Computer science major concerns....

[Catwoman]

You're just quoting him because he said that you made excellent points. ;) :D :leaving:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Hey, people don't say things like that very often, so I need to capitalize on it when I can! :D

[Bootsie]

I wish his prof would stop saying fix all this and you will be good. I am glad he is encouraging, but this was the second semester of this. I wish he would say "you have had a second semester and did not correct this, perhaps computer science is not for you. You should consider other majors."

The behavior the prof describes can be problematic no matter what his major is.  I question I might pose would be: "If you are not interested enough in this material to come to class and to do the homework, are you really interested enough to major in the subject?  Is this something you want to be doing for the rest of your life?"

[ktgrok]

The behavior the prof describes can be problematic no matter what his major is.  I question I might pose would be: "If you are not interested enough in this material to come to class and to do the homework, are you really interested enough to major in the subject?  Is this something you want to be doing for the rest of your life?"

 

Yes, this!  As I said before, I was a science major. I hit organic chem, with what I later found out was the worst professor (like..people would wait years to take organic in order to avoid him, he was INSANE), and had my come to jesus moment. I failed. Hard. Part of it yes, was a lousy professor. He told us "I get bored teaching things in order year after year, so I 'll just skip around to what I feel like." Um, no. There were other issues too. But had I loved the material, been fascinated by it, etc, I would have made it work. Others did. 

 

Meanwhile, I was taking an elective, Intro to Islam. I LOVED that class. I showed up early, stayed late. I never missed, even when sick. I did the work. I did the reading. I got an A. I liked the people in the class. I liked the professor. I took another religion class, same thing. I swear, the sun was even brighter in that part of the campus. I changed my major and it was 100 percent the right thing to do. 

[Mrs. Tharp]

 

He forwarded me the email from his prof......

 

 

There were several things you could have done to improve your performance this semester

1. Do all the homework and start it early. You got better on this at the end of the semester, but you missed/did  poorly on assignments in the beginning of the semester and this didn’t help. 

2. Attend all of the classes. Because the Core classes don’t have a textbook, there is no place that you can go to get resources aside from the notes and class. Moreover, in class, I often cover material that isn’t on the slides or is vaguely described in the slides, but the details or examples are presented in class. Showing up late and missing class can kill you on these things. 

3. Don’t take shortcuts when answering questions on tests. The biggest thing which kills you on tests is that you’ll come up with your own shorthand for answering a question, which kind of works but it omits all of the steps to arrive at your answer. So, if your shorthand isn’t correct or if you make a mistake in one of the steps that you did in your head your answer becomes completely wrong. As a result, you get no partial credit on that question. I often write questions that are very difficult to get 100% correct; however, they are fairly easy to get 80% correct. So, if you don’t show your work and you miss the answer I have no idea if you just guessed or if you just missed  a bit early on. 

 

If you can change these three behaviors, I think you’ll be good going forward. 

 

 

I haven't read the subsequent posts but this prof. gave him great feedback!!!! The issues he listed are ones a lot of kids with HFA struggle with. Your son can absolutely fix these problems if he wants to, and be a better student for it going forward.  It does sound like he could benefit from some additional academic support, maybe someone he could check in with and review his work with every couple of weeks. I would also suggest very explicit instruction in study skills for college level classes. A state university maaaaay be easier but he will lose this level of constructive feedback. He needs this kind of feedback, now, when the consequences of failing are only poor grades. 

 

 

[Lanny]

He sounds a lot like me in some ways. I definitely have executive function issues. I was a science major, and that didn't work out. I switched to a humanities major, and was fine. Got all A's. The structure of the class was different...it was big ideas, not detail work. Sounds like your son may dislike detail oriented stuff as much as I do. Which means not only is the degree a bad choice, but he'd probably hate the job he got even if he did do well. From what people are describing here it sounds like my worst nightmare of a job!  <snip>

 

If the OPs DS does not like detail oriented work or classes, I applaud the OP for beginning this public thread and trying to help her DS.  Working as a Software Engineer or Electronic Engineer is one little detail after another. Everything needs to work properly and that requires proper Design, proper Implementation and proper Testing and there are *lots* of problems to be solved, on a daily basis.

 

IMHO the OP and her DS should sit down ASAP (possibly with a Career Counselor), before he begins another Semester as a CS Major. This IMHO is a train wreck about to happen and that will not be good for the student involved...  His interests are not covered in the CS courses he is taking and his talents are not there.

[Laurie4b]

I know nothing about computer science. However, i do have a ds with executive functioning deficits.  That professor gave excellent feedback. I think the question is to decide which is true: 1)  is computer science inherently interesting to your son and would he want to pursue the kind of help with executive skills functioning that would enable him to handle the CS level of detail work  OR 2) the other hypothesis would be that the level of detail in CS is too much for him and the work is not a good fit. The answer to that question would determine his next course of action. If he decides that he's been an undisciplined college freshman but that he really does like CS, then he needs to retake those foundational level courses and get some help in place for the executive functioning stuff. The office of disabilities at the college may have some suggestions for him.

 

Executive functioning skills often improve over time, and even in kids without a diagnosis, it's not uncommon, especially for guys, to not yet have the discipline to succeed in college classes. A little bit of maturing can make a huge amount of difference when that kind of guy goes back to college. Taking a year off to work might give his brain more time to develop and he could retake the courses at a local cc if your local cc has a good department in computer science.

[QueenCat]

 

He forwarded me the email from his prof......

 

 

There were several things you could have done to improve your performance this semester

1. Do all the homework and start it early. You got better on this at the end of the semester, but you missed/did  poorly on assignments in the beginning of the semester and this didn’t help. 

2. Attend all of the classes. Because the Core classes don’t have a textbook, there is no place that you can go to get resources aside from the notes and class. Moreover, in class, I often cover material that isn’t on the slides or is vaguely described in the slides, but the details or examples are presented in class. Showing up late and missing class can kill you on these things. 

3. Don’t take shortcuts when answering questions on tests. The biggest thing which kills you on tests is that you’ll come up with your own shorthand for answering a question, which kind of works but it omits all of the steps to arrive at your answer. So, if your shorthand isn’t correct or if you make a mistake in one of the steps that you did in your head your answer becomes completely wrong. As a result, you get no partial credit on that question. I often write questions that are very difficult to get 100% correct; however, they are fairly easy to get 80% correct. So, if you don’t show your work and you miss the answer I have no idea if you just guessed or if you just missed  a bit early on. 

 

If you can change these three behaviors, I think you’ll be good going forward. 

 

 

Great response from the professor. Sounds like a dedicated professor, to give such detailed help. It sounds like your son didn't view class attendance as important. Nor did he view doing all of his work as important. If he chooses to be dedicated, he could turn things around. Do to the nature of life in your home right now, I would not have him return home. I'd help him find a place to live, or be at, where he can have a second chance at success.

[go_go_gadget]

I don't have autism or any LD's I'm aware of, but because academics had always been easy for me, I didn't learn to work hard until I was a CS major (turned math major). GE classes were usually a cakewalk even without doing all of the assignments or coming to class, but not so in CS/math. I had my babies during what would otherwise have been my last years of college, so when I returned I had a much higher motivation than I'd had before, and that was what I needed to do well (though it was still an enormous struggle to overcome old habits). Looking at my transcript, any reasonable person would conclude that I had no aptitude for the courses I was taking, and should definitely major in some kind of humanities subject, in which I always did well. Having the time to mature (I started college at 15, and had no firm idea of what I wanted to do, yet) and to create my own motivation in the form of my children, was what I needed to learn how to succeed. I graduated with a BS in pure math in June, and am now in grad school for the same.

 

I realize that your son's situation may be very different from my own, but I don't think switching majors is necessarily the right move. If he does well in the GE classes because skating by is easy, switching majors will not help him develop the discipline to apply himself. It's also possible that once he gets past the intro-level classes in one of those subjects his habits will start holding him back again. Of course, if he really does have different habits in those classes, that might actually be a good sign that a change of major is indicated. I would try to have him really closely examine his habits in all his classes to see if there any clues there, and also consider taking some time to just work and learn to support himself. He can always go back and get a degree later.

[Lanny]

+1 for post #58 by go_go_gadget...   I would add one more thing to my previous comments in this thread. If the student changes and he becomes TRULY MOTIVATED to succeed in CS, I would suggest strongly that he then consider changing his Major to Electronic Engineering.  If he should decide to do that, then I would suggest that he change to a university with a very good college/school of Engineering.  Software Engineering is very closely related to the Hardware one is working with. The better understanding of Hardware that one has, the easier the work is. Hardware people can understand the Software required for their device to operate, but it isn't so easy for Software people to understand the Hardware...  So, from that standpoint, and others, I consider an Electronic Engineering degree a better way to go.

 

That suggestion is something like what my Uncle who had a  Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering told me when I was a boy. He wished that he had gone into Physics instead. Broader education...

 

Understanding the Hardware also requires patience. I remember, for one example, reading the manual for an ARINC (Aeronautical Radio Inc.) Receiver, many times, before I picked up on one paragraph that said it could also transmit a few characters. That was what I needed, for a test...  I'd read that paragraph before, but it didn't sink in... It was a Receiver, but it could also transmit...   :hurray:

[Arcadia]

.. I would add I would suggest strongly that he then consider changing his Major to Electronic Engineering.

That has the same issue as CS in the sense of attention to minute details and long hours. The OP's son has to see where his interest really lies and where he can "hyper focus".

 

At this point, taking a year off to work in CS or whatever OP's son choose might be better. He needs proper career counseling.

[Lanny]

That has the same issue as CS in the sense of attention to minute details and long hours. The OP's son has to see where his interest really lies and where he can "hyper focus".

 

At this point, taking a year off to work in CS or whatever OP's son choose might be better. He needs proper career counseling.

 

I absolutely agree with you. Electronic Engineering would be HARDER for him than CS is. But, if he can get his "rear in gear", with regard to STEM subjects, then I would suggest changing his Major from CS to EE.

 

I agree with you also regarding the possibility of a year off.   Way up thread, I considered suggesting the possibility of him considering enlisting in the military, however I don't know if they will consider someone with the problem he has.  So, I am not suggesting they consider that as an option for him.

 

The sooner he can be successful in all of his courses, the better his life will be.

[Katy]

I think he might not have the math skills or study habits to pull off a computer science or engineering program right now.

 

It is really normal in a good school for half the kids to flunk a programming course.  It's actually a sign of a school that hasn't watered down their curriculum.

 

I think he needs to decide what he wants.  If he actually wants to just be a programmer, he can master the math on khan academy and the programming courses on udacity and get a job.

 

If he just wants a high-paying job in computers, he can go to a community college program in network administration, and maybe go back for computer science later.

 

If he wants a computer science degree, he needs to brush up on his math skills and make entirely new habits.  He must go to class every single class.  If he must miss for some unavoidable reason, he should get notes from someone else in class OR from the instructor.  He must finish his homework right after it is assigned.  Literally do nothing else but homework until the assignments are done.  If he's not ready to commit to that, he should choose something easier, because CS or engineering are not fields you can fake your way through. 

[Katy]

One more thing...  electrical engineering is one of the highest paid fields because it's an extremely difficult degree to finish.  I think at DH's school maybe only 20% of the kids who initially went for EE ended up getting the degree.  It requires about 80 hours of work per week on average, and more in the weeks before final projects and exams.  It's very difficult for a smart kid who has great math skills and good executive function.  If your DS wants to go EE, he should probably get some sort of therapy to improve his executive functioning skills, and he needs to be able to ace any math course he takes first.

[Catwoman]

Any updates, Elisabet? Has your son made any decisions about next semester?

 

I hope you are able to help him find his path! :grouphug:

[Lanny]

One more thing...  electrical engineering is one of the highest paid fields because it's an extremely difficult degree to finish.  I think at DH's school maybe only 20% of the kids who initially went for EE ended up getting the degree.  It requires about 80 hours of work per week on average, and more in the weeks before final projects and exams.  It's very difficult for a smart kid who has great math skills and good executive function.  If your DS wants to go EE, he should probably get some sort of therapy to improve his executive functioning skills, and he needs to be able to ace any math course he takes first.

 

Amen to this. I consider Medicine to be much harder, but Engineering courses are probably among the toughest available.  

[MomsintheGarden]

We are a sciency-type family. Dh and I both have EE degrees. I retired after our first child was born, but dh worked in industry as an EE for many years. Our oldest graduated with degrees in CS (ABET certified in an engineering dept of a well-known tech university) and math. Our third oldest is teaching a programming class to fellow homeschooled high school students.

 

I agree completely with those who said that the professor gave valuable feedback. It sounds as if he is interested in encouraging your son to buckle down and do the work. You already know by now that a CS or engineering degree cannot be earned without doing the work. It is impossible to coast through one. If a student manages to glide by in the freshman or even sophomore classes, the deficits in knowledge will accumulate and junior year will be rough.

 

Our oldest son said that about 1/2 the students failed or transferred out of his cs program, and we've seen students being challenged in our younger son's class. Of the 13 self-selecting students in his class, two could not handle the concepts and dropped out. All 11 of the other students required extra help/tutoring and lots of encouragement to learn the concepts. Most of the parents of the 11 who finished the course expressed that their student rarely had trouble with any other courses they had taken, but he/she was being challenged by the course.

 

Keys to success in engineering/cs:

- You must really like the field. It is not enough to think, "I like computers and gadgets, and I want to get a good-paying job when I graduate, so I'll go into cs."

- You must be willing to do the work. These degrees take more hours to obtain than many others, because they are experiential in nature.

- You must be persistent. The classes start off hard and get harder.

- You must be willing to learn and overlearn the math and become very good at problem solving.

 

There are no shortcuts to get an engineering/cs degree. It's just a lot of work.

 

Best wishes to your son.