Dealing with Adult Siblings with Very Naive Views of Life?

[JumpyTheFrog]

My younger brother is almost 30. He spent three years at college after high school, largely failing classes because of his excessive video game use and poor executive function skills. (He was evaluated by the school for ADHD as a child and was found not to have it.)

 

Since then, he has bounced around from one poorly paid light manufacturing job to another. Unless he gets his act together, he's going to be stuck in $12-14/hr work all his life. His wife is also a late bloomer, doesn't drive, and has just this year been able to work a part-time retail job without getting overwhelmed and quitting after a few weeks. Needless to say, their financial situation is precarious, and he is once again getting by with a borrowed car.

 

Unfortunately, my brother seems given to fantastical ideas that he says he'll do, but doesn't. I think it is made worse by all the motivational guru types I think they listen to. I've already learned just to smile and nod, and wish him luck, because he is the type who gets extremely offended if you try to suggest that perhaps his ideas aren't a good fit for him. He has a somewhat strained relationship with our parents because they aren't good at being diplomatic and keeping their mouths shut.

 

My parents are worried about them having kids because of their finances, his wife being so easily overwhelmed, and because of his incredibly naive view of what having kids is like. (A recent example: He is convinced that little kids are always rational and that even toddlers will magically cease throwing a fit if you figure out why they are upset and fix it.)

 

My SIL seemes to be getting more interested in having kids sooner than later, maybe because many of her friends and family are doing so. While I would never say anything to anyone, I am concerned that if they do have kids, at some point DH and I might wind up raising them.

 

In any case, I was hoping that someone might have some stories where people they knew finally got their act together and finished growing up. I am not really asking for advice about what to say or do because I already know to keep my mouth shut. I am looking for hope that maybe at some point he will choose and follow through on a career path with more stability and better pay.

[JustEm]

My brother is 34, lives with my parents, and has struggled his entire adult life to keep a job. He finally got his Bachelors a few months ago, has a job lined up to start in November and will finally be moving out of my parents' house and moving across the country for his job. My sister was a mess as a young adult because of mental issues but pulled it together once she had her first child at 22. Now she has 3 kids and runs her own business.

 

Of course there are people who never get their act together.

[MinivanMom]

My brother pulled it together after getting engaged to a nice girl. I don't think that's an uncommon situation, and I have seen many "Peter Pan"-types who got their act together after getting married, having kids, or getting away from the extended family. Sometimes it just suddenly happened for no particular reason that I could discern as an outsider.

 

I have also seen couples who never quite developed maturity or found a career path with stability, but who were really loving, caring parents. I don't think the video gaming, job insecurity, or sil's anxiety are necessarily an indication that they would be poor parents. Unless there's a lot more you aren't sharing (and I realize there may be), it seems like a huge leap to think you might have to step in and raise their (not-yet-conceived) children down the road.

[wonderchica]

I don't think it sounds that bad, certainly not to the point of others needing to raise their children. I know plenty of people who were immature in their 20s and don't work high paying jobs who are okay parents. Most people don't have a good understanding of children or what parenting entails until they're parents themselves. Hopefully they will get it together a bit more, but I wouldn't worry too much based on what you shared.

[Anne in CA]

Well, I know plenty of people who got their act together later in life, my own dh included. Due to substance abuse he threw away his twenties, worked in restaurants and had a bad first marraige and was very nutty about several things. But... in his thirties he married me, went to college built a good corporate career and now owns two restaurants, so he is not doing badly, in his 50's lol.

 

HOWEVER, I know many people who have never grown up at all. I have a cousin who is dh's age who still lives in my aun'ts basement despite a genious IQ. So I don't think your fears of raising their children are unfounded, because my guess is that unless they makde the decision to grow up they are not going to be good parents. My guess is that you will not raise their kids. Immature people hold onto their kids for all they are worth and use them to blackmail relatives for financial help. Don't even ask me how I know. But that is not just my own experience I have seen it with other people I know and from people on the boards here over the years.

 

There is little that you can do other than be loving to any children they do have, because you might be the best influence they have.

 

 

[Tsuga]

Sometimes they grow up. Sometimes they don't. It can be hard to watch.

 

In all fairness, a lot of people start out with really wrong ideas about kids and come to their senses quickly.

[Guest]

Kids have a wonderful way of maturing their parents. Quickly. I'm not too worried, based on the information given ;)

[Katy]

You know I think I even read once that the IQ of new parents increases quickly once they have a little one.  Initially it was thought to be a hormonal response, but it's equally true for dads.

 

As long as they don't have substance abuse issues they'll probably be fine.

[Guest]

Unfortunately, my brother seems given to fantastical ideas that he says he'll do, but doesn't. I think it is made worse by all the motivational guru types I think they listen to. I've already learned just to smile and nod, and wish him luck, because he is the type who gets extremely offended if you try to suggest that perhaps his ideas aren't a good fit for him. He has a somewhat strained relationship with our parents because they aren't good at being diplomatic and keeping their mouths shut.

This actually sounds to me a lot like the manic phase of Bipolar disorder.

 

I do have some experience with aimless adult relatives. In one case, the errant individual never did alter course much and died under possibly preventable circumstances. (Not to scare you.) in another case, the errant person "found God" and really did make a remarkable turn-around by age 30. So one never knows.

[Katy]

This actually sounds to me a lot like the manic phase of Bipolar disorder.

 

I do have some experience with aimless adult relatives. In one case, the errant individual never did alter course much and died under possibly preventable circumstances. (Not to scare you.) in another case, the errant person "found God" and really did make a remarkable turn-around by age 30. So one never knows.

 

Yeah...  does bipolar run in your family at all?   If it's just immaturity, children will mature.  But bipolar doesn't mature, unfortunately.

[JumpyTheFrog]

No mental illness in the family, as far as I know, except maybe one of my mom's cousins.

 

In July they both quit their jobs and were going to move in with my parents to help run their business. They got one load of stuff moved (from another state) in, stayed a day or two, and then moved out. SIL was able to get her old job back but my brother had to look for a new one. Fortunately their landlord hadn't found new tenants yet, so they were able to keep their apartment.

 

They seem to listen to a lot of these "get rich quick" motivational speakers. He has all these various business ideas and announces how rich he'll be within a year, but then doesn't follow through. Some people are disciplined enough for self-employment, but he is not. It's possible that he does have ADHD.

[maize]

You know I think I even read once that the IQ of new parents increases quickly once they have a little one. Initially it was thought to be a hormonal response, but it's equally true for dads.

 

Could be hormonally triggered in dads, both mom and dad experience increased oxytocin levels after a baby joins the family.

[abba12]

Having a baby does have a special way of maturing a person, and plenty of poor businesspeople still make great parents. There's lots of wonderful, caring, loving parents in ghettos and poor neighbourhoods. Based on what you've said, I think you're using one element of life to judge a fairly unrelated element unfairly. Are they generally kind people? Do they care about the emotions of others? How do they interact with their families? These are much more important aspects in predicting their ability to parent. 

 

As for the tantrum thing, I think a lot of non-parents think that. 

[The Girls' Mom]

My dad got it together at 40 (just in time to raise his second child, my younger brother by 20 years).  

 

My brother is 33, and only seems to be going backwards in maturity.  I don't hold out much hope for improvement.  Thankfully, his wife is much older, has grown kids, and they will not be having more.

[bolt.]

While there is "hope" -- the "late bloomers" in my life also tended to be slow learners.

 

They learned slowly: mostly through the school of hard knocks, which they were certain was not their fault at all -- and the next pie-in-the-sky will actually be just perfect. Like, decades of learning like that.

 

The thing is, it's ok. It ok for people to scrape by and go through the optimism-victimism cycle. They aren't hurting anyone that much. Even if they have kids, kids thrive on unconditional love even from under-competent parents (and therefore frequently come out of poverty with flying colours).

 

So I'm going to suggest that you give up on "hoping" as a function of giving up on minding their lives at all. Let it run through your fingers like beach sand. When (if) there's a baby, you seem ready to be the back up plan to see to it that the child is not abused or neglected... Which is lovely, and very generous. Other than that, let them ride the waves. The world needs people like that too.

 

The reason I say this (after bailing out my BIL a few times, and wishing I could be the one handing his kids) is another story of a couple with a man like this.

 

He married a woman with a physical disability (he was sure she would be fine) who was nearly crippled by pregnancy (they were sure it wouldn't happen every time, but it did), had a first baby who required multiple infant surgeries (each one sure to be the last!) and, they found out when she was 4 that she (the child) has an incurable, debilitating and fatal condition and is likely to pass away between 8 and 12 years old. She's 10. They are still running on his naive (nearly idiotic) optimism, as he looses every job he gets (not his fault! the next one will be fantastic!) fights for drug coverage for astronomical monthly prescription costs (unfair evil companies treating them unfairly... New possibility should be flawless!) and going to disneyworld on credit cards (it will be easy to pay them off later when life is easier).

 

He's less naive now (especially about at least trying to keep a job) but I'd hate to think of what this life would have done to someone of a different personality type: more prone to sensible levels of worry and responsible choices. I admire him (and his wife, who is not quite like that, but easily follows his enthusiasms) to an incredible degree. It takes quite an unusual view of life to keep scraping the poverty line, coming up from troubles on the power of anger, but facing the future with unqualified gullible optimism. Some situations just NEED those people. (Not just tragedies. I imagine they thrive in a lot of was that many of us don't understand.)

[JumpyTheFrog]

They learned slowly: mostly through the school of hard knocks, which they were certain was not their fault at all -- and the next pie-in-the-sky will actually be just perfect.

Yes, some people only seem to learn the hard way. He is one of them. I am glad that he's not the partying type.

 

Someone else mentioned they didn't see anything that seemed that bad. He is very prickly and doesn't want to hear anything but purely positive accolades about his ideas. Any hint of "well,mwhat if xyz were to happen?" seems to send up a huge defensive wall.

 

A few months ago we were discussing his latest business idea and when I dared to suggest that something or other might be a little more work than he thought, he proclaimed that I "don't understand how the internet works." This was because I didn't automatically believe that merely having a website would make paying customers line up. It's ridiculous because we grew up with my mom having a home based business, so it should be very obvious that customers don't just appear out of nowhere.

 

Another example is a blog or website he asked me to look at once. He had made a list of everything he'd ever helped with as if he were proficient in those areas. Having helped some on a roof job once as a teenager doesn't mean someone can list himself as a "roofer."

 

I love my brother, but it is frustrating to see how far from reality his view of himself and his ideas are. So I just keep my mouth shut and pretend it is practice for when my kids are teenagers. It seems he is going to have to learn the hard way.

[73349]

Parenting is a wonderful opportunity for personal growth.

[imagine.more]

My mil's brother, a nice guy if goofy and opinionated, was very inconsistent and slow to mature. He spent many years in various short term jobs and traveling, driving trucks, etc. But by a bit before 40 he married a nice woman with 2 boys, settled down, helped raise them and they had a kid together and he got steady employment through the county. Now he's had promotions and they have a nice house and the boys are all raised and doing well. Mil still rolls her eyes at some of his loud opinions or goofiness but in general she's been pleasantly surprised at what a responsible husband, father, and employee he's become.

 

I still hope someday my own brother grows up but I doubt it because my parents praise his wayward lifestyle.

[lailasmum]

I always felt my sister was really naive however she is not really a person still waiting to launch, she's successful in her job and education. She has quite limited ideas on how the world works, thinks she knows it all though and it's a strange combination with the success She struggles outside of her limited area of knowledge though and will pull back into her comfort zone. I wonder how she's got to where she is without noticing more though I've been told that her type of job (government) often can go with a very limited outlook on life. I haven't had any contact with her in a few years so not sure what she's like now.