Singapore to Saxon? Placement tests accurate?

[Mom2pandc]

My dd9 is currently doing Singapore 4A. I'm struggling with if I should switch to Saxon for many reasons, one being the daily review might be beneficial for her. She completely understands the processes of math. She is, however, kind of slow with math fact recall. It is something we are working on, and she usually gets to the right answer, it just takes her time to rationalize her way to it...like she has to "prove" it to herself logically in her head before she says the answer, or writes it down. It's strange...like I can see the wheels in her head working it out.

 

I gave her the Saxon placement test today though and to my somewhat surprise she breezed through the test that would place her in 6/5. She is halfway done with the next test and has gotten 11 out of 12 correct. It says if she gets more than 16 out of 20 correct she would be ready for 7/6. Looking at the remaining problems, I don't think she will miss 3 of them. She's taking a break to work on other stuff and will finish this up later though.

 

I guess I'm a little taken aback that my 4th grader would be in a 6th grade level book. There are two things I don't want to happen though; it be too hard and she gets frustrated quickly or it goes too slow and she gets frustrated because it's too easy. That's what the battle with Singapore is right now. We come to sections that are just too easy and I try to bounce her through quickly but I don't want to make the mistake of moving her through too fast either.

 

I sound like a goldilocks. I want it juuuuuusssst right. Lol.

My main question is, if I decide to move her to Saxon, are the placement tests accurate?

My secondary question is, is here some way for me to adjust Singapore to skip over the easier parts for her instead of making her do most of the lessons out of fear of her missing something that she will need later in the process. I have Singapore all the way through 5B and it would save money to just keep with it. But she's frustrated with feeling like it's too easy.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Mom2pandc

[sunshineslp]

wow, too easy, that's great!  i have always heard SM is very easy to accelerate or slow down... but I have not used it.  I do know that Saxon placement tests appear to be accurate.  I think SM is so much more advanced than Saxon andthatis why she placed higher.  Saxon is great but the conceptual teaching I think works wonders in SM.

 

So I have a question for YOU if you don't mind, I am considering switching to SM for my 2nd grader. Do you find it difficult to teach? I am not terribly mathy but I know enough to be helpful:)

[The Governess]

I would think of Saxon 6/5 as a 5th grade book, which gets a typical student to algebra in 8th if you don't need to do both 8/7 and Algebra 1/2. I have used both programs and believe Singapore is definitely accelerated compared to Saxon. I compared 7/6 and Singapore 5 and topics covered were very similar. My daughter easily went from Singapore 5 to a pre-algebra text.... I don't think you could do that after Saxon 6/5.

 

Personally, I prefer Singapore, but I do have a kid who needs daily practice for retention, so she uses both programs. If you switch to Saxon, I would start her in 6/5 if that's where she places, or Saxon intermediate 5.

 

With Singapore, what parts are too easy for her?

Edited November 20, 2015 by lovelearnandlive

[Mom2pandc]

I switched my daughter (the one I'm asking about) into 2B from math mammoth when she was in 2nd grade. I don't find it too hard to teach. We liked it better than MM because it was a lot less cluttered. There were just too many problems per page on MM. Even if she wasn't doing all of them she had a hard time focusing on the ones she did need to do. Singapore is much more visually appealing to her.

I have purchased the teachers manuals but rarely use them. Only if I find I'm having a hard time explaining something. For the most part we just work our way through the examples and then I turn her lose in the workbook. I'm not sure if I'm doing it completely "the Singapore way" but I must be doing something right. Haha!

I'd say give it a try. You can buy just one half of the year and it's fairly inexpensive and they have decent resale.

FYI I've been using the standards editions.

[Mom2pandc]

I would think of Saxon 6/5 as a 5th grade book, which gets a typical student to algebra in 8th if you don't need to do both 8/7 and Algebra 1/2. I have used both programs and believe Singapore is definitely accelerated compared to Saxon. I compared 7/6 and Singapore 5 and topics covered were very similar. My daughter easily went from Singapore 5 to a pre-algebra text.... I don't think you could do that after Saxon 6/5.

 

Personally, I prefer Singapore, but I do have a kid who needs daily practice for retention, so she uses both programs. If you switch to Saxon, I would start her in 6/5 if that's where she places, or Saxon intermediate 5.

 

With Singapore, what parts are too easy for her?

As of right now it looks like she should start in the 7/6 book though. My son has also gone from Singapore 5 straight into pre algebra and thus far it seems to be fine. So I agree that Singapore is great. I guess I'm just wondering if the grass is greener. Haha. She flew through the whole fraction section in 4A and almost daily said it was too easy. Until we got to multiplying a whole number by a fraction. That actually took the 2 lessons for her to understand and now she's mastered that too. Looking forward with angles and the geometry sections I think she can blow through them. I am debating on just giving her the end of lesson reviews to see how she does instead of the 10 or so lessons that covers that.

[sweetpea3829]

So, my son tends to blow through Singapore quite easily, too. Not wanting to accelerate him too quickly, we've taken a few steps to slow him down. For one, I try to gauge whether or not a new topic will take him time to absorb, or if he'll likely get it right away. Either way, we at least touch upon every topic so I can make sure he has no gaps.

We also switch things up with Beast Academy, and that adds depth. Then, we also take time to really focus on problem solving, too.

Finally, for all of my kids, I build spiral review into their daily work folders. I get those sources from a variety of places. The Singapore test book, online, etc.

Recently, I signed all for up for Prodigy Math, which is an online role play game that requires them to solve math in order to defeat their opponents. It's like Khan Academy, but far more engaging. And it is highly customizable, which means I can add all of their spiral review topics into the game and ensure they are reviewing whatever it is I want them to review. It really is great.

Only downside is, if you don't pay for the membership, your kids WILL ask you frequently to upgrade to the membership. The free version has all of the same academics but the paid version has more game options for the players, and it constantly reminds them off the cool things they can do if they have a paid membership. The paid for membership is $9/month PER KID!

Other than that, we love it.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Sweetpea3829

[RootAnn]

The Saxon placement tests are accurate (unless you are already using Saxon) except if they barely test into a level. It doesn't sound like that is the case with your kid.  There is so much review in Saxon that you shouldn't miss anything by testing into a higher level.

 

Based on what you said, I'm not sure the grass will be greener for you. Do you use the Singapore IP books? If not, you could use those a level behind (so, 3B since you are in 4A) for the review.

 

[mom2att]

I wouldn't switch. Sounds like Singapore is working great, and if you feel it is too easy, add one of the extra practice books. For a kid moving quickly through Singapore, the switch to the slow pace of Saxon could be a math killer.

 

I use and love Saxon with my boys. My daughter used Singapore until Pre-Algebra. She would have hated Saxon, and she didn't need its slow pace or its constant review.

 

I say the grass is NOT greener.

Edited November 21, 2015 by mom2att

[KarenNC]

We switched from Singapore to Saxon at the point where you are because Singapore was moving too quickly for my daughter. She cried over math daily and thought she was stupid. Saxon was a lifesaver for us! I did make a mistake in placement initially. Because she tested at just one point under moving to 7/6, I assumed that all the review in Saxon meant we could just start there rather than 6/5 as long as we did a little extra work in decimals and percents using the "Key to..." books. I was wrong. We had to drop back and test through 6/5, stopping to work lessons when she did not score well on the tests, in order to cover some of the gaps inherent in switching programs.

 

I don't think I would place a child who finds Singapore too easy into Saxon. I would probably look into AoPS (though I'm not sure of the level that starts). For math fact recall, xtramath.org was a free online program that finally got my daughter fluent with her math facts and was not "babyish."

[Momling]

It sounds like Singapore is working well... I wouldn't switch. But if you want daily review, consider adding in Math Minutes. Just begin each day with a quick five minute review of math. They run a little easy so maybe choose a year ahead.

 

http://www.christianbook.com/grade-math-minutes-hundred-better-skills/sarah-fornara/9781574718164/pd/718169?event=ESRCG|M

Edited November 22, 2015 by Momling

[hellen]

Some kids just take longer with math fact recall. My son is really good at math but he was slow with those math facts. It took him just as long to compute 7x3 as it did 16×8. He finally got those multiplication facts down faster now that he's in 5th.

[blondeviolin]

My oldest isn't doing Singapore, but I would say the placement tests are rather accurate. My daughter placed out of 54 and 65. I foolishly placed her in 54 thinking easy would be good and confidence building. Now we are quickly compacting 54 and adding Beast.

 

For math facts practice, we invested in Reflex Math and that has been SO GOOD here.

[Jackie]

If Singapore is being breezed through, I can't imagine Saxon being a good fit. Singapore is much more challenging than Saxon, as evidenced by your placement test. If you aren't already using the IP and CWP, I would add those.

[kbutton]

If Singapore is being breezed through, I can't imagine Saxon being a good fit. Singapore is much more challenging than Saxon, as evidenced by your placement test. If you aren't already using the IP and CWP, I would add those.

 

Agreed. Especially IP. We use the IP on level, but we're weird like that. 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

It sounds like SM is a huge success, if she is placing so high on the placement tests!!!  Why switch?  

 

To speed up SM, double up chapters- one hard chapter with one easy chapter, and do 2 lessons a day.  So for SM4, I would double up decimals with shapes/graphs for example.  We are just finishing 4a and it would have been hard for my son to double any of the 4a subjects.  But as I flipped through 4b, the only "mathy" chapter appears to be decimals.  We will easily be able to do a full decimal lesson plus a half or full lesson from the rest of 4b to get through it quickly.  

 

Re: taking her time with math facts.  This is probably just a sign that your dd is a very math-smart person.  This isn't meant to sound like bragging (tone never comes across in writing!) but I have never memorised my math facts and I have a degree in physics from a competitive university.  I do all sorts of weird things to get a fact- 6x7, for me, would be 6x6+6.  3x8 is 16+8... and so on.  Being able to manipulate quickly give a much deeper understanding of "facts" than simple memorisation.  

 

I found this out he hard way when my son memorised all of his facts using TimezAttack, and then I realised he still didn't grasp that Ax4 is A doubled, then doubled again.  Once I realised this, I've taken all emphasis off fact memorisation and put it into number manipulation.  

[sweetpea3829]

 

Re: taking her time with math facts.  This is probably just a sign that your dd is a very math-smart person.  This isn't meant to sound like bragging (tone never comes across in writing!) but I have never memorised my math facts and I have a degree in physics from a competitive university.  I do all sorts of weird things to get a fact- 6x7, for me, would be 6x6+6.  3x8 is 16+8... and so on.  Being able to manipulate quickly give a much deeper understanding of "facts" than simple memorisation.  

 

I found this out he hard way when my son memorised all of his facts using TimezAttack, and then I realised he still didn't grasp that Ax4 is A doubled, then doubled again.  Once I realised this, I've taken all emphasis off fact memorisation and put it into number manipulation.  

 

My 8 yr old son does stuff like this.  He can use the distributive property like nobody's business and can often calculate, in his head, double digit multiplication faster than I can put it in a calculator and press enter.  

 

I've never focused on math facts with him...he just absorbed them/learned ways to quickly calculate them.  

 

Now my dyscalculic daughter?  Yeah....we have to do a good bit of memorization.  

[BooksandBoys]

We use the IP for Singspore instead of the workbook. The added challenge is enough to slow my son down a bit. When we used the workbook, he would complete 4-6 exercises daily.