LSU may be forced to file for academic bankruptcy

[snowbeltmom]

It is scary that this is happening to a public university.

 

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/04/lsu_academic_bankruptcy.html

 

"The Louisiana Legislature is closing out its meetings this week without having made much progress in finding more funding for universities, colleges and others. Louisiana's higher education community is facing an 82 percent funding cut if no extra state money is found.

The change would bring state funding for LSU from around $3,500 per undergraduate student to $660 per undergraduate student next year. 

"States around the country spend more than that on their community colleges," Alexander said."

[chiguirre]

I have a feeling if they threatened to cut the football team, the legislature would find the money.

 

Geaux Tigers!

 

 

(Okay, not really because I'm pretty sure the Tigers bring in cash, but this is just a pathetic situation all around. If the state legislature won't fund their higher education system, the least they can do is let them raise their tuition. Yes, that will cause a tremendous backlash. That's what you get if you have to raise tuition $3500 in a year. But it's better than causing the entire university system to have to declare "Financial Exigency".  These guys make the Texas Lege look like noble statesmen, something I never thought I'd say, ever.)

[MarkT]

I have a feeling if they threatened to cut the football team, the legislature would find the money.

 

Geaux Tigers!

 

 

(Okay, not really because I'm pretty sure the Tigers bring in cash, but this is just a pathetic situation all around. If the state legislature won't fund their higher education system, the least they can do is let them raise their tuition. Yes, that will cause a tremendous backlash. That's what you get if you have to raise tuition $3500 in a year. But it's better than causing the entire university system to have to declare "Financial Exigency".  These guys make the Texas Lege look like noble statesmen, something I never thought I'd say, ever.)

sports contributions should be "taxed" 10% to help out the academic part.

[FaithManor]

OH yikes! That's a major safety school financially for an awful lot of kids in the region. Sigh....I am quite sick of politicians claiming to care about education when their actions speak loudly to the contrary.

 

We have it here in Michigan. State support for U of MI is down to only 9% of their budget. It's not really a state school anymore, in name only.

 

So, so sad and completely unacceptable!

[katilac]

State support is down to somewhere in the neighborhood of 2% for CO School of Mines. They saw the writing on the wall a long time ago, and sought other funding. I think schools that haven't looked down the road and realized that this was going to happen, were being foolish. 

 

How is it even a state school at that point? I'm pretty annoyed at the thought of a state government proudly pointing at their 'state system' of universities and colleges, when they do nothing to support them. 

 

If it's not a research university, what other sources of funding exist? <<< That's a serious question, not a snarky one. I'm thinking of the lower price, lower prestige, non-flagship schools that provide thousands of students with an education. Even though they may shine in certain departments, big companies have no reason to partner with them, and they rarely have rich alumni. 

[FaithManor]

State support here is so poor for our tier 1 schools, that I no longer consider them "state" universities. They are private in reality.

[Lanny]

I believe this will impact the State of Louisiana very adversely, in many ways. For example, if a corporation today is contemplating moving or expanding operations, in TX or LA, when they hear about this, they will select TX.  They will want the best educational opportunities for their employees and the children of their employees, when they make a decision about where to move or expand. This is sad for the residents of LA.

[katilac]

I believe this will impact the State of Louisiana very adversely, in many ways. For example, if a corporation today is contemplating moving or expanding operations, in TX or LA, when they hear about this, they will select TX.  They will want the best educational opportunities for their employees and the children of their employees, when they make a decision about where to move or expand. This is sad for the residents of LA.

 

I think you are absolutely correct, and, sadly, it has probably already received enough press to do a lot of harm. Even if they throw a Hail Mary pass and the cuts are much less devastating than we fear, some of the damage is already done. 

[FaithManor]

While I don't put a lot of stock in the US News and World Report rankings, they are nationally known and consulted by many, many parents. Currently tied at #129, one can only speculate what this fiasco combined with national and regional perception as well as media attention will have on next year's ranking, but the best bet is that they'll drop a bunch IF they stay open.

 

When your state flagship is in this much trouble, it just simply does not bode well and the ripple effects are likely to be harsh because it casts a pall over public perception of the state. I feel terrible for families there. Louisiana was recently ranked - though again, I am not certain that the ranking system itself is sound - by Forbes as one of the top 10 worst states for education, and then made a top 10 list for crime/safety, and now this. Enough media attention of this kind can sink a state and it takes years to recovery. Ask Michigan, home of the largest municipal bankruptcy in US history on top of having for several years the three most violent cities in the nation - Detroit, Flint, and Saginaw. Climbing out of this mess has been near impossible, and frankly, we have so far to go, that I don't think my children's generation has any reason to even remain in the state. This has been an ongoing problem...we have U of MI a top 30 school, MSU nationally recognized Big AG school with tons of good programs ranking right around 75, good LAC's like Kalamazoo College, Hillsdale, and Hope, engineering geek school Michigan Tech, and we've got nothing but a brain drain happening. In state tuition, get the degree, do an internship and make some contacts, leave the state many employers pulling up roots and going with them. The legislature is very worried by the brain drain, but completely inept at or unwilling to making any of the necessary decisions to stop up the drain.

 

 

[FaithManor]

Where is the legislature putting its money instead of education?

 

Public school here is now app 50% funded locally. Locally, the farmers and retired on pension boomers have reacted by giving themselves significant tax exemptions. The resulting high housing cost for everyone else causes young families with skilled workers to leave...usually to NC or Florida which is just fine with the seniors. There is no desire to fund education. When asked who would be the Doctors when the current gen dies, the answer is always that there are enough people from other countries willing to move in, and they are rich so dont need public school anyway. I can imagine the hospice worker plan....probably will be a vanpool from the parking lot at the nearest commuter train station back to the poverty areas of nyc.

They do not have any answers...just pass the problem to the next politician. Governor Snyder hasn't done a bad job, given the disaster he inherited, but the bottom line is that the right choices aren't being made by state legislators or even local governments.

 

Property tax is the primary mode - so local - for funding and property values due to the near bankruptcy of Flint, of course the mess in Detroit, and high repossession rates in through the central and eastern part of the lower peninsula of course resulted in lower tax revenues by a huge amount. Lottery money is supposed to be diverted to education, however loopholes in the law have allowed state politicians to funnel it to pet projects so the schools only receive a small percentage despite the claims of elected officials.

[Lanny]

So LSU  wants this project to be compared with the swimming pool, etc., at Texas Tech University?  Tech is NOT  bankrupt...   This story about LSU  is in the news at this moment...  Note that the LSU project is funded by fees paid by the students during the past few years.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/13/lsu-85m-lazy-river-leisure-project-rolls-on-despite-school-budget-woes/

 

 

[snowbeltmom]

"I will put it up against any other collegiate recreational facility in the country when we are done because we will be the benchmark for the next level,†LSU Director of University Recreation Laurie Braden ...

 

"Last month, LSU President F. King Alexander announced the school was drafting the equivalent of an academic bankruptcy plan in response to the state budget crisis. The school has not begun the process of filing an exigency plan yet, but is prepping in case it is deemed necessary at the end of the next legislative term.

Such a plan would give Alexander latitude to make tough cuts, including laying off tenured professors and shutting down programs.

“Under the current circumstances and due to the continued unpredictably of our state budget, we believe this is the responsible thing to do, and we will re-evaluate the offering once the state's financial picture becomes clearer"

 

So the lazy river recreational facility will be the "benchmark" for the next level.  It is so reassuring to see that those in charge of higher education spending have their priorities straight.  :glare:

[Lanny]

"I will put it up against any other collegiate recreational facility in the country when we are done because we will be the benchmark for the next level,†LSU Director of University Recreation Laurie Braden ...

 

"Last month, LSU President F. King Alexander announced the school was drafting the equivalent of an academic bankruptcy plan in response to the state budget crisis. The school has not begun the process of filing an exigency plan yet, but is prepping in case it is deemed necessary at the end of the next legislative term.

Such a plan would give Alexander latitude to make tough cuts, including laying off tenured professors and shutting down programs.

“Under the current circumstances and due to the continued unpredictably of our state budget, we believe this is the responsible thing to do, and we will re-evaluate the offering once the state's financial picture becomes clearer"

 

So the lazy river recreational facility will be the "benchmark" for the next level.  It is so reassuring to see that those in charge of higher education spending have their priorities straight.  :glare:

 

 

As I noted, that LSU  project was apparently funded by fees the students voted to pay, for this project, several years ago, so those funds are dedicated to that project.

 

However, as I've told DD (she's a TTUISD Distance Learning student) I doubt very much that any Tech students with a high GPA have spent more than a few minutes in the pool there...

 

Tech has a new building ($50 million)  dedicated for Petroleum Engineering, and other projects that enhance their ability to provide a solid education.

 

What has happened to LSU is VERY sad...

[snowbeltmom]

As I noted, that LSU  project was apparently funded by fees the students voted to pay, for this project, several years ago, so those funds are dedicated to that project.

 

However, as I've told DD (she's a TTUISD Distance Learning student) I doubt very much that any Tech students with a high GPA have spent more than a few minutes in the pool there...

 

Tech has a new building ($50 million)  dedicated for Petroleum Engineering, and other projects that enhance their ability to provide a solid education.

 

What has happened to LSU is VERY sad...

I agree what has happened is very sad, but I wonder how much of their financial woes they created themselves by funding frivolous projects.  Moving ahead with the lazy river amusement park is irresponsible and stupid.  Where is the common sense?  Oh, I forgot, this is the government we are talking about. :banghead:

 

[FaithManor]

This is one of the sad things about strictly designated money. More reading has lead me to believe they simply can't get out of using the money for this purpose because student fees were levied for the direct use of creating this lazy river. Legally, they likely can not get out of using it for this. It's the same thing in the case of Sweet Briar. Most of their endowment was given for specific purpose - designated with restrictions - and as such cannot be spent on anything else. The law in regard to this kind of giving is VERY strict and mostly without loopholes. Too bad congress didn't have to function the same way!!!

 

So they'll get a lazy river and still might have to close their doors. I suppose maybe the government can then turn the campus into some sort of convention center, amusement park, vacation spot or something. What else will they do with it??

[snowbeltmom]

This is one of the sad things about strictly designated money. More reading has lead me to believe they simply can't get out of using the money for this purpose because student fees were levied for the direct use of creating this lazy river. Legally, they likely can not get out of using it for this.

I agree that they probably won't be able to get out of building this lazy river.  The fact that those in charge financially thought this lazy river was a good idea to begin with is the reason college costs are out of control.

 

 

[FaithManor]

I agree that they probably won't be able to get out of building this lazy river.  The fact that those in charge financially thought this lazy river was a good idea to begin with is the reason college costs are out of control.

Yep! I mean, I have to wonder what the student fees were that got tacked onto their tuition bills for this mess.

 

When I was in college, the only fees we had were lab fees for science classes which covered consumable materials. That was it. The list of fees now at the average institution is just crazy.

[snowbeltmom]

Yep! I mean, I have to wonder what the student fees were that got tacked onto their tuition bills for this mess.

 

When I was in college, the only fees we had were lab fees for science classes which covered consumable materials. That was it. The list of fees now at the average institution is just crazy.

I also wonder how the students actually voted for these fees.  Back in the Dark Ages, I certainly never had the opportunity to vote whether or not I wanted to pay for additional fees.

 

Is it common now for the student body to vote for what additional fees they will pay?

 

ETA:  I am having a hard time believing a student would agree to pay for a lazy river knowing that they would have graduated before the thing was even built. 

ETA:  I am having a hard time believing a student would agree to pay for a lazy river knowing that they would have graduated before the thing was even built. 

 

Typically, if these projects are paid out of segregated fees, the students don't pay until construction is finished, so those who vote neither get to use the facilities nor have to pay for it.

[Michelle_NC]

http://www.news-record.com/news/students-to-protest-fee-for-uncg-recreation-center/article_957c5824-356f-52ad-98d1-acc9f8c0afe4.html

 

(From 2013): UNCG students pay $707 a year to repay construction costs for six existing facilities and one planned building.

That’s the highest debt service in the UNC system.

The bulk of this debt service fee — $435 a year — goes toward a new student recreation center that UNCG plans to build on West Lee Street on the edge of the Glenwood neighborhood. The $91 million facility, more than twice the size of the current rec center, is scheduled to open in fall 2016.

 

[katilac]

 Is it common now for the student body to vote for what additional fees they will pay?

 

 

It's pretty common, yes. 

 

Some fees can be imposed without student agreement or vote, but sometimes students will come up with their own ideas and put it forward for discussion and vote. I don't think these votes are binding, but simply recommendations to the administration. 

 

When we visited UAH, the tour guide made a point of saying that the new student union was a student idea, funded by fees voted on by the students. He didn't say anything further, so I don't know how the voting/paying worked. 

 

In the LSU situation, the fees began before construction started, so the students who voted on it did pay. If they graduate, they will be able to use the facilities free for however many semesters they paid the increased fee. 

[Lanny]

When the plan for this began, probably nobody imagined that the Legislature of Louisiana would impose a tremendous cut on education funding.  Now, the survival of LSU is questionable. The reputation of LSU has been damaged severely, by this publicity and if the funding cuts do take place, the academic level of LSU will drop severely, IMHO.

[chiguirre]

When the plan for this began, probably nobody imagined that the Legislature of Louisiana would impose a tremendous cut on education funding. Now, the survival of LSU is questionable. The reputation of LSU has been damaged severely, by this publicity and if the funding cuts do take place, the academic level of LSU will drop severely, IMHO.

Cutting a half a billion dollars from LSU's budget from one year to another is insane. You can fault them for their priorities, but no administration could sustain that level of cuts in funding without tanking. It's simply not possible. I just hope that will serve as a warning before any other states decide to defund their public universities. I sure hope the eyes of Texas are upon this fiasco.

[Lanny]

Cutting a half a billion dollars from LSU's budget from one year to another is insane. You can fault them for their priorities, but no administration could sustain that level of cuts in funding without tanking. It's simply not possible. I just hope that will serve as a warning before any other states decide to defund their public universities. I sure hope the eyes of Texas are upon this fiasco.

 

 

Amen...   Texas increased the budget for education, for the next 2 years, and I hope they can continue to do that, in the future, despite the decline in the price of petroleum.   I suspect the budget in LA is more dependent upon petroleum.  If not, their legislators are bums...  LA will suffer for this, for many years in the future.

[Teachin'Mine]

Here's an update on possible "solutions".    http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/02/bobby_jindal_weighs_economic_i.html

 

Seems like a game of raising fees, cancelling tax credits, raising cigarette taxes, and not raising other taxes, to bring the amount of the education gap down.  Because they don't have state funds to put toward education, they'll be missing out on federal matching funds.  What a mess.  All this so someone doesn't upset others with a tax increase.   Healthcare is on the line too.  Would love to see the rest of the budget ...

 

Oh and love the part of raising university fees, but providing a tax credit to cover this and paying for the tax credit with higher taxes from cigarette sales.  

[Frances]

Here's an update on possible "solutions".    http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/02/bobby_jindal_weighs_economic_i.html

 

Seems like a game of raising fees, cancelling tax credits, raising cigarette taxes, and not raising other taxes, to bring the amount of the education gap down.  Because they don't have state funds to put toward education, they'll be missing out on federal matching funds.  What a mess.  All this so someone doesn't upset others with a tax increase.   Healthcare is on the line too.  Would love to see the rest of the budget ...

 

Oh and love the part of raising university fees, but providing a tax credit to cover this and paying for the tax credit with higher taxes from cigarette sales.  

 

And the governor doesn't want to cut any of the lucrative film tax credits for shows like "Duck Dynasty" in order to provide more funding for higher education. He must be afraid filming for the show will move to California or Canada if the production company doesn't get hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax credits per episode. He must think it's just a coincidence that filming for the show takes place in the state where the family actually lives and works.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/-duck-dynasty-keeps-tax-break-as-jindal-cuts-louisiana-colleges

[Lanny]

And the governor doesn't want to cut any of the lucrative film tax credits for shows like "Duck Dynasty" in order to provide more funding for higher education. He must be afraid filming for the show will move to California or Canada if the production company doesn't get hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax credits per episode. He must think it's just a coincidence that filming for the show takes place in the state where the family actually lives and works.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-04/-duck-dynasty-keeps-tax-break-as-jindal-cuts-louisiana-colleges

 

 

 

I believe most states have credits and other perks,  to lure movie and TV production to their states. It is a very lucrative business.  Georgia is the Hollywood of the South.  I've seen an "Extra" on TV about that, several times, when the viewers in the states are shown commercials.

 

In this case, probably they would film that show in LA with or without credits, but that's an unknown.

 

IMHO, the reputation of Gov. Jindal will also be badly  tarnished by the severe drop in funding to LSU.

[Frances]

I believe most states have credits and other perks, to lure movie and TV production to their states. It is a very lucrative business. Georgia is the Hollywood of the South. I've seen an "Extra" on TV about that, several times, when the viewers in the states are shown commercials.

 

In this case, probably they would film that show in LA with or without credits, but that's an unknown.

 

IMHO, the reputation of Gov. Jindal will also be badly tarnished by the severe drop in funding to LSU.

While it's true that many states have film credits, they usually have a very poor ROI, unless you are looking at industry sponsored studies. In general, subsidizing one industry over another does not make much sense from an economic perspective and is inheritantly unfair. But if you're going to do, it makes a lot more sense to not choose something as portable as film and TV production, because the need for credits in order to lure and keep the companies will never end and often a large percentage of wages and profits go out of state.

 

In the case of Duck Dynasty, it might be easy to do pre- and post-production work out of state and perhaps they already do. But it would be quite a bit harder to film out of state when it is a reality show based on an extended family that lives and owns a successful business in the state.

 

Anyway, I don't want to derail the conversation. The situation is Louisiana is very sad and hopefully the governor and legislature will step up and do something before it is too late.

[Space station]

This is all very scary, and we are facing it to a slightly lesser extent in Wisconsin.  Our Governor Walker has proposed $2.6 Billion in cuts to our public education system, including $300 Million in cuts to our university system, and 30% cuts in funding to technical colleges.  All this so that he can claim a reduction in property taxes for his presidential run (that tax cut would amount to about $10 for us).  But at least he also proposed spending $220 Million on a new NBA stadium.   :huh:

 

Our Legislature is working to restore some of the K-12 funding in the budget, but it does not look like the funding is going to be coming back for the colleges and universities.  Until this year I had assumed that my kids would go to a UW school, several of which have very good reputations.  Now I think they should be looking elsewhere, because I expect a big decline in the quality of education in this state as good professors head to other states.  Many of my good friends are among those fleeing this system before it goes completely under, and I expect that the same thing is happening in LA.  No matter how many tax breaks Walker gives to businesses to come to WI, they won't come here if they see that we don't have a well-trained work force because he cut tech college funding.  We fled MI 10 years ago; I hope we don't have to flee WI.  MN is looking like the promised land.

[FaithManor]

Space Station, that is just so wrong! GAH, I am so tired of the political, anti-education climate in this nation and particularly, in the Midwest/Great Lakes region.

 

Sad to say, U of WI at Madison and Milwaukee (both do research on the Great Lakes) were on our rising senior's short list. But I have to wonder if possibly we should reconsider. They are reasonably priced due to the Midwest Exchange that Wisconsin and Michigan observe, but if tuition take s huge hike due to the funding cuts, they might not be so attractive. (The Milwaukee campus has four research boats on Lake Michigan so was of keen interest to ds.)

 

I agree, at this point, MN is looking like Eden for Michiganders and Wisconsinites.

[Space station]

Space Station, that is just so wrong! GAH, I am so tired of the political, anti-education climate in this nation and particularly, in the Midwest/Great Lakes region.

 

Sad to say, U of WI at Madison and Milwaukee (both do research on the Great Lakes) were on our rising senior's short list. But I have to wonder if possibly we should reconsider. They are reasonably priced due to the Midwest Exchange that Wisconsin and Michigan observe, but if tuition take s huge hike due to the funding cuts, they might not be so attractive. (The Milwaukee campus has four research boats on Lake Michigan so was of keen interest to ds.)

 

I agree, at this point, MN is looking like Eden for Michiganders and Wisconsinites.

 

Those are the same 2 schools my daughter was aiming for.  It is so frustrating not to know what the future holds for funding.  I'm sure as the flagship UW-Madison will remain fairly strong, but the other 25 campuses will struggle even more.  Here is what the first round of $150 M cuts look like for next year by campus, with another $150 M proposed for the following year. http://tinyurl.com/ktjtdwwUnfortunately, our hometown campus in Eau Claire is near the top facing 18% cuts.  My daughter thinks she wants to study astro-physics, and what is the first program our local campus announced would be cut?  The planetarium and astronomy program.  Besides that, they will be removing discounts for DE classes for high schoolers, so we will be faced with paying full credit price for any DE classes she takes.  The whole thing is so backwards and short-sighted.

[Teachin'Mine]

Those are the same 2 schools my daughter was aiming for.  It is so frustrating not to know what the future holds for funding.  I'm sure as the flagship UW-Madison will remain fairly strong, but the other 25 campuses will struggle even more.  Here is what the first round of $150 M cuts look like for next year by campus, with another $150 M proposed for the following year. http://tinyurl.com/ktjtdwwUnfortunately, our hometown campus in Eau Claire is near the top facing 18% cuts.  My daughter thinks she wants to study astro-physics, and what is the first program our local campus announced would be cut?  The planetarium and astronomy program.  Besides that, they will be removing discounts for DE classes for high schoolers, so we will be faced with paying full credit price for any DE classes she takes.  The whole thing is so backwards and short-sighted.

 

Exactly.

[FaithManor]

Those are the same 2 schools my daughter was aiming for.  It is so frustrating not to know what the future holds for funding.  I'm sure as the flagship UW-Madison will remain fairly strong, but the other 25 campuses will struggle even more.  Here is what the first round of $150 M cuts look like for next year by campus, with another $150 M proposed for the following year. http://tinyurl.com/ktjtdwwUnfortunately, our hometown campus in Eau Claire is near the top facing 18% cuts.  My daughter thinks she wants to study astro-physics, and what is the first program our local campus announced would be cut?  The planetarium and astronomy program.  Besides that, they will be removing discounts for DE classes for high schoolers, so we will be faced with paying full credit price for any DE classes she takes.  The whole thing is so backwards and short-sighted.

I feel like politicians are making supreme efforts to take America back to the Stone Age.

[swimmermom3]

I feel like politicians are making supreme efforts to take America back to the Stone Age.

 

This thread is disturbing on so many levels. That a governor would take down an entire state educational system to further his own political agenda is mind-blowing. That governors like Jindal, Walker, and Christie would flagrantly go against the wishes of the public that elected them, again, in order to serve their own political agenda, is , oh I don't know, beyond irritating?

 

While trying to learn more about Jindal, I came across this article: A Creationist Campaign.  If I have read this correctly, the biology major from one of the best universities in the country, has opened the door to creationism being taught in science classes in Louisiana? However, his own kids still get only evolution-based biology at their school? Of all the flipping hypocrisy!

 

Anything goes in the name of even the merest possibility of getting elected president? Just wow!

 

[cathmom]

I wanted to do my PhD at UW-Madison, but they ran out of funding for me. Later, another grad student told me that I should be grateful that I didn't go there, as all of his friends who had gone there were getting their funding cut left and right and it was a horrible atmosphere.