Are most children capable of reading before writing?

[FO4UR]

That would be lovely :001_smile:

 

That is precisely where I'm getting hung up. My almost 7 year old writes excellent cursive. I like that. I don't want to mess that up. I also want my almost 5 year old to learn cursive first as he did. BUT, I'm noticing that OG programs use manuscript tracing. The big question for me is does it work to trace the letter in cursive (feel the "t" in cursive for example) while reading it in manuscript? Is it really necessary to trace it in manuscript? There was a time in history where children only learned cursive in elementary and still read fine. But was that true even for those with dyslexia, or did they miss out? Even manuscript doesn't look exactly like bookface, especially the "a" and "g". Dancing Bears seems to have solved that issue by having the child read in only their print. Eventually, of course, they would have to transition out of that. I suppose I could have my kids start out reading only cursive, such as blend phonics, Word Mastery or Alpha Phonics in cursive. I'm a little nervous about having my kids trace manuscript with their finger and then expecting them to write in cursive. Isn't tracing similar to writing in terms of muscle memory?

 

 

 

Don't upset the cursive, I agree.

 

This conundrum is exactly why I'm using D'Nealian. I started my oldest with cursive also.  Going between DN Manuscript & cursive is fairly seamless both ways.

 

I use various font flashcards to review the sounds to deal with bookface. Play memory match with a, g, r, s, k, ...those letters that vary within the fonts.  Kids pick this up super fast.  It's only an issue in the early stages, if at all.

 

At this point, learning to read is Priority #1.  A short sentence of cursive copywork daily is enough to keep it fresh while he's learning to read regardless of what you use, but cursive is secondary to learning to read.

 

Build everything around what works to get him reading. It's a short season. Then priorities can shift.

[MistyMountain]

One child learned to read, write and spell at the same time. The spelling and writing was not that far behind the reading. The next child was reading before spelling or writing and the spelling lags behind the reading and is very phonetic. My youngest is in the beginning stages. She can grab the correct letters for spelling a simple word but is not blending on her own yet. She also cannot write yet.

 

I think a lot of kids our capable of writing and reading at the same time because a lot if kids are learning reading in kindergarten and 1st grade. I think spelling and writing is often not as strong though. Early readers whose motor skills are developing at a more typical pace or even behind will obviously be reading before they can write. All kids are different in how skills develop compared to others.

[gratitude]

My first figured out reading and writing at ages 3/4. I read to him. His reading though way out soared his writing until 5th.

 

My second could out spell his older brother before he could read or write. Writing came first and reading second.

 

My third learned both around the same time and then her reading soared way past her writing. She is now in 3rd.

 

I think it depends on the child.

 

Phonics, by the way, are important for spelling and sounding out advanced words. Phonics though can be learned with spelling, if they figure out reading without them.

[sweetpea3829]

For all of mine, learning to read, write and spell were skills that developed concurrently, building off one another. First we started with identifying the letters and sounds. Then we worked on phonemic awareness skills. Somewhere around there, we began learning how to form the letters.

 

Then we worked on putting sounds together and progressed from there. Once well established with basic CVC blending, I would add in ETC, which required some spelling.

 

At the same time, writing development has continued to the point where my child COULD complete an ETC page. And, the ETC pages help with learning how to read!

 

Eventually I add in AAS.

 

So the three skills do develop somewhat independently, but concurrently and tied in with one another.

[vonfirmath]

Don't upset the cursive, I agree.

 

This conundrum is exactly why I'm using D'Nealian. I started my oldest with cursive also.  Going between DN Manuscript & cursive is fairly seamless both ways.

 

I use various font flashcards to review the sounds to deal with bookface. Play memory match with a, g, r, s, k, ...those letters that vary within the fonts.  Kids pick this up super fast.  It's only an issue in the early stages, if at all.

 

Wednesday night, I was reading to my 4 year old and she pointed to the a and wondered why there was a "6" there.  AFter I figured out what she was talking about, I told her that in typewritten stuff (like books) sometimes "a"s were made differently, (looking like a backwards 6). But it was an a. And after that she pointed out every a she saw! We'll see if it sticks.

 

[SporkUK]

My 6 year old has been able to write letters and words neatly for over a year now. She could write many letters before she could remember their sounds or names and enjoys writing on her own. She enjoys copywork and most things related to writing. She's generally a hands-on child. 

 

Reading still hasn't really clicked for her - she really struggles to retain anything to do with it. It's moved forward a lot in the last few months, but she's still struggling with some CVC and similar short/first sounds and basic words ["the" is the bane of out reading time]. The break we had to take over the holidays because of back to back serious illnesses has sadly really set her back. 

 

My older if I remember correctly were similar in getting writing easier and faster than reading skills, though their reading and writing skills mainly grew side-by-side rather than having such obvious differences as M does. 

Edited January 15, 2016 by SporkUK

[frogger]

In answer to the first question I would say most children learn reading first but there are many who learn the other way.

 

My third child needed to actively put a word together himself before he remembered the word. He is a strong concrete tactile learner. I would say this is a slower process though. He is ten and not a strong reader but he is definitely progressing now that I know that. Whether that is because I didn't figure it out quick enough and change methods or he was just going to take longer either way, I can't say.

 

 

I am somewhat baffled by the idea of spelling first. Not that I don't think it is possible or happens, but I'm curious as t how one spells without reading. DD now spells words she knows, but only ones she can read. Can your kids read the words they spell? I'm interested in how spelling before reading works.

[frogger]

Duplicate post

Edited January 16, 2016 by frogger

[J-rap]

If you are talking about phonetic reading, then I vote no. 

 

It's my experience that if they really understand the phonetics of a letter, then they can write it as well as read it.

 

[CatholicMom]

My kids definitely learn to read earlier than they learn to write and the two skills don't seem to match up at all until maybe 4th grade.

[greyseal]

I sure hope so. My DS5 is reading and spelling fine, but seriously can barely trace letters and has no stamina whatsoever.  :lol:  

Edited January 15, 2016 by greyseal

[Caviar]

Whew!  What a topic.  I'd have to say that most kids learn to read first, and then write, but is that because we push reading first?  I know that AAR recommends that you do their AAR Level 1 first, before you start their AAS Level 1.  Then, there's SWR which definitely combines it altogether.  In that program a child learns Cursive First and all the phonograms, and begins spelling before they are ever prompted to read a book.  I use both programs - shhh, don't tell!  My ds7 will be finishing AAR 1 in about one week - it took us 1 1/2 years to get through it.  He really had no desire to want to learn how to read, but he can write his name in cursive beautifully!

[ElizabethB]

I am somewhat baffled by the idea of spelling first. Not that I don't think it is possible or happens, but I'm curious as t how one spells without reading. DD now spells words she knows, but only ones she can read. Can your kids read the words they spell? I'm interested in how spelling before reading works.

Both my children were good at memorizing things and memory games, I think they were memorizing strings of letters. When they were each 4, I had to start paying attention to not lose by an embarassing margin on those flip over a card matching games. When they were each around 5, no matter how hard I tried or how much I concentrated, I could not win. (They are still good at it, but about when they each turned 5 was when they got better than me at those games. My husband lasted a month or so longer than me until he could not win.)

 

Blending is a developmental skill. My daughter could blend earlier than my son. They probably could have memorized some sight words as wholes, but I am very against after all my remedial students that so I focused on spelling and I modeled blending until they could blend on their own.

[ReadingMama1214]

Both my children were good at memorizing things and memory games, I think they were memorizing strings of letters. When they were each 4, I had to start paying attention to not lose by an embarassing margin on those flip over a card matching games. When they were each around 5, no matter how hard I tried or how much I concentrated, I could not win. (They are still good at it, but about when they each turned 5 was when they got better than me at those games. My husband lasted a month or so longer than me until he could not win.)

 

Blending is a developmental skill. My daughter could blend earlier than my son. They probably could have memorized some sight words as wholes, but I am very against after all my remedial students that so I focused on spelling and I modeled blending until they could blend on their own.

That makes sense. I could see my DD thriving with sight words. We don't do them other than the few in OPGTR, but when she comes across a word in a book that could be a sight word and asks me what it is, she seems to internalize it. For example, she was reading a phonics reader that had the word "me" in it. I told her that was me and explained how the "e" says its name then. She then kept talking about how she was going to write "m e me" on her white board. I wouldn't be surprised if it stuck.

[ElizabethB]

That makes sense. I could see my DD thriving with sight words. We don't do them other than the few in OPGTR, but when she comes across a word in a book that could be a sight word and asks me what it is, she seems to internalize it. For example, she was reading a phonics reader that had the word "me" in it. I told her that was me and explained how the "e" says its name then. She then kept talking about how she was going to write "m e me" on her white board. I wouldn't be surprised if it stuck.

You taught it phonetically, not by sight, that is good!

 

If you come across some that are trickier than "me," here is how to teach all but 2 of the most common 220 Dolch sight words and 100 Fry Instant words phonetically:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/sightwords.html

[ReadingMama1214]

You taught it phonetically, not by sight, that is good!

 

If you come across some that are trickier than "me," here is how to teach all but 2 of the most common 220 Dolch sight words and 100 Fry Instant words phonetically:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/sightwords.html

Thanks! We have come across a few in BOB books, but not too many yet. I plan to use your concentration game for review this weekend.