Murphy101 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm researching through college board and such, but the most important research is often from the btdt crowd, so here I am. If your senior student wants to get a degree in German language and loves the outdoors (but could not care less about sports) and needs a boatload of financial aid and is an average student (As and Bs bith at college and at home).... What colleges would you suggest looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Well, start with your in-state tuition options for lowest sticker prices. What state are you in? Does "boatload of financial aid" mean "zero out of pocket" to you? Are you willing to consider loans? Have you calculated your EFC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 It would depend upon her SAT/ACT scores mostly. I'd look for places where they're in the top 10% or so and then check out their merit/need based aid options pending which one we needed. If just need based aid (meaning you can afford your EFC), then I'd look at schools where they were in the top 40% or so. Either way, I'd still be running online NPCs. It's pretty near impossible to recommend schools without a score range. Grades are very variable. Then major. Then location (if that matters). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Well, start with your in-state tuition options for lowest sticker prices. What state are you in? Does "boatload of financial aid" mean "zero out of pocket" to you? Are you willing to consider loans? Have you calculated your EFC? No loans. We are adamant about that. Once he gets to his senior year or graduate school, should he choose that? Sure. But not before then. I'm in Oklahoma. In state, with a German degree, the top option would probably be OSU, which is not cheap but it's not as insane as most. Their family estimate calculator says we should expect to still come up with about 10k?! I have no idea where they make this stuff up. That's crazy fantasy talk as far as I can figure out. But my other two kids didn't go this route for college, so some of this freshman going away hype and expense is all new to me. And of course, the cost is always a waste if the school sucks, so I'm trying not to look at just price... We are trying to narrow things down to the 3-5 he wants to apply at and would be excited to get into and we'll see how the finances play out. So far the only one on the list is Oklahoma State. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald Stoker Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I don't know anything about this, but I thought this article about US students going to university in Germany was interesting: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32821678 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 It's good that you are looking into the possibilities of how to find an affordable college for your student. Unfortunately, if the calculators are showing a family contribution of about $10K, your family is likely outside the range of federal financial aid (mainly the Pell grant). With a good but not outstanding student, merit aid is not very likely either, outside of some possible small scholarships from the school to entice the student to attend. Are any 4-year schools within commuting distance? Living at home is one clear way to save significant costs. Also consider a community college within commuting distance for the first 2 years. This can be a tremendous savings for a student who isn't expected to get large merit scholarships from the 4-year schools. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Is the intent to major in German or to take German courses while studying something else, like international affairs, a science, or business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Their family estimate calculator says we should expect to still come up with about 10k?! I have no idea where they make this stuff up. That's crazy fantasy talk as far as I can figure out. Did they break that into a family contribution and student contribution amount? Students are generally going to be expected to work or get a loan for their part of the contribution. The amount will be 3000-5500. What you need to do is figure out your personal bottom line. Look at: 1. Savings 2. Expenses you could cut back on (don't need the premium cable plan, make smaller contribution to retirement savings for four years, don't buy new car, etc.) or that you don't have to pay after your child graduates (if you were paying for a German tutor for example, or other class, curriculum, sport, etc.) 3. Tax credits. The government will rebate a chunk of your tution payments, see chapters 2 and 3 here. https://www.irs.gov/publications/p970/index.html 4. State benefits, if your state has a tuition grant program. (I'm not in OK) Add it up and see how close you can come (to the parent contribution portion). Once he gets to his senior year or graduate school, should he choose that? Sure. But not before then. As far as loans go, there isn't really that much difference between a loan taken out freshman year versus senior year. So, I would look at the total loan amount you would be comfortable with senior year and divide that by 4 as your personal maximum loan amount per year. Think about what salary you expect to earn after graduation, and what loan payment you can afford, and work backward: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml Speaking of career paths, some career paths have subsidized education. The military is obvious, but there are also scholarships for future teachers, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I don't know anything about this, but I thought this article about US students going to university in Germany was interesting: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32821678 Yes! Go to Germany if you want a degree in German! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Is the intent to major in German or to take German courses while studying something else, like international affairs, a science, or business? He wants to major in German language and possibly become fluent in a second language as well. He has had quite a bit of German already, so he knows he is competent or better at it and enjoys it. Otherwise his interests are rather diverse still. I imagine by the time he gets a degree things will have honed in a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 It's good that you are looking into the possibilities of how to find an affordable college for your student. Unfortunately, if the calculators are showing a family contribution of about $10K, your family is likely outside the range of federal financial aid (mainly the Pell grant). With a good but not outstanding student, merit aid is not very likely either, outside of some possible small scholarships from the school to entice the student to attend. Are any 4-year schools within commuting distance? Living at home is one clear way to save significant costs. Also consider a community college within commuting distance for the first 2 years. This can be a tremendous savings for a student who isn't expected to get large merit scholarships from the 4-year schools. He has taken all that he can at our community college already, so at this point he will need to go elsewhere. He will graduate high school with 18 credits in German and the gen ed English comps from the community college. The school will no longer be offering German starting this spring. The nearest reputable university anywhere in our price bracket is approx 2 hours away. That's a bit much for a commute IMO. And whatever we'd save in the commute would disappear in a buying him a car to make the commute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Okay, this is the third time I've typed this answer. So it's shorter and less empathetic than the original. :grouphug: What about a teaching / German double major, with teaching providing him with the possibility for public sector loan forgiveness? That requires 10 years in the sector for the plan, but hey, if he finishes at 21, he'll only be 31 by the time he's done. If he's sure it's the language he wants, it's not like he'd be forgoing an engineer's salary or anything. The other possibility, and I don't say this lightly at all--I've had a spouse deployed and cousins and family discharged due to injury-- is the military. It breaks my heart but my kids might be in that as well... if they don't get into college in Germany itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Looking at quick OSU stats, both incoming students and costs, I'm not sure you're going to find a better bargain. The only possibility I would still look at would be choosing a school farther away - like on the east coast (north to south). Many private schools like to have students from all 50 states (bragging rights), so it's possible they would give a decent package to a student from OK. I would expect basic student loans though - that's $5500 for freshman/sophomore year and $7500 for junior/senior year if my memory is correct. The higher his scores are compared to the school's stats, the better chance you have for decent aid, but still, OK is going to be a hook to assist. Find a search engine, plug in German, his stats, and other details that are important, and look at all the eastern seaboard states. If you see any that look intriguing, they could be worth an app just to see how finances compare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I do not have a suggestion for college. Does your son have a job? I would recommend that he starts looking for a job so he can contribute to the family. College is expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 I do not have a suggestion for college. Does your son have a job? I would recommend that he starts looking for a job so he can contribute to the family. College is expensive. He is my third child, I'm aware of the expenses. This can be a double edged sword bc that also raises his contributing income which could lower his financial aid, possibly by more than he could earn. It shouldn't be that way. But it can be. He does do some part time summer work and has used that to pay for some of his current college needs at the community college, but not enough to build a savings beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 No loans. We are adamant about that. Once he gets to his senior year or graduate school, should he choose that? Sure. But not before then. I'm in Oklahoma. In state, with a German degree, the top option would probably be OSU, which is not cheap but it's not as insane as most. Their family estimate calculator says we should expect to still come up with about 10k?! I have no idea where they make this stuff up. That's crazy fantasy talk as far as I can figure out. But my other two kids didn't go this route for college, so some of this freshman going away hype and expense is all new to me. And of course, the cost is always a waste if the school sucks, so I'm trying not to look at just price... We are trying to narrow things down to the 3-5 he wants to apply at and would be excited to get into and we'll see how the finances play out. So far the only one on the list is Oklahoma State. If expense is the number one driving factor, I'd be looking at community college for two years, living at home and commuting, with a transfer to Oklahoma State. Is that within an hour of home by chance? If so, that would be commuting distance as well. Living at home cuts costs almost in half. DD has almost an hour drive every day and saves a lot on food and on housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 He has taken all that he can at our community college already, so at this point he will need to go elsewhere. He will graduate high school with 18 credits in German and the gen ed English comps from the community college. The school will no longer be offering German starting this spring. The nearest reputable university anywhere in our price bracket is approx 2 hours away. That's a bit much for a commute IMO. And whatever we'd save in the commute would disappear in a buying him a car to make the commute. Oops! I see you answered my questions. A couple comments: 60 credits is what you can take at a community college and transfer. Unless he is going into something very specific (like Engineering) you need approximately 60 credits of Gen Ed, including foreign language and English. If I'm doing the math correctly, your son has approximately 24. That means he could do another year at the community college, especially if he goes double major. The other thing I notice you said was, "reputable" and "price range." So is there a close university to you? And, when comparing prices one must take into consideration commute vs. dorm living. It is absolutely *not* true that whatever you save inthe commute you lose in the cost of the car. DD just detassled all summer long in order to buy a little Camry commuter. It was $1,000. She had to buy new tires - another $500. That is nowhere close to the cost of living in the dorms, eating all her meals on campus, and all the expenses that go with living in a college community. On the part time job - you'll have to weigh that. While his earning will definitely offset his financial aid package, a child working 25 hours at $8 an hour earns $200/week. That's $800/month or almost $10k per year. If the offset is $5k, he still comes ahead. What you have here is a logjam. You would like him not to work, not to take out loans, not to commute, and to go to a worthy college, while price is a huge factor. Something has to be blown up to break the jam. You will have to weigh which of those you can flexibly reconsider because not all are possible it appears in this situation. ETA: Have you thought about Hard Work U, College of the Ozarks? That's something to consider with family size - it might make it a possibility. They off a minor in German? Could he take additional online classes to earn the German degree from another university? Also - what colleges have an exchange instate tuition with Oklahoma? This is something to consider as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 He is my third child, I'm aware of the expenses. This can be a double edged sword bc that also raises his contributing income which could lower his financial aid, possibly by more than he could earn. It shouldn't be that way. But it can be. He does do some part time summer work and has used that to pay for some of his current college needs at the community college, but not enough to build a savings beyond that. Under the Federal methodology, the first 1750 of student earnings does not lower financial aid, and each dollar after that lowers your eligibility by 50 cents. So, you have to be able to save more than 50% of your earnings to cover your reduced financial aid and come out ahead. However, earning a dollar never lowers your aid by more than a dollar. As far as I can tell, the CSS schools just make stuff up. The student is assumed to be able to earn the school's required student contribution. And it goes up every year as you "gain experience." Not actually gong out and earning that money (and therefore needing a bigger loan) does not change their underlying assumptions or improve your aid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald Stoker Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 A propos of BlsdMama's instate tuition exchange query: http://home.sreb.org/acm/states.aspx Maybe something there would help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 I'm not against him working, especially during the summers. Saving his entire paycheck has never been a problem for him. He spent it on his cc classes and books. But it does limit opportunities. Internships, study abroad, and field studies all the things not in the classroom that are hard to find a flexible enough employer to manage. A 2 hour commute is not cheap either. A commute in addition to working during the term is quite the logistical kick in the cajones even for an 18 year old student. I have no doubt he could do it. I also have no doubt it would affect his grades and overall ability to take full advantage of his university options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I don't know anything about this, but I thought this article about US students going to university in Germany was interesting: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32821678What about working and saving up to go abroad for at least the first year? From the article, it appears that it would be cheaper than your in-state option, and I can't imagine that he wouldn't be much further ahead in his German skills compared to staying in the US. Between that and community college credits, he could probably finish in the US in two years and there are often much cheaper housing options for upperclassmen such as co-op houses. It sounds like he is interested in study abroad, and if he did so through a U.S. college, he would likely pay significantly more than going on his own directly to a German university, unless he got a scholarship. I would also think that future employers and internship providers would be very impressed by the initiative and maturity needed to successfully undertake such an endeavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald Stoker Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Just because I'd love to do this myself (!), here's another link about international students studying in Germany (note that there are scholarships available, too): https://www.daad.de/deutschland/studienangebote/international-programs/en/?p=l#q=°ree[]=1&fos=0&fee[]=0&sortBy=1&page=1&display=list 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 This can be a double edged sword bc that also raises his contributing income which could lower his financial aid, possibly by more than he could earn. The school calculators are usually on the mark, but if you haven't run the FASFA forecaster for your EFC, do that right now. It would be extremely unusual to get more need based aid than your EFC - even private schools that state they 'meet all demonstrated need' all gave us a net price that was higher than our EFC, anywhere from $2,000 to $9,000 more. So, if he wants to go to a college that approaches or exceeds your EFC, I don't see how he can do it without working for sure and most likely taking out loans, unless he gets a boatload of merit aid. Yes, making more money increases your contribution, but you still wind up with more money. The most important factors by far (for most merit aid) is ACT/SAT score and GPA. Generally, you have to be in the top 25% of stats to get merit aid, and a good bit higher than that to get top merit aid. I will say that I think It's very hard to go anywhere and live on campus for less than $7,000 to $10,000. It's often more than that - one school that is offering my dd a full tuition scholarship has $14,000 in room and board expenses. I have found the college search tools on sites like College Confidential to be helpful in the initial search. You can enter all kinds of criteria like size, location, major, and so on, and it gives you a list of schools. You can enter his ACT/SAT scores and say that you want to see schools where he is competitive for merit aid. He needs to do this now, because many priority deadlines for scholarships are fast approaching. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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