NON-AoPS PreAlgebra suggestion requested....

[AEC]

'In which, AEC finally admits that DS is not a carbon-copy of himself'.....

 

Background:

 

We did Mequon and then SM through 5B, including WB, then IP, & sprints & CWP & I'd make extra practice pages now and then.  DS (now 12) did quite well.  His arithmetic of all flavors is fluent and his mental math is quite good (much better than his peers...he enjoys finding situations where he can show that off).

 

I loved the sense of discovery and problem-solving focus of AoPS, so we dug into AoPS Pre-algebra.  It has not gone well...despite repeated coverage, going slowing, working thorugh examples together, etc.  I think the central issue is, DS12 is just __not happy__ with the idea of not knowing how to do something and poking at it till he figures it out. 

 

This is not an 'I love puzzles' kid...this is an 'I love process/rules' kid.  I'd hoped that, with exposure, help and time he'd warm up to it.  He's hasn't.  I think I need something much more 'when you see this, do that' based.  I want him to have some sense of 'why' and 'what this means', but I think for him that needs to come after he already knows how to do it, not before.

 

 

Given that, what would you suggest?

 

Dolciani?

Jacob's?

Something else?

 

 

thanks!

 

 

-andy

 

 

 

[wapiti]

Dolciani's Prealgebra, An Accelerated Course (1985 or 1987 or maybe 1992 - I haven't seen the 1992 but it's probably similar)

 

Jacobs starts off gently but it's really an algebra 1 course.

[Erin]

:blush:  

I know it's not sexy, exciting, or even cool, but we like Saxon here... 

[Tess in the Burbs]

We have enjoyed Derek Owens Prealgebra. You can buy it, not just do online class

[pink&bluemommy]

We are using Math-U-See Pre-Algebra and I still love Mr. Demme.  We've used it since the beginning.  I gave my daughter the option to switch to something different or stay with math-u-see and she chose to stay.  I'm an engineer (so lots of math education) and I have still learned things along the way.  And it all just makes sense.

[FriedClams]

:blush:

I know it's not sexy, exciting, or even cool, but we like Saxon here...

We love it too. We do puzzles and thinking games along with it, but we really enjoy Saxon.

[BlessedMom]

You might take a look at Horizons.

[HSinNH]

DD11 likes Dolciani. Plain pages, no clutter, straight to the point.

[Crimson Wife]

A month ago, I would've suggested Singapore DM 7, but we've had issues with the program not working as well as it had appeared to.

 

We're starting over Algebra 1 and my options have been narrowed down to Dolciani and Saxon.

[Lori D.]

Three very straight-forward, traditional Pre-Algebra programs:

- Tablet Class (Pre-Alg. thru Alg. 2)

- Lial's Pre-Algebra or BCM (Basic College Mathematics -- also a Pre-Algebra)

- Horizons Pre-Algebra

 

Next year, when ready for Algebra 1, you might want to switch to:

- Jacobs (Alg. 1 and Geom.) -- both were well-loved by DS#1, who very much enjoyed Miquon and Singapore in earlier years

- Dolciani (Alg. 1 and Alg. 2)

 

And, if you think Saxon would be a good fit, and want a program that would carry you through high school Calculus), this would be a very good time to start it, as Pre-Algebra is a good year to jump into Saxon.

 

Another thought is to use a more traditional program, and then supplement with AoPS AFTER having covered the topics that the AoPS would be using. That way your student is not having to simultaneously learn concepts AND struggle with problem-solving. The problem-solving may be easier for him (and more enjoyable), if he is already very familiar with and comfortable with the concepts and methodologies that will be required.

 

In addition to the 3 traditional, solid programs I listed above, another program that might work well as a first look before working with AoPS is the Keys to Algebra series (see sample pages to the 10 workbooks in the series here). These are probably too simplistic for your DS's level, but I just throw it out there as another option. The Keys to … workbook series are super gentle and incremental, and are an option for students who struggle with math (which does not sound like your DS's situation).

[8filltheheart]

If you even consider MUS, do not go with the pre-alg level.   I use the alg level as pre-alg and with the background you describe, MUS's alg would be on target.

[Aurelia]

We're trying out Khan Academy's Pre-algebra curriculum with the Key to... books. You might like to take a look. Khan's program isn't just watching videos, there's practice for each skill, if your child sets up an account and uses it.

[JoJosMom]

We have the opposite situation here:  I am the linear one and the short person is the organic thinker.  We used Lial's Pre-Algebra (not BCM.)  It is very direct and clear, and I thought it was wonderful.  The short person described it as "tedious."  It takes one topic at a time, but there is a cumulative review section after each chapter.  And, as a bonus, it can be found cheap at used book sites (Amazon, Alibris, Abe, etc.)  If your DC is more fond of a spiral approach, I would suggest Horizons or Saxon. Good luck!

[SebastianCat]

We are also using Lial's pre algebra and like it so far. We are only 6 weeks in to our school year, but its very thorough.

[SilverMoon]

Lial's prealg for that kid. Hands down. :) It's basically honors prealg. It covers all the necessary arithmetic like any other prealg course, but it throws negatives and exponents into them from the beginning.

[ErinE]

I have Lial's as a supplement to AoPS and I think it's a good text. If it's likely to bother you, be warned: there's instruction on calculator use and problems with a calculator symbol indicating its use.

[AEC]

Lial's prealg for that kid. Hands down. :) It's basically honors prealg. It covers all the necessary arithmetic like any other prealg course, but it throws negatives and exponents into them from the beginning.

 

Humm.  That's not one I had seen mentioned before.  I don't know how I missed it.

 

This is the one?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Prealgebra-4th-Edition-Margaret-Lial/dp/0321567927

 

It looks like there is also a (new last year) 5th ed.

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/prealgebra-margaret-lial/1100507447?ean=9780321845023j

 

and also a 'Prealgebra and Introductory Algebra' version w/ the same author(s)

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=fQEtAAAAQBAJ&source=gbs_similarbooks

 

anyone know the differences?

[....]

My son is using Lial's Basic College Math (this one):   http://www.amazon.com/Basic-College-Mathematics-7th-Edition/dp/0321257804/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1410259785&sr=8-3&keywords=lial+basic+college+mathematics

 

My daughter is using Lial's Algebra 1 (this version):  http://www.amazon.com/Introductory-Algebra-Developmental-Mathematics-Paperback/dp/0321279212/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1410259845&sr=8-8&keywords=lial+algebra

 

I don't know if there is a good version or a bad version.  I was originally going to buy Foresters Algebra 1, but I saw Lial's for 80 cents.   :o   The Prealgebra book comes in between Basic College Math and Introductory Algebra.  However, I really think you could also go from BCM to Algebra.  In fact, my daughter is still at the point in the algebra book where everything has just been review (after doing AOPS pre algebra - although after AOPS, everything else may be review forever).  

 

Just warning you...there is a LOT of stuff on each page.  There's also sections that run down the sides of each page with review problems (in addition to the regular problems/explanations).  The answers are at the bottom (I just cover them with an index card).  All of the odd answers to the end 'o chapter questions are in the back of the book. 

 

The books explain things really well (I think they do) and it's very straightforward.  My right-brained-math-panic-strickened son is doing better with Lial's than any other math we've tried.

 

Edited to add: if you buy a textbook used on amazon, I always check the ISBN # first to make sure I'm not getting something weird - like the teacher's edition (I'm paranoid).  I'm going to see if I can find the thread that said which ISBN #s to look for.

 

Here's a thread (this lady a couple of posts down probably knows much more than I do):  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/148238-help-lial-algebra-which-version/?hl=%2Blial

Here's another thread:  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/410205-lials-bcm-what-all-do-i-need/?hl=lial

When I was reading through the 60,000 threads on Lial's, it looks like people use different editions and it doesn't matter.

[kiana]

Humm.  That's not one I had seen mentioned before.  I don't know how I missed it.

 

This is the one?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Prealgebra-4th-Edition-Margaret-Lial/dp/0321567927

 

It looks like there is also a (new last year) 5th ed.

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/prealgebra-margaret-lial/1100507447?ean=9780321845023j

 

and also a 'Prealgebra and Introductory Algebra' version w/ the same author(s)

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=fQEtAAAAQBAJ&source=gbs_similarbooks

 

anyone know the differences?

 

The Prealgebra and Introductory Algebra course would be a combined pre-algebra and algebra 1 edition for students who have seen the material before and just need a review. I don't think it would be a good choice for a first exposure.

 

Any edition of pre-algebra is fine, really. If you end up with one from the '80s there may be some rare computational techniques which are no longer necessary (the only one I found when I re-read my pre-algebra from then was extracting square roots, plus some outmoded calculator tips) but 99% of the book will be identical to a modern one. 

[wapiti]

Lial's prealg for that kid. Hands down. :) It's basically honors prealg. It covers all the necessary arithmetic like any other prealg course, but it throws negatives and exponents into them from the beginning.

 

Just thinking out loud, is there a prealgebra course that doesn't include negatives and exponents from the beginning?  I thought that was typical, though perhaps my frame of reference is skewed.  (I only have AoPS, Dolciani and Prentice Hall, which all do that.  I have Lial's Prealgebra laying around someplace too though I have never used it.)

[SilverMoon]

Just thinking out loud, is there a prealgebra course that doesn't include negatives and exponents from the beginning? I thought that was typical, though perhaps my frame of reference is skewed. (I only have AoPS, Dolciani and Prentice Hall, which all do that. I have Lial's Prealgebra laying around someplace too though I have never used it.)

*shrug* It sounds like you're not really aiming this at me, but I'm not the best one to ask. Lial was the only one in my house that started that way until AoPS showed up a couple weeks ago for my 6th grader. To be fair, of the prealg level books I have, most don't say prealg on the cover. (BCM, grade 8, etc)

 

Lial prealg includes more than that, but that's just what came to mind when I posted. Jann in TX says it includes the first 4 chapters of alg, while BCM only covers 1 near the end.

[Erin]

Just thinking out loud, is there a prealgebra course that doesn't include negatives and exponents from the beginning?  I thought that was typical, though perhaps my frame of reference is skewed.  (I only have AoPS, Dolciani and Prentice Hall, which all do that.  I have Lial's Prealgebra laying around someplace too though I have never used it.)

 

DD's run-of-the-mill 7th grade public school text (Prentice Hall maybe?) has negatives and at the least the beginnings of exponents--squares and cubes, if nothing else.  I'll poke through it tonight to see if it goes further into exponents.  I know she's doing pre-algebra stuff for sure, though.  

Just today she had 45n+45=90.  It blew her mind because both the co-efficient AND the constant were 45 lol

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

Math Mammoth has released the first half of their pre-algebra.

[8filltheheart]

Just thinking out loud, is there a prealgebra course that doesn't include negatives and exponents from the beginning? I thought that was typical, though perhaps my frame of reference is skewed. (I only have AoPS, Dolciani and Prentice Hall, which all do that. I have Lial's Prealgebra laying around someplace too though I have never used it.)

Yes. Elementary math books often introduce the concepts.

[JoJosMom]

Humm.  That's not one I had seen mentioned before.  I don't know how I missed it.

 

This is the one?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Prealgebra-4th-Edition-Margaret-Lial/dp/0321567927

 

It looks like there is also a (new last year) 5th ed.

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/prealgebra-margaret-lial/1100507447?ean=9780321845023j

 

and also a 'Prealgebra and Introductory Algebra' version w/ the same author(s)

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=fQEtAAAAQBAJ&source=gbs_similarbooks

 

anyone know the differences?

We used the third edition of the PreA text and it was fine.  I have the instructor's edition for the "PreA and Intro to A" text.  It is simply a combination of the two books in one ginormous version. :001_smile: