Can we talk Michael Pollan?

[Jane in NC]

Huh, I have gotten Cooks Country for years and I think many of the recipes are pretty simple. 

 

I have some of Bitman's books.  I have found his How to Cook Everything unreliable with some stuff (baked goods is a big one).  Although I do like his approach generally. 

 

I do not subscribe to Cooks Country.  From the recent Cooks Illustrated is a recipe for "Foolproof NY Cheesecake" that  I would call fussy.  Crust, fine.  Making the filling, fine.  Allow air bubbles to rise to the top then "gently draw the tines of fork" to pop the bubbles, followed by baking in a slow oven for three hours, followed by baking at 500 degrees.  The instructions are clear but I am just not that interested in watching a cheese cake develop perfection.

 

In the same issue is a recipe for Drunken Beans.  Lynne Rosetto Kaspar has a straight forward recipe.  Maybe I am just not inclined to follow the Cooks Illustrated instructions of baking them in the oven and then finishing them on the stove. 

 

Perhaps I am more of a zen cook and you are more scientific?

 

[mamaraby]

He seems ok to me. More sane than a lot of other crap I've read.

 

I would not be able to do well on a vegetarian diet. I have some blood sugar issues. I do best controlling carbs. That would be pretty difficult as a vegetarian and impossible as a vegan. Plus frankly, while I don't think it's unhealthy, I don't think eating meat is unhealthy either.

 

I believe real food is best, but the configuration of ideal probably varies from person to person.

And I don't think anyone who disagrees with Pollan is telling you to be a vegan. Don't want to be a vegan? Don't. Seriously.

 

I do think, though, that a meat heavy diet, particularly in American quantities/percentage of total calories is going to be darned near impossible to feed an entire world with without also turning huge swaths of land into grazing. Which also ignores the inefficiencies in an animal based system of transforming solar energy (obtained from plants) into calories humans can use. Even if we're talking nose to tail eating, not every single calorie consumed by a cow gets turned into useable calories for a human. A substantial portion of those calories go to a cow's BMR needs.

 

Pollan's other limitation is the whole buy local/food miles equation which only looks at distance traveled to terminal markets and ignores the other part of carbon footprint related consumption like how far a person drives to buy their food, how they cook their food, and how much food they waste.

 

Feminist issues aside, Pollan's ideal necessitates a certain amount of leisure time and a certain amount of disposable income that's going to exclude a lot of people here in the US, let alone elsewhere in the world. IMO, he's focusing on small things that won't go nearly far enough to feed an increasing world population without also causing additional damage to the environment.

[hornblower]

hey, this is vaguely à propos
 

Why the man who brought us the glycemic index wants us to go vegan

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I do not subscribe to Cooks Country.  From the recent Cooks Illustrated is a recipe for "Foolproof NY Cheesecake" that  I would call fussy.  Crust, fine.  Making the filling, fine.  Allow air bubbles to rise to the top then "gently draw the tines of fork" to pop the bubbles, followed by baking in a slow oven for three hours, followed by baking at 500 degrees.  The instructions are clear but I am just not that interested in watching a cheese cake develop perfection.

 

In the same issue is a recipe for Drunken Beans.  Lynne Rosetto Kaspar has a straight forward recipe.  Maybe I am just not inclined to follow the Cooks Illustrated instructions of baking them in the oven and then finishing them on the stove. 

 

Perhaps I am more of a zen cook and you are more scientific?

 

LOL..I can see that. 

 

Cook's Illustrated is more of a technique/instructional type magazine.  I've already had enough of that.

 

I don't follow most recipe instructions.  I look at the ingredients.  I might read through the instructions, but I know how most of it works.  Sometimes I experiment and try different ways with the technique and discover it made no difference in the end. 

 

I particularly like his mags though because they aren't filled with advertisements.  He also does not tend to use ridiculous ingredients that are impossible to find.  I was subscribing to Fine Cooking for awhile.  I couldn't always find the ingredients or the combinations were just so gosh darn cloying to me. 

 

[Joyofsixreboot]

Not our grandparents (I am Generation X) but great- or even great-great-grandparents had kitchen gardens! My grandmother cooked from a can. SAHM, raised 7 kids, all on canned vegetables and bland meat from the supermarket and pasta. Instant rice to her was like, amen and hallelujah. My other grandma did not garden but she cooked.

It's my age showing :) or maybe that garden thing held on longer here in farm country.

[SparklyUnicorn]

And I don't think anyone who disagrees with Pollan is telling you to be a vegan. Don't want to be a vegan? Don't. Seriously.

 

I do think, though, that a meat heavy diet, particularly in American quantities/percentage of total calories is going to be darned near impossible to feed an entire world with without also turning huge swaths of land into grazing. Which also ignores the inefficiencies in an animal based system of transforming solar energy (obtained from plants) into calories humans can use. Even if we're talking nose to tail eating, not every single calorie consumed by a cow gets turned into useable calories for a human. A substantial portion of those calories go to a cow's BMR needs.

 

Pollan's other limitation is the whole buy local/food miles equation which only looks at distance traveled to terminal markets and ignores the other part of carbon footprint related consumption like how far a person drives to buy their food, how they cook their food, and how much food they waste.

 

Feminist issues aside, Pollan's ideal necessitates a certain amount of leisure time and a certain amount of disposable income that's going to exclude a lot of people here in the US, let alone elsewhere in the world. IMO, he's focusing on small things that won't go nearly far enough to feed an increasing world population without also causing additional damage to the environment.

 

No I was not really referring to what he has said.  I'm just saying that a lot of people say that vegan and vegetarian is the healthiest and I disagree.  At least he does not say that so I think his advice is more sane in that realm.

 

Along those lines, I have no doubt the reason the US govt. recommends what it recommends is based in large part on the economy, availability, etc.  The school lunch program, funded by the govt. talks about serving healthier food and their idea of "healthier" is Big G cereals and fat free milk.  What?!  How is this healthier?  But it's economical, kids will generally eat it, it require nearly no prep, and requires little storage. 

 

And the eat local thing, that's a damn joke.  In many parts of this country there is very little local especially during certain times of the year.  There is no local produce in the winter where I live and very little in the summer.  There is local dairy and meat, but I'd still have to travel far for "local".  I don't bother.  How am I saving anything or anyone by driving three hours for that?  I'm not. 

 

Yeah it's more complex than just people aren't eating what they should.  So many factors and reasons. 

[LibraryLover]

Hmm....not sure how to read this. I'm definitely not in Peoria and consider myself a fairly sophisticated listener and eater. :) And although they are both New Yorkers in a way, I'm pretty sure Reichl actually spent a lot of time in California/Berkeley and Pollan lives in northern California, I believe. I get the idea though, it's similar culturally. 

 

 

You're right, Unclear.  I edited.  What I meant was "I'm thinking about my oldest child who is a New Yorker (for several years now.) He can be so annoying". 

[FaithManor]

No I was not really referring to what he has said.  I'm just saying that a lot of people say that vegan and vegetarian is the healthiest and I disagree.  At least he does not say that so I think his advice is more sane in that realm.

 

Along those lines, I have no doubt the reason the US govt. recommends what it recommends is based in large part on the economy, availability, etc.  The school lunch program, funded by the govt. talks about serving healthier food and their idea of "healthier" is Big G cereals and fat free milk.  What?!  How is this healthier?  But it's economical, kids will generally eat it, it require nearly no prep, and requires little storage. 

 

And the eat local thing, that's a damn joke.  In many parts of this country there is very little local especially during certain times of the year.  There is no local produce in the winter where I live and very little in the summer.  There is local dairy and meat, but I'd still have to travel far for "local".  I don't bother.  How am I saving anything or anyone by driving three hours for that?  I'm not. 

 

Yeah it's more complex than just people aren't eating what they should.  So many factors and reasons. 

Sparkly, I understand what you are saying. But, I have to say that if our local school district served cheerios, I'd consider that a huge improvement over the daily pop tart. Yes, pop tart. And sometimes they let the kids have pop if they don't want to drink the fat free milk.

 

Staggers the imagination.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Sparkly, I understand what you are saying. But, I have to say that if our local school district served cheerios, I'd consider that a huge improvement over the daily pop tart. Yes, pop tart. And sometimes they let the kids have pop if they don't want to drink the fat free milk.

 

Staggers the imagination.

 

Nooo they do not serve Cheerios.  They serve Lucky Charms, Cocoa Puffs, etc.  They serve Pop Tarts too.  And they have something called a healthy donut.

[FaithManor]

Nooo they do not serve Cheerios.  They serve Lucky Charms, Cocoa Puffs, etc.  They serve Pop Tarts too.  And they have something called a healthy donut.

:svengo:

 

And they wonder why these kids cannot concentrate!

 

GAH!

 

Todays menu at the local elementary school - pop tarts and juice cocktail for breakfast, corn dogs, chips, and cookies for lunch. I think they are still offering fat free milk.

 

It's like that every day.

 

I weep.

[SparklyUnicorn]

:svengo:

 

And they wonder why these kids cannot concentrate!

 

GAH!

 

Todays menu at the local elementary school - pop tarts and juice cocktail for breakfast, corn dogs, chips, and cookies for lunch. I think they are still offering fat free milk.

 

It's like that every day.

 

I weep.

 

Today is grab and go bagel pack (no clue what that is exactly).  Lunch is meat balls with tomato sauce, bread, pineapple, and baked beans.  Not super terrible, but kind of an odd combination.  LOL 

 

The thing that gets me with the cereal is they only give them those single serve tiny boxes.  And fat free milk.  I'd be starved in 10 minutes.  I can't eat cereal though.  I do like it, but man it does not like me. 

 

 

[Tsuga]

It's my age showing :) or maybe that garden thing held on longer here in farm country.

 

Probably held on longer there in farm country. My people are in the arts and metiers, move around a lot, so haven't been on the land in a long time though as I said my mom did have a kitchen garden as did I. 

[SarahW]

Not our grandparents (I am Generation X) but great- or even great-great-grandparents had kitchen gardens! My grandmother cooked from a can. SAHM, raised 7 kids, all on canned vegetables and bland meat from the supermarket and pasta. Instant rice to her was like, amen and hallelujah. My other grandma did not garden but she cooked.

 

 

Lol, yeah, Pollan shows his age with his "eat like your grandmother" advice.

 

My grandmother's daily breakfast consisted of a cup of Lipton tea with a good spoonful of sugar and some milk, with a side of white toast primed with margarine and covered in Jif peanut butter (and not the natural kind).

 

I thought that was an "Irish breakfast" for a long time. :lol:  

 

 

 

Food culture is very fragile. That's a very serious issue. I think Pollan approaches that topic with all the grace of an angry bull. But he does have a point. It's just that the point has mostly sailed away already....

[Halftime Hope]

Lol, yeah, Pollan shows his age with his "eat like your grandmother" advice.

 

My grandmother's daily breakfast consisted of a cup of Lipton tea with a good spoonful of sugar and some milk, with a side of white toast primed with margarine and covered in Jif peanut butter (and not the natural kind).

 

I thought that was an "Irish breakfast" for a long time. :lol:  

 

 

 

Food culture is very fragile. That's a very serious issue. I think Pollan approaches that topic with all the grace of an angry bull. But he does have a point. It's just that the point has mostly sailed away already....

 

MP's "grandmother" food rule is actually the following, "Don't eat anything your great grandmother wouldn't recognize as food."  For most people, that's quite a bit different than the above.  

[SarahW]

MP's "grandmother" food rule is actually the following, "Don't eat anything your great grandmother wouldn't recognize as food."  For most people, that's quite a bit different than the above.  

 

 

He originally said grandmother.

 

My great-grandmother thought that was food too.

 

Discriminated immigrants trying desperately to fit into America easily drop their traditional food culture and adopt new crap.

 

And in the 50's that breakfast was cutting-edge luxury.

[redsquirrel]

I would hope my grandmother and great grandmother would recognize that as food. What they would not recognize would be  the luna protein bar I often eat for breakfast. I am not sure what more than half of the stuff in those bars is, lol.

[Cottonwood]

He is just urging people to think of learned habits and their health because one does have something to do with the other.  And it's not hard to start a small garden, even if it seems so unlikely.  I have gardening sites updating me on Facebook where people are showing pics of very small places with tons of food growing with very little time and effort.  I totally envy them!  He makes sense to me in a lot of ways.  I feel pretty lucky that I grew up in a family that grew a ton of our food, raised hogs and chickens to eat and ate carefully.  I also garden and work at a farm in exchange for local goodies.   We make living this way a priority.  It has NOT always been this way.  OMG when I used to coupon, I stockpiled so much junk and we ate it and felt horrible but I didn't know why.  For YEARS.  

 

Some posts in this thread are a great example of why he says the things he says... b/c so many of us are so far removed from where the food is really coming from.  Once you're far removed, it's hard to see why it's important to reconnect for some.  And the reality is that most of our circumstances will not allow us to change that.  Sometimes it results in packaged, dead food in regularity.  And that is bad for us if it's constant.  He is saying, with some knowledge and desire to improve things, even just a LITTLE bit, changes can happen.   I don't agree with everything and certainly cannot do everything he says is important (not do I always agree) but it's thought provoking.  Our health is very important.  Ingredients are very important. How important?  We all get to decide for ourselves.  But I think he is one of MANY voices out there right now that is trying to get us to stop and think about what we put in our mouths.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would hope my grandmother and great grandmother would recognize that as food. What they would not recognize would be  the luna protein bar I often eat for breakfast. I am not sure what more than half of the stuff in those bars is, lol.

 

One of my grandmother's best desserts involved packs of instant pudding, canned peaches, ready made graham cracker crusts, and cream cheese.

 

So ya know...when people say stuff like would one's grandmother recognize this or that I kinda have to laugh.  My grandmother wouldn't recognize fresh herbs, asparagus, and tons of other stuff.

[fraidycat]

Not our grandparents (I am Generation X) but great- or even great-great-grandparents had kitchen gardens! My grandmother cooked from a can. SAHM, raised 7 kids, all on canned vegetables and bland meat from the supermarket and pasta. Instant rice to her was like, amen and hallelujah. My other grandma did not garden but she cooked.

My Grandma cooked from a can, too. But first, she had to do the canning.