Vegetarianism for a pre-teen?

[MeghansMom]

Meghan is going to a spina bifida clinic on Wednesday to see her orthopedic doctor, her neurosurgeon and her urologist (she has a tethered spinal cord). She sees her endocrinologist on Friday and she saw her nephrologist last week and he will be calling me about her test results any day now. I am going to give them a heads up and seek advice.  Like whether she should take a multivitamin and if it should include iron (Meghan had an imperforate anus with fistula that was repaired but she still has constipation issues and wears a pull up) Her doctors are wonderfully supportive of her!

 

Do I need to take anything into account besides her hypoparathyroidism and iron being a constipation issue? What about her having one kidney (born with polycystic kidneys, only one functioning)? A vegetarian diet should be better for her, I think.

 

I also am I diabetic. I have lost twenty pounds in the last three and a half months since joining WW. I have 65 more to go. It is controlled through medication.

 

I have subscribed for Vegetarian Times. We are going to the library and book store tomorrow after class too.

 

She loves quinoa with red onions and mushrooms. She loves brown rice and couscous. She likes me to make a cold couscous salad with dried cranberries and almonds.

She loves broccoli, spinach, beets, collard greens, squash, zucchini, tomatoes, and on and on. She also is a bean eater, we eat beans every night-black eyed peas, kidney, black, northern, butter, cannellini, etc. 

 

This Thanksgiving it will be two years since she had her feeding tube removed. I think she is a healthy eater for someone that survived on Pediasure for ten years.

 

She does get lab work every three months by her endocrinologist, so we can keep an eye on her this way.

[Catwoman]

Except that, once you begin to see slaughtering animals in order to eat them as ethically abhorent, it's impossible to " enjoy" consuming the remains of a living being "without guilt."

 

It's really not "just" a way of eating; it's a new way of seeing the world and one's place in it.

Perhaps for you it is, but Meghansmom is doing this mainly to support her dd, so it seems that she truly is "just" changing her eating habits. Her dd may feel differently, but Meghansmom isn't required to share your views about eating meat being "ethically abhorrent" in order to change the family's eating habits.

 

Many people "just" change their eating habits without having to turn it into some sort of new world view. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

 

I hope you aren't suggesting that Meghansmom should feel guilty if she eats an occasional bacon cheeseburger. Even if she decides to go vegan at some point, it's not a religion. It's a lifestyle choice. And if she "cheats" on her vegan lifestyle, it's not some kind of mortal sin. There would still be no reason for her to feel guilty about eating a "forbidden" food every now and then. What is the worst that could happen? Will she be shunned by all of the other vegans? Because that's just creepy.

[Carol in Cal.]

I haven't read all of the posts, but to the OP--B12 is the nutrient that only comes from animal products.  The most hardcore but scholarly vegan cookbook I have recommends B12 supplementation, as well as watching iron and calcium closely.

 

If she is a vegetarian but is comfortable with some dairy, you only have to concern yourself with the iron, of those three.

 

My Dd is vegetarian, and I just continued with the normal rules we had--mostly whole grains, a complete meal before any dessert, complete meals include protein (hummus, cheese, or peanut butter are her favorites), carbs (almost always whole grain--which beefs up the protein and vitamin content, too), and fresh fruit and/or veggies, snacking on 'real food' rather than desserty things, and encouragement of taking vitamins (although as she got older this became very difficult to enforce.)  I like to cook so it wasn't much of a hardship for me to make vegetarian mainish dishes from time to time.  Savory Baking was a good source of quite filling, unusual ones, that we all liked.  My main difficulty is that DH is low carb (two diabetic parents), but salads were always the area that we could all enjoy together even if DD and I had polenta cheese pizza and DH had sausage, for instance.  Or if DH and I had leg of lamb and DD had cheese ravs.  Cheese and 3 onion quiche is very good and everyone could have it.  Pestos on various other things are popular. 

 

 

[MeghansMom]

I was a vegetarian teen.

 

Here is some advice that I wish I'd have had:

 

1. COOK YOUR FOODS IN AN IRON SKILLET. Yes, that iron helps. Mama, cook everything in cast iron that you can. I was anemic for so long (still am, but I eat meat now). That iron makes a difference. Send her to college with iron cookware. Double-blind randomized trials have shown this works. That's first of all.

 

2. Vegetarians should be careful to not eat too much junk, but vegans cannot afford to lose a single calorie to sugar or junk. Yes, there are societies that have lived vegan. None of them included highly processed foods on a regular basis. For real. Find me such a society and I'll eat my words. If you aren't eating meat, you need to eat twice the legumes, 4x as much, as a meat eater. Learn to love hummus. Now.

 

3. Beans, beans, beans. Beans and rice are a great meal. Dal and rice. Bean and rice burrito. Tofu and rice stir fry. The great thing is, these are all meals that can be made from sides accompanying a main dish.

 

4. I'm going to be honest. She should keep a dream diary. If she dreams of eggs, meat, or bacon, she needs to either (a) change her vegan diet in such a way that that stops or (b) just eat the dang food already. I've been vegan for three fasts and each time dreamt of eggs. I never dreamt of meat as a vegetarian, but apparently vegan was too much for me. She should be encouraged to listen to her body.

 

And finally, I'd encourage her to think of meat as something that can be done ethically, even if her standards are very high. So, she might want to find a butcher in a local town that sells wild-caught venison. Buying that meat supports local families and the venison was living free its entire life. Eating a holiday meal of venison or trout, for example, to supplement home-laid eggs, can provide someone with substantially more protein in a healthy way, without violating their principles. As catwoman points out, it is not all or nothing. Though, I remember being that age and I'm pretty sure I did think it was all or nothing, so I wouldn't judge your daughter for feeling the same way.

 

Eat beans, child. Amy's refried on a whole wheat tortilla with spinach and guacamole are a GREAT snack. (Cheese if only vegetarian. :) )

 

We had a neighbor before we moved who is a hunter. Meghan loved eating venison when his family would invite her over. I would have to talk to her about it

 

Thank you for all the advice!

[Jenny in Florida]

Perhaps for you it is, but Meghansmom is doing this mainly to support her dd, so it seems that she truly is "just" changing her eating habits. Her dd may feel differently, but Meghansmom isn't required to share your views about eating meat being "ethically abhorrent" in order to change the family's eating habits.

 

Many people "just" change their eating habits without having to turn it into some sort of new world view. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

 

I hope you aren't suggesting that Meghansmom should feel guilty if she eats an occasional bacon cheeseburger. Even if she decides to go vegan at some point, it's not a religion. It's a lifestyle choice. And if she "cheats" on her vegan lifestyle, it's not some kind of mortal sin. There would still be no reason for her to feel guilty about eating a "forbidden" food every now and then. What is the worst that could happen? Will she be shunned by all of the other vegans? Because that's just creepy.

 

I wasn't suggesting anything to MeghansMom. I was trying to suggest to you that saying a choice made based on deeply held beliefs is "just" a dietary choice is pretty insensitive.

[Katy]

I was a vegetarian for 4 years.  I gave it up for health reasons.  I think in general vegetarianism, assuming it means actively eating lots of fresh vegetables that you make yourself, not canned, hydrogenated, processed, or sugar-filled "vegan" stuff just because it's vegan, can be much more healthy than a standard diet.  If it's eating oreos and soy nuggets all day, then not so much.  I suspect there are a lot of undiscovered nutrients and medicines in whole, unprocessed plant foods.

 

I would have three concerns. 

1. Does your DD have other symptoms of anxiety?  It seems the brain needs some saturated fat, and there are a lot of anecdotal reports from former vegans I know that either they or their children developed psychiatric issues that seemed to resolve once the child started eating animal sources of saturated fat. Coconut oil wasn't enough.
2. Do you have a family history of autoimmune issues?  If so, you probably want to avoid an over-reliance on grains that can frequently supply many of the calories in a vegan diet.  That doesn't mean it's impossible, it just means you'll have to do the work to seek out recipes like those above, and not eating processed junk that's made from wheat and soy.
3. Is it possible there is an undiagnosed eating disorder and she's using animals as an excuse to avoid calories?  Many pro-ED websites recommend becoming "vegan" because it greatly restricts food choices and calories in a moralist way that makes it difficult to question.  Does she follow extremely thin but stylish vegan girls on YouTube?  Does her browser history have any pro- eating disorder websites in it?

If all of that is not a question, I recommend going to https://cronometer.com/, getting the free account, and use it to track what she's eating so you're sure she's getting enough nutrients. 

[Catwoman]

I wasn't suggesting anything to MeghansMom. I was trying to suggest to you that saying a choice made based on deeply held beliefs is "just" a dietary choice is pretty insensitive.

I wasn't being insensitive. No one here has suggested that MeghansMom has the "deeply held beliefs" of which you spoke, and my comments were addressed to her.

 

Realistically, if she had said she had "deeply held beliefs," she probably wouldn't also be saying she would miss her bacon cheeseburgers, because according to your earlier post, she would find bacon cheeseburgers to be "ethically abhorrent," so we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

But even if someone tells me she is a strict vegan but she really wants a bacon cheeseburger, I'm going to tell her to eat the bacon cheeseburger without guilt. I'm not about to judge another person because she decided to eat an occasional burger.

[shawthorne44]

...

She is now eating whole wheat waffles with fruit and whipped cream for breakfast.

She eats fruit for a snack.

Lunch has been pasta with veggies or a veggie pizza

Dinner she has skipped the meat we serve and just eats the veggies and side dish.

...

 

Note, I am not a vegetarian.  But, I've seen it done healthily and unhealthily.  Those who have done it badly were those that ate like your daughter that day.  The change to vegetarianism being precisely like they ate except skipping the meat.  Making no attempt to get sufficient protein into the diet.  So, the resulting diet was very carb heavy.  

 

eta: do they allow backyard chickens where you live?   Eggs can be a good source of protein and if the hens are free-range in your backyard, I don't think your daughter would think they were unhappy.  You can find a breed that is suited to your climate and extremely friendly.  

[Carol in Cal.]

I googled briefly but can't find this reference, but my recollection is that it was from a reputable source, and it's a bit cautionary about vegan diets.

 

There was a study in Great Britain of people who had emigrated there, whose traditional diet was vegan.  In GB they started to suffer from severe protein (and I think mineral) deficiencies following more or less the same diet which they had thrived on in their home countries.  Study of this revealed that the GB sources of some of the grain and bean based foods was more pure, to their detriment--that there were mites or other tiny, imperceptible insects in the home country food sources that were not present in the GB ones, and that those had been a small but meaningful contribution to their protein consumption, unawares. 

 

In my view the jury is out on vegan diets and whether they are really healthy in the long run.  I'm not opposed to them, but I don't think we are made to eat that way and so it takes greater than normal watchfulness to make it work out in a healthy manner.

[Katy]

I googled briefly but can't find this reference, but my recollection is that it was from a reputable source, and it's a bit cautionary about vegan diets.

 

There was a study in Great Britain of people who had emigrated there, whose traditional diet was vegan.  In GB they started to suffer from severe protein (and I think mineral) deficiencies following more or less the same diet which they had thrived on in their home countries.  Study of this revealed that the GB sources of some of the grain and bean based foods was more pure, to their detriment--that there were mites or other tiny, imperceptible insects in the home country food sources that were not present in the GB ones, and that those had been a small but meaningful contribution to their protein consumption, unawares. 

 

In my view the jury is out on vegan diets and whether they are really healthy in the long run.  I'm not opposed to them, but I don't think we are made to eat that way and so it takes greater than normal watchfulness to make it work out in a healthy manner.

 

Interesting.  We do put diatomaceous earth in grains here to stop insect contamination.

[shawthorne44]

I googled briefly but can't find this reference, but my recollection is that it was from a reputable source, and it's a bit cautionary about vegan diets.

 

There was a study in Great Britain of people who had emigrated there, whose traditional diet was vegan.  In GB they started to suffer from severe protein (and I think mineral) deficiencies following more or less the same diet which they had thrived on in their home countries.  Study of this revealed that the GB sources of some of the grain and bean based foods was more pure, to their detriment--that there were mites or other tiny, imperceptible insects in the home country food sources that were not present in the GB ones, and that those had been a small but meaningful contribution to their protein consumption, unawares. 

 

In my view the jury is out on vegan diets and whether they are really healthy in the long run.  I'm not opposed to them, but I don't think we are made to eat that way and so it takes greater than normal watchfulness to make it work out in a healthy manner.

 

I find this interesting.  I'm a gringo in love with tortillas, and I am a reader.  So, I've done reading on tortillas.  Way back when, corn tortillas in Mexico were extremely labor intensive with several steps and an all-day process.  Back then according to what I read, beans and corn tortillas were a pretty complete diet.   At least what they can tell from studying the bones.  Then one at a time each step was replaced by a convenience form.  Each step didn't cause a big change in taste, so no one saw a reason to continue with the old methods.  But, the bones started to show nutritional problems.  Supposedly the corn tortillas today don't taste anything like the ones back then.  

[Carol in Cal.]

I find this interesting.  I'm a gringo in love with tortillas, and I am a reader.  So, I've done reading on tortillas.  Way back when, corn tortillas in Mexico were extremely labor intensive with several steps and an all-day process.  Back then according to what I read, beans and corn tortillas were a pretty complete diet.   At least what they can tell from studying the bones.  Then one at a time each step was replaced by a convenience form.  Each step didn't cause a big change in taste, so no one saw a reason to continue with the old methods.  But, the bones started to show nutritional problems.  Supposedly the corn tortillas today don't taste anything like the ones back then.  

Wow, I had never heard this before.

 

I started to get serious about Mexican cooking when my Bayless refritos turned out so well.  I bought a mocheete (I am sure that's not how to spell this) and got all ready to start making my own chunky, varied sauce/dipish things.  But I kept reading, and he recommended conditioning the mocheete by grinding uncooked rice in it repeatedly and throwing it away until a batch turns out that didn't have an grey in it (from rock grinding into the rice) and that never happened to mine.  The downside risk of not doing this was to grind down your teeth by chewing food that had little bits of rock in it, so I decided that it wasn't worth the risk. 

[Pamela H in Texas]

I'm vegetarian who wants to be vegan but has no self-control :-/  And then I feel guilty because of the ethical issues associated.

 

My oldest is 100% gluten free and mostly vegetarian (like one item with meat in it in the last 6-12months). Well, really, she's a junk-food-aholic.  That is a real issue even when vegetarian or vegan.  

My 9yo is mostly vegetarian (she waffled a little until the last month or two).

 

My 6yo is vegetarian at home.  She eats at school so I assume that has meat in it. 

 

The baby is vegan because he is 16months old.  How great it would be if I could keep it that way.  We are already fighting anemia but that is because he has a feeding disorder.  We're working on it.  Plenty of non-meat options for iron and vitamin C (needed to use the iron).

 

My 8yo has been asking to have vegetarian meals just over half the time now.  

 

You don't need to worry about the Calcium any more than you had to anyway.  The non-vegetarian ways of getting it actually aren't good ways to get it.  In fact, they've been shown to actually deplete your system of it instead of helping.  The vegetarian ways are more bioavailable.

 

B12 may or may not be an issue.  It is something to watch.  I actually have extra high b12 soooooooo.....

 

Protein is a hot topic.  If you really want a run down on it, try Dr. Garth Davis' book Proteinaholic which came out recently.  Basically, we don't need all that much and we can get just as much from a plant based diet.  Look at vegetarian and vegan body builders to convince yourself further :)  Amino acids are what you really  need and you're getting that just find in real food.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

Veganism really requires being on top of your diet, in a way vegetarianism does not.  I would be pretty hesitant to let a pre-teen, unless I as the parent was willing to take charge of their diet in a pretty complete way.  If you are willing, I think that is a different thing, but in my experience it is not actually easy to do it as a kind of side to a more conventional North American diet.

 

I think though a lot of kids that age take a very basic and even naive approach to food - they like animals, so they don't want to eat them, or they disaprove of factory farming, or they worry about the environment.  But they don't really know much about farming, or ecology, or local food systems, and they haven't really thought through the implications of veganism.  What would a vegan world look like for animals?  Would veganism really reduce the amount of animal death?  What does death look like in the wild?  They also tend not to ask the important questions about plant based diets - how far did this quinoa or avacado travel?  Was this soy farmed sustainably?  Can I find grains and legumes and vegetables that I know were not farmed in big monocultures on an industrial farm?   What does that kind of agriculture mean for animals?

 

 

[MeghansMom]

I was a vegetarian for 4 years.  I gave it up for health reasons.  I think in general vegetarianism, assuming it means actively eating lots of fresh vegetables that you make yourself, not canned, hydrogenated, processed, or sugar-filled "vegan" stuff just because it's vegan, can be much more healthy than a standard diet.  If it's eating oreos and soy nuggets all day, then not so much.  I suspect there are a lot of undiscovered nutrients and medicines in whole, unprocessed plant foods.

 

I would have three concerns. 

1. Does your DD have other symptoms of anxiety?  It seems the brain needs some saturated fat, and there are a lot of anecdotal reports from former vegans I know that either they or their children developed psychiatric issues that seemed to resolve once the child started eating animal sources of saturated fat. Coconut oil wasn't enough.
2. Do you have a family history of autoimmune issues?  If so, you probably want to avoid an over-reliance on grains that can frequently supply many of the calories in a vegan diet.  That doesn't mean it's impossible, it just means you'll have to do the work to seek out recipes like those above, and not eating processed junk that's made from wheat and soy.
3. Is it possible there is an undiagnosed eating disorder and she's using animals as an excuse to avoid calories?  Many pro-ED websites recommend becoming "vegan" because it greatly restricts food choices and calories in a moralist way that makes it difficult to question.  Does she follow extremely thin but stylish vegan girls on YouTube?  Does her browser history have any pro- eating disorder websites in it?

If all of that is not a question, I recommend going to https://cronometer.com/, getting the free account, and use it to track what she's eating so you're sure she's getting enough nutrients. 

Thank you for making me aware of these issues.

I will talk to her doctor's especially her endocrinologist, about the saturated fat issue. I just received her lab results this evening. Her phosphorus is 5.7 out of 4.1-5.9 being a normal range and she is within that! Her calcium is 28,6 out of 30-100 being a normal range. That is  little low but she did not take eight of her  Calcitrol tablets last month.

 

She does not have an eating disorder. She is a preemie and a twin. She has VACTERS Association (VACTERLS) which stands for multiple physical birth defects. She has an Amplatzer device in her heart, one functioning kidney and a tethered spinal cord and had a feeding tube removed two years this Thanksgiving. Vater kids are small and usually are not on the average growth chart.

 

She has never been a baby doll girl, she has always been an animal lover. She loves to play vet and watch animal documentaries. She defended ants in early elementary wrapping herself around a tree to keep a boy from killing them, even though she was bitten by the ants and the boy threatened her. The phrase, "Though she be but little, she be fierce," comes to mind. She wants to volunteer at the Human Society and the zoo but has to be thirteen and older. She wanted to be a veterinarian but thinks an international law attorney will make more money, so she can work on animal rights cases pro bono (and help more animals than a vet by changing laws in animal's favor)  and open an animal sanctuary. She goes to animal shelter sites and makes lists of all the unadopted cats and dogs and prays for them. She then goes back and sees who has been adopted and thanks God for them finding homes and makes a new list. In our old neighborhood, she collected newspaper for the shelter and she gives ten percent of her allowance to the local shelter. She refuses to go to Sea World. She lectures her father and me about what the do to baby boy chickens, calves, the dairy industry, the poultry industry and the beef industry. She even lectures me about my cosmetics possibly being tested on animals. She defends pit bulls. I could go on and on.

 

She mostly eats healthy, preferring veggies, fruits, beans and good grains. Lately she has been pushing her meat aside here and there and just eating her sides.

 

So yes, it is good to be aware of an eating disorder and I will keep on top of that, thank You. :)

[MeghansMom]

Veganism really requires being on top of your diet, in a way vegetarianism does not.  I would be pretty hesitant to let a pre-teen, unless I as the parent was willing to take charge of their diet in a pretty complete way.  If you are willing, I think that is a different thing, but in my experience it is not actually easy to do it as a kind of side to a more conventional North American diet.

 

I think though a lot of kids that age take a very basic and even naive approach to food - they like animals, so they don't want to eat them, or they disaprove of factory farming, or they worry about the environment.  But they don't really know much about farming, or ecology, or local food systems, and they haven't really thought through the implications of veganism.  What would a vegan world look like for animals?  Would veganism really reduce the amount of animal death?  What does death look like in the wild?  They also tend not to ask the important questions about plant based diets - how far did this quinoa or avacado travel?  Was this soy farmed sustainably?  Can I find grains and legumes and vegetables that I know were not farmed in big monocultures on an industrial farm?   What does that kind of agriculture mean for animals?

 

I support her now in vegetarianism. I told her vegan would have to wait. I think high school, if she shows she is mature and aware enough, or maybe college.

But if I come across a good vegan recipe, why not here or there?

 

I think in time she will be more educated and aware of these other issues and make good choices in time.

[MeghansMom]

I was a vegetarian for 4 years.  I gave it up for health reasons.  I think in general vegetarianism, assuming it means actively eating lots of fresh vegetables that you make yourself, not canned, hydrogenated, processed, or sugar-filled "vegan" stuff just because it's vegan, can be much more healthy than a standard diet.  If it's eating oreos and soy nuggets all day, then not so much.  I suspect there are a lot of undiscovered nutrients and medicines in whole, unprocessed plant foods.

 

I would have three concerns. 

1. Does your DD have other symptoms of anxiety?  It seems the brain needs some saturated fat, and there are a lot of anecdotal reports from former vegans I know that either they or their children developed psychiatric issues that seemed to resolve once the child started eating animal sources of saturated fat. Coconut oil wasn't enough.
2. Do you have a family history of autoimmune issues?  If so, you probably want to avoid an over-reliance on grains that can frequently supply many of the calories in a vegan diet.  That doesn't mean it's impossible, it just means you'll have to do the work to seek out recipes like those above, and not eating processed junk that's made from wheat and soy.
3. Is it possible there is an undiagnosed eating disorder and she's using animals as an excuse to avoid calories?  Many pro-ED websites recommend becoming "vegan" because it greatly restricts food choices and calories in a moralist way that makes it difficult to question.  Does she follow extremely thin but stylish vegan girls on YouTube?  Does her browser history have any pro- eating disorder websites in it?

If all of that is not a question, I recommend going to https://cronometer.com/, getting the free account, and use it to track what she's eating so you're sure she's getting enough nutrients. 

 

And thank you for the website, I will use it!

 

She also has her labs done every three months by her endo too.

[MercyA]

She has never been a baby doll girl, she has always been an animal lover. She loves to play vet and watch animal documentaries. She defended ants in early elementary wrapping herself around a tree to keep a boy from killing them, even though she was bitten by the ants and the boy threatened her. The phrase, "Though she be but little, she be fierce," comes to mind. She wants to volunteer at the Human Society and the zoo but has to be thirteen and older. She wanted to be a veterinarian but thinks an international law attorney will make more money, so she can work on animal rights cases pro bono (and help more animals than a vet by changing laws in animal's favor)  and open an animal sanctuary. She goes to animal shelter sites and makes lists of all the unadopted cats and dogs and prays for them. She then goes back and sees who has been adopted and thanks God for them finding homes and makes a new list. In our old neighborhood, she collected newspaper for the shelter and she gives ten percent of her allowance to the local shelter. She refuses to go to Sea World. She lectures her father and me about what the do to baby boy chickens, calves, the dairy industry, the poultry industry and the beef industry. She even lectures me about my cosmetics possibly being tested on animals. She defends pit bulls. I could go on and on.

 

Your daughter rocks.  :hurray:

[MeghansMom]

Note, I am not a vegetarian.  But, I've seen it done healthily and unhealthily.  Those who have done it badly were those that ate like your daughter that day.  The change to vegetarianism being precisely like they ate except skipping the meat.  Making no attempt to get sufficient protein into the diet.  So, the resulting diet was very carb heavy.  

 

eta: do they allow backyard chickens where you live?   Eggs can be a good source of protein and if the hens are free-range in your backyard, I don't think your daughter would think they were unhappy.  You can find a breed that is suited to your climate and extremely friendly.  

We have not gone to the store and are running low, so that was a big influence on her eating.

But yes, I wanted to know what I might miss as far as nutrients go as beginning vegetarians..

We are finishing up what we have and I go to the store tomorrow.

We have come up with a list of recipes and are going to buy the ingredients to make them.

We are buying more fresh veggies, we already eat couscous and quinoa, we eat plenty of beans.

We are going to the library and the bookstore tomorrow after school.

I am making her doctors aware too.

We can not keep chickens where we live but she does not want to eat them anyways.

Good thought though and I appreciate it.

[Katy]

Sounds like she has a true passion.  Great job being supportive.

[MeghansMom]

I'm vegetarian who wants to be vegan but has no self-control :-/  And then I feel guilty because of the ethical issues associated.

 

My oldest is 100% gluten free and mostly vegetarian (like one item with meat in it in the last 6-12months). Well, really, she's a junk-food-aholic.  That is a real issue even when vegetarian or vegan.  

My 9yo is mostly vegetarian (she waffled a little until the last month or two).

 

My 6yo is vegetarian at home.  She eats at school so I assume that has meat in it. 

 

The baby is vegan because he is 16months old.  How great it would be if I could keep it that way.  We are already fighting anemia but that is because he has a feeding disorder.  We're working on it.  Plenty of non-meat options for iron and vitamin C (needed to use the iron).

 

My 8yo has been asking to have vegetarian meals just over half the time now.  

 

You don't need to worry about the Calcium any more than you had to anyway.  The non-vegetarian ways of getting it actually aren't good ways to get it.  In fact, they've been shown to actually deplete your system of it instead of helping.  The vegetarian ways are more bioavailable.

 

B12 may or may not be an issue.  It is something to watch.  I actually have extra high b12 soooooooo.....

 

Protein is a hot topic.  If you really want a run down on it, try Dr. Garth Davis' book Proteinaholic which came out recently.  Basically, we don't need all that much and we can get just as much from a plant based diet.  Look at vegetarian and vegan body builders to convince yourself further :)  Amino acids are what you really  need and you're getting that just find in real food.

 

Yes, I read about the calcium being interfered with by too much meat at Vegetarian Times, on Fork Over Knife, which I just finished watching again with my daughter and by I think Jenny up further in the thread. Her hemoglobin now is 13.8 out of a range of 12-16 but we are not vegetarians completely yet, I realize that. Good ideas and I wish you luck on your vegetarianism/veganism. :)

[Catwoman]

I support her now in vegetarianism. I told her vegan would have to wait. I think high school, if she shows she is mature and aware enough, or maybe college.

But if I come across a good vegan recipe, why not here or there?

 

I think in time she will be more educated and aware of these other issues and make good choices in time.

I think your decision is very sensible. :)

[RKWAcademy]

I don't know anything about the parathyroid.  However, I have low thyroid and have read enough times about soy being not good for the thyroid, that I avoid soy (and don't like it anyway).  So, if you're thinking she might eat a lot of soy, you might ask her endo about his/her thoughts on soy.  Can't hurt to ask.  FWIW, I've never heard from a doctor about soy being a negative but I've never asked either.

[MeghansMom]

I don't know anything about the parathyroid.  However, I have low thyroid and have read enough times about soy being not good for the thyroid, that I avoid soy (and don't like it anyway).  So, if you're thinking she might eat a lot of soy, you might ask her endo about his/her thoughts on soy.  Can't hurt to ask.  FWIW, I've never heard from a doctor about soy being a negative but I've never asked either.

 

 

I also thought soy was not good for middle-aged women? Or menopausal women? sighs. I don't recall. I will ask my daughter's endo for her though! :)

[monstermama]

I find vegan foods, excluding the substitutes peoole concoct which which you totally don't need, to be cheaper than standard omnivore foods. Take my vegan and non vegan enchiladas.

 

Both kinds have: tomato and broth based sauce, corn tortillas, onions, garlic, cilantro, seasonings, soy sauce and are served with or partially filled with avocados and homemade salsa.

 

The vegan kind have: a sweet potato, a small amount of squash, a tsp of maple syrup and a can of black beans.

 

The meat kind have: chicken and cheese.

 

The chicken and cheese are quite a bit more expensive than the 1 cup squash, 1 large sweet potato and one can of black beans.

 

Both dishes are delicious and filling and I've seen many a meat eater, including myself, demolish a plate of the vegan ones.

 

Sorry for the derail, but could you please share your enchilada recipe?  :drool:

 

And for MeghansMom, my DH and DS are both vegetarian.  I still occasionally eat meat when we eat out, but I cook vegetarian at home.  Our grocery bill has gone down considerably since we made the switch - just seeing the price of meat at the grocery store makes my head spin now!  We don't eat fake meat products or much soy since I don't really care for the taste, and the fake stuff is expensive!

 

When we initially made the switch a few years ago, I looked for vegetarian versions of our favorite recipes - so, veggie lasagna, burgers, chili, etc.  They didn't taste the same (in some cases, they actually better!) but it made the transition easier for us.  As time went on, we added in more "exotic" ingredients (DH had actually never had sweet potatoes that weren't smothered in marshmallows, sugar, and butter).

 

Here's two of our current favorite recipes: Crockpot Pumpkin Red Lentil Chili and 15 Bean Soup.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Meghan's Mom, most of the hype about soy is just inaccurate, greatly over-stated, has to do with processing issues, etc.  There are ways around it.  However, please DO speak to the endocrinologist because soy IS an issue for certain people with certain issues.  The endocrinologist will hopefully give you the science of your daughter's specific medical issue rather than a more general opinion about soy (seems people either think it is ideal or problematic without much evidence of either stance). You may go as far as to ask, "are you recommending that because of the parathyroid issue or that would be your recommendation more generally?"