Need a different 2nd grade math - suggestions?

[Dulce Domem]

So I have a new 2nd grader, and we are S.T.R.U.G.G.L.I.N.G. with math this year.  We are STILL working through MUS alpha from last year.  We went very slowly last year because he was struggling, and we also had a major move halfway through the year.  I kept thinking he just needed more time developmentally to be able to handle concepts, but we are just needing some more help or a change.

 

We have used Math U See from the beginning with him - doing most of primer & almost all of the way through alpha.  But he either just isn't getting it OR he just finds it so dull that he has no motivation to apply himself.  I think it's the latter - he just isn't engaged with the material.  

 

And quite frankly, I find MUS to be great for math-y kids, but very overwhelming and too much "how math works" info for a kid who doesn't have math strength in his wheelhouse.  My fourth grader is (mostly) fine with MUS (although teaching multiple digit multiplication may kill me - and I feel like they skipped some important steps in there, but that's another topic...)

 

Any suggestions for something that would either take a completely different approach and/or work great for a kid who needs just straightforward math?  Mastery or spiral, I don't really care.  We just need something else.  

 

Thanks!

 

ETA:  He is a young second grader who just turned 7 in June, which is why I've always just assumed he needed more time.

[Tiramisu]

He is still young. 

 

It sounds like you're looking for a program that emphasizes procedures over concepts, but I'm not sure if that's best given what you're describing. If he's having trouble with math, I think you're not going to want to skip a chance to build conceptual understanding. And I don't know if you're ever going to find anything much more straightforward than Math U See unless you feel the blocks take away from it being straightforward. Two of my kids hated most manipulatives and were better with visual representations so I understand that part.

 

You could try something like CLE that has a lot of review. I love CLE and had good experiences with an one child, but I had a bad experience with my youngest who really did not develop an understanding of what the math on the paper represented in the real world after using the CLE 100 and 200 levels. I was having someone else teach her so it wasn't exclusively CLE's fault. Once I realized what was going on, I switched her to Singapore. I really think we would have run into huge problems later on if I didn't make that switch, and that's why I'd recommend that even if you switch from Math U See, don't abandon the goal of building conceptual understanding.

 

Have you had his vision tested? I often think kids struggle with math because they have mild visual difficulties that strain their eyes and affect their processing of concepts.

 

 

 

 

[Kiara.I]

We use Rightstart around here, and I like it.

If it's the conceptual stuff that's holding him back, Rightstart would likely help with that. I don't know whether it would help with boredom or not.

[Dulce Domem]

I think he understands conceptually - how can you not understand simple addition & subtraction?  He gets that addition is putting two numbers together is addition, and taking one number from a bigger number is subtraction.  I think what has hung him up is that MUS does not teach it in a straightforward manner.  Instead of saying, "9 + 3 = 12" it goes into, "Well, nine is like a vacuum cleaner and sucks up one, and becomes ten, which just leaves two, so it's is one-ty two."  I think we would have more success with a program that is "Here are all the problems with +9 - practice them.  Use counters or blocks if you want."  I think that it just befuddled him at the beginning, and now he is hesitant to continue because it all comes across like gobbledy-gook to him.  Does that make sense?

 

He reads well above grade level out of books with tiny print, so I don't think it could be vision.

 

He is my very very visual kid.  In kindergarten we did the Developing the Early Learner books, and he adored them because of the pictures.  They have probably been his favorite thing to do ever.  He would finish the paper, then spend ten minutes drawing scenes around all of the fun pictures.  

 

So - straightforward with some conceptual/number sense built in that isn't baffling, with some fun practice pages.  I at first thought MUS would be a good fit because the pages are so simple it wouldn't distract him, but I think it's having the opposite effect.

 

(FTR, I am all for conceptual understanding in math, I just don't think that the way MUS explains things is going to be a good fit for this particular kid.)

[rochenan]

I think CLE might be your answer. We switched to it this year. I had my 6 year old using Abeka and he hated it. I couldn't figure out why. There is nothing wrong with Abeka. We used manipulatives and the books are colorful. It seemed pretty traditional. For fun we did Miquon and Life of Fred, but if I took out the Abeka book he would be miserable. It's not that he wasn't learning math, but rather it wasn't ordered and logical as much as he needs. CLE has been amazing for him. The difference has been night and day.

We are done in 20minutes. It's so logical and efficient. He loves the format of it. It's not overwhelming and it makes sense. I never thought CLE would be the math program he would like, but he is so happy with it. My advice would be to look it over, take a placement test and buy a light unit and see how it goes.

[Tiramisu]

I think he understands conceptually - how can you not understand simple addition & subtraction?  He gets that addition is putting two numbers together is addition, and taking one number from a bigger number is subtraction.  I think what has hung him up is that MUS does not teach it in a straightforward manner.  Instead of saying, "9 + 3 = 12" it goes into, "Well, nine is like a vacuum cleaner and sucks up one, and becomes ten, which just leaves two, so it's is one-ty two."  I think we would have more success with a program that is "Here are all the problems with +9 - practice them.  Use counters or blocks if you want."  I think that it just befuddled him at the beginning, and now he is hesitant to continue because it all comes across like gobbledy-gook to him.  Does that make sense?

 

He reads well above grade level out of books with tiny print, so I don't think it could be vision.

 

He is my very very visual kid.  In kindergarten we did the Developing the Early Learner books, and he adored them because of the pictures.  They have probably been his favorite thing to do ever.  He would finish the paper, then spend ten minutes drawing scenes around all of the fun pictures.  

 

So - straightforward with some conceptual/number sense built in that isn't baffling, with some fun practice pages.  I at first thought MUS would be a good fit because the pages are so simple it wouldn't distract him, but I think it's having the opposite effect.

 

(FTR, I am all for conceptual understanding in math, I just don't think that the way MUS explains things is going to be a good fit for this particular kid.)

 

Reading this makes me think Singapore might be a good match. My dd describes Singapore as playful. And it does not have any nonsense. You may have to use the extra practice books if retention is an issue like it is with some kids. If he's seven, just start at the beginning and if he has any questions about why the number on the book is different from his grade, you can explain that students in Singapore start elementary school at an older age than in the U.S.

[Aurelia]

CLE might be a better fit, or MEP. Right Start is good, but I'd probably start him in level B, to get a solid foundation. Level C (their 2nd grade) is kind of difficult to jump into without previous experience. Very visual, lots of hands on stuff. Horizons is colorful, straightforward and solid, too. I have a friend whose kids use it up to prealgebra and she loves it.

[Ellie]

So I have a new 2nd grader, and we are S.T.R.U.G.G.L.I.N.G. with math this year.  We are STILL working through MUS alpha from last year.  We went very slowly last year because he was struggling, and we also had a major move halfway through the year.  I kept thinking he just needed more time developmentally to be able to handle concepts, but we are just needing some more help or a change.

 

We have used Math U See from the beginning with him - doing most of primer & almost all of the way through alpha.  But he either just isn't getting it OR he just finds it so dull that he has no motivation to apply himself.  I think it's the latter - he just isn't engaged with the material.  

 

And quite frankly, I find MUS to be great for math-y kids, but very overwhelming and too much "how math works" info for a kid who doesn't have math strength in his wheelhouse.  My fourth grader is (mostly) fine with MUS (although teaching multiple digit multiplication may kill me - and I feel like they skipped some important steps in there, but that's another topic...)

 

Any suggestions for something that would either take a completely different approach and/or work great for a kid who needs just straightforward math?  Mastery or spiral, I don't really care.  We just need something else.  

 

Thanks!

 

ETA:  He is a young second grader who just turned 7 in June, which is why I've always just assumed he needed more time.

 

FTR, I wouldn't consider a 7yo "young" for his grade, because (1) homeschoolers aren't in grades, and, well, (2) homeschoolers aren't in grades, so you're going to teach him what he can learn at his own speed.. :D Even if he was in school, I wouldn't consider him young." I say this as someone whose bday is in July, married to someone whose bday is in September, who didn't turn 7 until after he'd been in school for a few weeks. *He* was "young."

 

Anyway.

 

Possibly your ds just doesn't need the manipulatives and all that. And IMHO, "mastery" vs "spiral" isn't the place to start with choosing math. Traditional (ABeka, BJUP, Horizons) vs process (MUS, Miquon, etc.). Since you've tried a process math and your ds isn't happy, maybe a traditional math would be better. My favorite traditional math is Rod and Staff: excellent scripted lessons in the teacher manual (necessary for the first three grade levels), a variety of learning activities in each lesson, stealth rigor. :-) And it's inexpensive.

[eternallytired]

RS is a bit spendy, but B was absolutely awesome for foundational math concepts.  It does just like you're talking about, picking one number at a time and working on how to add it.  For example, they have you learn to add tens.  That's pretty simple, so then they say, "Well, nine is just one less than ten, right?  So if you're adding nine, it's just one less than if you added ten!"  And then you do a bunch of practicing with games or worksheets or oral math before moving on to sevens and eights.  I loved it for making the process seem common-sense instead of getting abstract (like your vacuum cleaner example!), and once the process is understood, the child is scaffolded until they have achieved mastery--very methodical, no confusing conceptual leaps.  Both kids who have gone through RS-B so far have come out with a really impressive concept of numbers and an ability to manipulate numbers and use what they know to solve difficult problems.

[bayareanative]

One of my daughter's struggled a lot last year (when she was in second grade).  Her twin is much more advanced in math and so she seemed that much more behind and I was very worried.  I kept trying to push a curriculum that wasn't working for her (MEP) and it created a lot of stress for us both. Some tears too :(  Finally I gave up December through February. When I went back to it I stuck with games, basically super basic dice and money games since those were the only things she was willing to do.  We stopped any real math work over summer.  We continued to play board games that involved numbers, dice games and card games (21/blackjack) but just from time to time.

 

Now in 3rd grade I decided to try Right Start Level C. (I'd done Right Start B with her sister 2 years ago and we breezed through it).  Things are suddenly clicking in a big way. She loves the math balance and she FINALLY sees how the abacus is helping her and she is grouping 5s and 10s in ways she couldn't understand before.  I think soon I will need to get Right Start D for her as she is catching up really fast to where she should be.

 

Her twin did Right Start B 2 years ago and the concepts she learned there help her still and she is excellent at mental calculating. 

 

All this is to say I recommend you check out Right Start. I think it's an excellent program.  I also suggest you try to allow yourself to worry less and let things kind of sink in/settle for your son, because I wish I'd done that more myself.  Sometimes I really think it's just a developmental thing and the kid just needs to be ready for certain concepts and there is no way to force it. It comes when it comes.

 

Good luck!

[mamakelly]

My 2nd grader is very logical. We did Saxon math for the past 2 years and all of the "make a train with chairs and stuffed animals" to practice addition and subtraction (getting on and off the train), made him crazy. We switched to CLE this year and he's flying through it. It's been fantastic for him. He loves the little checklist at the top of the lesson that lists math fact practice etc..you really can't go wrong with it. You can print off the placement test for free and the books are so inexpensive, you could order one just to see if it works for him.

[rebcoola]

My very visual and logical daughter did well with Singapore math but we didn't use the manipulatives or the HIG much the pictures were what "spoke" to her it might be a good fit for your son to.

[Tsuga]

If someone started talking about vacuum cleaners during a math session I might be tempted to hit them over the head with one.

 

We love Singapore. It is very straightforward, with the perfect combination of pictorial theory and straight add-em-up.

[MrsWeasley]

I think he understands conceptually - how can you not understand simple addition & subtraction?  He gets that addition is putting two numbers together is addition, and taking one number from a bigger number is subtraction.  I think what has hung him up is that MUS does not teach it in a straightforward manner.  Instead of saying, "9 + 3 = 12" it goes into, "Well, nine is like a vacuum cleaner and sucks up one, and becomes ten, which just leaves two, so it's is one-ty two."  I think we would have more success with a program that is "Here are all the problems with +9 - practice them.  Use counters or blocks if you want."  I think that it just befuddled him at the beginning, and now he is hesitant to continue because it all comes across like gobbledy-gook to him.  Does that make sense?

 

 

 

Another vote for Rightstart. Especially with a very visual child who is struggling with basic operations, I think a program that focuses on visualizing problems like Rightstart does in the beginning of its program will really help him. 

[Spy Car]

FTR, I wouldn't consider a 7yo "young" for his grade, because (1) homeschoolers aren't in grades, and, well, (2) homeschoolers aren't in grades, so you're going to teach him what he can learn at his own speed.. :D Even if he was in school, I wouldn't consider him young." I say this as someone whose bday is in July, married to someone whose bday is in September, who didn't turn 7 until after he'd been in school for a few weeks. *He* was "young."

 

Anyway.

 

Possibly your ds just doesn't need the manipulatives and all that. And IMHO, "mastery" vs "spiral" isn't the place to start with choosing math. Traditional (ABeka, BJUP, Horizons) vs process (MUS, Miquon, etc.). Since you've tried a process math and your ds isn't happy, maybe a traditional math would be better. My favorite traditional math is Rod and Staff: excellent scripted lessons in the teacher manual (necessary for the first three grade levels), a variety of learning activities in each lesson, stealth rigor. :-) And it's inexpensive.

 

Ellie, this "process" math categorization you've come up with is entirely unhelpful.

 

There aren't two program that are more dissimilar than MUS and Miquon. If you insist in jamming both them into a category because both use manipulatives, it shows how meaningless that "categorization" really is.

 

A better way to categorize math programs is to ask whether the programs promote a deep understanding of the mathematical laws behind operations in a way that reaches children (or not)? Do the programs promote critical thinking, logic, and problem solving (or not)? And do the programs promote competence in both standard algorithms and mental math skills?

 

When these questions are answered (hopefully positively) then spiral vs master is a secondary consideration. The "process math" categorization is valueless. If manipulative help, use them. If they are used in a way that doesn't help, don't use them (that way).

 

Bill

 

[Slache]

Ellie, this "process" math categorization you've come up with is entirely unhelpful.

 

There aren't two program that are more dissimilar than MUS and Miquon. If you insist in jamming both them into a category because both use manipulatives, it shows how meaningless that "categorization" really is.

 

A better way to categorize math programs is to ask whether the programs promote a deep understanding of the mathematical laws behind operations in a way that reaches children (or not)? Do the programs promote critical thinking, logic, and problem solving (or not)? And do the programs promote competence in both standard algorithms and mental math skills?

 

When these questions are answered (hopefully positively) then spiral vs master is a secondary consideration. The "process math" categorization is valueless. If manipulative help, use them. If they are used in a way that doesn't help, don't use them (that way).

 

Bill

This was unnecessarily rude.

[Rosie_0801]

Do a quick search on dyscalculia. If you think you're dealing with that (and really, it's very possible not to understand simple addition and subtraction, and very possible not to be able to do it even if you do understand) take a look at CSMP and begin with the grade 1 level, working through as many lessons each day as he can comfortably manage.

[SnMomof7]

Another vote for CLE. It is traditional...and MUS had almost zero retention for my kiddos due to lack of cumulative review and...yes...the spiral. We love it :).

[RosieCotton]

Rod and Staff, or CLE would probably be a wonderful change up.

 

Singapore if you have the time to read up and prepare for the lessons in advance.

 

If not, go with one of the first 2 programs.

 

 

[kalusignan]

My dd7 struggled through MUS Primer and Alpha. I finally gave up on it last spring and moved to RightStart B. So glad I made the switch!

[KSinNS]

So, I love MUS beta, gamma, delta, and most of epsilon. I HATE alpha. The whole vacuum nonsense confused the heck out of my poor kid (I've only used it for one). So with her (and my plan for the rest) is I used Grubes method for teaching arithmetic (free on archive, sorry I can't link) to get the facts to 20 and introduce multiplication and fractions and develop some number sense. Then Beta, because beta is great! All those tricks are weird, slow, and confusing.

 

I do think he does a great job of teaching place value, regrouping, and the multiplication and division algorithms. Simple addition....ugh.