getting real about a child's conflicting limitations

[Student Mommie]

OK, so it's time for me to get real.  Is there any way that I can do very intense dyslexia remediation with a young kid with ADHD?  Am I going to have to resort to medicating him a few hours a day-- or just wait till he's older, even though early intervention is supposed to be most promising?  Or are there some tricks to get him self-motivated enough to hyper-focus on the intense duration of work that is needed...  now he does want to become a good reader, but he also gets tired like anyone and it's just plain hard to keep up the motivation when you are in the thick of the work.  I know there are curricula that are more "fun" but at the end of the day... dyslexia remediation is hard work.

 

This is not a child who can be consistently motivated by rewards.  He doesn't often have something he really wants (like a toy) so there is nothing amazing or consistent I can use to dangle as a carrot.  

 

(I am considering using the iPad as a motivator because I cannot think of anything else, but i'm not sure if too much daily ipad will just exacerbate his daily life symptoms... we are currently on an iPad break because i suspected it was just feeding his addictive personality and he was obsessing.)

 

(I'm also thinking of researching what Asians do.  i don't know what countries, but i remember reading about some asian countries where apparently kids hyperfocus on studying for tons of hours every day from young childhood, since universities/jobs are so competitive.  surely some of those kids have ADHD and somehow are learning discipline.)

 

[Crimson Wife]

We are going to be trying a 4 hour dose of Ritalin for my youngest DD. I've run through the entire list of suggestions from our biomed dr. (who wrote an entire book about natural treatments for ADHD) and she's still experiencing symptoms. I don't like the idea of using a pharmaceutical but I don't know what else to try. I had a long conversation with the psychiatrist this past Monday about the pros and cons of various ADHD medications. She felt that if the main goal was just to get DD through a few hours' worth of seatwork, a short duration stimulant was the way to go.

[Crimson Wife]

Also, there is some interesting evolutionary psychology theory on Americans as being uniquely prone to ADHD due to the fact that most of us had ancestors who voluntarily immigrated from far-off countries, typically at considerable personal risk. The folks who were restless, adventurous, and a bit impulsive set off for America while their more cautious and sedate relatives stayed behind in the Old World.

[PeterPan]

We are going to be trying a 4 hour dose of Ritalin for my youngest DD. I've run through the entire list of suggestions from our biomed dr. (who wrote an entire book about natural treatments for ADHD) and she's still experiencing symptoms. I don't like the idea of using a pharmaceutical but I don't know what else to try. I had a long conversation with the psychiatrist this past Monday about the pros and cons of various ADHD medications. She felt that if the main goal was just to get DD through a few hours' worth of seatwork, a short duration stimulant was the way to go.

Dude, they have 4 hour ritalin?   :hurray:   

[PeterPan]

Hey Superlotto, fill in your sig awesome woman!  We can't remember all the ages on your kids!  :)  

 

How young are we talking here?  And the dyslexia *and* the adhd are diagnosed by a psych or is one assumed and the other official?  And how long as a session can this dc do?  Can they do 5 minutes?  10?  Depending on the age, that might be all that is realistic.  My dd did not get a dyslexia label, but she did not slide smoothly into reading.  In her case there were working memory deficits and the need for a LOT more repetition.  The working memory deficits held her back from sounding out, so she never did.  We used SWR, so we put the words onto flashcards after we spelled them together and then drilled them to automaticity.  I'd have her go to her card box and pull out a section to drill through.  It just took a few minutes, but we did it MANY times a day.  That was when we got our breakthrough.

 

My ds on the other hand probably is not going to struggle to get a dyslexia label.  We'll see, but that's my guess.  The blessed child can't discriminate vowels and is on the slow path, oy.  With him he *can* focus a lot longer, but even so we do short sessions, more in the 10-20 minute range.  That's basically double to triple what my dd could do at the same age (5) and even then it's not enough to break through his problems with any speed.  So for him, I'm just going to look to add sessions.  No marathons, just another short session and another short session and keep adding as he has tolerance.  It's summer and he's not officially K5 yet, so I haven't started doing that.  In the fall when we buckle down we probably will.  

 

Ok, I'm trying to think how to say this, but do you know why this particular dc is de-spunked?  My dd has been like that at times, and there's usually a reason.  Sometimes digging for what is causing that dynamic helps.  

[PeterPan]

Also, there is some interesting evolutionary psychology theory on Americans as being uniquely prone to ADHD due to the fact that most of us had ancestors who voluntarily immigrated from far-off countries, typically at considerable personal risk. The folks who were restless, adventurous, and a bit impulsive set off for America while their more cautious and sedate relatives stayed behind in the Old World.

I sort of tuned you out at first because you said evolution, but that's really hilarious (and possible!) when you think about it.  It's clearly genetic, at least in a chunk of cases, and yeah I WOULD THINK that some of those explorers were the adhd, impulsive, fearless ones of their generation, lol.  What a hoot.

[Ottakee]

We started meds when one dd was 7.  It made a HUGE difference.  She gained over 2 years of academics in 6 months.  Wish we would have done it sooner.  If it helps, and makes their life easier, why not try it?  Yes, there are risks to the meds, but carefully monitored, I feel they are less than those of poor self esteem, lower level academic progress, stress for the child who IS trying, etc.

[Crimson Wife]

Dude, they have 4 hour ritalin?   :hurray:   

 

DD is going to be trying Methylin chewable 2.5 mg. She'll take it after breakfast right before her school starts. It should wear off by the time I pick her up (her kindergarten class will be 3 hrs. 50 min). Then I'll feed her after she gets home. Hopefully that will minimize the appetite suppressive effect, which is the big concern that I had with using a stimulant since she's on the petite side.

[Student Mommie]

Well, from everything I've read about remediation, it seems the child needs TWO HOURS+ of remediation a day.  two hours+ of dyslexia study and reading work!!  and that's not counting remediation for dyscalculia, dysgraphia.. I got to prioritize the issues somehow.  so when people talk about ten minutes here and there, it's just not feasible.  (especially not when a child has transition issues-- no way i can spread it out throughout the day.)

 

Ottakee, did you need to keep going with the meds indefinitely?  Or did she "learn" to focus after experiencing that state?

 

Should I try the old test of giving caffeine to see if he responds with focus?

 

Such tricky issues to juggle.  He is already extremely short and thin, it will be bad to risk stunting his growth...

[Lecka]

Superlotto -- how old is your child?  If your child is younger, it can take less time.  This is because of the catch-up progress thing.... it is in Overcoming Dyslexia.  But the short version is -- a younger child is less behind, and doesn't need to spend as much time to catch up.  An older child is more behind and has more to make up.  

 

Also, if you work through summer and do a little (it doesn't have to be a lot!) on weekends, that makes a huge difference.  I am in favor of working through weekends anyway, b/c my son is a forgetter, until he really has things down.  

 

As far as the risk of stunting his growth, here is what people I have known have done.  They continue to monitor the child's size, they work to give them lots of snacks and food, they give them even more food at times they are not on the medication (weekends, evenings).... and then if it happens, they take their kids off the meds for a while.  So look into this more by all means -- but I know of two people who have had an issue like this and gone off the meds.  One went off for several months, like 6 months, her son gained weight during that time and grew, and then he went back on the medication.  For the other person, I am not aware of them going back on it later, but I don't know.  But ---- my understanding is that if this worst-case scenario occurs, there is a solution.  Otoh I have known of many more people who are worried about it and monitoring it, but whose kids do stay on their growth curve.  

 

For my son, I never thought he had ADD/ADHD.  But, his 2nd grade teacher thought he had ADD/ADHD.  She did all her ADD strategies and they helped my son in her class.  They are all appropriate for him.  But when I agreed (with many misgivings from myself and more from my husband) to allow the home/school questionnaire -- low and behold, he doesn't have ADD/ADHD, according to school.  The school psychologist told me that medicine is not an option for him, it would not do anything for him.  It just takes him a while to do some things, but it is not b/c a lack of focus where medicine would help it. 

 

It is not like you have two choices -- 0 or 2 hours, though.  If he is young and makes good progress -- 45 minutes a day might be very reasonable.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Neither of my kids is capable of sitting through 2 hours of Barton each day. 

 

I agree with those upthread, don't fret the 2 hours.  We don't do 2 hours.   Some days we only do 20 minutes.  Some days we do 45.  A few times we have made it an hour.  But when I committed to a minimum of 20 minutes a day, and we scheduled it to happen at the same time every day, and we do it at the same time every day, and the kids KNOW our sessions won't be extremely long, and they don't have an option not to do the session but I will not be piling on more and more they are so much more engaged now.  I know which areas trip them up so I make sure we have more time on those days to work on that particular issue.  This is easy with Barton but I don't know other systems that well so I don't know how easy it would be to isolate certain things to work on without disrupting the flow.

[Student Mommie]

Hello!  My child is 7.  

 

By the way, his teacher said it takes him three times as long to do anything as most other kids.  She does say he has a major attention issue, but in addition to that he is just plain slow at processing the work he is doing, slow at writing, slow at even orally producing an answer.  Hmm... i wonder if this means medication is kind of pointless anyway.... this is all so confusing!  i wish i could afford a comprehensive evaluation and recommendations!

[Heathermomster]

Super, DS was tutored by a highly experienced reading professional for 45 minutes, 3 days per week.   I have read where Moms have used Barton 30 minutes per day.  For the dyscalculia, maybe spend 30 minutes max with RB materials and Dynamo Math.  Manage the expectations that you place upon yourself.  

 

When DS was 2nd-4th grade, I was very reserved about my son's chances because the reading came so slow.  By 5th grade, I had a shazaam moment where DS just became easier, and then I realized that he could learn with the right teaching and accommodations.  I underwent a massive paradigm shift.  I always knew he was extremely intelligent but to see him start to blossom was amazing.  

 

Try to get a handle on the ADHD.  Build up slowly if you must with the Barton and aim for RB.  Spread everything out in the day and enlist your spouse if you can.     

[Heathermomster]

I was told that my DS had attention issues as well.  The NP balked at that.  NP testing demonstrated that DS tests gifted with grapho-motor issues that significantly affect his output and processing speed scores.

 

Does your DS enjoy listening to audio books?

 

ETA:  Start saving $$ now and get the NP testing when you can afford it.

[Student Mommie]

He LOVES audio books.  Gets totally enraptured by fiction (I have not tried nonfiction audio).  Interestingly enough, he does not multitask, he doesn't do anything but listen.  He'd like to do it endlessly for hours, but I cut the cord so he'll sleep.  (He won't start listening earlier because of his transition issues / forgets how much he likes something issues...)  Sometimes if he is listneing in the car, when we arrive at our destination I will have to park for as long as possible so he can just keep listening.

 

Does this mean something?

 

--

 

by the way-- I think he may actually have ADHD for a few reasons.  he actually is described by our relatives as having a motor, he is go-go-go the entire day.  he has the typical ADHD type social issues where he gets too overexcited and doesn't stop play when others want to.  etc.

 

 

I was told that my DS had attention issues as well.  The NP balked at that.  NP testing demonstrated that DS tests gifted with grapho-motor issues that significantly affect his output and processing speed scores.

 

Does your DS enjoy listening to audio books?

 

ETA:  Start saving $$ now and get the NP testing when you can afford it.

 

[Ottakee]

My daughter is still on the meds.  We have tried a time without them and the difference is so dramatic that we have decided to continue.  She notices it as well.

 

If he is in school, you could ask the school to do an evaluation if he is really struggling.  Those are free but might take a while to get done but at least it would give you a baseline.

 

As to growth issues, we use Dexedrine but have had no growth issues related to the meds at all so it is not a given thing for all kids.

 

Has he had a full physical?  I ask as our doctor (pediatric psychiatrist) would not start meds until we had blood work done, an EKG, etc. to test for any other underlying issue or pre-existing conditions.  With one dd she found that she has anemic and had thyroid problems.  She was still ADD but those other things needed to be addressed as well and for some kids, treating the other issues eliminates the add symptoms.  Also, if there is any snoring, restless sleep, etc. I would see about a sleep study as for some kids, sleep issues are the cause of their lack of attention, slower processing, etc.

[Storygirl]

It would help if you would list what curriculum you will be using. Chances are someone here has used it and can give you some very specific advice about implementing it. Different reading issues will also be helped best by different remediation options. What specifically are his issues?

 

Meds are not the only option for treating the symptoms of ADHD. Have you tried any relaxation techniques? Some non-medical things will actually trigger the same chemical processes in the brain that the meds do. Our pediatrician mentioned this and recommended a book called Sitting Still Like a Frog, which comes with a CD.DS loves it. If you do the relaxation techniques regularly (every morning, perhaps), it can help establish a calmer baseline overall. We just started DS10 on OT yesterday, and the OT mentioned the same thing, that she can teach us some non-medication techniques that will help stimulate the body's production of serotonin, dopamine, etc.

 

I should mention that DS is medicated now, and that we think it is a good choice for him, but it took us a long time to get to that point, and we sought out multiple opinions from several doctors. We are combining the meds with other techniques. Have you discussed ADHD with your pediatrician?

[Lecka]

My son did not have those additional issues.  It really seems to just show up with reading and writing, and it can show up orally but only in certain situations... rote answer kinds of situations.  But he does not seem to have trouble focusing or paying attention.  He could appear that way but I thought it was that reading and handwriting could be very hard for him.  His teacher thought he had greater ability and was not focusing.  But there were no issues outside of him having trouble doing independent seatwork.  He paid attention to the teacher and participated in discussions and things like that. 

 

We have not had a comprehensive eval for my son.  We have had, through the school, speech and OT evals.  Both of these led, through his low scores and our insurance, to him having private speech and OT.  For the ADD/ADHD, we filled out a questionnaire and the teacher filled out a questionnaire, and the school psychologist looked at the results.  

 

It was very easy and minimally invasive for us to get that ADHD questionnaire through the school.  I did have to ask for it.  I wanted more, I wanted the IQ testing and stuff, but the school psychologist declined to offer it to him b/c he didn't think it was necessary.  Also his OT eval came back with some low scores and he thought that that was the thing to address.  They also would rather give informal accommodations at his school, and I am fine with that.  I know there are advantages to having a paper trail, but I don't care.  Informal is fine with me, just as long as he is successful in school.  

 

Since my son also takes longer with everything -- I think this is a reason to get started and try hard to figure out a routine to get some practice in.  If it takes a lot of practice/repetition then it takes it, and he needs to be engaged, too.  

 

I think you should see what you can get through school, though.  Maybe even if you can't get everything you would like, you can get some helpful information.  That is what we have had.  So it is not the best, but it has been good enough for me.  I think we have got a good school and I was pleased with the school psychologist, even though he did decline to do the full testing.  He told me thinks the full testing is difficult/disruptive so there are drawbacks to taking him out of class to do it, which was a good point in his case, but also -- let them not do it.  So, whatever, I guess.  

 

The hardest time is the beginning, though, and getting a routine or getting used to getting some work in.  

 

A lot of the problem for my son (no attention/focus issues in general as far as I know) is that the work is so hard, and it is hard to get him to where he could give any right answers.  Then I ended up (eventually) giving him a lot of positive attention, praise, small rewards for just making an effort.  I also gave him times when if he copied me then he was trying and that counted, if it was too hard (he was shutting down, etc) and couldn't answer a question directly.  Iow he was doing a lot of escape or diversionary tactics b/c reading was hard and he had prior experiences of reading being hard.  This is something where you are not going to be able to explain verbally to a 7-year-old -- just try to get little bits of success and then say how good they are doing.  Don't push them when they are tired.  End on something they can do a little easier.  

 

But I do think early intervention matters and is important.  But as I said before -- for a younger child, and he is still young, if you do summers and weekends, then you do not have the same "2 hours a day" situation as an older child who may be getting help only in school or through formal tutoring.  It is interesting, too, a lot of times you look and "2 hours a day" really means "2 hours 3 times a week plus a little homework."  That does not work out to 2 hours a day of home tutoring -- that works out to about 45 minutes :)  

 

But I think it is worth it to give him every chance of success and if that includes ADHD medication or asking at school -- I would say to go for it.  I feel like -- do it now or do it later.  And if you wait until later, it will take longer per day to catch up, or he will spend longer at a lower reading level where it is hard to find reading practice materials that will be cool to him.  

 

I also think, since I did a lot of 2 minutes of reading or 5 minutes of reading, to get practice in, as well as 10 and 15 minutes, that it is worth a try, maybe.  It is not as bad to transition to it if he knows it will be short and if he ended on a good note the previous time.  But it is hard to get to there, but maybe it is still worth thinking about as an option.  Some things were the most frustrating/difficult for my son, and then he truly could not concentrate long.  But at a certain point I knew what those were and how to not get hung up on them, and how to tell a bad attitude from being tired from giving an extreme effort.  

 

But -- I think if there is a chance that medication can help make this process easier.... I feel like, go for it.  It is so hard anyway, I would take away any obstacle possible.  I say this as someone where I have not had to actually confront the possibility, but with it being so hard, I feel like I would want to do anything to make it easier for him.  

[Storygirl]

I agree with a lot of what Lecka said. Explore all of your options. I know you said on another thread that you had filled out the ADHD checklist previously and did not get a diagnosis. Don't give up! If you think there is an issue, keep plugging away until you get it diagnosed. Our pediatrician told me multiple times that he didn't see ADHD in my son before we pushed for further evaluations. Now he has diagnosed him with a severe case. Ask your doctors to screen him.

 

We were very hesitant to medicate. Very. But we finally came to think of the meds as a tool that can help DS be his best self, with the greatest chance of succeeding in life. We didn't want to withhold from him something that would be beneficial. Many families come to a different conclusion; deciding whether to medicate or not is hard. Sometimes all those other things that our children have going on inside them can block their ability to learn, and once they are addressed, the learning becomes much easier.

[PeterPan]

Hello!  My child is 7.  

 

By the way, his teacher said it takes him three times as long to do anything as most other kids.  She does say he has a major attention issue, but in addition to that he is just plain slow at processing the work he is doing, slow at writing, slow at even orally producing an answer.  Hmm... i wonder if this means medication is kind of pointless anyway.... this is all so confusing!  i wish i could afford a comprehensive evaluation and recommendations!

I'd encourage you to see what evals you can get done through the ps rather than assuming.  You know you have problems and challenges, but if you could get the right words for this it would help you.  My dd has issues with transitions, but honestly what you're describing is a bit more and more typical of my ds.  You can have low processing speed and not have it be adhd.  You can have problems learning to read and not get an adhd label.  You can be go-go-go motor mouth and not get the label you're expecting.  It would be really nice in this situation to get an eval, even an imperfect one.  And who knows, you may luck out.  Around here some of the ps do really fine, thorough evals.  I've talked with two people in two counties in our state who got terrific evals.  So try to see what you can get.  There are some hoops you'll have to jump through, learning how to write the letter to officially request the eval and get them to follow the law, but it will be worth it.  

 

Also, the suggestion to see your ped is good.  They can run EF and spectrum screening tools and check to see where he is developmentally.  

[Heathermomster]

He LOVES audio books.  Gets totally enraptured by fiction (I have not tried nonfiction audio).  Interestingly enough, he does not multitask, he doesn't do anything but listen.  He'd like to do it endlessly for hours, but I cut the cord so he'll sleep.  (He won't start listening earlier because of his transition issues / forgets how much he likes something issues...)  Sometimes if he is listneing in the car, when we arrive at our destination I will have to park for as long as possible so he can just keep listening.

 

Does this mean something?

 

--

 

by the way-- I think he may actually have ADHD for a few reasons.  he actually is described by our relatives as having a motor, he is go-go-go the entire day.  he has the typical ADHD type social issues where he gets too overexcited and doesn't stop play when others want to.  etc.

I ask about the audio books because not all kids enjoy them or learn easily that way.  If your DS can narrate back to you what has been read aloud to him, I consider that to be a very good thing.  When your child struggles to quit listening, he may be hyperfocusing.  

[Pen]

We did intensive dyslexia remediation when my son was 9--it was 2 hours, but I don't think would have needed to be anywhere near that long when he was 7.  And there is no way that it could have been done in long sessions--and also several short sessions spread through day were more valuable than single longer sessions.  I'd say maybe 2 of 15 minutes are worth one of 45 minutes.  Also we built up to it a bit gradually, and also he had mostly one program (highnoon) but also a bit of a couple other things to make it less boring. The only other seatwork done at the same time was a limited amount of writing (half hour daily), and math (half hour daily). He did also get some learning via audio books and also DVDs and hands-on experiences.

 

So far as I know my son does not have ADHD, but a lot of the strategies for working with ADHD are nonetheless helpful. Transitioning is helped a lot by explaining in advance what will be happening. For example, that we will have a timer set and while it is going he will work on x, then when it stops he will have a break until ___, then the timer will go again and so on. Sometimes what is done in the breaks would be something that might be counted as "school" but if it is relaxing, it is still good for a break from whatever is difficult at the time.

 

We do not do any movies however educational during the day unless it is a sick day.

[Storygirl]

It would help if you would list what curriculum you will be using. Chances are someone here has used it and can give you some very specific advice about implementing it. Different reading issues will also be helped best by different remediation options. What specifically are his issues?

 

 

I'm quoting myself, because I think this is important, but it may have gotten lost in the rest of my post. Have you selected a curriculum? What exactly is he having trouble with in his reading?

[Incognito]

I have a child that is a bit like the one you describe.  Have you read anything by the Eides?  I suggest you look around their websites/youtube videos/etc.

 

FWIW, I think I catch a bit of frustration and panic in your posts about this.  I understand, having been there.  However, I'm still there but am sitting in it with evaluations and a little more time, and I realize that the big things for reading struggles are to just keep plugging away doing good reading habits and skills.  They just need way more repeats than other kids.  There isn't a super cure (except perhaps vision therapy for some).  At 7, you keep on with direct phonics instruction.  And you have to be able to relax and be proud of them - tension and disappointment make it hard for them to succeed.  If you are still in this place at 9, it seems to me that the shift is to more whole word instruction (this is from my internet experience, so take that as you will).

 

We really enjoy audiobooks and read alouds.  My child has a vast vocabulary, and I am confident that someday it will translate into being able to read the words too.  For now, we were also cautioned to focus on the strengths my child has while we gently work with the struggles.  

 

Are you homeschooling?

[Student Mommie]

Hello!

I have not finalized a curriculum. Well,I did do a ton of work with seeing stars with him but he hated it, hated trying to visualize the letters, and it was extremely boring even though I tried to spice it up.

 

Now we are only doing fluency practice by rereading very simple passages.

 

I am leaning towards logic of English foundations since it is mostly games. We need something fun...so he will be engaged. He will go crazy with Barton, unless I resort to medicating him I suppose.

 

I am starting homeschooling this year!! I really want to expand and have him spend a lot of time with his strengths...But I don't really know what his strengths are.

 

 

Thanks incognito for your mentoring. I really love to hear the perspective of someone further along the journey...

[imagine.more]

superlotto, while 2 hours a day of remediation might be an ideal I can assure you most parents of dyslexics don't do that and still make fantastic progress. My 12 year old DD is very ADHD and dyslexic and we do 1 hour of Barton 5 days a week. I have just been trained in Orton Gillingham myself so I can take over her tutoring independently and in my course (taught by an O-G fellow) we were not told 2 hours at all. She recommends 1 hour tutoring, 5 days a week if possible and definitely no less than 2 days a week. Since I'm homeschooling obviously I can do tutoring every day in O-G but will definitely only do 1 hour. I am adding in more language arts through Memoria Press' read-aloud and enrichment curriculum so my daughter can get the vocabulary and story exposure she needs orally without straining her in asking her to read more. So if you totaled up our language arts it'd likely cover 1.5+ hours a day but it'll be broken up and during read-alouds you can change position and let your son build with legos, play with cars/trains quietly, do a puzzle, stand on his head, or just snuggle with you as the fancy strikes him. Also, the woman I was trained by requires all her tutors to take a 5-7 minute non-educational game break sometime during each 1 hour tutoring session. That sounds sensible to me so we'll be doing something similar at home with basically 50 minutes of instruction and then 10 minutes of break alternating the whole school time. For a 7 year old you could even do 45/15 minutes, kinda like Finland does with their schools. 

 

Btw the tutoring group I was trained with tutors even 16 year old illiterate dyslexics and you'd be amazed the progress they make with even those much older kids with just 1 hour a day of O-G. At 7 you are doing fantastic to already have identified the dyslexia and be remediating his reading intensively one-on-one. I'd suggest focusing on finding his 'currency' this summer as far as games and activities he enjoys and build those into his school day at regular intervals to keep him going and just stay super positive with him. Even as adults we all sit there and think "okay, if I finish the dishes quickly I can catch Downton Abbey at 8pm" or "if I just make it until nap time with the kids I can relax and have a coffee" lol! Those natural rewards can often be even better than physical or edible rewards. 

[Student Mommie]

So many great ideas here!  Thanks!
 

I am really going to focus on finding the currency.  Could you give me some examples of what that might be?  I think he really enjoys when i chase him and pretend to be a monster.  (I hate it as I don't like to move, sigh, but a woman's gotta sacrifice...)  Maybe something like that can be put in to the schedule after intense work sessions?  Any ideas of something that doesn't involve me (so i can get a mental break)?

 

I was actually kind of settlign on this idea that i tell him we have 1 hour of work to do, but if he focuses and works hard it is only 45 minutes worth, and he can use the extra time to play the ipad.  Because he is so distractable and impulsive, i'm going to need to pull out the big guns for him to stay on task.  I just wish i could think of something appealing he can do independently as an alternative to the ipad because i HATE screentime games for him!  But that's exactly why the ipad could work so well for this motivation, BECAUSE the ipad is so bad for him and he can get so addicted and obsessed.

 

 

 

superlotto, while 2 hours a day of remediation might be an ideal I can assure you most parents of dyslexics don't do that and still make fantastic progress. My 12 year old DD is very ADHD and dyslexic and we do 1 hour of Barton 5 days a week. I have just been trained in Orton Gillingham myself so I can take over her tutoring independently and in my course (taught by an O-G fellow) we were not told 2 hours at all. She recommends 1 hour tutoring, 5 days a week if possible and definitely no less than 2 days a week. Since I'm homeschooling obviously I can do tutoring every day in O-G but will definitely only do 1 hour. I am adding in more language arts through Memoria Press' read-aloud and enrichment curriculum so my daughter can get the vocabulary and story exposure she needs orally without straining her in asking her to read more. So if you totaled up our language arts it'd likely cover 1.5+ hours a day but it'll be broken up and during read-alouds you can change position and let your son build with legos, play with cars/trains quietly, do a puzzle, stand on his head, or just snuggle with you as the fancy strikes him. Also, the woman I was trained by requires all her tutors to take a 5-7 minute non-educational game break sometime during each 1 hour tutoring session. That sounds sensible to me so we'll be doing something similar at home with basically 50 minutes of instruction and then 10 minutes of break alternating the whole school time. For a 7 year old you could even do 45/15 minutes, kinda like Finland does with their schools. 

 

Btw the tutoring group I was trained with tutors even 16 year old illiterate dyslexics and you'd be amazed the progress they make with even those much older kids with just 1 hour a day of O-G. At 7 you are doing fantastic to already have identified the dyslexia and be remediating his reading intensively one-on-one. I'd suggest focusing on finding his 'currency' this summer as far as games and activities he enjoys and build those into his school day at regular intervals to keep him going and just stay super positive with him. Even as adults we all sit there and think "okay, if I finish the dishes quickly I can catch Downton Abbey at 8pm" or "if I just make it until nap time with the kids I can relax and have a coffee" lol! Those natural rewards can often be even better than physical or edible rewards. 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I would hesitate to use "focus" too often.  My kids ended up hating that word from their time in school.  I used different terms, like "engaged" or "involved" or "dedicated" etc. just so they wouldn't bring any emotional baggage with them to the lesson.  Seems small but it did help.

 

See if you can do some parts of your lesson while your dc sits on a medicine ball or walks around in a circle or something.  If you can incorporate some whole body movement it might help.  DD runs out to swing for 10 minutes after about 30 minutes of Barton.  DS bounces on a mini trampoline.  Then we do another 20-30 minutes of Barton, depending on the lesson.  There is a flow to the lessons so I know where there is a good breaking point for them and they know from day to day where we will be stopping without having to look at a clock but it took a bit to get into that rhythm.  It really helps, though, because both kids know that once they reach a certain point in the lesson (different point for each kid since they have different areas that trip them up) we will be stopping for a break or stopping for the day, depending on what we are covering that day.  They know I will not be piling a lot more on if they get through everything quickly so they are a lot less likely to drag their feet.

[Student Mommie]

///I would hesitate to use "focus" too often. My kids ended up hating that word

 

 

Good point! My child already hates the phrase good attitude from to much lecturing....oops.

 

 

///See if you can do some parts of your lesson while your dc sits on a medicine ball or walks around in a circle or something.

 

Hmmm.... He is always moving, dangling limbs, jumping up. Even wobbling his head as he reads, which frankly totally boggles my mind as he has tracking issues. And I don't stop him. Lately I read that some remediation methods like slingerland force the kid to sit still with feet on the ground etc, otherwise the child's brain won't be absorbing the motor patterns of the letters and words etc if they air write them. Actually that's what got me started thinking about medicating son.

 

 

///They know I will not be piling a lot more on if they get through everything quickly so they are a lot less likely to drag their feet.

 

Hmm. So maybe I should just have very predictable rhythm and forget the ipad motivation. Still, he always "forgets"that it is in his best interests to do something fast or whatever. Gets to caught up in the fun of the moment. Even if he is focusing and engaged in something, he will get up after every line and do a celebration dance, which makes the whole thing last three times as long as otherwise. Even with my reminders that we will celebrate after, etc.

[OneStepAtATime]

Understood completely.  Hard to get the focus and the forward momentum needed when they are constantly hopping up.  And meds may end up being the most effective means.  I have friends who medicate and friends who don't.  Depends on the child, the circumstance, the right meds paired with the right child at the right dosage, etc. as to whether it is successful when they do medicate.  It is hard to find that balance.

 

FWIW, I have found that forcing my kids to sit absolutely still nets nothing but tears and frustration.  They are working so hard not to move that they lose all focus whatsoever.  I don't know about the program you are using so I can't make specific suggestions but with Barton there are times they need to sit at the table and move the tiles, or write something or point to something.  At those times they need to be at the table but thankfully I can keep those times relatively short.  Sitting on a medicine ball has sometimes been helpful during just sit at the table times.  There are other times when we can move around a bit more, or review using games and large body movement or write in really big letters on our big dry erase board.  It helps.  Setting a timer helped with one child but the other would panic.  He associates timers with being timed at school and because he couldn't write quickly he got crucified for not passing timed tests even though he knew all the answers and could have answered verbally without an issue.  Having a clock nearby and knowing that our lessons usually only take a certain amount of time helped him but it took time to get into that rhythm.

 

This will be a process, trying to find what works best for you and your child.  You might start with really short lessons, like 30 minutes, with an agreement that while the timer is ticking there is no jumping up for a victory dance, but once it dings he can get up and run around with you for a few minutes.  Build up more time as he and you get used to the process. 

 

I suggest you make sure that the area you are working is lacking distractions.  I know some that have a very specific spot in the house for reading remediation and nothing else happens in that spot.  No distractions.  A friend in another state converted a closet.  Her child loves the special secret room they go into....

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

The main thing is consistency for both of you.  Start at the same time every day so he and you get into a mental and physical rhythm.  Pick a time of day when you and he are both more focused.  For DD it is early in the morning.  Expect some resistance and frustration.  Keep it positive even if you are frustrated inside.  It may take weeks to really establish a routine for this but if you are consistent and he knows this time is not negotiable, it is important, things will hopefully smooth out.  Don't be afraid to back off on a lesson, though, if you are both struggling and not making progress.  Take a time out and come back later or even pick up again the next day after you have had time to review things again and maybe try a different approach.  Or if you are both really tired, then just do a lite fun review for the day.  Bashing your heads against walls won't help much.

 

 

[imagine.more]

I'm not sure what games he'd enjoy during breaks but you can make the actual lesson time a bit more interesting/fun. Like to review phonological awareness instead of using plain colored tiles use different colored monsters/matchbox cars to represent the phoneme sounds. You can also review sight words by writing them on a hopscotch and have him call them out as he hops on them. Or write them on a jenga game and as he pulls a jenga piece out he has to say the sound/syllable. 

 

 

[LizzyBee]

My youngest has severe dyslexia + APD, ADHD-combined type, and SPD.  She had severe speech deficits and some motor delays.

 

The year she was 5, she was in no way ready for academics. We did SM Early Bird and tried to learn the alphabet using large laminated letters. When she was 6, I told her she had to learn how to read because that's what first graders do. We did very short but consistent lessons. Her reading ability after a year was no better than at the beginning. When she was 7, we started LiPS to get her ready for Barton Reading and Spelling (an OG based reading program). She also had a neuropsych evaluation, and when preparing the paperwork, I realized that I couldn't think of one book that she could read from start to finish, including Dr. Seuss books.

 

As soon as she passed the Barton screening, we switched from LiPS to Barton. When she was 9, the gap in her learning was becoming ever more evident. She wouldn't listen to books on CD because her APD made processing difficult and she felt lost and confused. So she was falling behind with common knowledge, not just skills. I despaired that she would ever read fluently.

 

And then one day, she picked up a Boxcar Children book and fell in love with reading. She saw the Ramona movie and couldn't stop talking about it, so I checked out every Ramona book on CD from the library. She couldn't get enough.

 

We live in a state that requires annual standardized testing. We do the WJIII because of her learning deficits. At age 12, she was within normal parameters on every subtest. Her lowest score was spelling at the 39th percentile. She scored above grade level in many reading and math skills.

 

Early on, there were days when she would slump against me, mentally exhausted, after 5 minutes. OG reading instructions rewires the brain of a dyslexic person to create new reading pathways, and it's exhausting.  But consistency is key. For us, it was slow and steady, but she got where she needs to be. We did work up to the point where she could do an hour long lesson, even an hour and fifteen minutes on a really good day.  But it took a good while to build up to that.

 

If she had been in a school setting and we had to pace her reading tutoring to keep up with the school's standards, I don't think she could have done it.  There are families who manage it, but it wouldn't have worked for my daughter.  Honestly, I think you're the only person who can discern the pace your child can handle.

 

Regarding meds, we tried Concerta and it was a beautiful thing. It was as though for the first time, she could hold a thought in her head long enough to act on it. It didn't change her personality at all. But after a month or so, she refused to take it because it bothered her stomach. We tried a few other meds, but they didn't work as well. One of them made her go from Tigger to Eeyore, so we took her off that one quickly.  We could have gone back to Concerta and forced her to take it, but she's extremely thin, so we couldn't take the chance of her losing weight. She's currently 5'5" and weight 80 lbs, so she seriously has no fat to spare. Perhaps she would have progressed faster if we kept her meds, but I'm satisfied with the outcome at this point, so I have no regrets.

[Storygirl]

You might experiment a bit with things like the medicine ball and other activities when you are NOT doing academics at first. For example, when you are doing a readaloud for fun or playing a board game during non-school time. The reason I suggest this is that these kind of things do not work for my son, who has both ADHD and SPD (sensory seeking). All that extra stimuli distracts him from focusing instead of helping him to focus. He needs to do these things at a time when we are not trying to do schoolwork. If you try it first during a fun activity, it will give you an idea whether or not it will work during the academic time.