"Quietly devastating", "Brutally engrossing" Why are these appealing book reviews?

[momee]

Was looking for some young adult audiobooks on scribd during my free trial and came across these descriptors.

 

Okay, I'm going to admit it.  I am disgusted by the lack of propriety displayed publicly of late.

 

Call me a fuddy duddy, old fashioned or prudish but the sensuality, occult and downright violent nature of books, music and movies has me worried about our young girls.  What in the world are we teaching them as a society?

[Joanne]

I realize that we come from

TOTALLY different places inife and parenting. But why are you specifically worried about "young girls" and not young people?

 

THAT worries me, but I frustrated and jaded because I just walked out of a break out session at an education Administrator conference because of the blatant gender scripting.

 

#slutshaminglives

[TranquilMind]

Well, maybe these particular books were directed at young girls?  That's what I assumed.

At any rate, we need to get rid of all the smut and violence.  Just don't buy it.  Don't support it.  That's the only way to take a stand in this society anymore. 

[momee]

I have daughters and was shopping for them.

 

I am concerned about this issue - for everyone.

 

Even my 90 year old in laws who don't notice the smut so much anymore since they watch so much tv and it's everywhere.  They don't notice my youngest in the room when the news is talking about rape or a commercial about a sexual tv show is on.  

 

Sorry to offend.

[momee]

#slutshaminglives

 

I'm sorry but what in the world does that mean?

 

[Farrar]

I'm so sick of hashing this out about YA all the time. Yeah, it's got some darkness. And just like ye fairy tales of olde, it can be really good for kids. Books about depression, abuse, violence, and darkness can show kids that they can survive, that it gets better, that other people have their experience, or can just represent catharsis. Plus, it's a massive overstatement to say that all YA is like this. There's tons of light, silly YA. And there's plenty of good YA lit that is fantasy or historical fiction. And this is an age when kids can read adult books too, you know. YA isn't about reading level.

[Farrar]

 

#slutshaminglives

 

I'm sorry but what in the world does that mean?

 

 

You don't know the term slut shaming? Or you aren't familiar with hashtag speak?

[momee]

"I'm so sick of hashing this out about YA all the time."

I've never hashed this out and guess I don't read the boards enough.  

Ok - I'm sorry again.

 

Before I slink away probably never posting again, why such a rude comment?   "And this is an age when kids can read adult books too, you know."

 

[momee]

"You don't know the term slut shaming?"

 

No, I don't.

just ignore the thread, my goodness. 

[Farrar]

I'm not sure why I'm being rude in saying I'm sick of people expressing this sentiment that all the YA books are so horrible, but you starting a thread by calling YA books disgusting is okay. I don't think either of us are being "rude" - we're both expressing opinions. Opposite ones.

 

As for slut-shaming, here's a pretty good explainer:

https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/what-is-slut-shaming/

[SparrowsNest]

I realize that we come from

TOTALLY different places inife and parenting. But why are you specifically worried about "young girls" and not young people?

 

THAT worries me, but I frustrated and jaded because I just walked out of a break out session at an education Administrator conference because of the blatant gender scripting.

 

#slutshaminglives

 

In what way does a concern over reading material that is described as "devastating" and "brutally engrossing" have to do with slut shaming?  

[Farrar]

In what way does a concern over reading material that is described as "devastating" and "brutally engrossing" have to do with slut shaming?  

 

Joanne, feel free to correct me, but I think her comment is not about the OP's title for the thread so much as the fact that she is concerned about young girls, specifically and that her post talks about books with sensuality and occult themes and violence, as if these things are inherently of greater concern for girls than boys. That places a greater burden on girls to find books that are "clean" and less of a burden on boys. Which, yes, falls under slut shaming.

[momee]

This is going downhill fast, ladies.  Apologies all around and totally not what motivated me to post.

[Joanne]

"I'm so sick of hashing this out about YA all the time."

I've never hashed this out and guess I don't read the boards enough.

Ok - I'm sorry again.

 

Before I slink away probably never posting again, why such a rude comment? "And this is an age when kids can read adult books too, you know."

You posted an opinion thread, with a question inviting answers. If you did not want a variety of feedback, post JAWM. I actually honor that - I post when I agree and move along when I don't.

 

But. No, I am not worried about the range of reading for younger humans. Although I am not a fan of Twilight (power differential, sexism, gender stereotyping), I am worried about both boys and girls and men and women (50 Shades, anyone). Not because of occult (don't believe in it in the way some do), sensuality is a good thing, and limiting violence would mean also limiting the Bible and history and current events.

 

My reading was unrestricted as a child and teen. I was benefitted by that. Would have been even better with intentional conversation about the topics like I have done with my kids.

[Love]

.  

Edited November 19, 2015 by Love

[poppy]

My favorite books as a kid were Flowers in the Attic, Clan of the Cave Bear, and anything by Stephen King and Dean Koontz. Smut and horror. Good stuff! I loved reading then. And it helped shape me as a reader for life (whose taste are now much different).

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Was looking for some young adult audiobooks on scribd during my free trial and came across these descriptors.

 

Okay, I'm going to admit it.  I am disgusted by the lack of propriety displayed publicly of late.

 

Call me a fuddy duddy, old fashioned or prudish but the sensuality, occult and downright violent nature of books, music and movies has me worried about our young girls.  What in the world are we teaching them as a society?

 

Well they would only be appealing if they are being appropriately applied.  Otherwise I am not sure what you are asking.  If those types of reviews are steering you away from books you don't want to buy, then aren't they doing what was intended?

 

I am not sure  what you believe you teens are being taught.  Mine have been taught there is both good and bad in the world.  If they couldn't handle that simple truth by the time they reach young adulthood I would think I failed as a parent.

[Tenaj]

Was looking for some young adult audiobooks on scribd during my free trial and came across these descriptors.

 

Okay, I'm going to admit it.  I am disgusted by the lack of propriety displayed publicly of late.

 

Call me a fuddy duddy, old fashioned or prudish but the sensuality, occult and downright violent nature of books, music and movies has me worried about our young girls.  What in the world are we teaching them as a society?

 

I agree and I'm very concerned about what I find in our library's YA room.  In fact, we stick with the children's room instead of venturing over into the YA room because of the themes.  When we visit the library, I try to have a list in mind (or in hand) of books that might interest them and try to point them in that direction at least to start.  They do plenty of browsing and picking on their own but we are pretty careful about what comes home with them and we've found our best bet is to stick to the children's department because that's where the classics are.  As they head into their teens we tend to move to the adult section and look for certain authors rather than head to the YA section.  Maybe our library is different, but it seems like all the award winners and really good novels for youth are kept in the children's section rather than the YA room.

 

Have you seen the lists at this website?    http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/celoop/1000.html  It's kept my two oldest busy for years.  They have a contest going to see who can read the most on this list though I think the competition has slowed down now that they are in college.  We also depend on the various literature-based homeschool  cataloges like Sonlight, Veritas Press, etc. to pick out what we consider good books for them to read.

 

 

[Orthodox6]

OP, there are plenty of people who agree with your basic drift as it relates to people of all ages, not just children. We just stay quiet because genuine dialogue never happens for some kinds of solid topic. Only flame-throwing. So very much not worth the time, especially on a message board. Politics, religion, value systems, moral issues, whatever it might be. Just so very not worth the effort.

[6packofun]

 

#slutshaminglives

 

I'm sorry but what in the world does that mean?

 

 

It means that if you don't want your daughter to be a slut--have tons of casual sex with multiple, uncommitted partners--and SAY so, then you're a meanie.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

It means that if you don't want your daughter to be a slut--have tons of casual sex with multiple, uncommitted partners--and SAY so, then you're a meanie.

 

lol No, although your post demonstrates why the phrase exists.

[Word Nerd]

Well that escalated quickly.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

OP, there are plenty of people who agree with your basic drift as it relates to people of all ages, not just children. We just stay quiet because genuine dialogue never happens for some kinds of solid topic. Only flame-throwing. So very much not worth the time, especially on a message board. Politics, religion, value systems, moral issues, whatever it might be. Just so very not worth the effort.

 

Had the OP simply asked if someone could recommend some YA books that fit certain parameters I am guessing she would have received some excellent recommendations.  By starting of with the "everyone is going to hell in a hand basket" approach she is going to get some responses that degree with her post.

 

There is a wide range of YA literature available.  Some good, some terrible.  Some lighthearted, some dark.  The mere existence of literature the OP finds disagreeable does not indicate the downfall of society.

 

[Orthodox6]

Well that escalated quickly.

 

Are you surprised?

 

I posit that we all are too cranky from the summer heat and misfiring in all directions.

[Love]

 

 

.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Love

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Wow.  

 

In our little corner of the world (our churches), both girls *and* boys are expected to stay hands-off until the wedding night.  Of course not every single one reaches that, but I honestly think the concept as a whole works.  Our church (conservative anabaptist) divorce rate as a whole is about 1% (with no remarriage) and strong, romantic, happy marriages are really encouraged and the ministry helps people to get there.  I know that's not even something everyone else necessarily wants, but it works for us.  I went to public high school and was involved in 'the other side', and that's not something I want to encourage my children towards.  No one flame me please, I'm just saying what we do, not trying to tell anyone else here what they should want.

 

Juts be aware that the definition of "slut shaming" given by the person quoted is not related to teh actual definition.

[Orthodox6]

Juts be aware that the definition of "slut shaming" given by the person quoted is not related to teh actual definition.

 

Might qualify as the "secondary definition", though!  There often is one for concept labels. :001_smile:

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Might qualify as the "secondary definition", though!  There often is one for concept labels. :001_smile:

 

 

No, it doesn't.

[Guest]

OP, there are plenty of people who agree with your basic drift as it relates to people of all ages, not just children. We just stay quiet because genuine dialogue never happens for some kinds of solid topic. Only flame-throwing. So very much not worth the time, especially on a message board. Politics, religion, value systems, moral issues, whatever it might be. Just so very not worth the effort.

You're right. It's why I try to remind myself in my signature that some topics are not worth it.

[Guest]

Juts be aware that the definition of "slut shaming" given by the person quoted is not related to teh actual definition.

Also might not have anything to do with the OP. I also have no idea how the OP was interpreted to "slut shaming."

[Joanne]

Also might not have anything to do with the OP. I also have no idea how the OP was interpreted to "slut shaming."

The juxtaposition of being disgusted by sensuality in books and concern for girls.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Also might not have anything to do with the OP. I also have no idea how the OP was interpreted to "slut shaming."

 

Slut shaming aside, it still is a "woe is the world! won't somebody please think of the children!" type of post which will lead to disagreement.

[Orthodox6]

No, it doesn't.

 

. . . an example of our respective, and legitimate, disagreement.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

. . . an example of our respective, and legitimate, disagreement.

 

Disagreement, yes.  Legitimate, no, as the definition you are supporting doesn't exist in reality. 

[Guest]

The juxtaposition of being disgusted by sensuality in books and concern for girls.

Why is that not a valid concern Joanne? Why is it "slut shaming" to not want young girls (if girls are what one is raisng) to read books where sex and violence are romanticized and seen as desirable?

 

I thougt the term grew out of the tragic propensity of legal entities to condemn a woman who was sexually vicitmized because she "deserved it." She wore a tiny, tight dress and so she "asked for" a violent invasion. That is where I thought the term originated. I could be wrong.

[Farrar]

Orthodox, your description of placing the burden of responsible sexuality for young people growing up in your church, while not at all how I would want to raise my kids specifically, is decidedly not slut-shaming IMHO, because you spoke clearly about the burden being on both girls and boys. The OP talked about sensuality being a concern specifically for girls, as if it's not one for boys, thus bringing that term into the conversation. It's uneven application of expectations that makes it slut shaming, not the idea that sex is okay.

[Orthodox6]

Disagreement, yes.  Legitimate, no, as the definition you are supporting doesn't exist in reality. 

 

 

As you like. . . (for yourself, that is).  :001_smile:

[Orthodox6]

Orthodox, your description of placing the burden of responsible sexuality for young people growing up in your church, while not at all how I would want to raise my kids specifically, is decidedly not slut-shaming IMHO, because you spoke clearly about the burden being on both girls and boys. The OP talked about sensuality being a concern specifically for girls, as if it's not one for boys, thus bringing that term into the conversation. It's uneven application of expectations that makes it slut shaming, not the idea that sex is okay.

 

You are replying to someone else's post, I think.  I did not speak of my church community.

 

(It was "PlainMom".  I just checked.)

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

As you like. . . (for yourself, that is).  :001_smile:

 

Making up a definition doesn't make it the secondary definition of a word.

[Guest]

Slut shaming aside, it still is a "woe is the world! won't somebody please think of the children!" type of post which will lead to disagreement.

I don't know. I think the OP walked into a hornet's nest with no idea some people would be upset that she's upset by books she finds degrading. I have seen it happen here before and I think it stinks.

[Orthodox6]

Making up a definition doesn't make it the secondary definition of a word.

 

Are you really enjoying this?    I'm long done.

[Farrar]

You are replying to someone else's post, I think.  I did not speak of my church community.

 

(It was "PlainMom".  I just checked.)

 

 

Sorry... lost track... My bad.

[Word Nerd]

. 

 

[HomeAgain]

Banned Book week isn't for another two months, but here's a list of challenged high school level books that show it's not a new thing, you're just more aware. http://www.bannedbooksweek.org/censorship/bannedbooksthatshapedamerica
 

ETA: I think my favorite statement on those is this: "a degrading, profane and racist work that “promotes white supremacy".

To Kill A Mockingbird will always be a treasured volume here, no matter how degrading, profane, and racist some might think it is.

 

[Farrar]

I don't know. I think the OP walked into a hornet's nest with no idea some people would be upset that she's upset by books she finds degrading. I have seen it happen here before and I think it stinks.

 

Yeah, she clearly was surprised. But she used really strong language in her OP. And then she was upset and called me rude for disagreeing. I get that she didn't expect that there would be any debate, but... it's a forum. And she used strong language to start out. And she didn't say JAWM. Like, if she had said something more like...

 

I'm really frustrated by all of these books with dark themes like sex and violence being geared toward teens. I can't find anything for my kid to read. The reviews say things like "quietly devastating" like it's good. I don't even get how that could be good. Where's all the nice literature for teens?

 

Then, really, this would not have gone quite so badly. But instead she opened with "disgusting" and implying that girls specifically are the ones in need of cleaner books.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I don't know. I think the OP walked into a hornet's nest with no idea some people would be upset that she's upset by books she finds degrading. I have seen it happen here before and I think it stinks.

 

This hasn't been even lose to a hornet's nest, and when you take an extreme position you should expect some responses that disagree.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Are you really enjoying this?    I'm long done.

 

Not really, but when some insist on twisting words to fit their agenda I will point out what they are doing.

[albeto.]

  What in the world are we teaching them as a society?

 

That their ideas, hopes, dreams, fantasies, fears, and questions aren't taboo. And they aren't alone.

[Guest]

This hasn't been even lose to a hornet's nest, and when you take an extreme position you should expect some responses that disagree.

Well, that is just it. I didn't think the OP was such an "extreme position," especially for a hs forum where parents are likely to be more in tune than avarage to what content their children read.

 

But I also learned a long time ago that the word "disgusting" strikes some people with a lot more force than it strikes me. So maybe that has something to do with it.

[goldberry]

Not really, but when some insist on twisting words to fit their agenda I will point out what they are doing.

 

 

When someone is labeled a slut-shamer whether or not they actually shame, involve, or even mention someone else, but simply for holding certain moral values for themselves and their daughters, *that* would be twisting those words.  

 

I recognize not everyone here does that, but that is what I took her comment to refer to.