Anyone switch Singapore to Saxon 7th grade

[scrapper4life]

I've spent a long time today reading archives to find some testimonials of the switch from Singapore to Saxon at 7th grade. This is the path recommended by MFW. I found lots of feedback from people who switched from Saxon, but I am trying to see how o D's transitioned to Saxon from Singapore at that level.

 

I am mainly concerned about gaps. My dh is concerned that I do not go "curriculum hopping," as I heard it termed. If this is a planned transition with proven results, I may be able to settle his doubts.

[wapiti]

There should be no gaps if you finish Singapore 6 and switch to a prealgebra (such as Saxon 8/7) though you can always take the placement test to be sure. Secondary math is a different animal entirely from elementary in that there is a certain standard amount of content in alg 1 and higher, so changing texts between years is common. Saxon is integrated, though the same total content should be taught within the years it purports to cover.

 

In any case, suppose hypothetically you come upon a gap, a topic that had not been learned previously. What would you do? You would pause to find something else that taught the little topic and eliminate the gap before moving on.

 

(FWIW, I think it's always good to know well what you are choosing and not just choose what someone else - in this case MFW - tells you to. So keep on researching :). I wonder what mFW's reasons are for such a change in programs as they are rather different in learning philosophy. As far as noticing people moving from Saxon and not the other way around, it may be helpful to note those reasons as well, along with whether those situations differ from your family's)

 

Eta

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/89768-what-level-saxon-after-singapore-6b/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/470084-saxon-87-after-singapore-6b/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/328634-switch-from-singapore-to-saxon-also-not-sure-nem-saxon-87-or-algebra-12/

[MiMi 4under3]

 

I am mainly concerned about gaps. 

 

You will have no gaps if you switch to Saxon 6/7! Saxon is a very complete and thorough curriculum.

[Ellie]

There shouldn't really be any gaps.

 

Be sure to have your ds take the placement test, though; Don't just pick a Saxon text and go with it.

[cbollin]

oops.. .I sent this via PM at first.   meant to post out loud. so you get to read it twice. sorry about that...

 

My oldest followed MFW math sequence from 5th grade through 12th.  did it with the MFW lesson plans.and when I say the mfw sequence I mean:

 

She did Singapore 4b - 6b in grades 5 and 6.   (she took saxon placement test and could have started in Alg 1, but there would have been gaps.  decided against Agl 1/2 for variety of reasons, mainly she was in 7th grade and first intro to Saxon)

so we did Saxon 87 in 7th,  the "gaps" (if one can call it that, were with negative numbers and a few little things in probablity and stats. 

Alg 1 in 8th.

Jacob's  Geometry in 9th,

Saxon alg 2 in 10th.  at the end of that she took and passed CLEP college algebra (with some study guide)

Saxon Advanced in 11th

 

She scored a 28 on the math subscore of her ACT test (with a 30 overall).  She is an engineering major in college.  MFW recommended to us that since she'd need Calc 2 and 3 for her degree to take a college trig course in 12th, and some calculus for prep work.  Saxon otherwise most likely has enough Trig for other majors. But there were customers ahead of me who needed more as engineering majors so I took the advice.

 

She's getting an A in freshman calculus in her engineering section. yeah!

 

Sorry if I sound like a commercial for them, but it worked for us.  She's smart in math.  Doing well.  Yes, I'm glad we did Saxon 87 in 7th grade. It was a good transition for working more on her own with less help from me and filled the Pre Algebra "gaps" that were not in US Editions of Singapore Primary.

 

I'm thankful MFW adds a full year of logic/proof based geometry to fill in what Saxon's geometry in 3rd edition didn't have.

and I was thankful that they suggesting College Trig to fill in for speciality for engineering major.  We used the same college text that local university used.   Most students probably don't need that added.

 

hope some of that experience helps you as you decide.  But we did math the "mfw recommendations" and it's working out for us.

 

[Reefgazer]

Slight hijack:  Do other editions of Saxon's integrated high school math have proofs?

 

 

 

oops.. .I sent this via PM at first.   meant to post out loud. so you get to read it twice. sorry about that...

 

My oldest followed MFW math sequence from 5th grade through 12th.  did it with the MFW lesson plans.and when I say the mfw sequence I mean:

 

She did Singapore 4b - 6b in grades 5 and 6.   (she took saxon placement test and could have started in Alg 1, but there would have been gaps.  decided against Agl 1/2 for variety of reasons, mainly she was in 7th grade and first intro to Saxon)

so we did Saxon 87 in 7th,  the "gaps" (if one can call it that, were with negative numbers and a few little things in probablity and stats. 

Alg 1 in 8th.

Jacob's  Geometry in 9th,

Saxon alg 2 in 10th.  at the end of that she took and passed CLEP college algebra (with some study guide)

Saxon Advanced in 11th

 

She scored a 28 on the math subscore of her ACT test (with a 30 overall).  She is an engineering major in college.  MFW recommended to us that since she'd need Calc 2 and 3 for her degree to take a college trig course in 12th, and some calculus for prep work.  Saxon otherwise most likely has enough Trig for other majors. But there were customers ahead of me who needed more as engineering majors so I took the advice.

 

She's getting an A in freshman calculus in her engineering section. yeah!

 

Sorry if I sound like a commercial for them, but it worked for us.  She's smart in math.  Doing well.  Yes, I'm glad we did Saxon 87 in 7th grade. It was a good transition for working more on her own with less help from me and filled the Pre Algebra "gaps" that were not in US Editions of Singapore Primary.

 

I'm thankful MFW adds a full year of logic/proof based geometry to fill in what Saxon's geometry in 3rd edition didn't have.

and I was thankful that they suggesting College Trig to fill in for speciality for engineering major.  We used the same college text that local university used.   Most students probably don't need that added.

 

hope some of that experience helps you as you decide.  But we did math the "mfw recommendations" and it's working out for us.

[cbollin]

 

I can tell you alittle  bit about the reason behind MFW's reasons for changing:

 

1. Singapore works well in elementary/ grammar/early logic stage of learning.  Short lessons each day.  very solid and thinking skills.  Good strong solid base.  So they liked Singapore for elementary as it fit more in their Charlotte Mason thinking.  (doesn't mean Saxon can't work, but they liked results with Singapore).   not a huge time for mom/dad to teach from it each day.

2. Then in grades 7-12th, they tend to have the student do more learning on their own.  Saxon has good track record over the years.  Has several options for teacher when mom/dad don't have the time with oldest students in math.

3. They liked Singapore for older years, but feedback from pilot families in their program was that it needed more help to be done on own.  Now of course there are plenty of families out there who do one of the higher level singapores and just fine.  but they were basing in on their feedback.

4. and at the time?  there were several upper level singapore paths..  so it was fall back to Saxon  :)

 

basically came down to different things working in different stages of learning, combined with helps available.  Their lesson planners were developed by a career math teacher who had used Saxon. 

 

5. They like doing the Jacob's Geometry as a full year proof based style to do geometry differently than the Saxon Alg 1, 2, Advanced. 

 

on the other hand, if one is using MFW, one does not have to use their math path.  Several of their staff families didn't.  so it's all good.  I'm the weirdo who did mfw's stuff and turned out ok.

[cbollin]

I'm sure some of the Saxon geometry stuff has proofs.  I don't have all editions to compare and contrast. 

 

I just know my oldest said that what she did in Jacobs was different from what was in the Saxon books.  the homeschool editions.  and that she liked it.   I'm enjoying doing Jacob's Geometry this year with my middle daughter and seeing the thinking process.  It's not the same as what we did in Saxon books.

 

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm saying Saxon is bad.  I just appreciated having a different approach to cover some topics. and I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum who think a 28 in math ACT is a low score, or did better with just Saxon.

 

all I know is my story. :)  hopefully someone who has done a full comparison of various editions will chime in

[cbollin]

oops. that's what I get for answering late at night.   I told you the long range outlook, but didn't answer how it was going from Singapore to Saxon in 7th grade year. 

 

Oldest did mostly fine.  She was in a major hormonal year in 7th grade and some parts of Saxon she claimed she "hated". (practicing drills for examples as a daily warm up before lesson.)  She did the work though and it wasn't hard transition.  Nor did I think it was a waste.  She had an attitude problem that math wasn't done in about 20 minutes anymore, and hated showing her work.  but fast forward to this year and she finally understands why we told her to show her work and write neatly. 

 

MIddle gal:  she is slower in school.  At the end of 6th grade, she was only in Singapore 5B.  7th grade rolls around and we started Saxon 87 with no problems.  incremental approach was good for her.  Easy to read the text and learn.  Anything that might have a small case for being called a "gap" was taught in Saxon 87.  I got the idea those coming up through Saxon saw that material before, but it was new to us and taught in the lesson with direct instruction.  So it may have been the first time it was in Saxon as far as I know.  Plenty of instruction.  She didnt' give us any attitude.  she's a sweet person even if she's slow in school. (she did 87, alg 1/2, then alg 1.. jacobs geometry this year)

 

neither of my daughters struggled with the transition (other than oldest and her attitude).  Singapore taught one taught with bar diagrams. Saxon taught with some other methods.

 

I think mfw does it as a planned transition.  our results have been good. MFW didn't do it as a whim of a decision or to encourage "curriculum hopping". I've seen how it's gone in my family and really can see that different math publishers have fit our family in different learning stages.   and hopefully early morning posting I answered it this time. 

 

 

[kiana]

I don't think a change at the end of elementary school is "curriculum hopping"

 

Doing something like Singapore 1, Saxon 2, TT 3, CLE 4 would be curriculum hopping and not a good idea. Elementary school scope and sequence varies but they all end up in pretty much the same place, so right before pre-algebra is a great time to change.

[SparklyUnicorn]

My situation isn't exactly the same, but I used Singapore for elementary and we went with Saxon for Algebra 1.  I did some odds and ends in between for our "pre-algebra".  It's worked out very well.  We are now starting Saxon Algebra 2.

 

I don't consider that curriculum hopping either.  i have one of the middle level Singapore books (this would be a book after PM), and I didn't care for it.  The support materials aren't great for homeschoolers (no parent manual, just TMs which are very expensive).  So basically I don't consider SM to a be a contender for upper level math (for us).

 

 

[wintermom]

I don't think a change at the end of elementary school is "curriculum hopping"

 

Doing something like Singapore 1, Saxon 2, TT 3, CLE 4 would be curriculum hopping and not a good idea. Elementary school scope and sequence varies but they all end up in pretty much the same place, so right before pre-algebra is a great time to change.

 

I agree. It seems like a very natural time to make a change, if you do want to change. If Singapore is going well, though, you don't necessarily have to change.

 

I switched my dc over from Singapore to Saxon for several reasons, and the transition went quite smoothly. The 2 biggest differences my dc noticed were that they had to write down the questions/answers in a seperate notebook; and that each lesson presents a new topic followed by review questions. 

 

Rather than gaps, I noticed that Saxon had a more gentle progression to complex problems, and a lot more on-going review to solidify topics. I didn't go from SM 6b to Saxon 8/7, rather into Algebra 1/2, and it was a very positive move for my dd. My younger ds went from SM 5b into Saxon 8/7, and this went really smoothly, too. 

[scrapper4life]

Thank you so much! I think this will settle Hubby's concerns :)

 

I cannot express how thankful I am to have found this forum!

[cbollin]

If your dh still wants to hear MFW's official reasons (instead of my choppy version of it), there is a FAQ section on their website for Math... here... is the link to FAQ,, then you can use the pull down menu for Math category to see their reasons on the switch, and why to stick with 3rd edition Saxon, and why  Jacob's Geometry instead of Saxon Geometry..

 

but yeah, use this link and then the pull down menu for Math category.

http://www.mfwbooks.com/setcnt/FAQS

 

sigh.. I wish they made that part of their website more obvious.   I knew it was there and struggled this morning to find it.  maybe it's the clock change messing with my brain.  ;)

 

 

well, I must be tired... if the link above is not working well for you (like it isn't for me), this might be easier

 

http://www.mfwbooks.com/products/M50/60/0/0/1#faqs

 

 

 

 

[Punks in Ontario]

We switched after SM5.  Ds12 went into Saxon 87.  There weren't any gaps that I can think of.  The biggest adjustment was getting used to the heavier workload.  We took extra days to get lessons completed so he wouldn't have too much work.  Both kids were all ready doing the timed math tests.  Ds 10 switched to Saxon 76 since he's a bit weaker in math and his brother was still using the 87 book.  That transition has been really easy.  So far (lesson 35), it's all review.

 

I do much of the teaching with the guys as well as the mental math at the beginning of the lesson.