Tell me about Teaching Textbooks

[Mom28kds]

Is it behind other math curriculum? My DS struggles with focus/attention issues and was thinking that this would help him stay focused and that he might learn better with there being an actual lecture. I had to put him in ps this year and planning on pulling him back out next year. In the past I've used CLE which he struggled with because he said it was so long and I think the black and white pages didn't help his attention. I've also used ABEKA. Just wondering how TT rates and if people are happy with the quality of Math.

[OneStepAtATime]

Some kids do great with this program.  Honestly, it can be a huge gift for certain kids.  

 

Others SEEM to do great with this program but long term retention is poor and conceptual understanding may be weak for some. This program can be easy to not necessarily cheat but certainly work through in a way that does not truly reflect understanding even if the grades show all A's.

 

 Personally, if you think this might work, then go ahead and try it.  It may be a great fit!  But I would definitely have him do some problems on paper, not just through the computer, and possibly supplement with games/practical application/alternate approaches.  You might look at something like Beast Academy or Life of Fred or something to add to it.  Have you looked at Soror's relaxed math thread?  Maybe there would be something there that you could add?  Like have Fun Friday or something so you are able to approach math a little differently one day a week and check his overall progress through other sources at the same time.

[Mom28kds]

Some kids do great with this program.  Honestly, it can be a huge gift for certain kids.  

 

Others SEEM to do great with this program but long term retention is poor and conceptual understanding may be weak for some. This program can be easy to not necessarily cheat but certainly work through in a way that does not truly reflect understanding even if the grades show all A's.

 

 Personally, if you think this might work, then go ahead and try it.  It may be a great fit!  But I would definitely have him do some problems on paper, not just through the computer, and possibly supplement with games/practical application/alternate approaches.  You might look at something like Beast Academy or Life of Fred or something to add to it.  Have you looked at Soror's relaxed math thread?  Maybe there would be something there that you could add?  Like have Fun Friday or something so you are able to approach math a little differently one day a week and check his overall progress through other sources at the same time.

No, I haven't looked into those. I will, thanks! Great idea for Friday fun :) Do you have the link to the thread?

[ktgrok]

I adore it. It may not be the mostest bestest math ever, but it's the math that gets done, and that works for my son. And for poor attention it is PERFECT. It asks questions thoughout the lecture that they have to respond to, so they can't just daydream the whole way through. Also, little characters make noise if you ignore it too long. 

[blondeviolin]

My 8yo did a couple of years of SM and a bit of BA before moving to TT 4. To be honest, 4 was way too easy after BA and she finished it within four months.

 

TT is behind, IMO, but it has been great for my oldest to build confidence. She thrives on the procedural emphasis. We do turn around and review with a more conceptual program (BA or MM). Once she can work through the math itself, the concepts are less overwhelming for her.

[OneStepAtATime]

No, I haven't looked into those. I will, thanks! Great idea for Friday fun :) Do you have the link to the thread?

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/499692-looking-to-do-some-relaxed-math-here-want-to-share-ideas/

 

Lots of great resources on that thread....  :)

[MomatHWTK]

My experience:

 

 TT explains things slowly and is good for my non-mathy student.  For my mathy, impatient, short attention span students CTC Math is a better fit. 

 

I have one student in particular who simply cannot stand the extra verbage in most instructional videos and he loves that he can fast forward CTC.  :001_rolleyes:   I may be incorrect but I think in TT you have to watch the lesson in its entirety.  (i.e. If manipulatives are being placed, you sit there and watch them being placed.)

 

If possible, I would try to view sample lessons from the various curricula and see which one fits your child's aptitude and input speed. 

[ktgrok]

My experience:

 

 TT explains things slowly and is good for my non-mathy student.  For my mathy, impatient, short attention span students CTC Math is a better fit. 

 

I have one student in particular who simply cannot stand the extra verbage in most instructional videos and he loves that he can fast forward CTC.  :001_rolleyes:   I may be incorrect but I think in TT you have to watch the lesson in its entirety.  (i.e. If manipulatives are being placed, you sit there and watch them being placed.)

 

If possible, I would try to view sample lessons from the various curricula and see which one fits your child's aptitude and input speed. 

 

You can skip the instructional video, if you already understand the topic. My son often does, moving right to the sample problems before going on to the actual assignment. 

 

What does CTC stand for?

[CatholicSteph]

I really wanted it to work. We used MCP for K, singapore for first, math mammoth for second, and tried TT for third. Yes we are curriculum hoppers when it comes to math. My DD hates math and I just kept thinking the right program would solve that. TT helped at first but WOW was it behind MM. I mean in the beginning of third there were single digit additions. Even today on lessons in the 70's they're asking word problems like "billy has 69¢ and gave Joan a dime. What does he have now?" She just got so darn bored with it that she begged to go back to MM. We skipped some but there would be just enough new material that we couldn't skip a whole lesson. I think she needs somewhat of a spiral approach but TT is a lot of review, moves too slowly, and is at least a half grade behind other programs.

[blondeviolin]

I really wanted it to work. We used MCP for K, singapore for first, math mammoth for second, and tried TT for third. Yes we are curriculum hoppers when it comes to math. My DD hates math and I just kept thinking the right program would solve that. TT helped at first but WOW was it behind MM. I mean in the beginning of third there were single digit additions. Even today on lessons in the 70's they're asking word problems like "billy has 69¢ and gave Joan a dime. What does he have now?" She just got so darn bored with it that she begged to go back to MM. We skipped some but there would be just enough new material that we couldn't skip a whole lesson. I think she needs somewhat of a spiral approach but TT is a lot of review, moves too slowly, and is at least a half grade behind other programs.

This is exactly why I required my third grader to run through it a grade ahead. Nearly nothing was new, but the double pace was worth it. IMO, it's definitely behind.

[Haiku]

Ime, TT is easier than other math programs. I don't think this is necessarily a problem. Some kids do not thrive with hard math programs. TT would not be a good fit for my dd, but it is excellent for my son. I gave up on math snobbery a long time ago and chose the programs that work for my kids. My son went from hating math and feeling like a dunce to liking math and seeing himself as capable. If he never goes into a math-heavy career, so be it.

[LLMom]

I think it is a great program for moms who need something to lighten the load, for math-resistant kids, those that have a hard time paying attention or like computers, etc.  I do think it is behind so use the placement tests.  My ds, now a senior in private school, used TT for many years including algebra.  He was able to pass and receive credit for high school for algebra 1 so TT helped him enough. 

[Mom28kds]

Thanks so much for the replies. Definitely something to think about. I don't want him to go backwards but I do need something that will get done and where he can learn. What does CTC stand for?

[shinyhappypeople]

The content in TT does  not match the grade level label at all.  The 3rd grade level covers 1st and 2nd grade topics.  This is kind of nice for children who have needed extra time to pick up math skills.  The number on the book may match their grade, even though the content covers stuff usually taught in earlier grades.

 

For proper placement take the placement test.

 

TT is exceptionally good at building math confidence.  This is no small thing!  I used the 3rd and 4th grade levels with my kids.  Based on those two levels (IOW, higher levels might differ) It's approach is to teach the procedure without going in depth into the concept behind it.  I think this approach actually works fine for mathy kids who can intuit the math behind the procedure, but may not be as useful for kids who struggle with math in general.  Yes, I know this goes against what most people say. :)  But if you already struggle with math, a brief "do this, then this, then carry the one" explanation with no understanding of the math concepts at play can cause problems down the road.  It's just something to be aware of.

 

My 11 yo DD used 2 years of TT (levels 3&4) and got most of the questions correct on the quizzes but struggled with using the math "out of context" (outside of a lesson).  The lessons are predictable and it's easy to figure out, for example, that since we recently covered subtraction with regrouping, all the subtraction problems I see will require regrouping.... without having to think about when to regroup and when not to regroup.  My DD ran into this problem. :(  

 

Anyway, I'm glad we used TT because it helped build her confidence and she did learn some math.  However, at her request, we moved to Math Mammoth (the 3rd grade topic  books) and it's a better fit for her.  Her math understanding has increased exponentially. 

If you use TT, I strongly recommend periodically having your child work on non-TT math problems to make sure they're really understanding what they're doing and not just going through on auto-pilot.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Thanks so much for the replies. Definitely something to think about. I don't want him to go backwards but I do need something that will get done and where he can learn. What does CTC stand for?

Whatever you shift to, give a placement test if there is one.  There is one with TT.  Math programs are very different.  It is hard to know where a child will fit well until you give a placement test.  The TT test is easy to administer.  Even if you aren't going to use it, giving that placement would help you see where he would start if he did.  Might help you with your decision.

 

What about something like CLE, where the light units (work books) are written to the student?  It also has a placement test.  But if he won't do well with a printed program, then TT might work anyway.  It has been very helpful for many.  

[kiana]

The content in TT does  not match the grade level label at all.  The 3rd grade level covers 1st and 2nd grade topics.  This is kind of nice for children who have needed extra time to pick up math skills.  The number on the book may match their grade, even though the content covers stuff usually taught in earlier grades.

 

For proper placement take the placement test.

 

+1. 

 

TT has you ready for algebra in 9th instead of 8th if used at grade level. It is "behind" if you are trying for algebra in 8th or earlier. That is not necessarily a bad thing -- I really don't like the push to have everyone do algebra in 8th or earlier. 

[Mom28kds]

Whatever you shift to, give a placement test if there is one.  There is one with TT.  Math programs are very different.  It is hard to know where a child will fit well until you give a placement test.  The TT test is easy to administer.  Even if you aren't going to use it, giving that placement would help you see where he would start if he did.  Might help you with your decision.

 

What about something like CLE, where the light units (work books) are written to the student?  It also has a placement test.  But if he won't do well with a printed program, then TT might work anyway.  It has been very helpful for many.  

We have done CLE in the past and was considering it again. I have a couple spare light units so I looked at them and talked about it with my DS. He said they were too hard to to stay focused on and asked that we not use them. He said he felt he did better with Abeka when we switched. I don't care for Abeka in the older grades so I'm trying to figure out what to do. Thanks so much for your help and input :)

[3_monkeys_mom]

 What does CTC stand for?

 

CTC Math. It is an online math program:

http://ctcmath.com/

[Guest]

We have used Teaching Textbooks for several years and it is right on grade level. My kids have done exceptionally well on standardized tests and have no problem applying what they have learned in math to their science courses. :)

[Brianna]

I love TT!!! My kids were somewhat resistant to me teaching math and it has really helped. My oldest is ADD and 2nd is ADHD. Prior to this we used Singapore math. The only thing I think they need ontop of TT is working on fact drills. You could us xtramath.com if you wanted to do that online too if needed. I like how the lessons are shorter and there is built in review. My kids are 1/2-1 year ahead but I let them earn computer time by doing extra math lessons too so that helps motivate them :)

[ktgrok]

I really wanted it to work. We used MCP for K, singapore for first, math mammoth for second, and tried TT for third. Yes we are curriculum hoppers when it comes to math. My DD hates math and I just kept thinking the right program would solve that. TT helped at first but WOW was it behind MM. I mean in the beginning of third there were single digit additions. Even today on lessons in the 70's they're asking word problems like "billy has 69¢ and gave Joan a dime. What does he have now?" She just got so darn bored with it that she begged to go back to MM. We skipped some but there would be just enough new material that we couldn't skip a whole lesson. I think she needs somewhat of a spiral approach but TT is a lot of review, moves too slowly, and is at least a half grade behind other programs.

 

Starting off easy doesn't make it behind. Heck, even the Algebra 2 starts off with really simple stuff, but it progresses past that after a few lessons. It's just review. Similarly, in every lesson there are some really easy problems. Just a few, but they are there, because it is reviewing everything previously covered. 

 

I can say that he did pre-algebra and with TT and had no problem going into an Algebra 1 course after that, with a different curriculum. 

 

And yes, Math Mammoth was harder, but he'd forget stuff after the lesson was over. So he's learning more with TT, despite it being "behind". 

 

As for how to "skip" lesson, you have them just do the practice problems, those are on the new material. If they get those all right, move on to the next lesson. Often I had him do two lessons a day that way. Or more, in the beginning of the year when it was mostly review. 

[Haiku]

And yes, Math Mammoth was harder, but he'd forget stuff after the lesson was over. So he's learning more with TT, despite it being "behind". 

 

MM worked very well for my dd. It was a disaster for my son. Tears, anxiety, frustration ... he finally came to me and said, "Mom, I think this math was made for someone with a different brain!" Mastery math doesn't work for him. He needs the continual repetition of spiral to keep his skills sharp.

 

I agonized over what to do about math for my son. I suspected that TT would reach him, but I shied away from it because "they" said it wasn't a good program. I spent six months worrying about what to do and what program to switch to when it became clear that MM wasn't working for my son. While I fretted and hemmed and hawed, my son not only learned no math, he also had his confidence destroyed. I finally bit the bullet and purchased TT3. (Honestly, what finally made the choice for me was talking to my dh, who is extremely good at math and took college-level calculus while a junior in high school. I spilled out all my math woes to him and he said, in his typical "I don't get the problem, there is no emergency here" way, "Just use the program you think the boy would learn from. Who cares how hard it is?") TT3 was not hard for him and he completed it in about 4 months. He loved it and decided that he was fine at math; he just didn't get MM. He's now in TT6 (almost done and will move into 7 while still in 6th grade) and he is competent at math. He doesn't dread it. He still makes some calculation errors due to his dyslexia, but he understands what he is doing, and he understand why. While TT is heavy on procedure, I haven't found it to be devoid of concept. In fact, I think that the illustrations and animations do a pretty good job of explaining the concept and the "why." Then again, my son doesn't really care about the why. He's a "just the facts, ma'am" kind of kid when it comes to math. And that's ok. Not everyone has to be super into math and a high achiever. Sometimes it's enough to just know enough. (But then again, I know enough people, even in real life, who have used TT and their kids have done fine all the way through high school and into college. Once I started using TT, a bunch of people started admitting that they did/had, too.)

[Jess4879]

We use and love TT for our oldest.  We started on grade level after leaving MM, which we also used on grade level (she didn't retain anything using MM).  We got through a grade and a half last year and will probably do the same this year.  It does start off slowly, with lots of review, so we typically cover 2 lessons a day for the first bit.   

 

With MM she was simply pumping out information, but not understanding the why's of it.  With TT, she just "gets" it.  I still pull word problems from MM and she tackles them easily.  Before she'd just kind of get a blank look and say she didn't understand.  I do agree with a previous poster about the simplicity of the TT word problems. They are very basic (at least in the levels we've used so far - grades 4 & 5).  It's such an easy thing to supplement though.

 

Like every curriculum, it isn't perfect.  There are things you have to watch for.  Make sure you go over the grade book and see how often a problem was attempted twice, how many times a tip was viewed, etc.  Also, make sure your child is doing lessons on paper.  So many people hand over the CD and figure that's all there is to it.  In the workbooks there is a blurb about how "best" to use the program.  The child is meant to watch the lecture and then immediately revert to the workbook and work the problems on paper before putting the info into the computer.  So many people skip the paper work and then complain that there was no retention. 

 

My advice is to give it a try. :)  It's got a good resale value if it doesn't work out for you guys.

 

 

[cbalogh]

This program can be easy to not necessarily cheat but certainly work through in a way that does not truly reflect understanding even if the grades show all A's.

 

 

 

I chose TT Pre-Alg (7th gr) because I'm not good at math and I didn't want to have to grade papers.  We went to Art of Problem Solving (8th gr) and my dd13 would get frustrated often.  I think it may have been because she couldn't 'beat the system'.  I think she would put some answer in the box in TT, get in wrong, and just move on.  She has now been forced to try harder since when you get an answer wrong in Alcumus (AoPS's online component) she would lose points and then have to do more problems.  And as a mom you may smile when I tell you that when it got really bad, she just started writing the answer down when the solution was revealed after getting it wrong because she saw that the problems repeated themselves eventually.  She then just typed in the right answer when that problem came around again and 'passed' because the program ran out of questions.  When asked about a comparison between TT and AoPS she admitted that she just tried to get through the lessons in TT and didn't really understand.  So I wanted to second what OneStepAtATime has said above.  Now I'm trying to figure out what to do next-- if I have to be vigilant with using  TT, that is me having to be involved more than I'd like and I am super involved in other subjects and need math to be independent.  I don't think most children would be as sneaky as mine is, though.

 

Cynthia

[cbalogh]

Ime, TT is easier than other math programs. I don't think this is necessarily a problem. Some kids do not thrive with hard math programs. TT would not be a good fit for my dd, but it is excellent for my son. I gave up on math snobbery a long time ago and chose the programs that work for my kids. My son went from hating math and feeling like a dunce to liking math and seeing himself as capable. If he never goes into a math-heavy career, so be it.

 

 

What a wonderful, refreshing, and delightful point of view.  I need to print this off to remind myself of these things.

 

Cynthia

[bnneale]

We have used TT for years and have loved it.  My kids have great confidence in math which is a huge plus!  However, I echo what a lot of other moms have said.  It's not perfect and you have to WATCH what they are doing.  I had one child skip almost a whole year of the practice problems because it didn't count against him.  He spent the summer re-doing them.  Also, because of TT, my kids don't think they have to do things on paper and try to do everything in their head.  For the more advanced math (Geometry and Alg. 2), I prefer the older version of TT because it's too easy to just guess at the answers and get the right one, especially because it gives two choices.  Having to grade their work daily, it keeps me accountable to checking their progress and being on track with where they are.  

[Kessepha]

Whatever you shift to, give a placement test if there is one.  There is one with TT.  Math programs are very different.  It is hard to know where a child will fit well until you give a placement test.  The TT test is easy to administer.

Indeed. 

I've been avidly reading replies.  We're planning to use TT with my very focused math advanced child next year.  He needs a break for his development to catch up to his computation skills.  He will be a fourth grader but placed into TT level 7 after finishing Saxon 6/5 this year.  It looks like we're approaching TT for opposite reasons some of you have, but life is an experiment; not just with the first child.

 

Anyway, I, too, am thankful for your replies.