Storygirl Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 My three youngest are enrolled in school for the first time this year. I think we are going to ask DS11's teacher for a conference to discuss math. We have several concerns, and I'm not sure that the teacher is really understanding how much DS is struggling. Before we talk to her, I'm interested in hearing about what math class looks like in other fifth grade classrooms. * How does the teacher evaluate classroom work and homework? Does s/he actually correct papers and mark wrong answers, or does s/he just check for completion? * If the student gets an answer incorrect on homework or in-class work, how does the teacher address it? Does s/he merely give the correct answer verbally ("this answer should be ten") or by writing it on the paper? Or does the teacher review the process for getting the answer with the student in some way to make sure that the student understands? *If problems are wrong in homework or classwork, does the teacher expect them to be redone and resubmitted so that s/he can see whether the student now understands? * If the student needs additional explanations to understand the material, does this happen during class time, by pulling the student over for one-on-one time or small group review? Or is the student expected to seek afterschool tutoring? * Is afterschool tutoring an appropriate first response to a student having difficulty, or would it only be recommended after the teacher has worked more closely with the student during class time? There are a lot of details I could mention about our own situation, but it's complicated, and first I really just would like to have a picture of what is typical in other math classrooms. Thanks for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellydon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 My three youngest are enrolled in school for the first time this year. I think we are going to ask DS11's teacher for a conference to discuss math. We have several concerns, and I'm not sure that the teacher is really understanding how much DS is struggling. Before we talk to her, I'm interested in hearing about what math class looks like in other fifth grade classrooms. * How does the teacher evaluate classroom work and homework? Does s/he actually correct papers and mark wrong answers, or does s/he just check for completion? I've worked in public schools, so my answers are based on that--- Most teachers graded all the work and mark the answers. * If the student gets an answer incorrect on homework or in-class work, how does the teacher address it? Does s/he merely give the correct answer verbally ("this answer should be ten") or by writing it on the paper? Or does the teacher review the process for getting the answer with the student in some way to make sure that the student understands? Usually does not address it. *If problems are wrong in homework or classwork, does the teacher expect them to be redone and resubmitted so that s/he can see whether the student now understands? No. Sometimes, if grades are an issue, the work might be re-submitted for a higher grade. * If the student needs additional explanations to understand the material, does this happen during class time, by pulling the student over for one-on-one time or small group review? Or is the student expected to seek afterschool tutoring? Some teachers may offer before school help once or twice a week for 15 minutes. If a student is seriously struggling and not getting it along with the majority of the class, then they would recommend two things 1)parent seek tutoring 2) special education testing for a learning disability. * Is afterschool tutoring an appropriate first response to a student having difficulty, or would it only be recommended after the teacher has worked more closely with the student during class time? After school tutoring. The teachers have 20 ish kids. Providing individual instruction above and beyond the general instruction provided to the entire class is too much to ask. Most teachers are doing all they can just to get through the material for the class as a whole. Providing one-one tutoring during class time would extremely difficult. If the classroom is lucky enough to have an assistant, then the assistant might be able to provide some extra help. There are a lot of details I could mention about our own situation, but it's complicated, and first I really just would like to have a picture of what is typical in other math classrooms. Thanks for sharing! I've worked in multiple school districts from PK-12th grade. The pressure on teachers is quite enormous. Schools usually have a tutoring list they keep in the front office. They do have volunteers that come in and read to kids, but I've not seen a similar program for math. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 For my local public school. There are 33 to 35 kids per class in 5th grade. Work gets gone through in class and marked by the kids themselves as teacher go through on the board. Homework is checked for completion. No tutoring unless LD. People would afterschool or hire a tutor if kid needs help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Library Momma Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 At my dc's school 5th grade about 20 kids per class The teacher corrects and returns homework. The teacher and/or a tutor will periodically work with different groups of students depending on their level within the class. The struggling students usually have more tutor time. Students with LDs also have additional pullouts for the services they require If a student has a specific question or concern they can work with their teacher during reccess or after school as needed (depending on the teacher). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Thanks to everyone who responded so far! I'm interested in hearing more from others, if anyone has something to contribute. A bit more info: DS11 was diagnosed by a neuropsych with dyscalculia (among other things), and we have officially requested school evaluations for an IEP. Since he has always been homeschooled until now, the school wants to "see for ourselves" :glare: , and the intervention teachers are observing and assessing him during this first part of school before official evaluations begin. There is a long back story to all of this that I won't go into here. We can see from the work he is bringing home that he is failing to understand the material, but we have reason to believe that the classroom teacher is not recognizing the severity of his needs. She is inconsistent with grading and corrections and has frequently been putting a check mark at the top of his work page, with no other marks at all, even though some of the work (sometimes most or all of the work) is completely incorrect. Sometimes she will mark some incorrect answers but not others on the same page. They have their first test on Friday, and I suspect she will be startled by his score, because she is not sufficiently tracking how he is doing on his daily work. We have created our own spreadsheet to make a record of what is happening with each assignment, but we also plan to talk to the teacher and the intervention team. Having a picture of what math class looks like generally will help me know what to bring up with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellydon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Thanks to everyone who responded so far! I'm interested in hearing more from others, if anyone has something to contribute. A bit more info: DS11 was diagnosed by a neuropsych with dyscalculia (among other things), and we have officially requested school evaluations for an IEP. Since he has always been homeschooled until now, the school wants to "see for ourselves" :glare: , and the intervention teachers are observing and assessing him during this first part of school before official evaluations begin. There is a long back story to all of this that I won't go into here. We can see from the work he is bringing home that he is failing to understand the material, but we have reason to believe that the classroom teacher is not recognizing the severity of his needs. She is inconsistent with grading and corrections and has frequently been putting a check mark at the top of his work page, with no other marks at all, even though some of the work (sometimes most or all of the work) is completely incorrect. Sometimes she will mark some incorrect answers but not others on the same page. They have their first test on Friday, and I suspect she will be startled by his score, because she is not sufficiently tracking how he is doing on his daily work. We have created our own spreadsheet to make a record of what is happening with each assignment, but we also plan to talk to the teacher and the intervention team. Having a picture of what math class looks like generally will help me know what to bring up with them. If you already have testing, the school cannot 'wait and see.' They must convene and IEP meeting with 30 days of your request to review the testing. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleowl Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Teachers have varying philosophies (and varying work ethics), so I think a lot of what you're asking about can really differ from one classroom to the next. Some teachers believe homework is for practice *only* and should not receive a grade, so they have students check their own work, though the teacher may note whether it was completed or not. Questions may be answered in a whole-class setting - usually if one person had difficulty with problem #4, there are others who had difficulty with it as well, so the teacher wants to help all of them at once. So the fact that she hasn't worked with your son one-on-one does not necessarily mean she's not working to assist students who have difficulty, kwim? What would concern me is the inconsistency. Either completion (or an attempt at completion) is the goal or correctness is the goal, but to change it up on the kids is confusing. Kids need to know what's expected of them. As for marking some incorrect but not marking other incorrect problems on the same page - I can think of at least three possibilities here. 1. The answer key is wrong and the teacher is simply looking at whether the child's answer matches the answer key. 2. The teacher just missed it in her haste. 3. The teacher has selected a few key problems to check for correctness as a representative sample of the child's work. (I had a teacher for precalc & calc who did this, but it was very clearly explained that this was the system she used.) It's worth addressing to make sure you understand if there's a good reason, and/or she can adjust her methods if there's not a good reason. I'm sorry you're having difficulty getting them to listen to you. I hope your meeting proves fruitful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storygirl Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Yep. They issued a prior written notice denying evidence of disability for "lack of classroom data." :cursing: They want to observe him during the first nine weeks and then reconsider. I know they are circumventing the law. We're working on addressing that. I would post more about it, but I've already hashed it out in ugly detail elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellydon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Yep. They issued a prior written notice denying evidence of disability for "lack of classroom data." :cursing: They want to observe him during the first nine weeks and then reconsider. I know they are circumventing the law. We're working on addressing that. I would post more about it, but I've already hashed it out in ugly detail elsewhere. I would not expect extra help from the teacher. I would also not expect progress or help once your child enters special education. In my extensive experience with special ed, skills are not truly remediated. The kids are just coasted along do work under grade level rather than actually getting therapy to improve skills or learn different ways of doing things. Ask to sit in the special ed 5th classroom for a few hours...... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almondbutterandjelly Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 My dd has attended, in her lifetime, two private schools and one public charter school. At each and every school, the math instruction, in my opinion, has been subpar. I have had to do extensive "tutoring" myself, constantly. Daily. And that is one of many reasons why we are back to homeschooling. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Where I live in NYC, the schools recently started a program to bring parents into the classrooms to see how things are done - two days a year they invite adults in to see their child in a typical English class and a typical math class, and they also have q and a sessions. I found this really interesting when the girls were in school. I don't know if your area has a program like that, but it may be possible to ask if you can do something similar, or at least if teachers at your local school can answer your questions. With that said, in my experience, elementary classrooms do not correct homework, like, at all. But our classes are pushing 30 kids at that level. As for tutoring, a child who is doing poorly in tested subjects - math and reading/writing - is generally referred to extended day, which is an additional 150 minutes every week (in varying configurations) for those. In some schools they can also be used for enrichment. The younger kiddo went to a school with mandatory extended day twice a week in the afternoon , and those who didn't need help did cooking or soccer or whatever. The older one, different school, had optional extended day three days a week in the morning where those who didn't need help could study trains or journalism. (But google suggests that the new mayor has altered this in the recent contract?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Last year my 5th Grade son when to one of the best elementary schools in the huge LA Public School District. His homework was checked graded, and corrections were noted. The graded and corrected homework was passed back. Ordinarily that was it for homework. Test were similarly graded and handed back with corrections. If significant numbers of students got test problems wrong the teacher would go over the problem, if not the topic. Both 5th Grade teachers kept their rooms open during lunch and after school to help students having problems. They also held a "before school" enrichment class for students hoping to get into accelerated math programs, science programs, or special honors programs in Middle School. One of the teachers also did private tutoring. Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 We have a generally well-regarded school district. In fifth grade and definitely in middle school, the students were responsible for checking their own work. Corrections were not required. In elementary school, students could attend help sessions at recess. In middle school, they have help sessions at recess and after school a few times a week. So there is plenty of time to get help for motivated students. The student's motivation is key, though, because those sessions are optional and no one will follow up. Our guidance counselor told me that even though IEP's take time to implement, they will implement a 504 plan immediately. It was recommended to me to do this to get some coverage until the IEP process got going. All that is necessary is a letter from a doctor or other specialist documenting a disability. I don't know the legalities of 504 plans, what is covered, and if our school district is particularly easy about implementing them, but it might be something to look into. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 That doesn't sound far off from what I have experienced either. Homework Iis generally given a participation grade with the students self checking while the teacher announces answers. It does sound like the school will see that the student is struggling as a result of the upcoming test, but that is exactly what they need to see if you want child tested (not legally correct but fits with what the school is doing). If the teacher provided a lot of extra help and the student did okay on the test (ok imeaning not failing) then the school would say that there was no educational need for evaluation. Basically, the kid has to fail repeatedly before the school will agree to test. (Not saying this is legal, but that is just they way it is in some districts unless you get lawyers envolved) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleWMN Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 We had this issue with my daughter who has dyscalculia. We put her in public school last fall, they didn't believe the evaluations, wanted the teachers to evaluate for themselves. At 9 weeks she had a D (this was with us working on math 2+ hours a night). They refused to put a 504 into place until she failed completely. In pre-algebra. Unacceptable. She's now in private school with a program for learning disabilities and it's going much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerka528 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 All of my kids in private school have their math homework graded daily. If they score less than a 70%, it comes home for corrections. They use Saxon, so constant review is built in. Their grades are posted online daily, so it is easy for parents to monitor and catch low grades immediately. They also have classes with less than 10 kids, so there is time for individual attention if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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