Dante's Divine Comedy--how long to devote to this?

[Nancy in NH]

My son is interested in reading Dante's Divine Comedy.  For those who have tackled this, how long did you devote to it?  Also, if you had any favorite supplemental resources that aided your study, I would love to hear about them.

Thanks!
Nancy in NH

[jhschool]

DS read Inferno and part of Purgatorio.  Took a few weeks.

He discussed it in a book club with two really nice leaders.

I think they took a few weeks only--no more than 1 month.

 

[regentrude]

The Divine Comedy is going to take up however much time you wish to devote. After all, there are people who spend their entire lives studying Dante..

DD read the Inferno and most of the Purgatory. She spent about 10 weeks to 3 months.

 

As additional resource, we used the Teaching Company lectures

Dante’s Divine Comedy by. William Cook and Ronald Herzman

 

There is a free lecture series from Yale

http://oyc.yale.edu/italian-language-and-literature/ital-310

It's an upper level course which we tried, but found too technical.

[Dana]

Any suggestions of good translations?

[regentrude]

Any suggestions of good translations?

 

I asked this questions a few years ago:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/258793-dante-best-translation/

 

and received fantastic input from people who really know Dante and not only compared translations in detail but also gave suggestion on which Cantos to focus. That thread is so valuable!

 

We have chosen the Mandelbaum translation for the kids; I have read the Ciardi translation.

 

[Dana]

I asked this questions a few years ago:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/258793-dante-best-translation/

 

and received fantastic input from people who really know Dante and not only compared translations in detail but also gave suggestion on which Cantos to focus. That thread is so valuable!

 

We have chosen the Mandelbaum translation for the kids; I have read the Ciardi translation.

 

Thanks! That'll help!

 

Looking at link...I miss EM. Really liked her opinions.

[Nancy in NH]

Thank you.  I guess I'll plan on devoting a semester to it, unless, of course DS's enthusiasm fizzles.  Already have the Teaching Company videos in my cart.  I'm sure we'll need the help!

[TeaTotaler]

Ds and I read and discussed Inferno over a month (I think).  We also used the TC lectures.

Another resource -  Ascent to Love: A Guide to Dante's Divine Comedy by Peter J. Leithart.

 

[Nancy in NH]

Is there a preferred translation suggested by the professors for the Teaching Company lectures?

Nancy

 

The Divine Comedy is going to take up however much time you wish to devote. After all, there are people who spend their entire lives studying Dante..

DD read the Inferno and most of the Purgatory. She spent about 10 weeks to 3 months.

 

As additional resource, we used the Teaching Company lectures

Dante’s Divine Comedy by. William Cook and Ronald Herzman

 

There is a free lecture series from Yale

http://oyc.yale.edu/italian-language-and-literature/ital-310

It's an upper level course which we tried, but found too technical.

 

[katilac]

An almost sure winner is to have the student write their own levels of hell. I remembered this assignment well from high school English over 30 years ago, and my kids got into it as well. 

 

It can be dead serious or played for laughs. I really wanted them to do a Home Schooler's Hell, with the lowest circle reserved for those who ask "but what about socialization?" but they went the serious route, and doled out some very harsh punishments. My main requirement was that, like Dante, they put some thought into matching the punishment to the crime. 

[Kathy in Richmond]

My daughter enjoyed the multimedia approach of the DanteWorlds website when she was reading the Divine Comedy.

 

She's very visual, and this site has all kinds of clickable images with explanatory notes, an artists' gallery, audio recordings of significant verses (in Italian), and study guide questions. I worked through the Inferno with her, but left her alone for the other two volumes. With these helps, she was able to make it through & enjoy Purgatory and Paradise on her own.

[Nancy in NH]

Wow, this is an awesome resource, Kathy!  Thanks so much for sharing.  I think my ds will love this.

 

 

My daughter enjoyed the multimedia approach of the DanteWorlds website when she was reading the Divine Comedy.

 

She's very visual, and this site has all kinds of clickable images with explanatory notes, an artists' gallery, audio recordings of significant verses (in Italian), and study guide questions. I worked through the Inferno with her, but left her alone for the other two volumes. With these helps, she was able to make it through & enjoy Purgatory and Paradise on her own.

 

[Nancy in NH]

Interesting assignment!  Thanks for sharing.

 

An almost sure winner is to have the student write their own levels of hell. I remembered this assignment well from high school English over 30 years ago, and my kids got into it as well. 

 

It can be dead serious or played for laughs. I really wanted them to do a Home Schooler's Hell, with the lowest circle reserved for those who ask "but what about socialization?" but they went the serious route, and doled out some very harsh punishments. My main requirement was that, like Dante, they put some thought into matching the punishment to the crime. 

 

[katilac]

Oh, and this video is not to be missed! Info about The Divine Comedy, sung to Blondie's "Rapture." My kids still occasionally break out singing this: 

 

[Dana]

I asked this questions a few years ago:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/258793-dante-best-translation/

 

and received fantastic input from people who really know Dante and not only compared translations in detail but also gave suggestion on which Cantos to focus. That thread is so valuable!

 

We have chosen the Mandelbaum translation for the kids; I have read the Ciardi translation.

 

 

Thanks much for the link to the thread. I've made notes from it and am giving up on the decision and getting both Mandelbaum and Ciardi. Boy can pick his preference, I'll read the other, and we'll discuss differences :)

[Beth in Mint Hill]

Thanks much for the link to the thread. I've made notes from it and am giving up on the decision and getting both Mandelbaum and Ciardi. Boy can pick his preference, I'll read the other, and we'll discuss differences :)

 

I like this idea! :)  Those were the two translations that I zeroed in on, too.  When I was studying this with a class of 9th graders it was fun to pick out passages that we liked in the English and then play that part in Italian, from the audio files here:

http://etcweb.princeton.edu/dante/pdp/

Just to have the experience of the original poetry. And another very inspiring thing--look up youtube clips of Roberto Benigni (star of Life is Beautiful) reading Dante to audiences.   

 

If one is going to buy just one book, I recommend people buy this one by the poet, Ciardi:

http://www.amazon.co...o/dp/0451208633

Because all three parts in one nice volume--I just couldn't bear having my students stop with the Inferno, and miss Paradise!! Why would anyone want to leave their students in the depths of hell?  The last lines are SO beautiful.

 

[Dana]

I like this idea! :) Those were the two translations that I zeroed in on, too. When I was studying this with a class of 9th graders it was fun to pick out passages that we liked in the English and then play that part in Italian, from the audio files here:

http://etcweb.princeton.edu/dante/pdp/

Just to have the experience of the original poetry. And another very inspiring thing--look up youtube clips of Roberto Benigni (star of Life is Beautiful) reading Dante to audiences.

If one is going to buy just one book, I recommend people buy this one by the poet, Ciardi:

http://www.amazon.co...o/dp/0451208633

Because all three parts in one nice volume--I just couldn't bear having my students stop with the Inferno, and miss Paradise!! Why would anyone want to leave their students in the depths of hell? The last lines are SO beautiful.

 

Thanks for the audio link!!!

Ds is excited about the books. He wanted to read the Inferno and if that's all he does, that's fine with me, but I did want him to have access to the whole book.

 

The Mandelbaum also is in one volume. Both look neat :)

[orelbeilinson]

I spent 20 hours on it in an Overview of Italian Literature course, and about 30 in an AP English class.

[Gooblink]

My 10th grader is using the Mark Musa translations in conjunction with the VP Omnibus study sessions (offline, self-paced) and is finishing up Paradisio. He has been working through them since March or so, and really enjoying them. I'd say he devotes 4-6 hours per week between reading and evaluation activities. We've taken a couple week-long breaks in these months, but I'd say he's got 40-50 hours invested, thus far. 

 

He really likes this translation and it's also helped him develop a deeper appreciation for poetry. 

[Gooblink]

Double post, sorry.

[Michele B]

I recommend the Dorothy Sayers translation; I realize it is not a popular choice. She uses terza rima which gives it a very nice flow. Even if you do not use her translation, her notes are invaluable. Ms. Sayers was catholic - sharing the religion of the author provides insights that may have been neglected by others who tend discount his religion in favor of his political machinations. When I got my English degree, I am sure I scoffed at Dante's religious motivations and simply said with so many others, "he put his enemies in hell and his friends in heaven," etc. Dorothy Sayer's notes opened my eyes to the religious and linguistic subtleties throughout this work. I am not saying that one needs to be catholic to "get" this work, but I am saying that a co-religionist provides a unique vantage point. She also offers quotations C. S. Lewis and Charles Williams throughout her work as well. Just something to consider. :)

 

[Beth in Mint Hill]

Thanks for the audio link!!!

Ds is excited about the books. He wanted to read the Inferno and if that's all he does, that's fine with me, but I did want him to have access to the whole book.

 

The Mandelbaum also is in one volume. Both look neat :)

 

Oh great!  I didn't see a one volume version of Mandelbaum when I was looking into it. I loved Mandelbaum's lyrical tone, too. Guess I was just perusing bookshelves in all the bookstores back in 'those days.' Its also very fun to trace and compare the architectonics (which are amazing!) of the three parts of the Comedia. Normally I shy away from too much analysis of a literary work, but you miss so much if you don't look into these kinds of things with Dante!

 

For instance, one of my favorite things to do is compare the last lines of each of the books:

 

Inferno:

He first, I second, without thought of rest

    we climbed the dark until we reached the point

    where a round opening brought in sight the blest

and beauteous shining of the Heavenly cars.

And we walked out once more beneath the Stars.

 

Purgatorio:

I came back from those holiest waters new,

    remade, reborn, like a sun-wakened tree

    that spreads new foliage to the Spring dew

in sweetest freshness, healed of Winter's scars;

perfect pure, and ready for the Stars.

 

Paradisio: 

Here my powers rest from their high fantasy,

    but already I could feel my being turned--

    instinct and intellect balanced equally

as in a wheel whose motion nothing jars--

by the Love that moves the Sun and the other Stars.

 

(these lines are from this edition by Ciardi) 

See the 'stars' motif? One small example of the sorts of things you miss when you own just a copy of The Inferno. No, I am not saying that a student should take the time to read the WHOLE thing their first time around. (A few might!) But the study of this great work in school should simply be a 'whetting of the appetite' for a deeper delving into it when one is older. 

 

Speaking of the world of literature, T.S. Eliot said, "Dante and Shakespeare divide the world between them -- there is no third."

One of the benefits of studying works such as La Comedia is to understand a little more of Eliot's poetry, and the medieval mind, too! I've often thought it would be fun to design an integrated history and literature course on the Late Middle Ages, with Dante's work as a spine. Because the history of the Italian states during the 13th century is so fascinating and entwined with Dante's poetry. Daileader's lectures would provide a nice backdrop (one of the Great Courses)!

 

 

[TCB]

I asked this questions a few years ago:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/258793-dante-best-translation/

 

and received fantastic input from people who really know Dante and not only compared translations in detail but also gave suggestion on which Cantos to focus. That thread is so valuable!

 

We have chosen the Mandelbaum translation for the kids; I have read the Ciardi translation.

 

 

 

I really know nothing about this and am not there yet with dd but I LOVED reading that thread. Thank you so much for linking it, it was wonderful.

[SilverMoon]

I asked this questions a few years ago:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/258793-dante-best-translation/

 

and received fantastic input from people who really know Dante and not only compared translations in detail but also gave suggestion on which Cantos to focus. That thread is so valuable!

 

We have chosen the Mandelbaum translation for the kids; I have read the Ciardi translation.

 

That thread was great. I had DS read the samples and tell me what he thought. He picked Sayers overall and claimed a couple sounded much too modern. LOL

[Nancy in NH]

Thank you all for this ongoing conversation!

[Nancy in NH]

My ds and I have been going back and forth between Ciardi and Mandelbaum.  I hadn't considered discussing the differences.  I like this idea!

 

Thanks much for the link to the thread. I've made notes from it and am giving up on the decision and getting both Mandelbaum and Ciardi. Boy can pick his preference, I'll read the other, and we'll discuss differences :)

 

[Nancy in NH]

The Princeton Dante Project looks great.  Thanks so much for sharing the resource.

 

I like this idea! :)  Those were the two translations that I zeroed in on, too.  When I was studying this with a class of 9th graders it was fun to pick out passages that we liked in the English and then play that part in Italian, from the audio files here:

http://etcweb.princeton.edu/dante/pdp/

Just to have the experience of the original poetry. And another very inspiring thing--look up youtube clips of Roberto Benigni (star of Life is Beautiful) reading Dante to audiences.   

 

[Nancy in NH]

Good to know--I will keep this in mind.  Thanks for the suggestion!

 

I recommend the Dorothy Sayer's translation; I realize it is not a popular choice. She uses terza rima which gives it a very nice flow. Even if you do not use her translation, her notes are invaluable. Ms. Sayers was catholic - sharing the religion of the author provides insights that may have been neglected by others who tend discount his religion in favor of his political machinations. When I got my English degree, I am sure I scoffed at Dante's religious motivations and simply said with so many others, "he put is enemies in hell and his friends in heaven," etc. Dorothy Sayer's notes opened my eyes to the religious and linguistic subtleties throughout this work. I am not saying that one needs to be catholic to "get" this work, but I am saying that a co-religionist provides a unique vantage point. She also offers quotations C. S. Lewis and Charles Williams throughout her work as well. Just something to consider. :)

 

[Nancy in NH]

Your comment makes me wish we could study the history along with it, but ds has to crank out government and economics this year.  Maybe we can squeeze in the lectures, though.  Hmmm…  More to consider.

 

Speaking of the world of literature, T.S. Eliot said, "Dante and Shakespeare divide the world between them -- there is no third."

One of the benefits of studying works such as La Comedia is to understand a little more of Eliot's poetry, and the medieval mind, too! I've often thought it would be fun to design an integrated history and literature course on the Late Middle Ages, with Dante's work as a spine. Because the history of the Italian states during the 13th century is so fascinating and entwined with Dante's poetry. Daileader's lectures would provide a nice backdrop (one of the Great Courses)!

 

[Gooblink]

Over lunch yesterday I told my son, who really likes the Mark Musa translation, about the Dorothy Sayers translation and his eyes lit up. I guess we'll be adding it to our library! :)

[H0MEFree]

The Divine Comedy is going to take up however much time you wish to devote. After all, there are people who spend their entire lives studying Dante..

 

Agree.

 

We did not spend much time on it. Did not feel it really need it, whereas other material did seem more worth deeper study. But your family may decide to put a general timeline such as 2 wks each book or something simlar.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thanks! That'll help!

 

Looking at link...I miss EM. Really liked her opinions.

 

Yep.  She was definitely good for keeping ones game sharp.