Food fallacies - what is true what is not? Help me discern where I'm being duped.

[Sdel]

So, a little off topic here, but do you know if someone with a soy allergy should avoid such animal products, or if it doesn't matter by that point? And what are "non-conventionally fed" animals eating? Thanks!

 

I'm not a food allergy expert, but I'd venture to say probably, but it is almost impossible to avoid unless you are raising the animals yourself or know explicitly what the farmer is feeding.  As for "conventionally fed" I'm talking about anyone who buys a pre-made animal feed mix, big feed or local supplier, for pretty much any animal, except specially marketed stuff, will contain a huge amount of corn and soy.  You'd have to check the ingredients to know 100% for sure.

 

And I'd like to correct the earlier statement.  Rough day and I mixed up corn and soy.  Typical commercial feeds will run 50 - 70% corn/grain and about 20% soy or an equivalent, still an extremely high soy content.  Soy is the most prevalent "protein" component in feeds because it is the cheapest. 

 

Non-conventionally fed animals (in the States) are 100% grass-fed beef and raw fed dogs and cats.  Everything else probably gets some amount of soy unless they have a 100% custom crafted diet.  However, soy aside, corn/grain is not an appropriate food for any of our domestic animals except chickens, and you can see that on the micro-biologic level even outside of the chemical compositions of an animal's fat.  The only species biologically adapted to efficiently use dietary corn/grains are poultry. 

 

Stefanie

[AMJ]

Okay, since you ask, I'll chime in my $0.02's worth (no cents symbol on my keyboard?!?) on behalf of frozen veggies.

 

Lots of people disrespect frozen veggies, thinking that buying fresh produce is ALWAYS better.  I'm here to tell you that sometimes the frozen is better, especially in winter and early spring.

 

The reason is proximity of the fields to the processing facilities.  Most produce in your grocery store is picked when not quite fully "ripe" or flavorful, so it will not only endure the bumps of transportation but will not be overripe once it reaches its destination and is offered for sale.  In contrast, the facilities that freeze produce are built quite close to the fields which are their supply, and so the produce to be frozen can be harvested at the peak of flavor since it's not traveling very far.  In the facility the produce is washed (a LOT), cut, FLASH FROZEN, bagged, and stored in very short order.

 

Flash freezing is a process in which the food is frozen very quickly at very low temperatures.  This type of freezing results in much smaller ice crystals, and therefore less damage to the structure of the vegetable.  It also preserves more of the nutrients in the food, and results in a nicer consistency of the finished product once thawed and appropriately cooked.  Produce frozen at home cannot match this, since home freezers are slow to freeze.

 

While I like fresh fruits and veggies from the produce section I'll make sure I buy them when they are actually in season (because they are cheaper as well as more flavorful) and grown reasonably close to home.  If I don't find that I go with frozen.  I recommend you do some price comparisons, too, as even during the summer and fall the frozen produce can be quite competitively priced when compared to the fresh.

[Hannahs4]

Re frozen veggies-

I just read a study showing antioxidant absorption is better from frozen blueberries - yay!

 

Re - everything else:

Number one healthy thing you can do for your family, is eat the right amount of food. gulp. No waste, no overeating. Being even just overweight will bring sickness and disease a whole lot faster than non organic produce. I think we spend far too much time as a society obsessing over toxins, while disregarding our growing waist lines. And growing waist lines are directly linked to many forms of cancer, and all the metabolic diseases, including Alzheimer's. Fat=inflammation=disease.

 

Second, fats are where toxins are stored. So I would put money towards the best animal fats, then prioritize from there. (Paying for good butter-grass fed, or going without.)

 

I don't mean to be so preachy, just reminding myself too. ;)

[Ausmumof3]

Beef is getting so expensive. Even the regular store beef is just OUCH.

 

What kinda wigs me out is my local store sells Australian beef and it's cheaper. Quite a bit cheaper. I have nothing against Australia or their beef, but it just seems pretty crazy to me that it comes from that far and is cheaper (and they claim all grass fed).

Lots of cattle country in Australia has been in drought so beef has been cheap because farmers are trying to get rid of cattle. When the drought lifts and cattle numbers here are low due to so much stock being shed prices will go up. Grass fed is probably true because we don't have such a big intensive grain fed beef industry here. Some are going that way but there's lots of station country where the cattle are just let go then rounded up at the end of the year.

 

If it makes you feel better our supermarket currently stocks a heap of dates and oranges from California and also USA grown grapes. I don't mind the grapes and dates so much but our orange growers are struggling so it's a bit disappointing on that front.

[Ausmumof3]

Personally I go free range eggs. I tried to go organic milk but it gives us all tummy aches whereas the homogenised rubbish doesn't. Apparently that's because your body doesn't recognise the fat properly so it stores it but the other was too bad. I do make a point of buying dairy farmer friendly milk but sometimes I have to compromise when the budget gets tight. It gets too stressful to look into the origins of everything. Coffee choc etc. I try to buy Australian but sometimes it's just too hard.

 

Though apparently some free range eggs here aren't all that free range anyway. And free range pigs can be crueller than the stall ones as they get aggressive with each other. Hopefully we'll have chooks soon though.

[SparklyUnicorn]

The stickers are edible.  http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/01/15/fruit-label-sticker-facts

 

That's good to know, but I read several places that many are made of plastic.  So I'm not so sure I'd want to eat them.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah, well it wiggs me out that we were ploughing oranges into the ground while importing oranges from Brazil, and I have nothing against Brazil or their oranges either. In this case it came down to fuel taxes being lower on plane fuel than truck fuel. Maybe you've got the same thing happening.

 

Produce coming from far away is nothing new and unusual to me.  Not much produce gets grown where I live.

[LibraryLover]

All grocery stores select 'loss leader' products each week. They are not paying the supplier differently for the $1 spinach, they are reducing the price to get you in the store. They will make up for that by charging more for other items. That's why some folks keep a price book. If the spinach is a dollar, some other products you buy are raised. Knowing these fluctuations is handy.

 

I'm not saying shop at Walmart, mind you. Just pointing out a fact. Walmart stockholders swim in billions, while their workers often depend on food stamps to eat. They are self -serving hoarders of money. No love lost there. But it's also true many communities have no choice.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

All grocery stores select 'loss leader' products each week. They are not paying the supplier differently for the $1 spinach, they are reducing the price to get you in the store. They will make up for that by charging more for other items. That's why some folks keep a price book. If the spinach is a dollar, some other products you buy are raised. Knowing these fluctuations is handy.

 

I'm not saying shop at Walmart, mind you. Just pointing out a fact. Walmart stockholders swim in billions, while their workers often depend on food stamps to eat. They are self -serving hoarders of money. No love lost there. But it's also true many communities have no choice.

True. But I actually did read an article a while ago about how Wal-Mart entering the Organic market is not a good thing. Wal-Marts modus operandi is to cheat the farmer and laborers by paying less than they should, in addition to using their connections and attorneys to cut corners and jump through regulatory loopholes. There is no reason to think that will change with their Organic products.

 

If people think Wal-Mart organic is as good as straight from the farmer, or CSA, or Whole Foods organic and they choose to buy WM organic over every thing else because it's cheaper- then the real organic suppliers will suffer even more, might have to quit- and then we are left *only* with Wal-Mart organic.

[hornblower]

From 2006:

"I think organic is not quite what people think at this point," said Michael Pollan, a UC Berkeley journalism professor whose new book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma," takes a hard -- and ultimately critical -- look at what he calls "industrial organic."

 

"Consumers who think they're buying from a small local farm may actually be buying from a company moving up to half-a-million pounds of lettuce a day. Their organic milk might come from cows grazing on lush spring grass near Bodega Bay -- or it might come from a barren 5,000-cow feedlot dairy in Colorado."
 

GREEN GIANTS / Mega-producers tip scales as organic goes mainstream

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/GREEN-GIANTS-Mega-producers-tip-scales-as-2498359.php

[Liz CA]

From 2006:

 

"I think organic is not quite what people think at this point," said Michael Pollan, a UC Berkeley journalism professor whose new book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma," takes a hard -- and ultimately critical -- look at what he calls "industrial organic."

 

"Consumers who think they're buying from a small local farm may actually be buying from a company moving up to half-a-million pounds of lettuce a day. Their organic milk might come from cows grazing on lush spring grass near Bodega Bay -- or it might come from a barren 5,000-cow feedlot dairy in Colorado."

 

GREEN GIANTS / Mega-producers tip scales as organic goes mainstream

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/GREEN-GIANTS-Mega-producers-tip-scales-as-2498359.php

 

Ahhh Bodega Bay...back to the issue. I buy mostly organic. I am hoping that I am getting a step better than plain commercially, sprayed and treated products. I am aware that there are "degrees" of purity. I am trying to do the best I can with the resources I have. I am fortunate to have found a small hobby farmer who sells me her eggs and whatever else grows in her large garden. I can see the chicken grazing on grass and dust bathing, I see the goats and know where the milk is coming from, etc. Not everyone can find something like this. I would still rather get just a smidgen better (industrial organic) than fully sprayed or worse yet support a poultry industry where animals are suffering in laying cages treated with meds and induced to lay so many eggs that they die prematurely.

 

It is a life philosophy choice as well as a financial choice. I can totally see that not every family feeding 5 teens can afford for every morsel of food to be of the highest quality unless you grow it yourself.

 

To the OP: I would avoid anything with artificial hormones in it and source the best possible way you can still afford. Eggs from hens that feed on grass and worms have a much more balanced ratio of Omega 3 / 6 than eggs from caged, grain fed hens.

Chicken meat from farms where the chicken was running around until the moment of slaughter has often less stress hormones in the system than chicken who are perpetually stressed by their unnatural living conditions.

You can read up on grass-fed beef and decide if it's worth the expense.

Also, changes don't all have to come at once. I made many little changes over a period of years.

[Anne]

I haven't read any of the other responses.

 

There are so many conflicting opinions and values at work in this question that I don't believe there is any one good answer, unless you can grow everything you consume yourself. 

 

I think you really have to identify the issues which are important to YOU.  I realize that doesn't answer your question, but - without looking,  I'm pretty sure you've probably received several conflicting opinions, because - well, we're all pretty opinionated here, and we all have our hotbutton issues!!  :lol:

 

Anne

[LibraryLover]

Seeking out small farmers is important if you can do that/have access/means. In the end, I think it can help people at every income level...at some end...? I don't know.  There have been strides made since 2006 in some communities.  The prices of the various foods I posted up-thread represents those sustaianable producers. (I live in the same zip code as Pollan.  It's not like very many places. The local availability seems endless, unless one counts drought, which is a huge worry.) One never has to step foot in a conventional market, and can pretty much buy whatever organic grass-fed anything. But it's  $. However, it does sometimes manage to touch people at lower income levels. The schools here also serve real organic food in the cafeterias. So, lots of poor children getting decent free lunches.

 

 I know the prices I posted $ound in$ane, but I do try to support them as I can. I know too many who cannot, and you can't judge people because they couldn't get blood from a stone. I know this can sound elitist, but if those who can support these farmers, do, then perhaps more people might try sustainable farming.  I make sure to donate to food banks the foods I also feed my family. Some places accept refrigerated goods, some do not. I feed my kids some brands of mac & cheese, nut butters, canned tuna etc., so I donate that as well.  I work with families of all income levels, and I have been told how exciting it is to go to a food bank and get organic apples, or canned organic beans and tomatoes etc.  It's hard to talk about some of this without people taking it the wrong way. If one was able to get real organic spinach for $1, awesome. Your kid got spinach that didn't break the bank.

 

 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Seeking out small farmers is important if you can do that/have access/means. In the end, I think it can help people at every income level...at some end...? I don't know. There have been strides made since 2006 in some communities. The prices of the various foods I posted up-thread represents those sustaianable producers. (I live in the same zip code as Pollan. It's not like very many places. The local availability seems endless, unless one counts drought, which is a huge worry.) One never has to step foot in a conventional market, and can pretty much buy whatever organic grass-fed anything. But it's $. However, it does sometimes manage to touch people at lower income levels. The schools here also serve real organic food in the cafeterias. So, lots of poor children getting decent free lunches.

 

I know the prices I posted $ound in$ane, but I do try to support them as I can. I know too many who cannot, and you can't judge people because they couldn't get blood from a stone. I know this can sound elitist, but if those who can support these farmers, do, then perhaps more people might try sustainable farming. I make sure to donate to food banks the foods I also feed my family. Some places accept refrigerated goods, some do not. I feed my kids some brands of mac & cheese, nut butters, canned tuna etc., so I donate that as well. I work with families of all income levels, and I have been told how exciting it is to go to a food bank and get organic apples, or canned organic beans and tomatoes etc. It's hard to talk about some of this without people taking it the wrong way. If one was able to get real organic spinach for $1, awesome. Your kid got spinach that didn't break the bank.

I do agree with you there. I do.

 

I don't want to sound elitist either- I always get accused of that- but that's not my intention.... I just think it's very important that people are educated about our food industry, and what the ramifications of their choices are, you know?

 

If buying that $1 spinach is all someone can do, whatever, it's all they can do. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.

 

I just hope they don't think that buying that $1 spinach is the ideal- that they are supporting local farmers or doing the best for the environment or anything. That's all.

 

It's important to know the ramifications of spending money at Wal-mart, so that you can do something otherwise *when* you can.

 

I know plenty of people who *can* afford to buy organic from more ethical/sustainable places, but who probably won't because they mistakenly think that the organic stuff at Wal-Mart is equivalent to the stuff at the Farmers Market- and at Wal-Mart it's cheaper and they can get diapers and a DVD in the same trip, so Wal-Mart is a no-brainer.

 

That's the thought process that bothers me.... Not the thought process of the very poor who know that buying Anything from Wal-Mart is not the best, but it's the best they can do, so they do it grudgingly.

 

It might not make sense, but I feel like the distinction is important.

[Mrs Mungo]

I just hope they don't think that buying that $1 spinach is the ideal- that they are supporting local farmers or doing the best for the environment or anything. That's all.

 

It's important to know the ramifications of spending money at Wal-mart, so that you can do something otherwise *when* you can.

The problem is that it is hard for people to know what they are really getting from their "local farmer."

 

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Hidden-Camera-Investigation-Farmers-Markets-103577594.html

 

I go to a lot of farmers markets here in Hawaii. Some vendors are selling items that sell to locals and grow well in Hawaii. I'm a pretty big fruit and veggie eater, but I often wind up having to ask, "What is this? What does it taste like? How do you prepare it?" There are other more typical items that they grow in state-herbs, squash, avocados, pineapple (of course), etc. But *sometimes* there are items that I *know* they don't grow in the state like apples.