Pot smoking vs the brain

[creekland]

Studies like this one:

 

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-regular-marijuana-shrinks-brain-20141110-story.html

 

have me really wondering if the brain "build" leads to the smoking or vice versa - or both pending the person.

 

Does anyone know if there are longer term studies?  Or studies using more subjects?

 

Pot smoking often comes up in rational discussions at school, esp with recent decisions and campaigns to legalize it.  I like to keep up on current theories to be able to intelligently discuss it.

[SKL]

I agree that it can be hard to figure out the cause and effect.

 

However, I have an anecdote to share.  :)  A very close person who was a brilliant, "gifted" child told me that he had used pot for years, and then he stopped.  He said it was very clear to him that the pot made him slow and unambitious compared to his not-on-pot brain.

 

I also know that when I was young, teens used to take pot so they would not feel much when getting in trouble for, e.g., non-stellar grades, playing hooky, etc.  For them in that moment, it felt good to be less aware, but to me it is a scary thought, knowing people use it regularly and are led to believe it has no negative effects.

[Liz CA]

What I learned and am still learning in seminars is pretty much supporting what SKL wrote.

Pot users depress their CNS and become unmotivated which is often a reason why they use in the first place, to numb feelings of inadequacy, past trauma, a million possible bad experiences or fears...

Of course, we all have feelings of anxiety and inadequacy at times but those not using usually have a variety of coping strategies they use.

Pot smokers often either have no arsenal of coping strategies (which is why drug counselors often refer to "building a tool chest") or are so entrenched with an environment that fosters this type of behavior (friends) that they come to view it as a normal weapon against all unpleasant feelings.

 

There is lots of research supporting the findings that brain chemistry is altered and - even though some people deny it because it is not true for everyone - it often leads to the next drug in order to maintain that "mellow feeling" when pot alone cannot accomplish this any longer.

 

Much depends on a variety of factors in the user's brain. Some people have a high propensity toward addiction of any kind and others can use for a while and never escalate to the next, more potent drug. Reaction, tolerance and possible addiction is a very individual response. There are rather complex responses of the "pleasure brain" (limbic system) involved.

 

http://www.intheknowzone.com/substance-abuse-topics/marijuana/marijuana-in-the-brain.html  This link contains rather neutral information with some pamphlets and DVDs available as well.

 

On the positive side, brains that show "holes" on positron emission scans are areas where blood flow is severely diminished while the person is on cannabis may not have permanent damage. Once a person has stopped all usage, these areas can regenerate.

[J-rap]

From research I have done, it is believed that regular use of marijuana can potentially have an impact on the developing brain.

 

Once the brain is fully developed, regular, mild to moderate use does not seem to physically alter the brain (so no long-term effects.)

 

I do support medical marijuana for some health conditions.

 

 

 

[Liz CA]

From research I have done, it is believed that regular use of marijuana can potentially have an impact on the developing brain.

 

Once the brain is fully developed, regular, mild to moderate use does not seem to physically alter the brain (so no long-term effects.)

 

I do support medical marijuana for some health conditions.

 

In true medical cannabis (prescribed by a "real" doctor - not just one out to make money off RXs) the addictive compound is often separated so the patient gets the analgesic effect but not the addictive one.

[Joanne]

My research AND professional anecdotal experience support what Liz says. I had a client who self reported they "smoked themselves stupid."

[hornblower]

"

Effects on Cognition

There is mixed evidence as to the effects of marijuana on cognitive function. Some research has suggested a negative impact on learning and memory, but the findings may have been confounded by the acute effects of marijuana use and withdrawal symptoms. A 2011 study^[46] followed nearly 2500 young Australian participants for 8 years, looking for a relationship between change in marijuana use and cognitive performance. They found that marijuana had few long-term effects on learning and memory and that any impairments that had emerged were mostly reversible with use cessation. A 2012 meta-analysis^[47] also assessed the long-term neurocognitive impact of marijuana use after abstinence and concluded that "any negative residual effects on neurocognitive performance attributable to either cannabis residue or withdrawal symptoms are limited to the first 25 days of abstinence. Furthermore, there was no evidence for enduring negative effects of cannabis use."

Slide 16 of this Clinician's Guide to Medical Marijuana slide presentation on medscape http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/marijuana#1

[SKL]

There are long-term physical effects, and then there are the long-term effects of one's choice to use regularly.  I feel there is usually a limited window during which to build knowledge, skills, career, financial health, trust in relationships ... if a person is basically stagnant (or worse) for a stretch of years, can he make up for all that by quitting pot someday?

[Liz CA]

There are long-term physical effects, and then there are the long-term effects of one's choice to use regularly.  I feel there is usually a limited window during which to build knowledge, skills, career, financial health, trust in relationships ... if a person is basically stagnant (or worse) for a stretch of years, can he make up for all that by quitting pot someday?

 

As someone who always want to convey hope to clients, I don't really subscribe to the "window" theory even though it may be true to the extent that life is just easier when you don't "smoke yourself stupid" (as one of Joanne's clients said, see post above) and then have to undo some of the damage or catch up on educational and relational skills you were unable to develop.

As far as financial health goes, I sure hope there is a large window since we had several financial reverses in our life - not due to cannabis use, though. :)

[Joanne]

As someone who always want to convey hope to clients, I don't really subscribe to the "window" theory even though it may be true to the extent that life is just easier when you don't "smoke yourself stupid" (as one of Joanne's clients said, see post above) and then have to undo some of the damage or catch up on educational and relational skills you were unable to develop.

As far as financial health goes, I sure hope there is a large window since we had several financial reverses in our life - not due to cannabis use, though. :)

 

Where "window theory" is pertinent to me is that the development of addiction is accelerated when substances are introduced to a predisposed brain in adolescence. What would take an adult 7 - 10 years can take a teen 3-5.

[MBM]

Here is an article listing reasons why teens should not smoke pot:

http://www.makeitbetter.net/family/family-life/6515-the-case-against-pot-and-your-teen

 

You can click on the words in orange/red to read more. I thought this link was interesting:

http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2013/12/marijuana-users-have-abnormal-brain-structure--poor-memory.html

[FO4UR]

Legalizing the smoking of pot for recreational use is very different from legalizing pot for medicinal use. 

 

 

 

I don't know much about it, but I do know a little girl with epilepsy who would benefit from legalizing medicinal marijuana.  (She wouldn't smoke it, btw.)  The hard and heavy drugs she's taking right now to control seizures are debilitating!  They interfere with school, with everything!  The marijuana looks promising with fewer side effects.

[creekland]

What I learned and am still learning in seminars is pretty much supporting what SKL wrote.

Pot users depress their CNS and become unmotivated which is often a reason why they use in the first place, to numb feelings of inadequacy, past trauma, a million possible bad experiences or fears...

Of course, we all have feelings of anxiety and inadequacy at times but those not using usually have a variety of coping strategies they use.

Pot smokers often either have no arsenal of coping strategies (which is why drug counselors often refer to "building a tool chest") or are so entrenched with an environment that fosters this type of behavior (friends) that they come to view it as a normal weapon against all unpleasant feelings.

 

There is lots of research supporting the findings that brain chemistry is altered and - even though some people deny it because it is not true for everyone - it often leads to the next drug in order to maintain that "mellow feeling" when pot alone cannot accomplish this any longer.

 

Much depends on a variety of factors in the user's brain. Some people have a high propensity toward addiction of any kind and others can use for a while and never escalate to the next, more potent drug. Reaction, tolerance and possible addiction is a very individual response. There are rather complex responses of the "pleasure brain" (limbic system) involved.

 

http://www.intheknowzone.com/substance-abuse-topics/marijuana/marijuana-in-the-brain.html  This link contains rather neutral information with some pamphlets and DVDs available as well.

 

On the positive side, brains that show "holes" on positron emission scans are areas where blood flow is severely diminished while the person is on cannabis may not have permanent damage. Once a person has stopped all usage, these areas can regenerate.

 

Thanks Liz, that's a nice link for me to have read.  It's likely beyond the understanding capacity of most students, but all I really need is to summarize.

 

Here is an article listing reasons why teens should not smoke pot:

http://www.makeitbetter.net/family/family-life/6515-the-case-against-pot-and-your-teen

 

You can click on the words in orange/red to read more. I thought this link was interesting:

http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2013/12/marijuana-users-have-abnormal-brain-structure--poor-memory.html

 

Those are awesome links, MBM.  It's tempting to print them out and/or share them with teachers who might be able to work them into a lesson (Health, some science classes).

 

IME, kids aren't really swayed by anecdotes they hear.  Some are good with actual studies (scientific types) shared which is why I was looking for those (or summaries of those).  When the subject comes up, I like to "arm" the kids with factual knowledge so they can have that in their neurons somewhere as they figure out their own decisions.  I also use anecdotes to give them a picture of the facts in action, of course.

[ktgrok]

I think it seems fairly obvious that large doses/frequent doses of any mood altering substances on a rapidly developing brain (teen) might lead to trouble, changes, etc. Be that alcohol, pot, pyschotropic drugs, etc. Sometimes, say with needed medication, the pros outweigh the cons. But there still is a huge chance of issues. It only makes sense. 

 

But on the other hand, infrequent or irregular use of those same substances on a more fully developed, adult brain, would have more mild effects. The brain is different then. The ability to make reasonable choices about amount, the consequences of use can regulate things, etc. 

 

I don't want my teen drinking afterschool, or smoking afterschool. As an adult, if it became legal for adults, I'd have no issue with him having a drink or two on a sunday during the football game or smoking while doing the same. but daily? No one has time for that and to be truly functional/aware. 

[Anne]

I read recently that the marijuana available today is much different (i.e., "stronger") than what was available when I was in high school.  Does anyone know anything about this?

 

Anne

[hornblower]

No, this is mostly a myth.  Cdn author Dan Gardner wrote a column on this in the Ottawa Citizen
 

http://www2.canada.com/ottawacitizen/columnists/story.html?id=85c788c2-3db6-46db-a3fd-68883e1f59d0

& a previous, older blog post about it http://www.dangardner.ca/articles/item/220-the-potent-pot-myth

[Sdel]

I agree that it can be hard to figure out the cause and effect.

 

However, I have an anecdote to share.  :)  A very close person who was a brilliant, "gifted" child told me that he had used pot for years, and then he stopped.  He said it was very clear to him that the pot made him slow and unambitious compared to his not-on-pot brain.

 

I also know that when I was young, teens used to take pot so they would not feel much when getting in trouble for, e.g., non-stellar grades, playing hooky, etc.  For them in that moment, it felt good to be less aware, but to me it is a scary thought, knowing people use it regularly and are led to believe it has no negative effects.

 

I've noticed this as well.....the pot smokers in my family have NO drive or follow through for anything, not even something as important as their child. 

 

With one in particular....he was probably always a little bit ADD/ADHD, but after years of smoking and now being non-smoking his ADD/ADHD is completely unmanageable. If he'd been as bad as he is now as a kid, it'd have been so glaringly obvious and he'd have been on meds before adulthood. Even on medications he can't focus on 2 things at once or even follow two directions given at the same time and 100% depends on other people to do his thinking for him.  It really is quite sad.....

 

And his previously pot smoking roommate also exhibits the same obviously slow processing effects and lack of drive.

[MBM]

Marijuana has its pros and cons. I'm not against it, but it's important to learn about it.

 

Regarding young kids, if they have a high ACE score -- Adverse Childhood Experiences score (early traumatic events) -- they will very likely use drugs. The trauma literally wires their brains in an unhealthy way making them more impulsive, depressed, anxious, violent, etc. They can be helped by good psychological treatment which works by rewiring their brains.

 

Anyway, here are some more articles:

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/search/?keyword=marijuana+thc

 

 

I read recently that the marijuana available today is much different (i.e., "stronger") than what was available when I was in high school.  Does anyone know anything about this?

 

Anne

 

I don't know what is absolutely true, but according to the following link, levels of THC in marijuana today have increased:

 

http://www.drugabuse.gov/news-events/news-releases/2013/12/sixty-percent-12th-graders-do-not-view-regular-marijuana-use-harmful

 

“This is not just an issue of increased daily use,†said NIDA Director Nora D. Volkow, M.D. “It is important to remember that over the past two decades, levels of THC – the main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana – have gone up a great deal, from 3.75 percent in 1995 to an average of 15 percent in today’s marijuana cigarettes. Daily use today can have stronger effects on a developing teen brain than it did 10 or 20 years ago.â€

 

 

 

NIDA = National Institute for Drug Abuse which is part of the NIH

 

Nora Volkow's work about addiction is interesting to read about:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_Volkow