e-editions now.

 

[G5052]

Yes, I'm using the Julicher physics book next year with my younger one. She loves labs and needs a less math-intense approach, so we're going that way with a mix of resources.