Latin grammar poll

[Shukhov]

I'm wondering what the reaction is to the following proposition and why.

 

Proposition: It is possible to teach all the grammar a child needs by only teaching them Latin grammar.

 

Agree?

Disagree?

 

Why?

[magistramom]

I'm leaning to agreeing, but have to admit that we did have quite a vocab base built up by the time all the chants were memorized. You really need to have all the chants down and truly understand them. You can then start parsing sentences quite easily (Lingva Latina is a fun book to start with for parsing).

[Jami]

I think it can be done...by a teacher who knows both Latin and English grammar very well. English grammar is still taught, but Latin is the context in which it's taught. I don't think MOST of us probably know either well enough to not get a little help. I know I don't. But historically, English grammar wasn't a separate subject and plenty of very skilled writers and speakers seem to have been educated in that way.

[SkateLeft]

I don't use a curriculum for English grammar, preferring to teach grammar informally, and in the context of Latin. I also forgo spelling and vocabulary programs.

 

This year, after 5 years of Latin, my oldest daughter is very successfully using Wheelock's Latin, a grammar intensive program, and one which I used as a freshman Classics major in college. A strong grammar background is essential to succeeding with Wheelock's, and it's clear to me that my daughter was adequately prepared for that level of grammar by her previous years of Latin study. She was certainly more prepared than I was by my 4 years of high school English! :lol:

 

She also successfully took two writing classes this summer at the state university, earning A's in both courses. Not bad for a kid who has never done a grammar workbook! :D

[Peela]

I suspect it is possible, if you already know Latin and English grammar really well. You could teach the concepts in Latin but you would still have to transfer them across to English.

I think its possible to teach anything without a curriculum if you already feel comfortable with the subject. My daughter has been telling me she learns so much grammar through Latin. But she also needs to and does learn grammar in context through writing. Its not like you could just learn grammar in Latin and that would be enough if you never used it in English. What's the point?

Even though it is technically possible, the vast majority of us are not profficient enoguh in Latin and/or grammar to pull it off.

If I had a younger child coming up, which I dont, knowing what I know now....I could/would maybe do it.

[Karenciavo]

I think it can be done...by a teacher who knows both Latin and English grammar very well.

 

I suspect it is possible, if you already know Latin and English grammar really well. You could teach the concepts in Latin but you would still have to transfer them across to English.

I think its possible to teach anything without a curriculum if you already feel comfortable with the subject.

 

Yes, I think this is the secret.

[Sahamamama]

Shukhov --

 

Have you seen this?

 

http://www.thelatinroad.com/

 

Hope this helps!

[Colleen in NS]

Yes, I think this is the secret.

 

:iagree: with what she quoted and said.

 

There is no way I could teach English grammar through Latin - I don't know either subject well enough yet. So we need separate programs to walk me through teaching step by step in each language.

[Jenny in Atl]

:iagree: with what she quoted and said.

 

There is no way I could teach English grammar through Latin - I don't know either subject well enough yet. So we need separate programs to walk me through teaching step by step in each language.

 

Me too! I feel like Latin is reinforcing all of our English grammar work.

[abbeyej]

I think it's possible, but challenging. It requires a teacher who knows English *and* Latin grammar inside out, and who is committed to teaching them simultaneously. It also requires including English grammar and mechanics instruction along with writing. Absolutely doable, but very few of us are prepared to do it well.

 

I also find that among my Latin students, the ones who study (even just a little) English grammar as well tend to have a better understanding of grammar concepts. I have no doubt that my Latin students have a better understanding of grammar than students who aren't getting Latin! ;) But studying both seems to be symbiotic -- working with each gives a better understanding of both.

[sagira]

Great thread. Just wanted to say, wonderful, sailmom! Your story is inspiring and encouraging :)

 

As a person who has studied Dutch grammar alongside English grammar, I can say that Latin would most likely help very much. However, this also depends on a few factors:

 

- a priority given to good grammar and usage

- level of teacher's ease in instructing grammar

- student's ability

 

BTW, m y plan is to do gentle English grammar teaching starting in 2nd, then Latin starting in 4th or 5th.

[Mama Lynx]

I come down on the side of "Yes, if the teacher is knowledegable about grammar."

 

That said, I studied very little formal grammar in school. When I picked up Henle to teach myself Latin, I learned English grammar concepts I had never heard of. So when I took myself through Henle, I learned a good bit about English grammar.

 

We more or less do the same grammar exercise in both languages, and of course translating Latin requires a constant review of grammar.

[Testimony]

I was studying online English grammar. If you go back to the 1800s, you will see that the English is similar to the Latin. When you put the "thees" and "thous" back into the language, you really start to see the crossover of Latin into English.

 

I agree though that if you have a very strong English grammar background, you could get away with teaching only grammar through Latin. I learned Latin as a child and I did not have a good grammar background. I never made the connection until I started teaching Latin to my children.

 

I teach Latin and English grammar seperately this year because I want them to grasp the language. I think teaching them simulateously helps them to grasp the concepts better.

 

Blessings in your homeschooling journey.

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[clwcain]

I learned no English grammar until I studied Latin. We will not be teaching English grammar as its own subject. They'll learn Latin and Greek.

[frogpond1]

but I prefer to keep them both going because both Latin grammar and English grammar seem to help each other out. I don't do English grammar past Shurley 7 though. From then on it is all Latin grammar.

[Mom to 3 Island Boys]

I believe that you COULD (and some do) learn English grammar through your Latin studies. But, I personally find that my kids, with strong backgrounds in English grammar before we begin studying Latin, are able to concentrate on the many intricacies of Latin without the added complication of having to figure out NEW grammar. Learning Latin is definitely an excellent, unparalleled review of grammar usage, but we would have to move at a much slower pace and devote more time to Latin studies if it was the first time they had faced these grammar terms. I personally believe the two (English grammar and Latin) go hand in hand ~ both are important in their own right, but they also back each other up. Any studying you do with one seems to reinforce the studying you do with the other. So, at least so far, we continue to study a separate Grammar curriculum.

[Cindyg]

Possible? I don't know. But practical for the average mom and dad who don't even know Latin themselves? No.

 

In our homeschool, we're studying Latin; but we have plenty of time to study English grammar too. I can't imagine teaching outlining, sentence diagramming, and punctuation in Latin. These are easy to teach in English. :)

[Melissa in Australia]

well, this is what I am planing to do.

my son is 1/2 way through rod and staff 7. I am going to stop doing grammar after this , and he is going to do writing strands instead. ( he is very poor at writing) and he is going to start henle Latin. ( just finishing up on Latina Christiana 2) .

He already has more grammar than most Australians ( where Grammar isn't really taught). and I am hoping that all the grammar he is going to learn in Henle will be a reinforcement of all the grammar he has learnt in English.

[EKS]

I suppose you could, but I prefer to have the Latin grammar reinforce what my son already knows about English grammar. Sort of like how learning about base 6 helps you understand base 10 in math.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

The Latin Road claims to teach both Latin and English grammar, but TWTM says that you still need an English grammar course, even if you use this for Latin. I think you can find it in the chapter on languages for the logic stage.