Saxon users/anyone with a math curriculum that requires the student to do the work on a separate sheet of paper

[Jennifer132]

My son is doing great with Saxon math in terms of learning the concepts. He is ten and in 6/5. This is our first year with Saxon. Previously he was using a workbook method (Christian Light). So what I'm finding is that he struggles to do the math on a separate sheet of paper. His work tends to be crammed together, disorganized and sloppy. Not because he's being lazy, but he appears to lack the organzational skills to transfer the lesson to a piece of paper. He will sometimes switch the signs (add instead of subtract or something). Or copy the problem down mostly correct, but miss a digit or two and that of course messes up the rest of the problem.

 

Things I've tried:

Graph paper

Taking him down to half a lesson

Having him go back and redo the wrong ones, looking in the book to make sure he wrote it down right in the first place

Giving him plenty of time to complete it

Giving verbal advice on organization after the fact (label the problems, go in order down the page, left to right, etc)

 

Today I tried something, and I copied down the problems for him on paper and had him read the lesson and do the work. What do you know, he didn't miss any and completed it in half the regular time! So is it my fate to copy all his problems down for him, or is there a good way to teach him to organize his work?

[Ellie]

My son is doing great with Saxon math in terms of learning the concepts. He is ten and in 6/5. This is our first year with Saxon. Previously he was using a workbook method (Christian Light). So what I'm finding is that he struggles to do the math on a separate sheet of paper. His work tends to be crammed together, disorganized and sloppy. Not because he's being lazy, but he appears to lack the organzational skills to transfer the lesson to a piece of paper. He will sometimes switch the signs (add instead of subtract or something). Or copy the problem down mostly correct, but miss a digit or two and that of course messes up the rest of the problem.

 

Things I've tried:

Graph paper

Taking him down to half a lesson

Having him go back and redo the wrong ones, looking in the book to make sure he wrote it down right in the first place

Giving him plenty of time to complete it

Giving verbal advice on organization after the fact (label the problems, go in order down the page, left to right, etc)

 

Today I tried something, and I copied down the problems for him on paper and had him read the lesson and do the work. What do you know, he didn't miss any and completed it in half the regular time! So is it my fate to copy all his problems down for him, or is there a good way to teach him to organize his work?

 

If this is the first year he's had to write on actual paper, then it will take time for him to figure it out. I'd stay with the graph paper, and have him check with you after he completes each problem. This is a skill that is valuable, and now is the time for him to begin learning how to do it.

[dollhouse]

I agree that it's an important skill to be able to neatly copy down a math problem and execute it on a separate sheet of paper. My dd struggled with errors due to sloppy work at the beginning of Saxon 5/4 (first Saxon book that requires a separate sheet of paper). We had some success with graph paper, and she liked using a highlighter to indicate her answer. It took months of verbal reminders and suffering the consequence of carelessness (i.e., wrong answers!) for her to make significant progress.

 

One thing that was a hangup for my dd was that she didn't want to "waste" paper and would try to cram her work in too small a space. We had a lot of talks about education being the highest use of paper,and not actually a waste....

[Junie]

If this is the first year he's had to write on actual paper, then it will take time for him to figure it out. I'd stay with the graph paper, and have him check with you after he completes each problem. This is a skill that is valuable, and now is the time for him to begin learning how to do it.

:iagree:   Yes, I would stick with the graph paper.

 

What has worked for us is graph paper notebooks.  Then we don't have so many loose sheets of paper floating around.

[Tiramisu]

That sounds very similar to the problem my dd had when transitioning from Saxon, though we had recognized some writing-related issues prior to that. LIke you, I could also tell it was not due to being lazy, and she did not have organizational problems in other aspects of her life. It turns out she had convergence insufficiency and a tracking problem. Once we had those issues addressed through vision therapy, the problem was eliminated.

[kiana]

Have him copy the problems, leaving LARGE amounts of space, and then check his copying. Then have him do the work and check that. 

 

Separate the skills for now. 

[Nart]

I decided to use Saxon Intermediate 4 instead of 5/4 because there is a workbook so he doesn't need to copy the problems. There are a few that he needs to use another paper because there isn't room in the book. But many of the problems he can write the answers directly in the workbook. 

 

ETA: I think the problems in 6/5 are the same in the Intermediate 5 book but the intermediate book might have a couple of more problems because they always have 30 mixed review problems. So I think you can buy the Intermediate 5 workbook and the problems will be the same. Here is a link to christianbooks that has a sample where you can see if the problems are the same if you click where it says sample

http://www.christianbook.com/saxon-math-intermediate-written-practice-workbook/9781600326851/pd/326850?event=ESRCG#crossboxTab-3

The workbook is less than $10.00

[Tiramisu]

I decided to use Saxon Intermediate 4 instead of 5/4 because there is a workbook so he doesn't need to copy the problems. There are a few that he needs to use another paper because there isn't room in the book. But many of the problems he can write the answers directly in the workbook. 

 

ETA: I think the problems in 6/5 are the same in the Intermediate 5 book but the intermediate book might have a couple of more problems because they always have 30 mixed review problems. So I think you can buy the Intermediate 5 workbook and the problems will be the same. Here is a link to christianbooks that has a sample where you can see if the problems are the same if you click where it says sample

http://www.christianbook.com/saxon-math-intermediate-written-practice-workbook/9781600326851/pd/326850?event=ESRCG#crossboxTab-3

The workbook is less than $10.00

 

Even better than that workbook is the adaptation workbook. That alone makes me want to switch to Saxon!

[sweetpea3829]

While we primarily use dry erase pockets and wet erase markers (Vis-A-Vis fine point) for math, occasionally, eldest DS will need to copy down SM problems from the Review sections in the Textbook.  I give him those review sections as Unit tests.

 

Ahead of time, I figure out how many problems there are and I pre-fold an 8x11 piece of paper, according to how many problems he will need to copy. At first, I put the problem number in each separate box...but at this point, he is able to label his own problem numbers.  

 

I try to make sure I account for the type of problem he is working on, when determining how many folds to make (thus, how big the squares will be).  

[abba12]

Try copying down 3/4 of the lesson and then have him copy down the last 1/4? That way he has an example to work from, he's getting daily practice, and not taking forever to do it.

 

alternatively, dry erase markers and clear plastic work too. 

[jenniferp8]

Our charter school used Saxon and they had the kids do their math on a general form. On a normal size piece of paper it had a narrow column on the right side that was divided and numbered into 15 spaces. This is where the answers go. Makes it very easy to correct. The rest of the sheet was divided into 15 boxes where they would show their work. The back looked the same but was numbered 16-30. If you want me to email you the file you can print, you can pm me.

[Tanikit]

I would not expect a child to figure this out on his own. My DD is much younger but I have insisted on correct spacing - sometimes she thinks I am pedantic - I make sure she writes the number of the problem in the margin with a dot next to it. If she uses the middle of the page she must rule a line down the middle of the page to act as this margin as numbers with dots that give the number of the problem can be confused with decimals later. She must keep all her numbers lined up (ones, tens, hundreds etc - it has taken a while but she now automatically self corrects). She must leave a full line between any problem she does. If answering a word problem she must now (I didn't used to expect this) write out a full sentence with the answer  to show that she has answered the question. After a problem which required a lot of working out or diagrams or a word problem she should draw a line to show that the problem is finished.

 

I will be honest - I went to a school that was totally pedantic about this and only now when I have seen errors in my child's work from setting things out incorrectly do I realise why they insisted on this from so early on. Teach him how to do it neatly - don't do it for him but explain why it should be done and be specific with instructions. By high school we were not being told how to set out our work, but the habit had been taught and we had few problems.

[jenniferp8]

If someone can help me figure out how to upload a pdf, I can post the 30 problem generic math form to the group. I'm not sure how to do it. :huh:

[kiana]

If you're on a computer, click "more reply options" and then "choose file" will be at the bottom. 

[jenniferp8]

ah, ha! Thanks kiana! Here is the math form I was trying to describe.

Math 30 problems worksheet.pdf

Math 30 problems worksheet.pdf

[ZeldaRules]

Does he have to copy all problems? Is he allowed to write on the worksheet? I know some moms reuse curriculum and don't let their kids write on the workbook. My son does have to copy some problems, but if he can do it in his head and answer, or use the small space on the worksheet, I'm fine with that. He's in 8/7 now, and more work is required. He writes his answers on the worksheet, and circles the answers. Work is done on graph paper. His issue is usually copying the answer and making a 9 a 4 when transferring the answer. Sometimes he just has a few errors.

 

We also use the graph paper notebook. We write a bunch of formulas on the front/back of the notebook so he can reference them for problems. ;)

[mamiof5]

Were do you get your graph paper notebooks? Looked online...target and Walmart don't have them, and they are very expensive on Amazon :(

[wapiti]

Generally, where math handwriting is a problem, I'd suggest using a white board as much as possible, large-ish (24x36), on the counter/table/lap.  I'd also allow oral work and/or copy down the problems for him.

 

Last year I bought a bunch of graph paper notebooks at Walmart well after the start of the school year though they were not easy to find (I had to drive farther).  I still have some left over and saw graph paper notebooks at Target as late as last week, though it's likely Target is all out at this point.  Also check Walgreens and your local supermarket, if they carry school supplies.

[BlessedMom]

Mamiof5,

The graph notebooks I got are the "Mead" brand quads.

I got them at Target and they are available with a spiral at the top or the side.

I really like that the lines are a bit lighter.

[regentrude]

Were do you get your graph paper notebooks? Looked online...target and Walmart don't have them, and they are very expensive on Amazon :(

 

Walmart has the Mead 5star graph paper spiral notebooks, and some cheaper ones which are smaller and not as good. The good ones are around $3; we stock up at back to school sales for the entire year.

[Beebug123]

When mine started 5/4 I sat with her and helped her to organize her problem onto notepaper as she went. I remember learning how to set up problems on paper around 4th grade but it takes some practice. I didn't have her use an answer column but she will circle her final answer. Last year she did Math in Focus and sometimes the answers weren't a simple number.

[mamiof5]

Thanks!!! Will have to go check both stores. We do ours in line paper and it's not the best option

[mamiof5]

Found them at Walmart! Thank you ladies! Too bad the cheaper ones have such dark lines :(

[boscopup]

When we switched to textbook work, I sat with my son and helped him place his problems correctly, showed him how to do it, how to circle answers, etc. You may just need to sit and hold your son's hand for a bit as he learns the new method.

 

I also have a piece of lined paper on our school room wall showing which is the front side of the paper. He's starting to get that one... slowly but surely. :tongue_smilie:

[BlessedMom]

Mamiof5,

So glad you found some!!

I am not a fan of the darker lines.

Target had the Mead ones on sale, buy one get one 50% off a couple of weeks ago, so they may do that again soon??

 

[KarenNC]

I buy graph paper and graph paper composition books (the ones without the spiral, like the marble-covered composition books) at Office Depot. We stocked up during the back to school sales relatively cheaply.

 

If Target has them, the school supplies should be on clearance about now, I would think.

 

When my daughter was younger, we had a small, personal-sized dry-erase board with a grid on one side. That's what we used when she started learning to copy math problems. If you can't find such, you could draw a grid on a small board with a permanent marker. You could use a lighter color for the lines, then a darker one to do the problems. I think I found ours in the dollar section at Target, but that was a long time ago. Check the dollar store. Dollar Tree says they carry the blank boards. http://www.dollartree.com/office-school/desktop-accessories/Dry-Erase-Boards-with-Markers-8-frac12-x11-/610c613c613p341743/index.pro?method=search

 

Things will be slow on the board, but my daughter transitioned to regular graph paper pretty easily. You may want to get the graph paper with a slightly larger (4 to the inch rather than 5) to start off.

[mamiof5]

Mamiof5,

So glad you found some!!

I am not a fan of the darker lines.

Target had the Mead ones on sale, buy one get one 50% off a couple of weeks ago, so they may do that again soon??

Thank you so much!!! Will go to Target soon. With 2 doing Saxon we'll be going through those quick. We were doing it on lined paper, but I am thinking graph paper will help us keep it more organized :)

[Faithful_Steward]

Saxon includes a master worksheet in the tm (recording forms b&c). I copied enough for each lesson before the school year started and now I just include them in our weekly folders.

 

They're actually pretty awesome because they have little check boxes for everything: warm up, mental math, problem solving, homework check, error correction, lesson, lesson practice, and mixed practice. There are sections for mental math answers, problem-solving including a checklist of strategies and space to work it out, labeled work spaces for lesson practice, and graph paper divided into numbered boxes for mixed practice solutions.

 

Changed.Our.Lives.

 

:)