Soph the vet Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I would best describe myself as Reformed in Soteriology (doctrine of salvation) and Dispensational in eschatology (doctrine of things to come) and I thought I might be alone....until I found this: http://bibchr.blogspot.com/2006/02/what-dispensationalism-isnt.html Hope the link works. Anyone else out there think this way? Just curious. I am not up for any debate. I like his title "Calvidispiebaptogelical" as Evangelical doesn't mean much anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglin'5 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I think you are certainly not alone. I am more hardcore reformed, but my brother-in-law and his wife go to a Bible church where this is the case. They didn't start out that way either. I think it is a growing movement, and it wouldn't surprise me if you eventually outnumbered us more traditional reformed types. My brother and I have a lot in common because of this, and it makes it much easier on our family relations. Especially since we are almost neighbors.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 So I am not the only schizophrenic Christian out there? yea!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in PA Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Yes, that's us, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 This is a tricky one. I agree that it is not always as easy as saying "I am Calvinist" or "I am Arminian". To be honest I don't know where I fall. For example, think of the five points of Calvinism: 1. Total Depravity. I absolutely agree with this. 2. Unconditional Election. Nope, nope, nope. 3. Limited Atonement. Nope, nope, nope. 4. Irresistible Grace. Yes (except for the part about it being limited to the elect but I do believe in regeneration before faith) 5. Perseverence of the Saints. Yes So what does that make me? A 2.5 point Calvinist? A 2.5 point Arminian? :tongue_smilie: So I gave up on trying to "label" myself and I leave it to the holy spirit. I am more of a "red-letter" christian, I guess, than anything else. If it was good enough for Jesus then it is good enough for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Soph, not sure what exactly you want to know so I will just say that these are the things I believe: 1. Doctrines of Grace (TULIP) 2. Believer's baptism - not infant baptism 3. Pre-millenial, dispensational eschatology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 "confine the discussion to the only thing we all should care about: what does Scripture teach?" :iagree: I can't pronounce calvidisp....:D, so I won't claim that label, but we generally just describe ourselves as biblical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 4. Irresistible Grace. Yes (except for the part about it being limited to the elect but I do believe in regeneration before faith) I know Soph did not want a debate so I'm not debating.:D I'm just curious for clarification, Heather, what is regeneration based on if it comes before faith? What is the basis for the HS regenerating someone before they have faith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I think the key thing is that you are still baptist. There are also different pre-mil views...one being historic pre-mil which is not dispensational pre-mil. Historic pre-mil is more Reformed in view (though I'm not up on all the details). There is a friendly debate amoungst the Reformed, "Is a Reformed Baptist really Reformed or are they just Calvinistic?" (I say Calvinistic, not Calvinist, because Reformed Baptists typically can hold to the 5 points but have little to do with anything else that Calvin and the Puritan fathers believed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I know Soph did not want a debate so I'm not debating.:D I'm just curious for clarification, Heather, what is regeneration based on if it comes before faith? What is the basis for the HS regenerating someone before they have faith? Gd's Fore-ordaining Election of His People :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Gd's Fore-ordaining Election of His People :D Well, yes, that's what I would say, too, but since Heather said she doesn't hold to unconditional election I'm curious as to what regeneration would be based on if it comes before faith.:) I really promise not to debate, Heather, I am just trying to understand your position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 oh, well that is quite a muddle then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevadaRabbit Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I would best describe myself as Reformed in Soteriology (doctrine of salvation) and Dispensational in eschatology (doctrine of things to come) and I thought I might be alone....until I found this: http://bibchr.blogspot.com/2006/02/what-dispensationalism-isnt.html'>http://bibchr.blogspot.com/2006/02/what-dispensationalism-isnt.html'>http://bibchr.blogspot.com/2006/02/what-dispensationalism-isnt.html'>http://bibchr.blogspot.com/2006/02/what-dispensationalism-isnt.html Hope the link works. Anyone else out there think this way? Just curious. I am not up for any debate. I like his title "Calvidispiebaptogelical" as Evangelical doesn't mean much anymore. You've found one of my favorite bloggers! His personal blog is here: http://bibchr.blogspot.com/ and he is one of the three (also like-minded) Pyromaniacs at http://teampyro.blogspot.com/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bess Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Yup, this is me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Well, yes, that's what I would say, too, but since Heather said she doesn't hold to unconditional election I'm curious as to what regeneration would be based on if it comes before faith.:) I really promise not to debate, Heather, I am just trying to understand your position. To me it goes hand in hand with Total Depravity meaning I would not, of my own choosing, want to be saved so it MUST be the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit in me and NOT my own faith choosing. But for me, it does not necessarily go hand in hand with election because I believe that regeneration by the Holy Spirit will be open to all in His timing. It is not His will that any should perish. At least that's how the Holy Spirit has revealed it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staci in MO Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Like was said before, I'm a little hesitant on Limited Atonement, but I agree with the other points of Calvinism, and therefore have more in common with the Calvinists than the Arminians. I also believe in pre-millenial, dispensational eschatology, and believer's baptism. I also attend a non-denominational Bible church. Bible churches can be all over the map, but it's been my experience that most hold to pre-mil eschatology and believer's baptism. I'm also seeing more and more hold to a reformed as opposed to an Arminian perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 the traditional Southern Baptist position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 To me it goes hand in hand with Total Depravity meaning I would not, of my own choosing, want to be saved so it MUST be the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit in me and NOT my own faith choosing. But for me, it does not necessarily go hand in hand with election because I believe that regeneration by the Holy Spirit will be open to all in His timing. It is not His will that any should perish. At least that's how the Holy Spirit has revealed it to me. So you believe in Universal Salvation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinag Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 delete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinag Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Soph, not sure what exactly you want to know so I will just say that these are the things I believe: 1. Doctrines of Grace (TULIP) 2. Believer's baptism - not infant baptism 3. Pre-millenial, dispensational eschatology This is me, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinag Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 You've found one of my favorite bloggers! His personal blog is here: http://bibchr.blogspot.com/ and he is one of the three (also like-minded) Pyromaniacs at http://teampyro.blogspot.com/. Pyromaniacs- this is our homepage! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 As to the original question...;) My Reformed journey started with just holding to the 5pts. Since then, I have gone further over to the "dark side" and am now Covenantal and post-millenial as well.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglin'5 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Yep me too. Are dispensational Baptists reformed? I would say yes, and no. There's reformed and Reformed. But hey you guys just need to look at the watch going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.... As to the original question...;) My Reformed journey started with just holding to the 5pts. Since then, I have gone further over to the "dark side" and am now Covenantal and post-millenial as well.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 So you believe in Universal Salvation? I'm not sure what you mean but in essence I believe that salvation is open to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I'm not sure what you mean but in essence I believe that salvation is open to all. I think what she was asking was do you believe that all people will eventually be saved? If we must be regenerated before we have faith and salvation is open to all, then it would follow that all people must be regenerated at some time or another. That would be universalism. That was actually going to be my next question: Do you believe that the Holy Spirit will regenerate every person? (BTW, Heather, you know me well enough from FIAR that I hope you understand that I'm not being antagonistic at all. I'm really just trying to get a handle on your system of theology.:)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 In answer to the OP, yep, that is us! :) I used to read Dan's blog all the time, but just have so much that I read all the time now. Here is my favorite online pastor (he actually baptized my dd and dh last year.) http://www.salvationbygrace.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I think what she was asking was do you believe that all people will eventually be saved? If we must be regenerated before we have faith and salvation is open to all, then it would follow that all people must be regenerated at some time or another. That would be universalism. That was actually going to be my next question: Do you believe that the Holy Spirit will regenerate every person? (BTW, Heather, you know me well enough from FIAR that I hope you understand that I'm not being antagonistic at all. I'm really just trying to get a handle on your system of theology.:)) Well, I'm definitely no theologian but my "system of theology" goes something like this...God loves us (all of us). He does not wish that any would perish. Unfortunately, we love sin and would not choose God on our own. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in us that causes us to even want to choose God's way over our own way. But, because we have free will (which does not supercede the sovereignty of God...He has allowed us in His sovereignty to have free will because he does not want puppets to worship Him), we can choose to walk away from the truth, like the rich young ruler. So do I believe all will be saved? No. Many people will still choose sin over God. But do I believe that God has "limited" the number of people who will be saved? No. It is open to all, just at different times (through the work of the holy spirit, not simply a recited sinner's prayer). Back to the OP's question: does this make me partially calvinist or partially arminian or none of the above? I don't know and it doesn't much matter to me. What matters is whether or not I am following in Christ's footsteps and I am not sure which denomination that is! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Well, I'm definitely no theologian but my "system of theology" goes something like this...God loves us (all of us). He does not wish that any would perish. Unfortunately, we love sin and would not choose God on our own. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in us that causes us to even want to choose God's way over our own way. But, because we have free will (which does not supercede the sovereignty of God...He has allowed us in His sovereignty to have free will because he does not want puppets to worship Him), we can choose to walk away from the truth, like the rich young ruler. So do I believe all will be saved? No. Many people will still choose sin over God. But do I believe that God has "limited" the number of people who will be saved? No. It is open to all, just at different times (through the work of the holy spirit, not simply a recited sinner's prayer). Gotcha...just to clarify: regeneration actually equals salvation; you can't have one without the other. So one could not be regenerated and not also be saved. Maybe my confusion of your position comes from a mix up on the definition of regeneration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Gotcha...just to clarify: regeneration actually equals salvation; you can't have one without the other. So one could not be regenerated and not also be saved. Maybe my confusion of your position comes from a mix up on the definition of regeneration. We have different definitions of regeneration so I can definitely see how that caused some confusion! :D ETA: I do feel blessed however, that despite our theological differences we are still sisters in Christ and get to spend eternity together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie in CA Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Well, I'm definitely no theologian but my "system of theology" goes something like this...God loves us (all of us). He does not wish that any would perish. Unfortunately, we love sin and would not choose God on our own. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in us that causes us to even want to choose God's way over our own way. But, because we have free will (which does not supercede the sovereignty of God...He has allowed us in His sovereignty to have free will because he does not want puppets to worship Him), we can choose to walk away from the truth, like the rich young ruler. So do I believe all will be saved? No. Many people will still choose sin over God. But do I believe that God has "limited" the number of people who will be saved? No. It is open to all, just at different times (through the work of the holy spirit, not simply a recited sinner's prayer). Back to the OP's question: does this make me partially calvinist or partially arminian or none of the above? I don't know and it doesn't much matter to me. What matters is whether or not I am following in Christ's footsteps and I am not sure which denomination that is! :D :iagree: I also agree with you that we are all sisters in Christ and we certainly want everyone to believe in Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 We have different definitions of regeneration so I can definitely see how that caused some confusion! :D Sticking my nose into the conversation, but I'm curious... How do you define regeneration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 Sorry, I was gone all day and shocked to find there are four pages for what I thought would be a short thread. I really just wanted to see if any other Reformed types thought dispensationally about eschatology, that's all really. I trust the Word of God, all of it and have studied, listened, debated, wrestled with much over the 17 years of being born again and this is where I'm at in the process right now. I could not read page 3 of the posts due to "the server is too busy...blah,etc." so I'll try to go back and read more later. Thanks for everyone's posts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 :iagree: I also agree with you that we are all sisters in Christ and we certainly want everyone to believe in Christ. :iagree: Amen to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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