Ask an Orthodox Jew

[Momof3]

How do you study Scripture? Do you have any requirements for how you go about it, when you read, what you read, how often, etc.? 

[eternalsummer]

ah, cool!  I went back and read it; sums up Judaism as a whole pretty well, no?  It's interesting how Judaism promotes both intellectual engagement and challenge and rigorous pursuit of understanding/analysis of the various religious texts, but also insists on a quite strict adherence to tradition and a sort of non-rewriting/reinterpreting of the word of god; there's both more preference for precedence and established belief than exists in most protestant churches and more insistence on intellectual analysis than the catholic church (as far as I can tell, anyway).    

[eternalsummer]

Hmm, from Hirsch: "Was Judaism ever 'in accordance with the times?' Did Judaism ever correspond with the views of dominant contemporaries? Was it ever convenient to be a Jew or Jewess?… Was that Judaism in accordance with the times, for which, during the centuries following the Disperson, our fathers suffered in all lands, through all the various periods, the most degrading oppression, the most biting contempt, and a thousand-fold death and persecution? And yet we would make it the aim and scope of Judaism to be always 'in accordance with the times!'"

 

 

[eternalsummer]

I think part of that (tell me if you agree!) is that once you have a certain level of prosperity, or in this case freedom, there is an impulse to relax and not cling as hard to traditional values or the rigid laws that got you through the hard times.

 

The same thing has happened a few times in the US; in the 20s social mores liberalized, but once things got hard during the Depression and WWII, people became more conservative; in the 60s there was relative prosperity, and tradition was rejected again for a certain degree of relaxation.

 

Perhaps once the Jews stopped being persecuted so strongly in Europe (and started to enjoy religious freedom in the US?) there was a similar sense of safety, and thus the Reform movement was born?  I wonder if Orthodox Judaism, or at least adherence to more traditional expressions of Judaism, has had something of a resurgence post-Holocaust?

[eternalsummer]

I think people in our society say "thank you" way way too much, so that it has become meaningless in many circumstances, but:

 

Thank you, for  speaking so openly and kindly and insightfully and patiently about Judaism with me (us).  You may find this funny, but the only women I've ever talked to about religion who have been as delightful as you are to talk to about religion/theology/philosophy were the Mormon missionaries we had come by a few years ago. :)

[Momof3]

Me, personally?

 

I study the weekly Torah portion - some weeks in more depth than others (iow with more commentary).

 

Right now I am working through Pirkei Avos (Ethics of the Fathers - a section of Mishnah that we read from Pesach to Shavuos) - this year I'm using R' Hirsch's commentary & Rabbenu Yonah's.

 

I've just started studying Megillas Rus - which we read on Shavuos.

 

I have a sefer (book, in this context a Torah book, in the broadest sense of the word) that has a little lesson a day focusing on the special qualities of each day of this Omer counting period.

 

I'm reading through a sefer about the Omer period.

 

I'm reviewing halachos and other teachings about the upcoming holiday of Shavuos.

 

I usually have a Mussar book in process - right now one of Rabbi Dessler's .

 

I recite a section of Tehillim each day (most days).

 

I might be forgetting something, but Torah study is at the center of my life - I do it in bits and pieces through my day...

 

 

 

I used to have study partners I learned with regularly and classes I went to, but I have some health issues that have interfered with that, though things have improved a bit & I'm trying to add that back in, but the scheduling logistics are sometimes challenging, especially working around my husband's learning schedule.

 

[He primarily studies Gemara (and the weekly parsha, of course), and he has a Mishna study group on Shabbos]

 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

Each week has its Torah portion (in this case Torah = Chumash) each with its corresponding selection from Neviim (Prophets).

 

The 5 Megillos are each done on a specific holiday [Esther = Purim, Shir haShirim (Song of Songs)= Pesach, Rus= Shavuous, Eicha = Tisha B'Av, Koheles = Sukkos].

 

One should review the relevant halachos before each holiday

 

Men should have fixed time Torah study (even if short) morning and evening.

 

This is very disjointed, I'm sorry... I am getting too tired to think clearly. 

 

I will try to stop in tomorrow, but it is Erev Shabbos, so I will be wrapped up in Shabbos preparations.

I was meaning Orthodox Jews in general, not just you. I should have been clearer. But thank you for answering.

 

Would you say that you (Orthodox Jews again) take the Scriptures 'literally' or more allegorically? Or are their different views on interpretation among different Jewish groups? 

[Momof3]

Everyone.  Of course everyone.

 

Yes, your soul is as much a spark of the divine as mine.... imagine a balloon inflated with helium (only it is a special balloon that will never leak anything out)... if you let go of it, it moves up automatically... unless you put a weight on the end... but even then it still pulls up as far as it can... that is our neshamos... pulling 'up toward G-d...

 

Our challenge is to keep listening to that pull... even when we're tired or in pain... even when the washing machine breaks or money is tight... in a boardroom or a concentration camp or a store or a hospital (as either caregiver or patient), we must struggle to feel that pull... and to use it to elevate everything else... to be holy, to bring holiness into the mundane world and make everything we do, say, eat, work on part of our service to the Divine.

 

...and that is as true for you as for me.

 

Our souls are unique, and we each have our own life circumstances, our own inherent skills and talents... and we each have a unique contribution to make... Jew or gentile...

So then what in essence is the difference between Jews and Gentiles...or the ramifications of the difference, really? Is it solely that God has chosen to set His love upon the Jewish people, to call them His own? Is there any other difference?

 

Another question: Do you see Messiah (you said there will be two?) as bringing *salvation* to the world - or just peace? I imagine the 'challenges and limitations of the physical earth' would be lifted at that point? 

 

And in ushering in the time of peace, do you see a time of war preceding that? Where Messiah would crush the enemies of God (thinking Psalm 2)? Would that be the first Messiah (ben Joseph)?And then the second Messiah (ben David) would actually sit on the throne & reign as King?

[Momof3]

It depends on the context. 

 

Neither approach is 'wrong' in general... there is a time and place for each (or both!)

 

 

This is hard to explain...

 

Each piece of Torah has layers of meaning, layers of interpretation... we talk about the seventy facets of Torah... and the different approaches are like a circle of observers around a large, multifaceted gem... each sees a different aspect, though folks coming from a similar angle will have overlap... but they have to be in that circle, linked together, hand-in-hand-in-hand around the circle.

 

...and each angle of view offers us different insights we can bring to our own lives and observance and understanding of G-d and His Torah.

 

...but each insight is connected back to our mesorah... all the way back to Sinai.

Thank you again for your answers, Eliana. You have a beautiful way of speaking - I love the music of your words! :)

[Katy]

There is no good vs evil, no Satan (in the Xtian sense), no outside power other than G-d.  My battles aren't with a force of evil, they are with my own frailties...and the pull of convenience, or momentary emotion, or fatigue to not do what I know I should... to not struggle to be my best and truest self. 

 

I am too tired tonight to talk about "hasatan"... the prosecuting angel, so to speak... a really fascinating metaphor.. but if there is interest, I could try to come back another time.  [This is another case where the use of what seems to be the same word can be confusing]

 

So...  does that mean your sense of Satan is of a prosecuting angel, created by God to point out our flaws and thereby purify us?  I once saw a documentary on the history of the understanding of Satan (in a literary sense) and it stated something of the sort (though didn't reference sources so I wasn't sure where that came from).

[Juniper]

Not that they need me to point this out, but for many of our Orthodox Jewish friends Shabbat observances have begun. We probably won't hear from them for awhile depending on time zones. :) 

[speedmom4]

Have you read the book, My Jesus Year? It was written by an Orthodox Jew who spent a year exploring Chriatianity through the Bible Belt. It was fascinating not only to learn about Orthodox Judaism but for me to see Christianity through an outsider's eyes. Learning about Christianity eventually led him to a stronger Jewish faith and identity.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0061245186/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1399225414&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40

 

Elise in NC

[Guest submarines]

Hmmm.  What word would you be referring to?  Shul (school in Yiddish, but colloquially synagogue)?  Beis (or Beit depending on your heritage, I'm Ashkenazi) HaMikdash?  That's Hebrew.

 

Yeah, we won't be praying in Yiddish or Ladino or Judeo-Spanish, or Judeo-Greek.  Just Hebrew and maybe a little Aramaic to mix it up... 

 

I was under the impression that Beis is Yiddish, while Beit is Hebrew. Is Beis HaMikdash is just a colloquial way? Thanks. :)

[Juniper]

Kabbalah is the 'hidden' part of the Oral Torah. The word itself comes from the shoresh meaning 'to accept'.

 

The actual study of Kabbalah is reserved those who have spent their lives immersed in the study of Torah and Halacha, and Gemara, who are over 40, and who are accepted by a mentor/teacher who is an expert in this topic.

 

There are references to Kabbalah and Kabbalistic insights in the Gemara and in many traditional commentaries and in discussions of minhagim (customs), some of which have their roots in kabbalistic ideas,some parts of Tanakh are allusions to kabbalistic concepts, and there are now written texts (Sefer Yetzirah is, I believe the oldest - from the 2nd century CE), the Zohar was published in the 13th century, as I recall.), but they are more like notes that only one who understands the topic very, very well can properly understand. ...and without that understanding they can be not only confusing by very misleading.

 

The Zohar, as I understand it from sources referencing it has Torah commentary/explanation & explanation/discussion of cosmological issues.

I have read that it is primarily men who study the Gemara. What is the reasoning behind this? Are there exceptions made? :)

[Guest submarines]

Beis versus Beit is a matter of Sephardic versus Ashkenazic pronunciation.

 

The last letter of the Hebrew alphabet 'tav' is always 't' for Sephardim, but when it appears without its dagesh (a grammatical symbol - a dot in a letter) is a 'sav', pronounced 's' for Ashkenazim.

 

(There are several other letters which are pronounced differently depending on the presence or absence of the dagesh - the letter Beis/Veis  is 'b' with a dagesh and 'v' without, for all Hebrew speakers (though the loss of the distinction is how 'Avraham' became anglicized to 'Abraham')  pey/fey, and chaf/kaf are two others... }

 

There are some vowel differences as well - and modern, spoken Hebrew has dropped a lot of grammatical distinctions... language shifts one sees over generations in other languages happened very, very quickly.  (And the same root doesn't necessarily mean the same thing in modern Hebrew as it does in Tanakh.. but that is an entirely different conversation)

 

Do you mean in modern Hebrew? I do know about the Beit / Veit, pey/ fey, chaf/ kaf, but I have never heard about the Tav / Sav.

 

[eternalsummer]

• ת á¹¯Äw is pronounced [s] in Ashkenazi Hebrew, unless there is a Dagesh in the ת, where it would be pronounced [t]. It is always pronounced [t] in Modern Hebrew. (Compare Shabbos vs. Shabbat, or Es vs. Et.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Hebrew

[Guest submarines]

Gramatically, there are the BeGeD KeFeT letters - beis, gimel, dalet, kaf, feh, and tav - which can have a dagesh (techincally a dagesh kal, a weak dagesh, as opposed to the daghesh chazak, strong dagesh). 

 

The dagesh indicates the hard (plosive) sound, the absence indicates the soft (fricative) sound.

 

The pronunciation distinctions between dalet or gimel with vs without the dagesh are only preserved in a few dialects (frex: some Yemeni communities) - in both case most use the hard sound.

 

...and Sephardic pronunciation uses only the hard sound for tav, whether there is a dagesh or not.

 

Yes, Ivrit (modern, spoken Hebrew) uses a variant of Sephardic pronunciation, but this difference is not modern vs non - it is a regional accent thing. 

 

Really interesting, thank you.

 

[speedmom4]

I have not read the book, but I have read excerpts and reviews

He was raised in an Orthodox home, but certainly during that period of time he was not living as an observant Jew or in accordance with Orthodox hashkafa, and he doesn't seem to have a good understanding of Torah or halacha, and certainly not of hashkafa.

 

...and his process involves violating any number of major prohibitions.

 

For example, I, as an observant Jew, may not enter the sanctuary of a Xtian place of worship, even if services are not occurring at the time (and all the more so if they were).

 

...not to, in any way, disparage his personal experience or his spiritual journey...or the possibly interest of the book to many... but I would recommend not taking his descriptions of Orthodox thought or observant as representative or authoritative

 

.

You are correct that he was definitely not living his Orthodox Jewish faith at the time he was visiting the different Christian churches. I found his observations and experiences so interesting. In the book he claims that the whole experiment brought him to appreciate Judiasm and want to embrace it wholeheartedly. His ignorance of the Torah was lost on me. I would imagine the book might be more interesting for Christians.

 

Thanks!

Elise in NC

[Jasperstone]

Does the Temple need to be built on the spot where the Dome is?

 

If so, then how do you see that happening?

 

Won't that create friction between the Muslims and your nation, and not the peace that Israel is after?

 

I hope I'm not out of place asking that. Please ignore or delete if it is. Thanx

[JenniferB]

What are Orthodox Jewish worship services like? Is there singing, or chanting? What does it sound like? Are the readings done in plain voice or chant? Are there instruments? Is there incense? Is it the same today than 1,000 or 2,000 or more years ago, or has it changed? Is there a calendar of readings? Are there a variety of services through the year, like a calendar of service? Is there anything like holy bread or holy wine incorporated into the service? How long are the services? Do children attend with parents? Is standing the typical prayer position? Is there a message or sermon?

 

I would love to see and hear a worship service.

[YaelAldrich]

Does the Temple need to be built on the spot where the Dome is?

 

If so, then how do you see that happening?

 

Won't that create friction between the Muslims and your nation, and not the peace that Israel is after?

 

I hope I'm not out of place asking that. Please ignore or delete if it is. Thanx

Hi, I'm back.  :seeya:

 

I think it does. I mean that where a bunch of important stuff happened in Jewish history. :)

 

Don't know how it will happen and honestly I don't know if I wanna know as I can't see how it wouldn't get ugly.  

 

By the way, the country of Israel and the religious entity known as Israel are not one in the same.  Israel is not a country run by Jewish law so the leaders of Israel the country  don't necessarily worry/care about that aspect of doctrine although they all know that that piece of property is highly desired by a bunch of peoples for religious and socio-political reasons.

[YaelAldrich]

What are Orthodox Jewish worship services like? Is there singing, or chanting? What does it sound like? Are the readings done in plain voice or chant? Are there instruments? Is there incense? Is it the same today than 1,000 or 2,000 or more years ago, or has it changed? Is there a calendar of readings? Are there a variety of services through the year, like a calendar of service? Is there anything like holy bread or holy wine incorporated into the service? How long are the services? Do children attend with parents? Is standing the typical prayer position? Is there a message or sermon?

 

I would love to see and hear a worship service.

You've heard Eliana answer, "Well, it depends." right?  Well the answer is that it depends.  LOL

 

It depends on which country you are in, the ancestry of the people in the synagogue, the cultural feelings of the people in the synagogue, how much they like to sing, how much time they have to/want to devote to singing/theatrics, and a whole bunch of other stuff (that is the technical term).

 

There are services three times (based on the prayers instituted by the Avos/Avot Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac) daily on most every day of the year - shacharit/shacharis (morning service - applicable times from dawn to about 4 hours of daylight into the day), mincha (around mid-day if you count daylight hours and divide by 12, until almost dark), ma'ariv/arvit/arbit (dark until the next dawn).  Shacharis is the longest of the three at around 40 minutes in an non-Israel based minyan (the word for a gathering of 10 or more Jewish males above the age of 13 plus one day), as little as 18 minutes in Israel (!!) as much as one hour and a drop in other places (slower prayer leaders).  Mincha is a quickie at about 10-15 minutes, and Ma'ariv at about 20 minutes or so.  There are additional prayers on Sabbaths and holidays that are about 15 minutes or so glommed onto the morning prayers.  Also on non-High holiday holidays (Sukkot, Shavuot, Hanukah, Purim, Shemini Atzeret, SImchat Torah), there are the Hallel prayers, all from Psalms (usually sung). There are additional prayers during certain holidays (hoshanas on Sukkot, hakafot on Simchat Torah) that may take up more time as well.

 

Some sing the prayers, some chant the prayers, some mumble the prayers.  Depends on what synagogue you go to.  There are no readings like you might be thinking of (call and response).  There are prayer leaders who "represent" the community during prayers.  They read/sing/mumble the beginnings and ends of some prayers, lead everyone together in others and read/sing/mumble the repetition of the Amida/Shemonah Esrai, the core of our prayer services. There don't tend to be instruments since we don't use/play instruments on our Sabbath.  Those who sing (and can others in singing) are usually appreciated  (unless the make the service go too long! :) ).  No incense either - can't light fires on the Sabbath.  There sometimes is snuff (smeck tabak) though!  Some parts of the service have changed like the tunes to the songs we sing, but most of our prayers are around 2000 years old when we lost the last Temple. We read the Torah on Monday, Thursday and Saturday mornings and Saturday afternoons. The Torah (first five books of the Jewish Bible) are divided up into 56 (?) portions to be read in full on Sabbath  mornings and 1/7 of that on the Monday, Thursday, and Sabbath afternoon.  We also read portions of various books in Navi (the portions of the Bible from the prophets and history of the Jewish people) called the Haftorah on Saturday mornings after the Torah portion is read.  Sabbath prayer services in non Israeli synagogues run about 3-4 hours, in Israeli syns. about 2 or so.  There is no holy bread but Kiddush (sanctification of wine) for the Sabbath and holidays sometimes occurs at the end of evening services in some synagogues.  We have Sabbath bread and wine at our weekly Sabbath and holiday meals (which are several courses and Thanksgiving sized).  Sometimes children attend services, depends on the parents and synagogue's friendliness to children.  We sit and stand during services; only kneeling/bowing on the ground in almost prostration twice a year (Rosh HaShana and Yom Kippur).   And last, sometimes (don't ya love that word) some synagogues have a sermon or message.  More likely in non-Israeli based synagogues, can be given by anyone, but tends mostly to be the/a Rabbi in most places since he gets paid.

 

You can certainly go to Orthodox services if you wish.  I might suggest calling them or finding someone to take you.  If you are in Indiana, I'd be happy to be your guide.

[JenniferB]

Are there any songs or chants posted online?

[Ravin]

Do kosher rules about meat and milk apply to mother's milk for nursing infants who also eat table food?

[YaelAldrich]

Are there any songs or chants posted online?

Oh yeah.

 

Google Chazzanut, cantors for more formal styles, Carlebach/ Reb Shlomo for a hippy interpretation, Sephardic or Mizrachi or Italki for a more Middle Eastern flair.  Shir HaLev is my favorite for teaching others the tunes from an mostly Yeshivish, Ashkenazi, US based style.   I'm sure there is more that I don't know... 

[YaelAldrich]

Do kosher rules about meat and milk apply to mother's milk for nursing infants who also eat table food?

These laws don't apply to children that young.  Human mother's milk is not dairy  - it's pareve (neither dairy nor meat).  None of these type of laws are applicable to children under the age of 3 (some say all the way up to nine).  I don't feed my children of that age meat and milk together (because to me that would be too weird) but I will serve them dairy right after meat (which I won't do for older children nor adults).

[JenniferB]

If anyone has any favorite worship service song links, can you post here? I've looked using key words on You Tube and I'm not sure if I'm hearing service music or folk music or if that's one in the same...??? :D

[YaelAldrich]

If anyone has any favorite worship service song links, can you post here? I've looked using key words on You Tube and I'm not sure if I'm hearing service music or folk music or if that's one in the same...??? :D

http://shirhalev.com/ is my super duper favorite site to send people.  Real live, not professional singers singing Jewish davening (prayers), zmiros (songs) and nigunos (wordless songs).  You get a good sampling of different styles (Sephardi - not all by any means, Chassidic - once again not all by any means - try Googling http://www.modzitz.org/music.htm for the most famous Chassidic house of music, and Ashkenazi).  For Reb Shlomo OBM, try http://www.last.fm/music/Shlomo+Carlebach

[Jasperstone]

Hi, I'm back. :seeya:

 

I think it does. I mean that where a bunch of important stuff happened in Jewish history. :)

 

Don't know how it will happen and honestly I don't know if I wanna know as I can't see how it wouldn't get ugly.

 

By the way, the country of Israel and the religious entity known as Israel are not one in the same. Israel is not a country run by Jewish law so the leaders of Israel the country don't necessarily worry/care about that aspect of doctrine although they all know that that piece of property is highly desired by a bunch of peoples for religious and socio-political reasons.

 

Thank you for that! :)

 

So I suppose then it looks like it will be awhile yet before the Temple gets built.

 

Do you think they have already found the Ark of the Covenant? As I have heard that they have nearly everything in place for setting up the Temple, and I would think that would be the most important piece to go in. I could be totally wrong though. ;)

[Jasperstone]

Double posted

[Ravin]

 

 

For example, I, as an observant Jew, may not enter the sanctuary of a Xtian place of worship, even if services are not occurring at the time (and all the more so if they were).

 

.

 

This is interesting, I didn't know this. So, you couldn't, for example, attend a Christian friend's wedding if it's in a church? What if it was outside but still a Christian wedding service?

 

This also gives new understanding for me to the scene in Fiddler on the Roof where the mother goes to talk to the Christian priest to find out what's going on with her daughter. And now I wonder what other nuances in that movie I'm missing...it's always been one of my favorite musicals.

[JuanitaL]

 

 

...and his process involves violating any number of major prohibitions.

 

For example, I, as an observant Jew, may not enter the sanctuary of a Xtian place of worship, even if services are not occurring at the time (and all the more so if they were).

 

 

 

.

 

This makes me wonder specifically about military personnel. My family has attended Jewish services on installations where numerous religions or denominations use the same building at different times/days. I've actually only been on one installation (that I know of) that has a separate Jewish Chapel.  

 

[Ravin]

This makes me wonder specifically about military personnel. My family has attended Jewish services on installations where numerous religions or denominations use the same building at different times/days. I've actually only been on one installation (that I know of) that has a separate Jewish Chapel.

 

Yeah! I remember at Yokusuka there was a room decked out for synagogue use, but other groups shared the space for non-service meetings (such as LDS Relief Society).

[YaelAldrich]

The area can be a multi-use space but not one designated for non-monotheistic worship.  The crosses, icons, etc are usually removable or cover-able for Jewish use.... 

[YaelAldrich]

This is interesting, I didn't know this. So, you couldn't, for example, attend a Christian friend's wedding if it's in a church? What if it was outside but still a Christian wedding service?

 

This also gives new understanding for me to the scene in Fiddler on the Roof where the mother goes to talk to the Christian priest to find out what's going on with her daughter. And now I wonder what other nuances in that movie I'm missing...it's always been one of my favorite musicals.

I would ask my rabbi for a ruling on what to do.  Sometimes he has been lenient and sometimes strict.  Depends on the situation.

[JuanitaL]

The area can be a multi-use space but not one designated for non-monotheistic worship.  The crosses, icons, etc are usually removable or cover-able for Jewish use.... 

 

Because it's been a couple of years I can't say with 100% certainty - but I don't think any thing was covered - it seems as if that would have been memorable. I kind of think I remember the Jewish items being stored in a type of cabinet - perhaps when the doors were opened they covered/hid the crosses, icons, etc. (Now the memory is going to bother me, I really wish I had either been more observant or knew more at the time to be aware.)

[Ravin]

The area can be a multi-use space but not one designated for non-monotheistic worship. The crosses, icons, etc are usually removable or cover-able for Jewish use....

So the pagans and Buddhists would have to meet in another space? Or not under the same roof? Or is it something that's worked out on a case by case basis, probably with guidelines Jewish chaplains set up?

[YaelAldrich]

No, I mean you couldn't have a Jewish service in a space consecrated for a non-Jewish worship place.  Not in a church/temple/any other space decorated with stuff from those non-monotheistic religions.  Religious space in a military location is in use for many religions but not at the same time.  Am I being helpful?  :huh:

[YaelAldrich]

I can ask my friends who serve as chaplains for more if y'all want.

[Matryoshka]

As Yael said, the issue is a space that has been set aside/dedicated for worship/religious use by any faith that it would be avodah zarah (idol worship) for a Jew to participate in.  (What a convoluted sentence - sorry!)

 

Your follow-up questions points out an assumption neither Yael nor I stated clearly enough: for purposes of evaluating Jewish involvement, Xtianity is not considered a monotheistic religion.

 

I understand why Christianity would not be considered a monotheistic religion and be off the list, but I'm wondering about some of the others below, which are not considered Christian anymore as they do not recognize the Trinity but focus on the oneness of God.  Also, does that mean you'd have no problem entering a Mosque?  What about a place of worship of the Baha'i, or the Sikhs?  Islam, Baha'ism an Sikhism are very strictly monotheistic. 

 

I have never had the location of a wedding be an issue - most of the non-Jewish weddings I've been invited to have been on Shabbos, which is intrinsically a deal breaker, but, no I could not attend a wedding in a church sanctuary.

 

I have sadly (may we all only know simchas, happy times) had issues come up with funerals in cases where my (or our family's) presence would be deeply meaningful to the mourner(s).  I'll give a few examples:

 

A Unitarian Memorial service: There was no public burial component here, the only piece was a memorial (with no religious service) in the Unitarian Fellowship sanctuary.  My presence was very important to the mother (a mentor of mine in high school) and my best friend (who had dated her son for several years).  The son had committed suicide and everyone was shocked and distraught.  I could not enter the sanctuary, but I stood just outside a side door (the place was packed, and I had twin babies with me, so it was possible to do this without making any disruption).

 

The Unitarians as a group are not considered Christian anymore  (there are individual Unitarians that still hold on to Christian beliefs as there is no prohibition, but the Unitarian sanctuary would not , unless it was a very Christian leaning congregation - and, well, Unitarian refers to the belief that God is one and in this tradition if Jesus is followed at all it's as a teacher rather than someone divine).  What is the objection?  Still tainted by association?. ;)

 

A Quaker funeral: Again, we did not attend the service in the sanctuary, but came to the graveside.

 

This is similar to the Unitarians - I don't think most Quakers consider Jesus literally divine these days... but I guess there could still be gray areas?  Or is there some other thing making other religions not monotheistic other than worshipping more than one God (I guess I'm thinking it's the belief in the divinity of Jesus that rules out Christianity as monotheistic in this thinking, but maybe there's more to it)?

 

 

 

[Redeemed7]

I've heard somewhere from an Orthodox Jews that there are certain scriptures that aren't read. Is that true of all Orthodox Jews? If this is the case do you know why?

 

If you need an example, I believe one was the book of Ruth and another Genesis 22.

[YaelAldrich]

Your follow-up questions points out an assumption neither Yael nor I stated clearly enough: for purposes of evaluating Jewish involvement, Xtianity is not considered a monotheistic religion.

 Just wanted to interject a bit of Jew-y flavor here.  Most rabbinical figures think Christianity is not monotheism.  There is at least one - the Meiri, I believe, that doesn't place it THAT far outside the monotheistic realm; that it is a shituf (a partnership - in this case between G-d and Jesus).  It's forbidden for Jews, but OK for non-Jews. The RaMBaM says a shituf is forbidden for everyone.

[YaelAldrich]

 

Hmm.  Your post did not quote.

 

OK,  yes, a Jew could go into a mosque and I have been to the shrine of the Ba'ab in Haifa, Israel.  My sister is Baha'i and they are completely monotheistic.  The Sikh religion likewise (I was a religious studies major in college).  

 

I don't know what a rabbi would say about the Unitarian church of today nor the Quakers.  If neither of them believe that G-d even has a partner of equal status in Jesus, then I guess they wouldn't fall under the rubric of polytheism.  I don't know if their history would make a difference....

[YaelAldrich]

I've heard somewhere from an Orthodox Jews that there are certain scriptures that aren't read. Is that true of all Orthodox Jews? If this is the case do you know why?

 

If you need an example, I believe one was the book of Ruth and another Genesis 22.

 

No way!  We read it all.  There is a tremendous - I mean a scary enormous amount - of Rabbinic commentary on every verse in the Jewish Bible.  

 

There are great images of the typical page we learn from in the Jewish Bible but here's one anyways http://www.judaism.com/chamisha-chumsha-torah-mikraos-gedolos-hamaloh/dp/JAJBJ/ .  And here is the Wiki on the same set of books http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikraot_Gedolot . Here are the standard commentaries for the Chumash (1st five books of the Bible) 

• Targum Jonathan (For the Torah, Pseudo-Jonathan)
• Targum Yerushalmi on the Torah
• Rashbam
• Tosafot on the Torah (Daat Zekenim)
• Chaim ibn Attar (Or Hachaim)
• Abraham ibn Ezra
• David Kimhi (Rada"k)
• Nahmanides
• Gersonides
• Jacob ben Asher (Ba'al Haturim)
• Obadiah ben Jacob Sforno
• Shabbethai Bass (Siftei Chakhamim)
• Obadiah of Bertinoro (Emer Neka)
• Shlomo Ephraim Luntschitz (Kli Yakar)
• Don Isaac Abrabanel
• Joseph Kara

Newer editions often include Baruch Halevi Epstein's Torah Temimah.

 

There are rabbis who have also made stand alone commentaries, the Malbim, the Chanukas HaTorah, and so on.  

In other words, Jews make it a point to learn and elucidate the Torah (and our Laws).  It's our connection to G-d. That's what we do best (to paraphaseTigger)!

[Redeemed7]

No way! We read it all. There is a tremendous - I mean a scary enormous amount - of Rabbinic commentary on every verse in the Jewish Bible.

I'm sorry I guess I didn't state my question right. I wasn't suggesting that the Rabbis haven't studied it. I guess I thought perhaps those that sit under the rabbis didn't or maybe weren't supposed to. I thought that was what was indicated. I wondered if anyone knew the reasoning behind that.

 

Maybe I misspoke and it was supposed to be "study" instead of "read". I thought it was both. I will have to see if I can clarify this with this other person if I can contact them. Or perhaps could this be different in different places? This person wasn't American.

[YaelAldrich]

I'm sorry I guess I didn't state my question right. I wasn't suggesting that the Rabbis haven't studied it. I guess I thought perhaps those that sit under the rabbis didn't or maybe weren't supposed to. I thought that was what was indicated. I wondered if anyone knew the reasoning behind that.

 

Maybe I misspoke and it was supposed to be "study" instead of "read". I thought it was both. I will have to see if I can clarify this with this other person if I can contact them. Or perhaps could this be different in different places? This person wasn't American.

 

 

I'm not making myself clear.  This Rabbinic commentary is the stuff we study to understand the Bible and G-d.  My kids learn the stuff I showed you, I do, my husband does, many/most Orthodox Jews have some point in their day where they learn Torah and texts.  There's little that is off-limits - the Kabbalah Eliana talked about upthread.  This is reserved for over 40 year old men who have extensively studied the Torah and commentaries.  Some women don't learn the Oral law/Mishnah/Gemara, but that's really it.  I don't know of any part of the Torah that if off limits (I skim through the adult-ish parts like Tamar or Onan with my kids as I don't really need to talk about incest or prostitution at age 7-9 when we encounter the text [of course in Hebrew])

 

I hope I've been clearer.

 

[Juniper]

Something came across my newsfeed today about Jews in the Ukraine being evacuated. I have reason to question the source, but was wondering if you ladies had more accurate information?

[JenniferB]

Yael (welcome back, honey, I missed you!) posted a fabulous selections of songs, but I know you're trying to get a sense for the feel of

Here's  a video (amateur and a little wobbly) of a small part of a Selichos service (special daavening done in the lead up to Rosh HaShanah)

 

I think it gives a tiny sense of some of the dynamic - there's a bit where many of the guys start dancing a little around the bimah (Yael, help!  How do I translate bimah?  ... um, elevated table/podium thing-y where the shliach tzibbur (emissary of the congregation, iow the person leading that part of the service) stands and where the Torah is set during Torah readings)... and at the end you get a glimpse of the guys going back to individual tefillah rather than singing...

 

And here is one of a weekday Torah reading before a bris..

 

If you are ever in the Seattle area and want to visit a shul, let me know...

 

I imagined it more like the 2nd link, with the garments, and the tapestries on the walls and the big scroll.  

 

When the men rock back and forth or forward and back, are those like little reverences?

[Laurie4b]

Something came across my newsfeed today about Jews in the Ukraine being evacuated. I have reason to question the source, but was wondering if you ladies had more accurate information?

 

I heard yesterday on NPR a source in the Ukraine say that they had plans to evacuate Jews from Odessa if necessary, starting with children.

[shage]

So the pagans and Buddhists would have to meet in another space? Or not under the same roof? Or is it something that's worked out on a case by case basis, probably with guidelines Jewish chaplains set up?

 

//Off topic.

 

I am Christian and thus am violating the spirit of the thread by responding.  However, I visit different correctional facilities as part of my job (jails and prisons) and have some understanding as to how the shared chapel space works.

 

These rooms almost always have cabinetry plus curtains which can be closed or opened.  Any item belonging to a specific religion has to be in the cabinet or behind the curtain when the other group uses the room.  Certain items which are technically contraband (eg candles) have to be kept in the chaplain office areas, and only brought out during specific service times.  Depending on the particular item and security level of the facility, there might be a guard escort. 

 

In the part of the country where I live (west coast), there is a lot of cooperation between the Jewish and Muslim chaplains, much more so than between Jewish and Christian.  Part of this is because these rabbis and imams are only part time in the facilities and they tend to cross schedule from each other.  So if a Jewish prisoner needs something and the rabbi is not available, the imam will generally be the one to step in.  And vice versa.  It had not occurred to me before this thread that part of the reason for the cooperation might be the monotheism issue.

 

This is not true for Nation of Islam, though.  They tend to work with the black Christian chaplains when necessary.  And the Sikhs and Hindus tend to work together because of shared language and cultural issues.

 

Getting kosher food to the prisoners is a whole other issue.  On the east and west coast, generally the prisoners can request and the facility will try to accommodate.  In the midwest or south, not so much.  The same is true with work and facility schedules involved with keeping the Sabbath.

 

Carry on.//

[YaelAldrich]

Thanks, shage!