Self paced vs. live online classes

[ByGrace3]

I would love to know what everyone prefers for what subjects and why...this year we are using VP self paced history and dd is doing self paced Spanish through Middlebury Interactive. We are pleased with both and if all continue as it has will use those again next year. I have most of our basic plan for next year worked out and think we will dabble in our first live online class (expository writing with WTMA) in addition to those 2 self paced courses.

 

I can see benefits of live classes for foreign language for sure, and discussions in some subjects. I would love to know what is preferred and why as I tredpidly venture into the world of online classes.

 

The live options are so much more money. Which subjects are worth it?

 

We are tentatively planning to go the Omnibus route, with discussions at home. Thinking writing/English in a live class option. Spanish I could go either way as I can do discussions and oral practice at home. What about math and science? Online self paced like tablet class or videotext for math or DIVE for science vs live classes...what say the hive???

[chiguirre]

What about math and science? Online self paced like tablet class or videotext for math or DIVE for science vs live classes...what say the hive???

You might like the free, self-paced classes offered at Virtual Homeschool Group. They use Saxon 3rd edition for math and Apologia 1st or 2nd for science. We used some of the Saxon Algebra 1 class last year and it's well done. The teacher does a good job explaining the concepts and has winnowed down the massive homework problem sets to a more manageable level. You can enter the answers online for automatic grading.

[Lori D.]

You might also want to post this on the High School board, as more folk over there have experience with online classes. :) That will also give you the opportunity to see which specific online classes people recommend for future years.

 

My guess is that this will vary widely depending on the student, and what the student's strengths / weaknesses and needs are for each individual subject:

 

- Does the student need a slower/faster pace than live classes allow for?

- Does the student's learning style connect better/worse with live class interactions or solo learning?

- Does a live class motivate the student to keep up, or stress out the student?

- Does the tech aspect (headsets, possible time delay, method of answering, etc.) of a live class add in a positive way or make things more difficult for the student?

- Does the parent find it helpful to "glean" instruction tips and demos from live class interaction classes?

- Does a self-paced class allow for needed repeat of material or a chance to explore bunny trails?

- Does the student need more/less teacher one-on-one time or individualized instruction?

- Does the family have time zone or schedule constraints that make live interaction stressful or make self-paced necessary?

 

 

As far as expense…

 

Again, only your family can determine whether or not it's worth it to you. A $500 per semester class may be the first thing that has finally clicked for the student and so is worth every penny -- or, it may be a bust, while a cheaper self-paced class was exactly what was needed... ;)

 

For me, a lot would ride on the quality of the teacher to decide if it's worth it or not, esp. if living on a tight budget. Or, if it is a subject that either I can't teach well and *need* to outsource, or is a special subject or class that is of high interest to the student and not available to us in some other format.

 

As you get into high school, you may also find that dual enrollment might be a very competitive option -- similar price or cheaper (or even free in some states!), live teacher, and simultaneous high school AND college credit, which can be GREAT for knocking out in advance some general ed. requirements for a 4-year degree… We did the Foreign Language credits this way and it was VERY helpful to be in a live, real-life classroom.

 

 

Wishing you all the best in your online and real life class adventures! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[bugfree]

 

 

The live options are so much more money. Which subjects are worth it?

 

 

I think science, history and math would be and language arts would be great self paced classes.  I like the idea of foreign language being interactive.  I would be concerned that some interactive classes don't have enough interaction to make them valuable as an interactive class.  My county's library system offers free tutoring and they publicize the languages that the tutors know.  This would be a nice and cheap way to get interactive help from someone in the community.

 

I like self paced for so many reasons.  The main reason is that you can pause a lecture or lesson to look something up.  Often professors will mention something off-hand that might not directly be part of the lesson.  I often go online and do a search to find out more because it helps me understand the overall picture of what they are teaching.  With self paced, you can do the lessons as quick or slow as you need.  This is nice because I will often understand something, but every once in a while I get really stuck.  When the class is self paced I feel less pressure to move on and memorize something for a test..... I can really spend time learning it.

[crazyforlatin]

Self-paced class wouldn't work for us. I tried it with Tablet Class and not once did we actually finish a lesson. I think both DD and I need the pressure - she does better that way and I feel the need to keep her on track. I did not know this, but she has a competitive spirit and actually thrives under some pressure. For us a live online class is not stressful; we've taken enough during the last 2 years to understand the technology. When DD has a question, she will ask the teacher. One of our first online live classes was with AoPS. Normally I would take it at a much slower pace but with Pre-Algebra online class the speed was faster, but we got it done before the summer. It did mean spending more time on math per day and sacrificing a couple of subjects like history and geography or something else.

 

Lori's questions are excellent in figuring if an online class is appropriate. But I didn't quite know how to answer those questions before AOPS class. It was test to see how DD would respond. It's not the best class to test out a kid given the textbook itself and the format in which live classes are held.

 

For science we are now with Clover Creek physics. You can email the teacher who is a fellow mom here. Given DD's age, I do think it's intense for her, but the teacher is very organized and corrects everything for you. The live class is optional, but DD loves it because she gets to be with the other kids and the teacher herself is lively and seems to quite enjoy being in the company of the kids, so it makes a difference with how DD responds.

 

For Spanish we tried Sr. Gamache last year. Spanish 1 is appropriate for the very beginner. Unfortunately I did not enroll in the right class and didn't feel like switching during mid-year. It was a lot of work and I realized it's not the right balance for us when learning Spanish. I prefer more conversation than written work, so having a private tutor via Skype is better for us.

[Arcadia]

My kids don't have the peer pressure when taking self paced classes. We gave up on those and stick to online classes with firm weekly deadlines.

[crazyforlatin]

And live science class means I really need to help Dd get lab supplies. I'm not a hands-on science sort of parent. I would never have allowed an egg drop project (oh the mess!) but for the sake of the class, I consented and ultimately had fun watching the process play out.

[MeghansMom]

This was our daughter's first year experiencing live online classes and she thrives. She takes Veritas Press' Saxon math, linguistics, Latin, Grammar/Writing, and Literature. We teach History and Bible self-paced and science on our own.

 

They motivate her in a way that me teaching her does not and she enjoys them enough that we will continue for now.

 

We will be taking Omnibus primary and secondary in Seventh next year, her other classes will be live online.

She is extroverted and some classes I don't feel comfortable teaching since my stroke. She will be taking Latin 2, General Science, Logic 1 and Algebra. We will do a grammar/writing class on our own.

[MiMi 4under3]

DD14 is using Apex online high school for Algebra. It's a mix of both, I guess.

 

The material for the entire course is pre-recorded and available on the first day. She can work ahead of schedule, essentially rendering it a self-paced class. There are deadlines for quizzes, tests and projects, but since she worked ahead in the beginning when it was easy review, the deadlines are now very flexible, (she may go days without looking at it, or spend 4-5 hours in one sitting getting ahead) but they're still there to keep her on track. 

 

She would feel "too much pressure" if she had to keep up with a live class.

[ByGrace3]

This was our daughter's first year experiencing live online classes and she thrives. She takes Veritas Press' Saxon math, linguistics, Latin, Grammar/Writing, and Literature. We teach History and Bible self-paced and science on our own.

 

They motivate her in a way that me teaching her does not and she enjoys them enough that we will continue for now.

 

We will be taking Omnibus primary and secondary in Seventh next year, her other classes will be live online.

She is extroverted and some classes I don't feel comfortable teaching since my stroke. She will be taking Latin 2, General Science, Logic 1 and Algebra. We will do a grammar/writing class on our own.

This is a completely side bar question, but does the VPSA grammar and writing courses tie into the corresponding Omnibus' at all?

[Paula in MS]

My dd is enrolled in one of the Great Conversations classes (Omnibus) at Wilson Hill.  I tried to do this at home for 7th grade.  It has been so much better online.  Fantastic discussions going on in class.  This is the kind of thing that is well worth the money to do online for our family.

[SeaConquest]

Self-paced class wouldn't work for us. I tried it with Tablet Class and not once did we actually finish a lesson. I think both DD and I need the pressure - she does better that way and I feel the need to keep her on track. I did not know this, but she has a competitive spirit and actually thrives under some pressure. For us a live online class is not stressful; we've taken enough during the last 2 years to understand the technology. When DD has a question, she will ask the teacher. One of our first online live classes was with AoPS. Normally I would take it at a much slower pace but with Pre-Algebra online class the speed was faster, but we got it done before the summer. It did mean spending more time on math per day and sacrificing a couple of subjects like history and geography or something else.

 

Lori's questions are excellent in figuring if an online class is appropriate. But I didn't quite know how to answer those questions before AOPS class. It was test to see how DD would respond. It's not the best class to test out a kid given the textbook itself and the format in which live classes are held.

 

For science we are now with Clover Creek physics. You can email the teacher who is a fellow mom here. Given DD's age, I do think it's intense for her, but the teacher is very organized and corrects everything for you. The live class is optional, but DD loves it because she gets to be with the other kids and the teacher herself is lively and seems to quite enjoy being in the company of the kids, so it makes a difference with how DD responds.

 

For Spanish we tried Sr. Gamache last year. Spanish 1 is appropriate for the very beginner. Unfortunately I did not enroll in the right class and didn't feel like switching during mid-year. It was a lot of work and I realized it's not the right balance for us when learning Spanish. I prefer more conversation than written work, so having a private tutor via Skype is better for us.

 

Are you currently outsourcing your language classes? What have you liked?

[Arcadia]

. I'm not a hands-on science sort of parent. I would never have allowed an egg drop project (oh the mess!) but for the sake of the class, I consented and ultimately had fun watching the process play out.

 

My oldest end up having two egg drop projects, one from his online class and one from his homeschool lab class.  Fun watching the mess :)  My joker is in the same class as your daughter.  You can probably guess which one by the name :)

[MeghansMom]

This is a completely side bar question, but does the VPSA grammar and writing courses tie into the corresponding Omnibus' at all?

 

I am sorry, my daughter is in sixth grade and still considered a grammar student. Next year when she is a secondary student, she will be taking Omnibus I primary and secondary but not any grammar or writing from Veritas, so I do not know. I could find out though, if you wish.

[MeghansMom]

This is a completely side bar question, but does the VPSA grammar and writing courses tie into the corresponding Omnibus' at all?

 

I am sorry, my daughter is in sixth grade and still considered a grammar student. Next year when she is a secondary student, she will be taking Omnibus I primary and secondary but not any grammar or writing from Veritas, so I do not know. I could find out though, if you wish.

[ByGrace3]

I am sorry, my daughter is in sixth grade and still considered a grammar student. Next year when she is a secondary student, she will be taking Omnibus I primary and secondary but not any grammar or writing from Veritas, so I do not know. I could find out though, if you wish.

m

 

This is always something I have wondered. I really feel that at that level and spending so much time in Omnibus that having writing tie into that would make so much sense and really be a wasted opportunity otherwise....

[crazyforlatin]

Are you currently outsourcing your language classes? What have you liked?

We use Skype tutors for French, Spanish and Arabic. I do find that a live class setting for languages is better for learning grammar, but I opted out for this year due to Greek and Latin, though for Arabic, DD is in an online live class with Classical Learning Resource Center. They didn't have enough students for French so we decided to use skype this year. For Chinese, since there are so many Saturday Chinese classes in our area, it's cheaper and more fun for DD to attend a class once per week. I'm not joking when I claim that DD is the only kid who actually loves being there. I've talked with teachers, parents, kids - seems like every kid is forced to be there. There are like 500 kids and I'm thinking none of them are homeschooled because only homeschoolers sit in a public school classroom with a crazy grin on a Saturday morning, and most kids look tired and upset. Poor kids don't realize how useful it is to be bilingual.

 

One place where I've found some good tutors is italki.com, so DD converses with teachers from France, Egypt, Tunisia, and and various countries in South America. We've also tried languageconvo.com, livelingua.com, and Homeschool Spanish Academy. It's really crazy when you find someone in Tunisia to converse in French for $5 per hour.

[h2bh]

This is a completely side bar question, but does the VPSA grammar and writing courses tie into the corresponding Omnibus' at all?

 I'm sorry that I can't answer this question about VPSA, but I can say that writing at Wilson Hill integrates into their Omnibus classes (known as Great Conversation there).  That is part of why I chose writing instruction at Wilson Hill.  For instance, my dd read The Odyssey this fall in Great Conversation and also had it  an assignment in the writing class.  She will write two essays in the writing class analyzing the themes of The Odyssey and in Great Conversation their essays tend to focus on analyzing worldview and bringing Scripture to bear on the subject at hand.  Next semester they will use some material from Great Conversation 2 and some from Great Conversation  1 since there are students in both courses signed up for the Fundamentals of Expository Writing.  I wanted my daughter to have an extra writing class, but didn't want to burden her with too many online class hours or doubled reading assignments if she took writing from a different provider that would be analyzing completely different texts.  This has worked out well and I love that she gets the perspective of two different teachers on the books.

 

[Paula in MS]

 I'm sorry that I can't answer this question about VPSA, but I can say that writing at Wilson Hill integrates into their Omnibus classes (known as Great Conversation there).  That is part of why I chose writing instruction at Wilson Hill.  For instance, my dd read The Odyssey this fall in Great Conversation and also had it  an assignment in the writing class.  She will write two essays in the writing class analyzing the themes of The Odyssey and in Great Conversation their essays tend to focus on analyzing worldview and bringing Scripture to bear on the subject at hand.  Next semester they will use some material from Great Conversation 2 and some from Great Conversation  1 since there are students in both courses signed up for the Fundamentals of Expository Writing.  I wanted my daughter to have an extra writing class, but didn't want to burden her with too many online class hours or doubled reading assignments if she took writing from a different provider that would be analyzing completely different texts.  This has worked out well and I love that she gets the perspective of two different teachers on the books.

 

Wow.  This I didn't know.  Which writing classes does this pertain to?  This year in GC2, they are having a writing teacher come in for 30 minutes every other week, give them the assignment, and then walk them through it.  It would be difficult to have other writing assignments on top of this, but if they tie-in to each other, that would be different.  I'm wondering how GC3 works things.

[h2bh]

Wow.  This I didn't know.  Which writing classes does this pertain to?  This year in GC2, they are having a writing teacher come in for 30 minutes every other week, give them the assignment, and then walk them through it.  It would be difficult to have other writing assignments on top of this, but if they tie-in to each other, that would be different.  I'm wondering how GC3 works things.

 

GC1 also has a writing teacher come and guide the writing assignments.  It is a lot to take both classes, but I do love them both for different reasons.  You could certainly take either class independent of the other, but it is a huge benefit for the student's workload that they tie into each other.  I do not know how GC3 handles writing.  We aren't there yet.  I know there is an Honors Composition 1 class but I don't know anything about it either.  I'm sure though they would answer questions if you contact them.  The teachers have all been wonderfully open in answering my questions before enrolling my dd.

[fourisenough]

I'm sorry that I can't answer this question about VPSA, but I can say that writing at Wilson Hill integrates into their Omnibus classes (known as Great Conversation there). That is part of why I chose writing instruction at Wilson Hill. For instance, my dd read The Odyssey this fall in Great Conversation and also had it an assignment in the writing class. She will write two essays in the writing class analyzing the themes of The Odyssey and in Great Conversation their essays tend to focus on analyzing worldview and bringing Scripture to bear on the subject at hand. Next semester they will use some material from Great Conversation 2 and some from Great Conversation 1 since there are students in both courses signed up for the Fundamentals of Expository Writing. I wanted my daughter to have an extra writing class, but didn't want to burden her with too many online class hours or doubled reading assignments if she took writing from a different provider that would be analyzing completely different texts. This has worked out well and I love that she gets the perspective of two different teachers on the books.

This is a bit off-topic; sorry, OP. But I'm wondering how much religious content is present in Fundamentals of Expository Writing? Would a secular family be out of place? We're, of course, very tolerant of others' beliefs and fully aware WHA is a Christian provider. Thanks in advance.

[h2bh]

This is a bit off-topic; sorry, OP. But I'm wondering how much religious content is present in Fundamentals of Expository Writing? Would a secular family be out of place? We're, of course, very tolerant of others' beliefs and fully aware WHA is a Christian provider. Thanks in advance.

According to my dd, the teacher prays at the beginning and sometimes talks about the prayer (sometimes she shares a Celtic prayer).  My dd says she can tell she is a Christian, but the content of the course is really about learning to write an essay without just summarizing but digging in and analyzing the text.  Mrs. Lange is generous with her time if you want to ask her directly.  I think the school will also send you a link to watch a sample class if you contact them which might give you a feel for whether or not that would work for your family.