College counselor recommends dd to apply ED to Davidson

[Ann.without.an.e]

Because she is very likely to get in ED (says the counselor).  She also suggested that while Davidson doesn't love giving merit aid to homeschoolers, they give the same need based aid regardless of whether you are homeschooled. 

 

What does the Hive think?  I never really considered ED before because it isn't smart financially but if a school guarantees to meet all need without loans then is there anything to lose? 

 

 

 

* Just to explain the "likely to get in ED"...

She says that dd is just what they love - strong in all areas, lots of AP classes, and good test scores?  Her words, not mine.

[Hoggirl]

Does Davidson meet 100% of demonstrated need? How is it met? Without loans for sure? Not even Stafford loans are required? What are the student contribution expectations via working during the school year and over the summer? Where are you on being able to afford Davidson? Is the college counselor/consultant aware of your financial situation? Have you run the NPC for Davidson? Do you have any of the more challenging, hard to calculate EFC issues such as owning a business?

 

There is no doubt that applying ED provides a boost in chances at admissions at most schools. UPenn took nearly half its entering class in ED last year and admitted 25% of its ED applicants.

 

Honestly, I am kind of against it unless one knows they can pay full-freight. I did have one friend whose daughter applied to Dartmouth ED and got in. They are pretty dang poor though. It was a sure thing they were going to get enough in financial aid.

[Hoggirl]

Double post - sorry!

[Ann.without.an.e]

Does Davidson meet 100% of demonstrated need? How is it met? Without loans for sure? Not even Stafford loans are required? What are the student contribution expectations via working during the school year and over the summer? Where are you on being able to afford Davidson? Is the college counselor/consultant aware of your financial situation? Have you run the NPC for Davidson? Do you have any of the more challenging, hard to calculate EFC issues such as owning a business?

 

There is no doubt that apply ED provides a boost in chances at admissions at most schools. UPenn took nearly half its entering class in ED last year and admitted 25% of its ED applicants.

 

Honestly, I am kind of against it unless one knows they can pay full-freight. I did have one friend whose daughter applied to Dartmouth ED and got in. They are pretty dang poor though. It was a sure thing they were going to get enough in financial aid.

 

 

The meet 100% without loans (not even Stafford) but they do require about 2,000 contributed from work study.  NPC says the family contribution would be dd's work study plus $5,000/year.  That is running with a higher income (anticipating a raise) and we do not own a business or having anything complicated.

 

I know that ED increases chances and Davidson is a good school but I still hesitate.

[Hoggirl]

Can you pinpoint why you are hesitating? Is Davidson your dd's top choice? It sounds like you have done all the proper homework.

 

Ds had a good friend who got into Davidson last year, but he got no merit money there, and they didn't qualify for need-based aid. It really was his favorite school. He would up choosing W&L with a big ol' scholarship.

 

O/T - Too bad Davidson stopped the laundry service a couple of years ago!

[teachermom2834]

I don't think I would pass up an opportunity to get into Davidson and take advantage of their need based aid with an EFC as low as yours. Going to Davidson for $7000? That is pretty sweet and it is much easier to get in there EA.

 

We met with a counselor there that said we could pretty much count on aid being close to what their calculator estimated. If that is the type of school your dd wants I would go for it only because your efc is not high.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Can you pinpoint why you are hesitating? Is Davidson your dd's top choice? It sounds like you have done all the proper homework.

 

Ds had a good friend who got into Davidson last year, but he got no merit money there, and they didn't qualify for need-based aid. It really was his favorite school. He would up choosing W&L with a big ol' scholarship.

 

O/T - Too bad Davidson stopped the laundry service a couple of years ago!

 

 

DD likes Davidson but it isn't her absolute first choice (at this point).  Don't get me wrong, she really likes Davidson.  She is in love with Wake.  The problem is that Wake has good aid but the aid isn't guaranteed and it includes loans.  She could end up getting a great package from them or ....well....you know.

[Lori D.]

Would that be the financial aid package for all 4 years (provided DD meets the requirements of GPA and credit load) -- or would that only be for the freshman year?

 

It really would stink if DD got a sweet financial aid deal -- but only for the first year...

[TechWife]

Because she is very likely to get in ED (says the counselor).  She also suggested that while Davidson doesn't love giving merit aid to homeschoolers, they give the same need based aid regardless of whether you are homeschooled. 

 

 

 

It's my understanding that Davidson rarely admits homeschoolers. 

[8filltheheart]

So by applying ED she can't apply to WF, correct? Is she the type who would always wonder "what if?" and regret not knowing? Would she be able to accept that the answer to that question might come at the cost of rejection to Davidson and w/o being able to afford WF which means no to both?

 

Fwiw, those sorts of decisions are the ones we stay out of. We discuss big picture and reality and then, when it is their life, the decision is 100% theirs with no connection to us. We would just make sure the consequences of all choices are clearly understood and that they are able to live with their back up plan.

[Jen in NY]

So by applying ED she can't apply to WF, correct? Is she the type who would always wonder "what if?" and regret not knowing? Would she be able to accept that the answer to that question might come at the cost of rejection to Davidson and w/o being able to afford WF which means no to both?

 

Fwiw, those sorts of decisions are the ones we stay out of. We discuss big picture and reality and then, when it is their life, the decision is 100% theirs with no connection to us. We would just make sure the consequences of all choices are clearly understood and that they are able to live with their back up plan.

 

Not exactly - she can *apply* to Wake, but if she is accepted ED at Davidson she'll have to withdraw all other applications. If she is rejected, her applications continue everywhere else like nothing has happened.

 

FWIW, our dds applied to schools that meet 100% of EFC and schools that don't. In the final analysis, the stats available online (like on the college board website, for instance...) were pretty true for us. The two 100% EFC meeting schools met it. The others did not... some by far. There *is* always the possibility that your dd could score a full ride somewhere if she investigates schools carefully --- but if Wake's stats indicate that they probably won't meet your EFC I would believe them and make decisions based on that info. To Lori's question, our finaid has thus far been extremely stable at dds' school. Adding a second kid into the mix has in fact made it more affordable for each daughter, since the EFC is divided between them... so each pays 1/2 EFC + $5000 in loans. (The loans can be offset by private scholarships to further reduce the cost.)

[Gwen in VA]

Does Wake offer any merit aid?

 

Please google Davidson and homeschoolers. As Techwife says, Davidson has a poor history of accepting homeschoolers. (Once upon a time there was a thread on College Confidential of homeschoolers who received 2400's on the SAT and still were rejected -- there were an impressive number of them!)

 

If your dd is interested in a top southern :LAC with GENEROUS merit aid, she should investigate Washington & Lee (ranked only trivially behind Davidson). W&L gives approximately 10% of its freshman class full-ride merit scholarships, and it gives abundant other merit aid. My older two went there -- their eight years there cost us about $15K TOTAL -- and we didn't qualify for much financial aid! If you have questions about W&L, please contact me -- I recommend it with no hesitation as one of the best cheapest top LAC options around!

[Ann.without.an.e]

Would that be the financial aid package for all 4 years (provided DD meets the requirements of GPA and credit load) -- or would that only be for the freshman year?

 

It really would stink if DD got a sweet financial aid deal -- but only for the first year...

 

 

It would be need based.  It would continue to be based on income so unless our income rose significantly, it would be stable.  We would have another entering college her junior year so the EFC would probably go down rather than up.

[Teachin'Mine]

There's many top schools which meet 100% need.  I would look into all of them before deciding to apply ED to one which isn't even her top choice.  Out of the ones which meet full need - verified with the NPC - I'd apply ED to her top choice of them.  If she doesn't get in, she'll still have the option of Wake and any others.   When advice is given saying a school is not homeschool friendly, I'd pay attention especially for the ED slot as you only get one try. For a partial list of schools which meet full need, you can look at the list of 36 Quesbridge partners.  Harvard and others are missing, so look further as well.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Does Wake offer any merit aid?

 

Please google Davidson and homeschoolers. As Techwife says, Davidson has a poor history of accepting homeschoolers. (Once upon a time there was a thread on College Confidential of homeschoolers who received 2400's on the SAT and still were rejected -- there were an impressive number of them!)

 

If your dd is interested in a top southern :LAC with GENEROUS merit aid, she should investigate Washington & Lee (ranked only trivially behind Davidson). W&L gives approximately 10% of its freshman class full-ride merit scholarships, and it gives abundant other merit aid. My older two went there -- their eight years there cost us about $15K TOTAL -- and we didn't qualify for much financial aid! If you have questions about W&L, please contact me -- I recommend it with no hesitation as one of the best cheapest top LAC options around!

 

 

She is very interested in W&L and we plan to visit soon.  We haven't made it there yet.  It is a tad farther from home than she wants to go but I could see her falling in love and counting it worth it ;)  She has been very enamored with the idea of W&L.  A visit is the only way she will know for sure.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Fwiw, those sorts of decisions are the ones we stay out of. We discuss big picture and reality and then, when it is their life, the decision is 100% theirs with no connection to us. We would just make sure the consequences of all choices are clearly understood and that they are able to live with their back up plan.

 

 

I would never push her toward Davidson if she wants to hold out and see all of her options.  The counselor was encouraging her to apply ED to Davidson and I am hesitant because of finances.  I am just seeing what the feelings here are for ED when you know you will get a nice aid based package without loans. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

There's many top schools which meet 100% need.  I would look into all of them before deciding to apply ED to one which isn't even her top choice.  Out of the ones which meet full need - verified with the NPC - I'd apply ED to her top choice of them.  If she doesn't get in, she'll still have the option of Wake and any others.   When advice is given saying a school is not homeschool friendly, I'd pay attention especially for the ED slot as you only get one try. For a partial list of schools which meet full need, you can look at the list of 36 Quesbridge partners.  Harvard and others are missing, so look further as well.

 

 

Thank you.  She wants to stay 2 hours from home and is adamant about not going more than 5 hours.  I believe the only full need met schools (Without loans) in that radius is Davidson and W&L.  We are planning a trip to visit W&L soon.  That may end up being a better option even though it is a bit farther than she prefers.

[JanetC]

I would just like to add that the pool of ED applicants is self-selecting: the kids admitted this round will be kids who also would probably have been admitted if they waited until the regular decision round.

 

There will still be admission slots left in RD, too.

 

Stats for Davidson: 264 out of 1205 admits came from ED

Washington & Lee: 256 out of 1136 admits.

 

The percentage of the enrolling class that comes ED is very high. But in the RD round they admit more than they need to enroll to fill the class because these kids are seeking options, so the percentage of total admissions offers is still very high in the RD round.

 

ETA: Also from college board:

 

Average need based loan at W&L is 908 vs 2772 at Davidson.

Average debt at graduation is 23224 at W&L and 22000 at Davidson.

 

So neither school is completely loan free for all students, though these numbers are low enough that the "favorites" are loan-free and the total loans is definitely low compared to peer institutions.

[Gwen in VA]

As others have said, never EVER apply ED if finances are an issue. (If you know that you can afford your EFC and it's a college that fully meets demonstrated need, then finances aren't an issue so do apply in that case!)

 

Applying ED means that you will not be able to benefit from potential merit aid offers and that you cannot use other school's financial/merit aid offerings as leverage.

 

One note -- in my experience, people who apply ED are less likely to get merit aid, since merit aid is a carrot to try to persuade a student to come to the school, and a student who applied ED does not require the carrot to attend! (The valedictorian of dd1's class at W&L was an amazing student who applied ED and wasn't even invited to the scholarship competition! He is now at Harvard medical School, but he was always rather sore that he was never even considered for merit aid. My kids know of NO ONE who applied ED to W&L who was invited to the scholarship competition!)

 

Due to a $100M donation a few years ago, W&L not only provides ridiculous quantities of merit aid but also provides generous grants for summer opportunities.

 

If you want any thoughts on W&L please let me know. My kids received a top-notch education there, and one even managed the unlikely switch from LAC to top engineering graduate program (#2 in her field!) directly from college due to the education and opportunities she received there!

 

 

[Teachin'Mine]

Obviously not within the distance she wants, but others which might interest her otherwise are Emory, U of Virginia, Vanderbilt and Rice.  I don't need to know the reason for it needing to be close to home, but if it's transportation costs, she can always apply and then look at the financial aid offers.  What she saves with good financial aid may make up for needing some air travel and some of the above might be within a comfortable driving distance.  When you need a lot of financial aid, IMO it's best to apply to more colleges and wait for decisions and financial aid offers.  If you are in-state NC, then you might also consider UNCCH.