I feel like I am all over the place with math.

[AnnaE]

I am currently getting the kids into a routine of school at home - just started homeschooling.  I have been working on it for the last 6-8 weeks or so.  So far its going well.  Both DD and DS4 are reading, can do a page or 2 in ETC daily, and work on their math.  BUT, I feel like they are progressing much better with reading than with math.  Maybe cause with reading we work on it every single day, but math, well its been maybe 3 times a week.

 

So maybe math needs to be everyday.  Well not maybe, I KNOW it needs to be everyday like reading.  We are working through MUS - primer and well, i like it, but I dont LOVE it.  I have MEP materials printed out and singapore 1A/1b (but no HIG, do I need the hig?) MEP-kindergarten seems crazy easy, and MEP 1st seems crazy hard. Havent tried singapore yet.

 

Im struggling with all that there is to learn for beginning math.  counting they got, they can count to hundred.  They can count by 10s, starting to skip count by 2s and 5s (using an abacus).  They can also do basic addition and subtraction, but not quickly at all.  I dont expect it to be quickly.  but it seems they need to do equalities, and comprehension with word problems will be difficult to learn.

 

I dont know what to do with math.  Where with reading it seems that there is one path that you follow with math it seems like there is 5 or 6 different lineages that they need to learn  - which I guess is why math books spiral.  But MUS doesnt seem to spiral their content.

 

Any suggestions for making me feel more organized with math?  

[Rosie_0801]

There is rather a gap between MEP R and MEP 1, isn't there?

 

My dd seemed able to use MEP 1 from about a third of the way through CSMP 1. I flip between the two of them as she hits a wall in one or the other, but I favour CSMP. I really like teaching CSMP, which is a bonus.

[lexi]

I tried MUS in the beginning. The lack of spiral made it not work for us. My kids did not have good retention.

We tried MEP also. But Reception is very easy and I found 1 to be too much. I also found it to be a little confusing to teach. Or maybe I didn't like printing everything or trying to read on my iPad.

I ended up with Right Start. It is an investment. But the manipulative a have been very worth it. I also find it easy to teach and it has enough review that my kids have great retention. I also love how they teach concepts.

Math was a huge struggle in the beginning at our house. But we've found Right Start which works really well and math gets done daily.

I don't know what would be best at your house but both MUS and MEP didn't work for us either.

[ktgrok]

maybe try CLE Math (it starts with grade one). Or Horizon's kindergarten?

[Kiara.I]

See, and I would say that they're awfully young yet.  DOES math need to be every day?

 

Especially for your 4-year-old.  Why does math need to be everyday for a preschooler?  From what you describe, they are very advanced.  It may be that they simply don't have the maturity to move on to the harder problems that you want.  They may just need time.

 

In terms of "everything they need to know..."  Well, each of those programs will get there, but in different ways.  You don't need to do 3 different programs to have it all right now.  It's fine to wait until it comes up.

[cindydanleo]

I second CLE math :)

[AnnaE]

I was looking for secular homeschooling materials.  Does CLE discuss religion in any way?  If it doesnt, I will take a look at it.  But I just can not stomach some of the religious homeschooling materials.

 

My kids are learning to read and  can memorize the sounds of letters and blend them together.  I feel like they should be able to know that 5-3=2.  I know that there is developmental barriers, concrete thinking vs. abstract, but I am starting to think that MUS is not doing a good job of presenting then reviewing the material. Personally, I take the stance that math is a language that needs to be practiced daily to become fluent.

 

I think its interesting that another writer had the same issues with MEP and MUS.  That tends to give me some backing to my ideas that MUS doesn't spiral enough and there is a large step between MEP R and MEP 1.  I like the problem solving of MEP so maybe I will switch to it when they hit a road block.  I looked into CMSP.  I like their problems too.  These programs seem to be presenting differenty problem-types and concepts.  That makes me think that each math program doesn't include everything.  

 

I think I may invest in RightStart - thanks for the recommendation.  With an engineering dad, and a scientist for a mom, we are just not going to be happy until we find the right fit for us.

[sweetpea3829]

I agree with the poster that pointed out how young your children are.  

 

I would just like to caution...(because I did the same thing with my oldest two, and completely regret it)...they really really don't need to know, at age 4 or even 5, that 5-3=2.  

 

I was very eager with my oldest two.  One turned out to have significant learning disabilities (especially math) and our early start did not help matters.  The other is academically gifted (especially in math, go figure) and our early start nearly burnt him out.  

 

I reigned in significantly with my youngest two, waiting until they were at least 5 before even beginning any kind of formal learning.  And our beginning included learning letter names/sounds, letter formation, and basic number sense.  They picked up on those basics much more readily than even my gifted eldest boy...and neither of the youngest two are particularly accelerated.  In fact, one of them likely has LDs as well.  

 

Unless you have some eager prodigals there (and I'm not saying you don't), just remember that this is a precious age for them.  

 

Just to put it into perspective, my eldest boy...man that child was ALL about human anatomy and wanted to be a doctor...from the age of 3...4 or so.  I gave him my college anatomy book when he was 5 and he sat there and looked at the pictures and sounded out a few of the words and picked up quite a bit from it.  

 

We did a human anatomy course when he was 6...and he learned a lot.  Could tell you quite a bit.  I remember the doctor's surprised face when he told him about the olfactory nerves which helped you smell.  

 

Then his interests changed (to robots and inventions).  He's 8 1/2 now and doesn't remember much human anatomy at all.  He found the human anatomy textbook a few weeks ago and was all, "Oh mom, look at this cool book!"  I was like,  :huh:?  He had no memory of sitting with that book for hours, looking at the pictures.  

 

Anyways...I don't mean to go on and on...just to pass along a bit of advice that I wish I had listened to back when I was eager to start out with my eldest two.  Just remember...it isn't a sprint, its a marathon.  And have fun!  

[sweetpea3829]

And for what its worth, MUS is not a very rigorous math curriculum.  It is good...will give a good math education...but it is basic.  There is little exploration there.  I use it with my dyscalculic daughter because it is so incremental and slow moving.  

[Carolinagirl1]

I'm also gonna recommend CLE. My girls used Singapore in Kindergarten (at school) and we tried it when we first started homeschooling but it just didn't work for us. CLE is awesome. It is all laid out for you in the Teacher's Guide and it is so easy to teach. When it gets to about 3rd grade, it is pretty much independent, other than daily flash cards that you have to do with your child (and of course corrections). It is spiral. Math is my girls' favorite subject now, and they are very good at it! As far as it being religious...I don't think it is overly so. The story problems are more just wholesome rather than religious. There may be some religious content - I really can't think of any right now - maybe someone else can think of specific examples, but I'd hate for you to bypass such a great math curriculum for fear that it is religious. The workbooks (they call them "lightunits")

are only around $3.50 a piece so maybe you could order one and preview it or get an idea from the samples on the website.

[Flowergirl159]

Why not use the Singapore books that you already have? You don't need the HIG to go with 1A and 1B. And yes, to help put their ages in perspective, my 6.5 year old is nearing the end of 1B. So your youngest doesn't need to do that. But you could very well start your 5yr old on 1A. :) And move slowly at the childs pace.

 

ETA: We love Singapore here for the younger years. I used Earlybird A and B for their kindergarten year before moving onto 1A.

[AnnaE]

One of my problems (if it is a problem), is that my kids love doing school.  Its probably cause mom has been a teacher and tutor, uncle is a mathematician, grandpa is a teacher, grandma is a college professor.  Most conversations that occur in the household are academic.  They want structure - my oldest asked me "what else can I do today?"  Im struggling to keep her growing mind occupied!  Then what she wants to do, my DS4 wants to do.  So I am trying to find things that they both can do, can learn from and they enjoy.  I just forsee that with MUS they will start to not like it (I am starting to not like it).  And at 4 or 5, that is exactly the opposite thing that I want to do.

 

Really all I want to do it get into a routine and see progress.  Im not asking for big jumps, but know basic addition and subtraction would be fun for them to know in the next few months.  They REALLy want to play this distilled down version of Pokeman that we invented, maybe with enough practice with pokeman the math will come.

 

My problem with singapore was that 1a/1b seemed too far advanced.  So I did some research and they are at kindergarten B.  SO I will pick that up.  I think the color pages might interest them.  

 

Don't worry, I am not pushing them.  In many ways I feel like they are pushing me!

[shernandez]

Have you looked at Miquon? I use it with both my 3-year-old and my 7-year-old. I find it easy to advance for my dd and slow down for my ds. They both love the rods, too, and will often sit for 30 minutes after lesson to play with them:) I do use it to supplement CLE (which I think is great, btw), but Miquon itself is great, too.

[MeaganS]

I would look at kitchen table math. You said you expected them to be able to do 5-3 and kitchen table math, while not a curriculum, would give you a good idea of all the little concepts they need to understand to get there. I use it as my diagnostic tool when my girls are struggling and also just to check to make sure they are thoroughly understanding what they are doing. Also, I started my late 3 year old dd on miquon and it worked well. We also did Singapore essential math, which I don't love as much, but wasn't too difficult.

 

I use cle for older dd and like it (I don't find it overly religious, and agree with the pp that it is more wholesome than religious), but I see it more as a get-it-done math for my special needs dd who needs a spiral, traditional math approach. I don't plan on using it for my other kids who can be successful with something else. I wouldn't recommend it for your situation. It is definitely a good program, but fairly dry and there are many other better options for 4 year old, imo.

 

However,if you are just looking to get math facts down, you should definitely look into the cle flashcards. They are highly recommended on this board and include a pamphlet on how to use the system independent of the rest of cle.

[Joyful Journeys]

I think the HIG is worthwhile even in 1A. It sounds like you're unsure of math in general, and you need something that talks to YOU about where the curriculum is going and the goals you should be looking to achieve. The textbook gives you none of that. No schedule, no mental math, nada. Since you already have it, I'd start there. 

[AnnaE]

I think the HIG is worthwhile even in 1A. It sounds like you're unsure of math in general, and you need something that talks to YOU about where the curriculum is going and the goals you should be looking to achieve. The textbook gives you none of that. No schedule, no mental math, nada. Since you already have it, I'd start there. 

 

You are right, I need a book on developmental math.  How math progresses through the years so I can get a big picture of it.  Any recommendations for a good read?

[Kiara.I]

This isn't a book, only an article, but I found it helpful:

http://rightstartmath.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Math-and-the-Young-Child.pdf

[AnnaE]

This isn't a book, only an article, but I found it helpful:

http://rightstartmath.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Math-and-the-Young-Child.pdf

 Great read.  I see alot of what the MUS guy says in his work.

[Joyful Journeys]

You are right, I need a book on developmental math. How math progresses through the years so I can get a big picture of it. Any recommendations for a good read?

I've not read this but see it recommended often. The Core Knowledge series "What your kindergartener needs to know" and so on for the grades. My K kiddo is doing Essentials B and Miquon leading up to 1a which I agree could perhaps be better suited for an older K or 1st grader. We started with that after my DD7.5 went to K for half the year at 6. The HIG showed me how to present things conceptually before taking any books out which I love. This past year at 4 I didn't require any formal math at all for preschool.

[AnnaE]

Is the HIG the teacher lesson plan book at rainbow resource?  http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/sku/048314

 

It said in its description that it is more for classroom use.  Where can I find the home instructor's guide ?

[Joyful Journeys]

The home instructor guides are for primary math starting in 1A. You don't need the guide for the K levels as the conceptual instruction is right on the bottom of the page (at least for Essentials). Dd doesn't mind the lack of color, many exercises have her coloring and she can do math with eraseable colored pencils ;)

[Minerva]

I know this isn't what you are looking for, but let me recommend GAMES! There are so many amazing math games out there and all of the juicy bits just seep in. If you do a search for a thread that sorror started a few months back about *Relaxed Math (sorry, all of my attempts to link it are failing) you will be knocked over with awesomeness.

[Flowergirl159]

Yes I was going to suggest Miquon too. I use Miquon to supplement Singapore for the younger years and it very discovery based so may be more fun for your little ones.:) You will need the Lab Annotations as that instructs you on how to use the pages. I purchased my Miquon books from Currclick.com as a download. I live overseas so shipping costs are not worth the hardcopy. Also, I can print multiple copies for each subsequent child :)

 

I like your idea of starting with Earlybird Kindergarten, it is fun and lots of beautiful bright colours. I loved using those with my 4/5yr olds :)

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

While 5-3=2 is taught in kindergarten and could start to be committed to memory, it is very unlikely that your children will have math facts down in kindergarten, especially a four year old. Kindergarten is about counting, learning what number symbols mean, learning what addition and subtraction are, recognizing money and using lots of manipulatives to understand concepts. Maybe some skip counting, calendar, and starting to learn the fact families. If you think they need to practice more, find a good colorful workbook they can do to reinforce facts either with MUS or as a foundation to Singapore. Or if they are more hands on learners, try some math games and play with lots of manipulatives. Right Start games are well recommended.

We started with Saxon K in preschool and then switched away from Saxon to a more colorful workbook, but I will still keep that book because it has so many wonderful games and stories for manipulative play. It was perfect for preschool for us. But it was mainly acting out scenarios with teddy bear counters, playing store, learning calendar and patterns and introducing money (which dimes proved a tad advanced for my 4 yo at the time, but we were great with pennies.)

Kindergarten should be a fun approach of learning concepts, and one of your children isn't even five yet. Do lots of learning through play and start practicing some facts, but keep it fun with fact games. Play war for greater and less than, etc. If you want a workbook, you really don't need anything more fancy than something at Barnes and Noble for k.

A good solid foundation should be fine for Singapore or whatever program you decide on. But don't stress out over it so much. It's ok if they are still counting 5-2=3 with manipulatives. The conceptual understanding of addition and subtraction are first. It's not a race, just keep plodding forward a little bit at a time as they can handle.

[TheApprentice]

Just to add 1 more option for you, :001_smile:. We use McRuffy Math at the early ages. It feels fun, short amount of time spent daily, easy teacher edition to use and it prepares the student well with a solid foundation.

[kateingr]

You are right, I need a book on developmental math.  How math progresses through the years so I can get a big picture of it.  Any recommendations for a good read?

I'm reading Arithmetic for Parents (by Aharoni) right now, and I highly recommend it. It sounds like just what you're looking for.  It gives a great overview of the big picture principles of teaching elementary math, and then it goes through the big concepts one-by-one and explains how the concepts build on each other, along with some of the key cognitive hurdles that kids typically encounter.