Question about Online Classes

[emzhengjiu]

My daughter is taking free dual credit classes through our local community college.  Thankfully, the college is close by, but we only have one car and the combination of bus / train takes forever to get there.  She's considering online classes for next semester.  I assumed the classes were live, but they're not.  I'm concerned that she won't learn as much from recorded classes, but am open to the idea.  If you taken recorded online lecture classes, what did you think?  Thanks so much.

[snowbeltmom]

My kids have gotten a lot out of their online classes, even if they weren't live. However, if you plan on using the online classes for college credit at a 4 year school, you should investigate whether the 4 year schools on your child's list will award credit for them. Many colleges will not grant credit for online classes.

[EKS]

The online classes at our CC don't look any different from the regular sections on the transcript.  I don't see how a four year school would know what type of class it was.  

[Sunshine State Sue]

The online classes at our CC don't look any different from the regular sections on the transcript.  I don't see how a four year school would know what type of class it was.  

Same here.  OTOH, I highly recommend in-person classes.  Online classes probably work for some students, but mostly I have found the quality of the instruction to be inferior.

 

I am copying and pasting from this thread about our experience with online CC classes:

 

We are blessed that dual enrollment is free at our CC for homeschoolers in 10th-12th grade.  Ds will have accumulated 60+ credits by the time he graduates in the spring.  Here is a list of online course he has taken at our CC (online mostly due to scheduling constraints or being closed out of in-person classes):

Critical Reading and Thinking (decent teacher)

Biology Lab

American Literature to 1865

Intro to Chemistry (terrific teacher)

Pre-Calculus Algebra (virtually non-existent teacher)

Fundamentals of Music (virtually non-existent teacher)

 

With the possible exception of Chemistry, all the classes were inferior to an in-person class with a decent teacher.  The Literature class in particular was absolutely ridiculous when it came to class "discussion".  The math and music courses had all homework, quizzes, and tests (except for the math final) online graded by the computer program.  The teacher had an easy paycheck moving the grades from the textbook software to the college website.  The teacher taught nothing.

 

[Teachin'Mine]

Online courses may be indicated as such by the section number (class number).   Read the back of the college transcript, and it may be outlined there.  Most four year colleges, not in-state state universities,  are going to want to see the course syllabus before awarding credit, and it would clearly state that it's an online course.

 

Ann, maybe you can look through the course offerings and find some which meet only once a week or so.   Some colleges offer hybrid courses which meet less often and also have an online component. 

 

Another idea to accommodate the one car is to have her schedule her classes for the same days.  Then on Tues and Thurs, or whatever, she can be dropped off in the morning and picked up at the end of the day.  During her free time there, she can study, get involved in clubs, volunteer, whatever.  If she doesn't want to stay on campus until she can be picked up, then she could take public transport back home.   Live classes are worth the scheduling and transportation hassles.

[EKS]

OTOH, I highly recommend in-person classes.  Online classes probably work for some students, but mostly I have found the quality of the instruction to be inferior.

 

:iagree:

 

My son took one "hybrid" class, which meant that he had a one hour class once per week where the instructor answered questions and had them work in groups.  But the actual instruction consisted of reading the book and then answering questions and doing problems online.  So, really, no instruction.

[Teachin'Mine]

Just like just about everything, hybrid classes vary.  Dd's hybrids were regular class lectures/participation and never met for as short as an hour; they were longer classes than non-hybrid classes.  Ann, your daughter can meet with her advisor there and ask for suggestions.

[elegantlion]

I took all online courses last year and am on week 3 of on campus courses this year. 

 

PROS to online classes

 

can be done at any time

a nice transition to working on a college schedule

no commuting costs

 

CONS

 

check transfer ability (mine is a 4 year university, so that wasn't an issue)

not as much communication with other students

need to really read syllabus weekly to stay on top of assignment due dates

because it's not in class, I'm starting to see how some assignments online were busy work to check accountability

not as much communication with professors

 

I'm glad I did online classes. I made it a point to contact the instructor and sort of introduce myself, I used office hours to visit in person with a couple. Some instructors seem more adept at the online format than others. One instructor gave weekly discussion points and it created a bit of class community. Others did nothing to facilitate the community component. Since these were general studies classes, it wasn't a huge deal to me because I had other priorities last year. Each instructor sets up the class differently, make sure you understand what that professor wants - one had quizzes due on Wednesday instead of Friday like the others, it threw off some students for the first quiz. 

 

I would like ds to do an online class before college just to get used to the pace. As for me, I'm finding my on campus classes to be easier because there is participation in class. There doesn't seem to be as much busy work in the grading. It's harder because I have to commute 30 minutes and actually sit in class for 80 minutes. I signed up for T/Th classes  so I only had to go in twice a week. It makes the transition easier. 

 

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Might also look at evening classes. I had some in my masters program that were only once or twice a week for three hour or 90 min sessions. Wouldn't be ideal for all subjects or students, but wasa good fit at the time.

[Sunshine State Sue]

Online courses may be indicated as such by the section number (class number).   Read the back of the college transcript, and it may be outlined there.  Most four year colleges, not in-state state universities,  are going to want to see the course syllabus before awarding credit, and it would clearly state that it's an online course.

Our CC transcript shows no indication of online.  Some of the syllabi clearly state the class is online.  Some do not specifically state that the class is online but are written to include both online and in-person information.

 

Ds applied to 2 in-state private and 1 out-of-state public and no one asked for a syllabus.  He was granted 33 credits or more at each.

[Teachin'Mine]

Just checked dd's transcript, and no indication which classes were online.   I look up so many things, and now I have no idea where I got that from. 

 

That's great that the colleges were so generous with transfer credit!  For dd it will be very limited and syllabi are required.

[hillfarm]

IMO, some subjects and some instructors lend themselves to online classes better than others. Currently, dd is taking a PC Applications (required) class online. I would strongly prefer that all dd's classes in her major would all be live and in person, but I don't mind if she does these general requirement classes online. However, I do agree with most others here, in person is best. Online may be a good choice to help alleviate schedules from hell or avoid nasty instructors, perhaps even to pick up a summer course while you will be traveling or to clear some basic requirements out of the way.

 

Although she has had several great online classes in the past, this current one is kind of a pain, in that the instructor doesn't seem to have organized it very well. There are multiple assignments, located in multiple sections of the website. It is fairly tough to find everything that needs done. The work itself is easy, just navigating the pages that is difficult.

 

Another consideration for us is the fact that our power and internet supply is a bit shaky here at home. We live at the end of very long rural power and phone lines, so if there is a storm, or if there is a problem with a pole, line or transformer anywhere along the line, then we do without until it is fixed. That is another reason why I would only agree to some of the less critical classes online. We have prepared a boilerplate type of explanation that she sends to the online instructors at the beginning of each online class, to let them know in advance that if she disappears suddenly, that it might not be her fault and that she is definitely willing to make up any work missed due to these situations that are completely outside our control.

[regentrude]

The quality of online classes varies greatly, so no blanket answer is possible.

For any lecture components, it really does not matter all that much whether the class is online or live, but for any interactive components such as discussions and recitations for problem solving, there will be a difference.

 

Also, it is important to examine what kind of feedback will be given. If a computer grades problem assignments based on a final answer, that is far inferior to receiving feedback from a live grader who evaluates the problem in its entirety and can give feedback on correct procedure. Anything essay based should be evaluated by a live instructor and feedback given - a course where all feedback comes from peer evaluations is inferior.

 

I would always prefer live classes for my students, but I see no problem with hybrid classes where lectures are online and recitations and discussion sessions are live.

I am currently in the process of developing and piloting an online lecture component for the class I teach. Students will still have in-seat recitations with live instructors in the classroom, because that is where face-to-face interaction with faculty is most important. An online lecture can provide roughly the same experience as a live one, and in some cases can have even advantages such as closed captioning and the ability to stop and replay. Any interactive components in online form will not provide the same experience as a live one.

[chiguirre]

T had an online math class (prealgebra boot camp, so probably 8-9th graders for the most part) that did an excellent job of using the Blackboard tools to have an online recitation. Each kid could volunteer to use the mic and writing tools to solve the problem on the virtual whiteboard. Of course, it had a fixed meeting time. But, IMHO, college classes could be set up this way at least as easily as middle school classes. There's no longer any need for students and teachers to be in the same physical space as long as they can all connect to an online classroom at the same time. It would be so much easier for working adults to attend an online recitation than to have to get to a physical one. The prealgebra instructor also teaches in a CC. If she could handle the tweens and teens in a virtual classroom, I'm sure she could do the same with adults.

[regentrude]

T had an online math class (prealgebra boot camp, so probably 8-9th graders for the most part) that did an excellent job of using the Blackboard tools to have an online recitation. Each kid could volunteer to use the mic and writing tools to solve the problem on the virtual whiteboard. Of course, it had a fixed meeting time. But, IMHO, college classes could be set up this way at least as easily as middle school classes. There's no longer any need for students and teachers to be in the same physical space as long as they can all connect to an online classroom at the same time.

 

That is not my experience.

In order to mimic what is going on in my physics recitations or my Learning Center, first of all every student would need a tablet and stylus (it is impossible to work physics problems effectively on a keyboard, since large amounts of sketches, graphs, and equations are required). We would need a software that would make it possible for multiple users to work on the same problem in the same virtual whiteboard space. I am not aware of the existence of such software.

Plus, there needs to be a lot of space on the virtual board. If I write out a solution to one problem perfectly, without making any mistakes or false attempts, it fills an entire page or board, which is the space that must be seen at once, not in small portions. Students working that problem will need a lot more space.

Essentially, the virtual room has to mimic a classroom that has large blackboards on 3 sides of the room, with students working in groups on the board, correcting each other and adding to each other's problems.

 

I have not see a model like this piloted anywhere. The attempts at online recitations I have seen turned out to be failures.

 

 

 

[Mom22ns]

Our CC offers online classes to homeschoolers for about 1/4 of the price of in-person classes. There is no distinction between online classes on the transcript or in course numbers. We have checked all the classes my kids have considered taking with the registrars at their potential 4-year universities and know what will and won't transfer. 

 

That said, we still elect to take some classes in person that are available online. There are some classes that lend themselves very well to online format. 

 

Reading ElegantLions description of her online class experience at the 4-year University very much mirrors ds's experiences at PaHS this year. One class is extremely interactive with a great deal of community built in through required posting and comments. One is far less so. Both have multiple places he must look every day for assignments. These are different between the two classes.

 

It seems that being an online student is an exercise in attention to detail. As long as she can handle keeping track of the details, staying focused without the classroom to help, and the class lends itself to an online environment (read not Physics :), then I think it is a good option to replace a bad commute.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

That is not my experience.

In order to mimic what is going on in my physics recitations or my Learning Center, first of all every student would need a tablet and stylus (it is impossible to work physics problems effectively on a keyboard, since large amounts of sketches, graphs, and equations are required). We would need a software that would make it possible for multiple users to work on the same problem in the same virtual whiteboard space. I am not aware of the existence of such software.

Plus, there needs to be a lot of space on the virtual board. If I write out a solution to one problem perfectly, without making any mistakes or false attempts, it fills an entire page or board, which is the space that must be seen at once, not in small portions. Students working that problem will need a lot more space.

Essentially, the virtual room has to mimic a classroom that has large blackboards on 3 sides of the room, with students working in groups on the board, correcting each other and adding to each other's problems.

 

I have not see a model like this piloted anywhere. The attempts at online recitations I have seen turned out to be failures.

Your class sounds wonderful. And not at all like my experience with college physics.

[emzhengjiu]

After some lengthy conversations, my daughter and I have decided that she will take live classes as long as the classes can be scheduled on the same days.  So far, I don't see any hybrid classes listed, only recorded lectures.   I'm disappointed, but we both feel she would miss too much great information with online only classes.   Recorded classes have a place, but maybe later for her.

[G5052]

Yes, it is good that you're going to start with face-to-face and go from there.

 

I work for two different community colleges, both with online components.  

 

One is very loose.  The quality varies widely because the online standards are minimal.  Online classes are reviewed for completeness against the state scope-and-sequence, but not for effectiveness, being up-to-date, use of a variety of media, etc.  My oldest is taking online Spanish this semester, and it is very well done.  I knew that though ahead of time.  No live classes, but her mix of textbook materials, YouTube videos, and different ways of having the students interact with the materials is superb.  She says up front that online Spanish is not recommended if you have never studied a foreign language with a grammar-based approach before.  She also had a self-evaluation quiz at the beginning where that type of thing was made very clear and where she gave all the in's and out's of online language learning very clearly.  Others?  I've heard of a history course that is all text-based, basically read this, write about this, do this quiz.  Not especially engaging.  There's also little coordination between the content of different professors who teach the same class online.  So you have to know what you're headed for if you register for online at that college.

 

The other one has a very large online program, one of the largest in the U.S.  Online course are designed by a team of subject matter experts and online learning specialists, and are on a cycle of review so that they are constantly updated. Professors are hired to monitor and grade courses that have been fully developed and tested.  And their courses show it.  I work in their course development section and teach some of the short courses they do for professors, and I'm in awe of the quality I've seen.  They know what they're doing.

 

Studies have shown that solid online courses with motivated learners result in the same outcomes as good face-to-face classes.  But not in every subject, and not every online course is that way.