blue daisy Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 If you have a gifted or advanced child in PS, what are some ways the school is accommodating them or meeting their needs? I'm asking because I'm trying to see if my expectations for our school are appropriate. Thanks. :) (cross posted in Advanced Learners board) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I answered in the Accelerated forum, but will copy my answer here as well: Not really any. The teachers were willing, but too overworked to spend any extra time and effort on my gifted kids. Teachers are measured by how well the lowest performing students do - so gifted kids who do well on standardized tests are left alone to read fiction all day long, as long as they are not disruptive. We had a gifted program, but that was too little and not actually an appropriate academic challenge, but rather a more fun break from the boredom. We only solved the problem by pulling them out to homeschool. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Library Momma Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 K-2 Children are not yet identified as gifted and Talented in these grades -differentiation within the classrooms meaning different math and reading levels and assignments sometimes within groups and sometimes individualized -pull out enrichment opportunities. Out of about 175 students in the grade about 50 are designated as eligible for these opportunities usually reading related. 3-5 Students may be identified at Gifted. -Classroom differentiation continues -in school enrichment opportunities are available and they are more specific to Reading, Science and Art. Again about 40-50 students are eligible -After school enrichment opportunities are available as well. -some schools also have a TAG program at this point for the identified students. Middle School 6th - 8th -Students that have been identified as Gifted and Talented or are identified at this point are provided an IEP and participate in a TAG program. There are only about 6-10 students per grade that are eligible -Some classes such as English and math are leveled and all classes still have differentiation within the classroom. -All students participate in "Whatever it Takes" periods during the day that offer enrichment and/or assistance as needed -Any grade or class advancement would reflect the student's IEP High School -Advancement would reflect the students IEP obviously at this level point all classes are leveled into College, Honors or AP (sometimes there is a 4th -something like Advanced Honors) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 When my DD was in public school (just one year, 1st grade) she tested in for math but not language arts (she's mildly dyslexic so that wasn't a surprise). She was moved to a 2nd grade class for math along with a handful of her classmates from other 1st grade classes. There were some 2nd graders as well who were moved up to 3rd so this created space. This "walk-to-math" approach was implemented school-wide. With language arts, students were allowed to choose books at their reading/interest level and grouped and re-grouped for discussion purposes. This was a strong elementary school so there weren't many below-average kids, just average and above-average. The district has separate, stand-alone elementary school programs (self-contained) for exceptionally gifted students. There was little/nothing for profoundly gifted students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue daisy Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 When my DD was in public school (just one year, 1st grade) she tested in for math but not language arts (she's mildly dyslexic so that wasn't a surprise). She was moved to a 2nd grade class for math along with a handful of her classmates from other 1st grade classes. There were some 2nd graders as well who were moved up to 3rd so this created space. This "walk-to-math" approach was implemented school-wide. With language arts, students were allowed to choose books at their reading/interest level and grouped and re-grouped for discussion purposes. This was a strong elementary school so there weren't many below-average kids, just average and above-average. The district has separate, stand-alone elementary school programs (self-contained) for exceptionally gifted students. There was little/nothing for profoundly gifted students. They did this for my oldest son. Actually he was double accelerated for math, so by the end of third grade he completed fifth grade math (in the fifth grade classroom). Last year, he qualified for pre-algebra, but they didn't have a way to provide it for him, so they had him work individually on a computer program (no teacher instruction) doing sixth grade math. This year, he is supposed to be doing pre-algebra on a computer program but it hasn't started yet (we started school a few weeks ago). My second grader is also quite advanced in math, but now they are saying they will not subject accelerate because once they get to the higher grades, they don't know what to do with those kids. :( There are other areas I'm looking at too for gifted instruction, so I really appreciate all the responses. This is just one particularly stressful area. My second grader has been quite vocal to me about being bored and frustrated in math. All in all, our school seems to want to accommodate these students, but the actual follow through is lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaVT Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 In Vermont, it depends on the school. When we took DS to K screening, the teachers basically told us to homeschool him. We were informed that he would get to sit and read a book to himself during all academic times throughout the school day. They said they'd love to have him and we were welcome to send him, but if homeschooling was an option, they'd encourage it. Most schools here don't do anything for accelerated kids, they teach to the middle and have extra help for the kids with higher needs. The accelerated kids get to sit back and wait until the class catches up to where they are academically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 They did this for my oldest son. Actually he was double accelerated for math, so by the end of third grade he completed fifth grade math (in the fifth grade classroom). Last year, he qualified for pre-algebra, but they didn't have a way to provide it for him, so they had him work individually on a computer program (no teacher instruction) doing sixth grade math. This year, he is supposed to be doing pre-algebra on a computer program but it hasn't started yet (we started school a few weeks ago). My second grader is also quite advanced in math, but now they are saying they will not subject accelerate because once they get to the higher grades, they don't know what to do with those kids. :( There are other areas I'm looking at too for gifted instruction, so I really appreciate all the responses. This is just one particularly stressful area. My second grader has been quite vocal to me about being bored and frustrated in math. All in all, our school seems to want to accommodate these students, but the actual follow through is lacking. The transition from elementary to middle school content is tricky. If there are enough kids in the district, could they be bussed to a middle school/junior high for first period (or start there and then be bussed back to the elementary to complete the day). In the case of our large district, kids who were accelerated by two years attended a regional elementary program with self-contained classrooms that went K-8. If they're open to suggestions and really want to do something, these might be solutions worth considering, especially if they have enough students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue daisy Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 (X posted) Thanks everyone! I was hoping to get a feel for what others have experienced. The teachers at our school have said that they want to accommodate the advanced learners but in reality, they are offered a little enrichment here and there but it's not really challenging them. I don't know that I would expect more (I was a teacher once, I know what's on their plates!) But it is frustrating none the less. I appreciate the input. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinsomeCreek Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I posted in AL, but had another thought. A lot of the options we now have are a result of change in higher ups. Ive found it worthwhile to go and meet the folks who have the actual decision making ability, such as the superintendent, and attend a school board meeting or two to see the flavor of folks making decisions. I've had things come full circle and bear fruit from seeds planted some time ago. Most of all I have seen a greater willingness to offer support when I do the same. Your offer to take your kid to middle school or high school for math, rather than demanding the school find a way, may make a difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue daisy Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 The transition from elementary to middle school content is tricky. If there are enough kids in the district, could they be bussed to a middle school/junior high for first period (or start there and then be bussed back to the elementary to complete the day). In the case of our large district, kids who were accelerated by two years attended a regional elementary program with self-contained classrooms that went K-8. If they're open to suggestions and really want to do something, these might be solutions worth considering, especially if they have enough students. I posted in AL, but had another thought. A lot of the options we now have are a result of change in higher ups. Ive found it worthwhile to go and meet the folks who have the actual decision making ability, such as the superintendent, and attend a school board meeting or two to see the flavor of folks making decisions. I've had things come full circle and bear fruit from seeds planted some time ago. Most of all I have seen a greater willingness to offer support when I do the same. Your offer to take your kid to middle school or high school for math, rather than demanding the school find a way, may make a difference. Thank you. These are some good ideas to ponder. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's also worth it to look at where the cut offs are and where your child fits within them. I'm in a poor area, and one that doesn't have much industry requiring a highly educated population, so our average is, well, average. (Or, to be completely honest, a little below average). When I taught in PS, the average entering kindergartner came in 2-3 years behind on verbal and pre-reading skills, and we did a lot of playing catch-up. Not surprisingly, basically any kid who is even slightly above grade level gets into GT. GT is used as a way to get some of the kids out of the classroom on a regular basis so that the teachers can work with those who need help more. It's a high achievers program, not a gifted program. Gifted kids who don't play the game and get good grades and good TCAP scores won't be selected, even if they blow the lid off the COGAT. In my area, a 1st grader reading well and able to write a good sentence with most words spelled correctly is considered gifted. A kid who can do amazing mental math, makes connections, loves science books, but won't read them out loud (but obviously understands them based on his topics of conversation) and who won't do workbook pages isn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsmom Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's also worth it to look at where the cut offs are and where your child fits within them. I'm in a poor area, and one that doesn't have much industry requiring a highly educated population, so our average is, well, average. (Or, to be completely honest, a little below average). When I taught in PS, the average entering kindergartner came in 2-3 years behind on verbal and pre-reading skills, and we did a lot of playing catch-up. Not surprisingly, basically any kid who is even slightly above grade level gets into GT. GT is used as a way to get some of the kids out of the classroom on a regular basis so that the teachers can work with those who need help more. It's a high achievers program, not a gifted program. Gifted kids who don't play the game and get good grades and good TCAP scores won't be selected, even if they blow the lid off the COGAT. In my area, a 1st grader reading well and able to write a good sentence with most words spelled correctly is considered gifted. A kid who can do amazing mental math, makes connections, loves science books, but won't read them out loud (but obviously understands them based on his topics of conversation) and who won't do workbook pages isn't. I wouldn't say that our area is poor exactly as most people here do have a college degree, though we do have a large number of single-income families, but generally this sounds about right for us. And I would strongly agree that our GT program is better described as a high achievers program. Based on my observation, it's more high-average kids admitted into the program than gifted kids. The TAG teachers also look down on the "parent referred" kids, in my experience, despite the fact that in reading about gifted identification, the parents were usually aware of giftedness far before teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeWillSoar Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 When my son was in public elementary school, they had a pull out program that he went to once to three times a week (three times for the higher grade levels). They learned about things like robotics, rockets and architecture. He also had Math Olympiad, which was another pull out time. He really enjoyed those times at school but he hated his regular classes, which he found slow, boring and repetitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattfink Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 The TAG teachers also look down on the "parent referred" kids, in my experience, despite the fact that in reading about gifted identification, the parents were usually aware of giftedness far before teachers. We ran into that in our district. DD missed the age cut-off for K by 35 days, but more than met both the academic and social development requirements. I called the district to see if they would be willing to let her try to test in and they suggested that I contact the magnet school for gifted kids in our district. The principle there refused to believe that my then 4yo (who was starting to read and had recently figured out multiplication on her own) might be gifted or that it was even possible to ID a kid as gifted before 2nd or 3rd grade. They also told me that they would not consider letting her start in 1st grade if we did K at home "a year early" and then she tested into first. Apparently testing here is only to hold kids back, not to let them go ahead. We were already leaning towards homeschooling, but that sealed the deal. Our district has big posters up all over our area trying to convince kids to come back because so many go to charter schools instead, but they won't help the smart kids to not be bored... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 This op-ed was in the WSJ last week. Even though I live in a top performing district, I still choose to homeschool because what is offered is still far below what I can offer at home. Otherwise, I would be squeezing afterschooling enrichment into less ideal times for learning. My PS teacher friends from college have all encouraged me to keep my LO out of school as they said there is really nothing for him there. http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-bright-students-left-behind-1440024541 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My3girls Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 They didn't accept my daughter into the gifted program until 5th grade, because they said she didn't score high enough on some test in second grade. She couldn't retest until 4th grade. At the end of 4th, she took the test. When I asked her about it, she said well I gave them the answers they wanted this time instead of what I thought so now I'm in venture. She met with the "venture" kids once a week beginning in 5th, where they did some logic puzzles and learned the anatomy of a shark. Once they passed on knowing the anatomy, then they were able to participate in a dissection and go to the aquarium. I wasn't impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue daisy Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 This op-ed was in the WSJ last week. Even though I live in a top performing district, I still choose to homeschool because what is offered is still far below what I can offer at home. Otherwise, I would be squeezing afterschooling enrichment into less ideal times for learning. My PS teacher friends from college have all encouraged me to keep my LO out of school as they said there is really nothing for him there. http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-bright-students-left-behind-1440024541 Is there a way to read this without having a subscription? My pediatrician mentioned the same article this morning. I'd like to read and share with DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsmom Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 We ran into that in our district. DD missed the age cut-off for K by 35 days, but more than met both the academic and social development requirements. I called the district to see if they would be willing to let her try to test in and they suggested that I contact the magnet school for gifted kids in our district. The principle there refused to believe that my then 4yo (who was starting to read and had recently figured out multiplication on her own) might be gifted or that it was even possible to ID a kid as gifted before 2nd or 3rd grade. They also told me that they would not consider letting her start in 1st grade if we did K at home "a year early" and then she tested into first. Apparently testing here is only to hold kids back, not to let them go ahead. We were already leaning towards homeschooling, but that sealed the deal. Our district has big posters up all over our area trying to convince kids to come back because so many go to charter schools instead, but they won't help the smart kids to not be bored... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That seems to be how our district works as well. I don't believe they will even give an IEP to high performing students unless they are 2E, but they certainly aren't labeled as gifted in that regard - the school seems to only see that they need help to perform. If your student is simply bored, yet is generally one of the highest performing students in the class, they are left to their own devices and penalized when they have difficulty sitting still with nothing to do or repeating the same work. It's infuriating, and the primary reason we started homeschooling. He gets more accomplished in a single day (4 hours) than he did in a classroom in a week. blue daisy, I googled "Wall Street Journal Gifted" and it pulled up a link where I could read the article without a subscription. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue daisy Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 blue daisy, I googled "Wall Street Journal Gifted" and it pulled up a link where I could read the article without a subscription. Thanks! Got it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue daisy Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 That seems to be how our district works as well. I don't believe they will even give an IEP to high performing students unless they are 2E, but they certainly aren't labeled as gifted in that regard - the school seems to only see that they need help to perform. If your student is simply bored, yet is generally one of the highest performing students in the class, they are left to their own devices and penalized when they have difficulty sitting still with nothing to do or repeating the same work. It's infuriating, and the primary reason we started homeschooling. He gets more accomplished in a single day (4 hours) than he did in a classroom in a week. Our school does not do IEPs for gifted students either. Both of my boys have IEPs for other reasons but nothing is on there about providing gifted services. My older son is quiet and just does what he's told, so they haven't had to work too hard to keep him busy, but my younger son is starting to be pretty vocal about being bored. Add his ADHD and anxiety and I do worry that he'll have some behavior issues. I have to say, our school is really trying to accommodate him, and his classroom teacher in particular is trying a lot of things to make it work for him, but I realize their limitations. Still trying to get DH to agree to Hsing, but I'm hoping that maybe he'll see that we could start with my second grader who seems the most needy right now and see where we go from there. Thanks to everyone for your input. I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymomtime Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I've been following this thread because I'm wondering how my son's public school is going to accommodate him and WHAT accommodations will make me happy or if I'm ok with him not learning anything this year. Right now, he is in Kindergarten but is reading fluently. They sent home today a "concepts of print" book that I'm supposed to read to him. He read it to me, then said it was stupid. He is also supposed to be practicing sight words. He is enjoying Kindergarten, I think he thinks it is fun and easy. He hasn't hit boredom yet. It has only been 5 days of school! Math wise he is probably meeting about 80% of the standards for Kindergarten. He hates doing his homework because they already did the same thing in class and it is too easy right now. I've already talked to his teacher and she said she'd like to see him moved to the first grade for reading, but nothing as far as I can tell has been done. BUT it is only 5 days into the school year! I'm trying to be patient. I don't even know if any assessment has been done. My boy isn't a talker about what he does. Good luck OP. Not an easy road. I can't convince my husband to homeschool without sending him Public School first. (secretly I'm hoping it doesn't work for my son). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsmom Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Our school does not do IEPs for gifted students either. Both of my boys have IEPs for other reasons but nothing is on there about providing gifted services. My older son is quiet and just does what he's told, so they haven't had to work too hard to keep him busy, but my younger son is starting to be pretty vocal about being bored. Add his ADHD and anxiety and I do worry that he'll have some behavior issues. I have to say, our school is really trying to accommodate him, and his classroom teacher in particular is trying a lot of things to make it work for him, but I realize their limitations. Still trying to get DH to agree to Hsing, but I'm hoping that maybe he'll see that we could start with my second grader who seems the most needy right now and see where we go from there. Thanks to everyone for your input. I appreciate it. My husband only agreed after he saw that DS had 100% on all of his standardized test scores for the whole year. He realized that they were using our kid to pad their scores and despite my begging for anything that might challenge him, had never allowed him to do anything other than the standard work - said he didn't need it. Up until that point, DH kind of thought I was blowing things our of proportion. Good luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 The public school's lack of ability to accommodate my highly gifted child is one of the reasons I'm now a homeschooler. He entered K testing 99.9% in almost every subject and at a middle/high school level. Every few years they would have him skip a grade, but they never could figure out what to do with him. Even the gifted program didn't begin to meet his educational needs (they told me so themselves) and he has nothing positive to say about his years in public school. Some of the teachers tried their best, but they didn't have the time or resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 This was our experience, which is the main reason we pulled the kids from school. There were a couple of other issues with classroom management and discipline, but teaching to the lowest level with not much for more capable students was the main reason we left public schools. I answered in the Accelerated forum, but will copy my answer here as well: Not really any. The teachers were willing, but too overworked to spend any extra time and effort on my gifted kids. Teachers are measured by how well the lowest performing students do - so gifted kids who do well on standardized tests are left alone to read fiction all day long, as long as they are not disruptive. We had a gifted program, but that was too little and not actually an appropriate academic challenge, but rather a more fun break from the boredom. We only solved the problem by pulling them out to homeschool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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