No retention with AAS - I don't know if this is a vent or a question!

[T'smom]

My 3rd grade ds is working through AAS 2. We have NO retention. He remembers for a few days (long enough to "pass a test") and then it all flies out of his head. I have him write the ones he misses 3 times in addition to following the exercises in the book, but if I have him write the words from a few lessons before he misses several. I swear, if I see student written studint one more time, my head might explode.

 

Advice? Has AAS not worked for some kids?

[73349]

I thought 3rd-graders were known for that in general?

[Minerva]

It didn't work at all for us either. However, nothing has worked for us (yet).

 

 

[wintermom]

Learning correct spelling is a lengthy process which takes years of repetition, review and usage. At age 8/9, a student is still very early on in the learning process. Don't panic, just be patient and continue to correct and re-enforce spelling rules.

[MerryAtHope]

My 3rd grade ds is working through AAS 2. We have NO retention. He remembers for a few days (long enough to "pass a test") and then it all flies out of his head. I have him write the ones he misses 3 times in addition to following the exercises in the book, but if I have him write the words from a few lessons before he misses several. I swear, if I see student written studint one more time, my head might explode.

 

Advice? Has AAS not worked for some kids?

 

When kids aren't retaining, that's a sign that they need additional help and review. (Remember, AAS doesn't have tests, and the review box is there for you to customize to your student's needs--go ahead and keep tricky words in daily review longer.)

 

Words like "student" are hard because the vowel sound is muffled. Steps 4 and 6 of AAS 2 both had some words like this, and they generally do take longer to master. If you look back in step 4--there’s a note in a gray text box about the schwa sound and the need to pronounce words for spelling. Here’s how you can take it a step further: First, tell your 3rd-grader that when we say words fast in our normal speech, some of the sounds get muffled–we don’t hear them correctly.  We need to say them slowly.  Then, when you introduce a word, say, “We normally say this word, studint. I’m going to pronounce this one for spelling.  You repeat the pronunciation and then write it.  stu-DENT.† Make sure he repeats the pronunciation for spelling.  When he says the sounds correctly, then have him practice spelling it with the tiles or on paper.  When you are done with the lesson, make sure you put all of the cards in the review tab.

 

Once he understands the general concept that there are sounds that get muffled and that we need to say things slowly to hear all the sounds for spelling, then he will be able to get these types of words correct over time.

 

When you get to the point where you are doing the review cards, then tell him, “I’m going to say these words how we normally say them.  I want you to pronounce them for spelling, and then write them.† If he struggles with the pronunciation, give that to him, have him repeat it, and then write the spelling.  Keep the card in review.  When he can both pronounce them AND spell them correctly without hesitation, then move it to mastered. This extra step seemed to really solidify things for my kids.

 

Your goal is for him to reprogram how he thinks about this word.  We don’t want him to think “studint†when he says it fast.  We want him to think “student†even when he says it fast–and by saying it slow and showing that it truly is an /e/ sound, he can make that transition.

 

You may need to spend a lot of review time on these words. I found it helpful to keep words like this in daily review until my kids could think of the pronunciation easily and write it easily as well. If they have to stop and think or self-correct, it's not mastered yet. I usually waited until a Monday to move cards, because if my kids remembered a word over the weekend, it was more likely to stay mastered. If he misses it later in dictation and can't easily correct it when you say something like, "There's one spelling error," then put it back in daily review again.

 

For tricky words like this one, I also did weekly reviews for a few weeks before moving it to mastered. That extra review seemed to help mine. Use that review box to it's fullest potential :-).

 

If my kids really got stuck on a word, sometimes I backed off and had them read the card daily for a week. When they would read it, I'd ask, "what part of the word is tricky?" or, "Is there a letter that's hard to hear?" or some other question. Get him to identify that there is an E in that second syllable, even if we muffle it and don't say it as a short E in our daily speech. Then after doing that for a week, we'd try spelling the word again. I also showed the word card after they spelled each one for additional visual reinforcement. 

 

Over time, AAS teaches 4 main spelling strategies--I found this article helpful. Hang in there, he'll get it!

[Farrar]

Mostly just sympathy. AAS helped by poor speller a lot. His spelling now mostly makes sense. However, it didn't help him get to correct spelling... something like "studint" could be right... I mean, "int" and "ent" are pronounced the same in many accents. Now that we're a little ways down the road from it, I feel like this was maybe the biggest weakness of AAS, at least for us... there's a lot of teaching about the different choices for sounds - like whether it's "er" "ur" "ir" etc. but my kid didn't seem to retain any of that. Overprounouncing for spelling didn't help him and that was AAS's main trick for this issue.

[ByGrace3]

Just an encouragement, I saw very little retention in AAS 2. However if I reminded ds of the rule, he could apply it. Now towards the end of AAS 3 I am starting to see things click a bit more and see it showing in his writing.

[sbgrace]

My son just couldn't remember the look of words. So he spelled things phonetically correct, but with a wrong choice of phonogram. Rules don't help with that so, despite knowing them all, he just didn't retain.

We switched to Apples and Pears. It teaches a few rules which always work and emphasizes breaking into sound bits (morphemes) and visual memory otherwise. It was a much better fit.

[T'smom]

I definitely do the over-pronouncing. We just have so many in the review that I feel like we never move forward. I know there isn't a "test", but we keep working on the words until he gets them, but then he'll get them right, but after a couple weeks of non-daily practice, he's forgotten it.

 

The thing that is really killing me is that in every other subject, he cries/whines/complains about not being able to spell anything. For example, dictation in FLL2 or answering a question on a science paper. I end up writing everything down for him to copy. We've basically given up dictation in FLL2- I do make him write the sentence, but he is doing it as copy work. When there is a sentence that I think is pretty easy, we try the dictation and it never goes well. (Not because he can't remember what I'm saying, but because he can't spell) I thought by 3rd grade this would start to get easier.

 

Merryathope- I appreciate the detailed answer. I am taking it to heart.

 

I also appreciate knowing that I am not alone!

[FO4UR]

Good spellers are great at holding a visual memory of the words that they read.

 

Work on building up the visual memory.  Apples & Pears has a good deal of this built in to their program.  Charlotte Mason word building uses visualization as a key component.

 

My struggler could not keep pace with Apples & Pears, and I reformatted the program linked in my siggie for him. Visualization is the core part of his spelling lesson, and the phonics and rules are an aid to that visual memory...and not the other way around.  The old 1919 Pearson spelling program has only a few words per day, a very tight spiral, and sentence dictations for application and review.  

 

[MerryAtHope]

I definitely do the over-pronouncing. We just have so many in the review that I feel like we never move forward. I know there isn't a "test", but we keep working on the words until he gets them, but then he'll get them right, but after a couple weeks of non-daily practice, he's forgotten it.

 

Both of mine struggled, but especially my oldest, so I can definitely relate! If you have a lot in review, then don't move forward. That will just create more gaps and forgotten words later. I know it seems counter-intuitive to NOT move forward--it feels like that's not progress--but it creates a more solid foundation along the way if you take some breaks from new lessons and add in extra review.

 

After he gets a word right, don't move it yet--let him get it right, easily, several days in a row first.

 

Another thing you can do--keep a stack of recently mastered words and use them to alternate with the newest words he's learning. You can mix in a couple of recently mastered words each day and go through them another couple of times before moving them to mastered. If you have to move a word back to daily review, keep it there longer the next time etc...

[BusyMom5]

I'd suggest giving A&P a try!  If your child is a visual learner, it will definitely help!  I'm using AAS2 w/ my 2nd graders, and so far they haven't had much trouble- I do the over-pronouncing, and I also write up my own 'worksheets' for them to do in a notebook, like which words have Long I, which words have Long A, which have 'er' and which have 'ur', or whatever the lesson happens to be.  I find that having them analyze the words and categorize them helps them a lot!  A few weeks ago it was words that ended in -se or -ze, but all sounded the same.  I had them separate them into groups a few times that week, based on spelling. 

[sbgrace]

If you want to stick with AAS, do incorporate review word lists.

 

Do things to help that visual memory:

Write misspelled the word correctly, highlighting the tricky/hard to remember parts.

Have the child close eyes and visualize the word, spell it forward. Then spell it backward (this part really helps my weak visualizer/speller).

Finger write the word on a textured surface. We do it on a corduroy fabric. Again, the child should do something to highlight the part that is misspelled.

 

Keep recycling those words the child once misspelled to make sure the retention sticks.

 

I'm a fan of Apples and Pears though. I really think it's worth a try. Do just a page or 1/2 a lesson per day.

[sweetpea3829]

I always thought that the real point of AAS was that it really isn't so much the words that are important but more so mastering the rules that govern how to spell the words.

 

We are in level 5 this year with my 3/4 th grade kids. My 9 yr old had a hard time remembering the rules when we review them, but she generally applies them pretty well in her daily use, as long as she isn't rushing.

 

My 8 yr old...he was an early reader and does very well in school. He remembers the rules real well during review. But his application in general use is pretty awful. Yesterday during dictation, he spelled "these" as "theyses".

 

But, his application of basic grammar has been appalling lately, too. I mean, forgetting to capitalize sentences? Forgetting punctuation? Honestly, I am tending towards it being more of a lack of attention, than a weakness in the program. He has been very distracted lately.

[YsgolYGair]

I'll be honest, I really wanted a rules based program, but when I started looking ahead to AAS 2, that was when I completely reconsidered the rule based method. AAS 2 was confusing even to me, and I know how to spell! So, at that point, I looked for something else and ended up with Modern Speller. Words are introduced in the context of sentences and there's a combination of word patterns and memorisation. I, personally, think it's the only way to go with English. There's just too many exceptions.

[newhsmom]

My daughter is in level 5 and we are really starting to see progress.  She is not a natural speller and it has been a long journey.  One thing I decided was that she needed more time with the review cards.  Once we started that, we saw a huge improvement in retention.  The other thing that is finally happening is that she can now tell if something doesn't look right even if she doesn't know how to fix it.  I have just come to the conclusion that for some kids learning to be good spellers takes a lot of time.  My daughter may never be able to spell the way a natural speller can, but she is making progress. 

[kalusignan]

 I have him write the ones he misses 3 times in addition to following the exercises in the book, 

 

I also tried this with my dd, and it did not work. After watching a presentation by Andrew Pudewa (IEW) about spelling, I realized that I was teaching my daughter in a very visual way (writing the words out 3 times, having her study the cards, etc.) instead of how SHE learns best. She's very auditory! Pudewa suggests having the student spell words orally so they can hear the order of the letters. I went back through all of our AAS2 word cards in this manner before moving on to AAS3, and it's been working for us. When using AAS3 and the word cards, we spell as much as we can orally, and that seems to take the stress out for us. Less erasing!