I really, really need writing/composition help - 4th/5th grades.

[pocjets]

I honestly have no clue what to do. This is for my 2 daughters in 4th and 5th grades. We've never done anything formal since 1/2 grades when we did WWE 1 and 2. I occasionally have them write summaries from history but that's about it. We've also stared and stopped IEW 2 times now because I really just don't like it. However, now I have nothing for them to do. I don't know how much they should be writing or really even what they should be writing? I need some kind of guidance. 

 

I'm currently doing GWG and both girls like that so I didn't know if I should try WWW? I also have R&S books 4 and 5 so I thought I could just pull the composition exercises out of those books and have them work through them? Should I go back and do WWE 3? Anything else I should be considering? 

 

But along with a writing curriculum, what else should they be doing? Is that enough? Do I need to require writing summaries from history and/or science each week/more than once a week/how long?

 

I feel like I'm on top of everything but this and they are getting older now so I know I have to figure this out. 

 

THANK YOU!!!

[3girls4me]

I didn't really like IEW either, as much as I tried.

We have done WWE through level 3 and like it, but it gets repetitive and sometimes my dd get bored.  We still do it, but we rotate in other things.  For my oldest, (5th) she's actually going to an online writing class with The Potter's School, but before that, and now with my 2nd grader, we go back and forth between WWE and Essentials in Writing. (EIW)  We've used some W&R in there also.  But for your situation, I would consider a combo of WWE and EIW.

 

[SilverMoon]

Those are great ages for the Writing & Rhetoric books. They have narration and dictation too, but they're not the primary focus. W&R is engaging and easy to use. You could share a student workbook and do many exercises orally, with actual writing in a separate notebook.

[Oakblossoms]

I would have them work on written narrations of their readings this year. You can start with writing them from oral narrations if they balk at that.

 

The oldest could start on Jump-In Writing this next year. I love it. It is easy and straight forward. It is, also, not some giant overwhelming book ;)

[ByGrace3]

Writing and Rhetoric is wonderful, and so is Treasured Conversations. Both are great options for that age. 

[IfIOnly]

Meaningful Composition. Pulls some of the great things about IEW, but I like the approach better.

 

Website with samples: http://characterinkblog.com/mc-samples/

[Aurelia]

I like Treasured Conversations for those grades.

[pocjets]

I've never heard of Treasured Conversations or Meaningful Compositions. I'll go check those out. Thanks for all of the ideas so far. 

[IfIOnly]

I've never heard of Treasured Conversations or Meaningful Compositions. I'll go check those out. Thanks for all of the ideas so far. 

 

You're welcome! MC gives you a 20 page free sample per book, so you can really get a feel before purchasing. I like that.

[alisoncooks]

Meaningful Composition. Pulls some of the great things about IEW, but I like the approach better.

 

Website with samples: http://characterinkblog.com/mc-samples/

Thanks for this link! I was interested in MC a few months ago, but all I could find was their old site (which made it seem like the business was no longer functioning).

 

Or maybe I shouldn't thank you, since now I'm rethinking my writing plans.... :p

[IfIOnly]

Thanks for this link! I was interested in MC a few months ago, but all I could find was their old site (which made it seem like the business was no longer functioning).

 

Or maybe I shouldn't thank you, since now I'm rethinking my writing plans.... :p

 

Oops, sorry! :P I like MC because  it's super hand holding. I need that. I'm learning right alongside my kiddos!

[pocjets]

Oops, sorry! :p I like MC because  it's super hand holding. I need that. I'm learning right alongside my kiddos!

 

 

Where do you actually purchase it? The samples look great! Thank you!

[IfIOnly]

Where do you actually purchase it? The samples look great! Thank you!

 

https://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?subject=English%2FWriting/7&category=Meaningful+Composition/8177

 

It's not the cheapest thing out there but less expensive than a tutor or private school class. At least, that's how I justify shelling out for things that make my life easier but are on the higher end. :)

[IfIOnly]

I should add that this isn't for someone who's a natural writer or a mom who feels confident in her teaching abilities. Here's a review that sums things up nicely.

 Sandra D. from United States wrote the following on 08/13/2012:
Pros: -All is included in this manual -No need to learn a whole method to begin -Morally upstanding, and Christian content -Literature used is usually worthwhile, (not twaddle) and interesting. Cons: In my area, the KEY WORD APPROACH to writing is very popular. Everyone seems to be Using either this program or IEW. However- this is what you need to know... Key Word Approach is not for children who love to write, write a lot already, and have lots of ideas and vocabulary exploding out. THE KWO approach was not for my family, because we love to write. My children have been writing stories, poems, and compositions since they were 2. We began by them dictating to me and have always slowly worked up to them writing on their own. This KWO approach sucked all the joy out of writing for us, and was stifling and annoying. However, if you have a child that gets a writing prompt or an essay assignment and sits there with a blank stare, or turns in something that is disorganized, lacking in variety of sentence structure and crisp vocab, then this program will work wonders. I have a friend that uses the KWO approach and loves it because her child always said, "I don't know what to write!" If you have a child that turns out four times as much as you asked them to write, and it is fairly organized and using creative, crisp vocabulary, look elsewhere.

 

 

https://www.rainbowresource.com/proddtl.php?id=045731&subject=English%2FWriting/7&category=Meaningful+Composition/8177

 

ETA: I let my kids veer from the book a bit. For instance, there are five specific question to answer for writing a paragraph on describing your bedroom. I let them swap questions with their own ideas, if they'd like. No biggie.

[Ellie]

I honestly have no clue what to do. This is for my 2 daughters in 4th and 5th grades. We've never done anything formal since 1/2 grades when we did WWE 1 and 2. I occasionally have them write summaries from history but that's about it. We've also stared and stopped IEW 2 times now because I really just don't like it. However, now I have nothing for them to do. I don't know how much they should be writing or really even what they should be writing? I need some kind of guidance. 

 

I'm currently doing GWG and both girls like that so I didn't know if I should try WWW? I also have R&S books 4 and 5 so I thought I could just pull the composition exercises out of those books and have them work through them? Should I go back and do WWE 3? Anything else I should be considering? 

 

But along with a writing curriculum, what else should they be doing? Is that enough? Do I need to require writing summaries from history and/or science each week/more than once a week/how long?

 

I feel like I'm on top of everything but this and they are getting older now so I know I have to figure this out. 

 

THANK YOU!!!

 

I wouldn't try to do just the composition lessons in R&S's English.

 

Writing Strands, Level 3 or 4, would be my recommendation. Each book is approximately a semester's worth of writing instruction.

 

You could require writing summaries in history, too, if you want to. That wouldn't take the place of actual writing instruction, of course.

[IfIOnly]

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/174984-reviews-of-meaningful-composition-for-writing-instruction/

I saw that a secular version of MC is offered. I didn't look into but did want to mention it. Here's a WTM thread about MC including adapting it for secular use.

[pocjets]

I wouldn't try to do just the composition lessons in R&S's English.

 

Writing Strands, Level 3 or 4, would be my recommendation. Each book is approximately a semester's worth of writing instruction.

 

You could require writing summaries in history, too, if you want to. That wouldn't take the place of actual writing instruction, of course.

 

 

Would you only do Writing Strands even though it's only 1 semester of instruction? Should I do both R&S and WS?

[Ellie]

Would you only do Writing Strands even though it's only 1 semester of instruction? Should I do both R&S and WS?

 

No, I wouldn't do both R&S and WS.

 

The author expected writing instruction to take up about half of a year of English; the other half would be reading/literature, grammar, vocabulary, etc. You can see that with other publishers, such as R&S and ABeka and BJUP...writing instruction and assignments are interspersed with other elements of English.  I would do the same with WS: do a couple of WS lessons, then do grammar and literature, then a couple more WS lessons, and so on.

 

Which is also to say that I think some other writing materials make writing instruction much more of an ordeal than it needs to be (not PHP products, of course!),

[Tiramisu]

I really like MC. I was lucky to find the book I wanted used to get a good look at it. 

 

The only thing I don't like about MC is the font. It's very small and I have a dd who is in vision therapy now. That's the reason I decided to hold off on it for now, though I love the step-by-step approach and hand-holding.

 

OP, my recommendation for kids who haven't written a lot before is to limit significant writing to one area a day. For example, if you have to write a paragraph or narration one day in their writing program, I wouldn't have them do a written history narration the same day. Eventually, some kids can do that without a problem, but I'd start out with realistic expectations and not overload them.

[Another Lynn]

Another option is to listen to Susan Wise Bauer's seminar on teaching writing in the middle grades.  http://peacehillpress.com/index.php?p=product&id=128

[Guest]

...

Edited June 25, 2016 by Guest

[SnMomof7]

I would second looking into Essentials in Writing. It is so easy to use :).

[Pen]

I have found writing a particularly hard area to find a good "fit" for my dc.  For us, Writing Strands was not a good fit at all, while for others it is a good fit.  For us Bravewriter seemed to be the best "fit" back at the age you are asking about.

[...................]

I honestly have no clue what to do. This is for my 2 daughters in 4th and 5th grades. We've never done anything formal since 1/2 grades when we did WWE 1 and 2. I occasionally have them write summaries from history but that's about it. We've also stared and stopped IEW 2 times now because I really just don't like it. However, now I have nothing for them to do. I don't know how much they should be writing or really even what they should be writing? I need some kind of guidance. 

 

I'm currently doing GWG and both girls like that so I didn't know if I should try WWW? I also have R&S books 4 and 5 so I thought I could just pull the composition exercises out of those books and have them work through them? Should I go back and do WWE 3? Anything else I should be considering? 

 

But along with a writing curriculum, what else should they be doing? Is that enough? Do I need to require writing summaries from history and/or science each week/more than once a week/how long?

 

I feel like I'm on top of everything but this and they are getting older now so I know I have to figure this out. 

 

THANK YOU!!!

 

For whatever reason, I don't ever have much success pulling out composition from one book while using another.  And, Rod adn Staff's composition isn't really as great as their grammar.

 

I bought and then returned WWW last year because the layout was very unfriendly to the eye.  One of my kids in particular cannot focus on black and white paper, let alone when the paper quality is poor and the font is ugly.  The black lines given to write on are very jarring to the eye.  Overall, it looked like great writing instruction and seemed pretty logical though.

 

We have had a good amount of success with BJU grammar and Writing.  Up to 6th grade, the chapters alternate between Grammar and Writing.  It's exactly two pages per day, for the entire school year.  Only on the last revision draft of a composition is there not an entire page for the assignment.  It is extremely clear, and self directed with all the teaching included, and a very upbeat positive tone with lots of gentle pastel colors all throughout.  I wouldn't say that it makes my dd jump for joy but she's ok with it and I definitely saw tons of improvement in her writing AND grammar last year, with no tears or pain or confusion.  Very highly recommended.  You do not really need the TM unless you really forgot your basic grammar...even then you can purchase a basic TM from Christian Liberty Press which is about 5.00 ...

 

We will be using it again this year, and just adding in some Creative Writing with The Creative Writer...