secular Sonlight - www.bookshark.com?

[hsmom10]

I must admit I am befuddled by this testimonial:

 

BookShark has been such a joy to use with all six of my kiddos (Grades K-9). We have journeyed far and wide in our imaginations through so many literature-rich books and have learned SO much about history and the world around us. The instructor guides are easy to follow and make planning our home education a breeze. Everything is set up, ready to go, and well thought out. The conversations we have had around our dinner table have enriched our family dynamics and are developing my children into well-informed, engaged citizens of a larger community." Cheryl R. - Castle Rock, CO

 

 

 

Unless she was using 5th grade materials with her 9th grader, what the what? I also really don't understand why bookshark only goes up to 5th grade? Time necessary to secularize each core/grade maybe? 

Castle Rock, CO is the location of the homeschool enrichment (1 day a week) public school program, that last year was offering full Sonlight, and this year must have used Book Shark.  I know there was controversy last year with the public school program offering religious material and I posted last year about Sonlight using a secular version for the homeschool program in Castle Rock.   There was a lot of controversy surrounding it then, but I think it is nice they are offering a different branch (Book Shark) for everyone to purchase if they choose to.

 

(Just caught up that BrightFlash changed its name to Book Shark.  So yes, that testimonial came from someone that has used it as Book Shark, which they receive from the public school system since they attend a 1 day a week program through them)

[Elfknitter.#]

From page 1 of this thread: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/510340-secular-sonlight-wwwbooksharkcom/?p=5573472

Is that the only sample of any of the IGs? I can't seem to find that link if I try to go through the bookshark site.

[dewdropfairy]

Is that the only sample of any of the IGs? I can't seem to find that link if I try to go through the bookshark site.

 

The only samples I see are the 4th Grade ones that you access through the "4th Grade Full Package" link. None for the other grades. I would imagine they will get more up as they come on line. You can't even order the stuff till June so this must be a really new site.

[ondreeuh]

Is that the only sample of any of the IGs? I can't seem to find that link if I try to go through the bookshark site.

 

Yes, I think they only have the 2 samples of the 4th grade history. I hope to avoid going to the convention in July, but if they don't have samples up by then I might have to make the trip.

[MerryAtHope]

It's beyond awful....sounds like some kind of book recycling or shredding program.

 

 

When I asked my dh what first came to mind when he heard the name "bookshark" (without telling him anything about what it was), he said he thought it was some kind of shredding device that works for books and not just papers!

 

 

Book Shark? Makes me think of a loan shark, so now I picture a "book shark" as someone who is going to try to scam me with a bunch of super expensive books.

 

Or maybe someone who just destroys books by tearing them apart into bits of info.

 

Anyway, it doesn't really bring to mind cuddling on the couch and discussing good literature.

 

Then I told him it was a curriculum company, and asked him what came into his mind next, and he said, "loan shark, scams." 

 

So...yeah, odd choice! 

 

But then he added, "although, sharks are popular right now, lots of people are into sharks..."

 

Yeah, definitely doesn't bring to mind cuddling on the couch with my kids!

[kolamum]

The comments about the names are cracking me up, I dunno I kinda like it because I see someone devouring books. ;) That's the impression or word picture it brings to mind. :D

 

 

 

 

Anyone notice that the readers from Grade 2 are higher levels at BSK then they are at SL? What's up with that? I'm seeing some that are specifically listed in the Grade 4/5 reader pack now as Advanced 2nd grade readers over there.. I feel confused by that. It's like they lowered the levels/standards of SL but kept that level over at BKSK. Anyone else notice that??

 

[staceyobu]

The comments about the names are cracking me up, I dunno I kinda like it because I see someone devouring books. ;) That's the impression or word picture it brings to mind. :D

 

 

 

 

Anyone notice that the readers from Grade 2 are higher levels at BSK then they are at SL? What's up with that? I'm seeing some that are specifically listed in the Grade 4/5 reader pack now as Advanced 2nd grade readers over there.. I feel confused by that. It's like they lowered the levels/standards of SL but kept that level over at BKSK. Anyone else notice that??

 

I think SL has regular 2nd grader readers, intermediate 2nd grade (which is really 3rd grade level), and advanced 2nd grade (which is 4/5 grade level).  They are just being called different things.  

[ondreeuh]

I think SL has regular 2nd grader readers, intermediate 2nd grade (which is really 3rd grade level), and advanced 2nd grade (which is 4/5 grade level).  They are just being called different things.  

 

Yep. A few years ago when I tried Sonlight, Grade 2 had regular, intermediate, and advanced. They've just renamed them. Presumably because a Core was marketed to different grades and you may have two kids in Core C (2) and want to have them both at their "real" reading level.

 

Since BookShark is named by grade, it makes more sense to keep the readers also named by grade.

[kolamum]

Gotcha! Thanks for clarifying that, my head can stop spinning now. :D

[ebrindam]

Yep. A few years ago when I tried Sonlight, Grade 2 had regular, intermediate, and advanced. They've just renamed them. Presumably because a Core was marketed to different grades and you may have two kids in Core C (2) and want to have them both at their "real" reading level.

 

Since BookShark is named by grade, it makes more sense to keep the readers also named by grade.

 

Why does only 2nd grade have leveled readers?

[ByGrace3]

Why does only 2nd grade have leveled readers?

Because after core C, the readers tie into the history.

[Chanley]

Wonder if Holzman considers his revisionist history and disregard for historical accuracy to be "Christian content" that will be left out of Book Shark. I simply cannot bring myself to financially support the Holzmans. And I find it funny that even with their business practices and attitudes about others who believe differently that they would be pandering to them to get a slice of the pie. 

[ebrindam]

Because after core C, the readers tie into the history.

 

Oh I know that...but I wonder why Bookshark would not allow a choice for first grade readers...

[Crimson Wife]

revisionist history

There are actually a fair number of people who would like a more politically conservative "spin" to history materials but still want something without a Providential POV.

 

I'm fed up with all the politically correct, let's portray European-Americans as EVIL and non-Europeans as totally innocent victims of those evil Europeans etc., etc. "spin" to most secular modern history books. I have an ancestor who was massacred along with his entire family (his eldest son was fortunately living elsewhere so the bloodline was able to continue) in King Phillip's War and I have another ancestor who narrowly escaped an attack on her wagon train by the Apaches when she was a child (a bunch of other kids in the train weren't so lucky). BOTH sides did awful things and that needs to be acknowledged. You may consider that to be "revisionist history" but I see it as providing balance.

[shawthorne44]

There are actually a fair number of people who would like a more politically conservative "spin" to history materials but still want something without a Providential POV.

 

I'm fed up with all the politically correct, let's portray European-Americans as EVIL and non-Europeans as totally innocent victims of those evil Europeans etc., etc. "spin" to most secular modern history books. I have an ancestor who was massacred along with his entire family (his eldest son was fortunately living elsewhere so the bloodline was able to continue) in King Phillip's War and I have another ancestor who narrowly escaped an attack on her wagon train by the Apaches when she was a child (a bunch of other kids in the train weren't so lucky). BOTH sides did awful things and that needs to be acknowledged. You may consider that to be "revisionist history" but I see it as providing balance.

 

Totally agree with you.

My husband great-grandfather (or maybe there is another great) was half Cherokee.  His mother was taken from her husband and children by the tribe and was raped until she was re-captured.  Of course, the ancestry isn't claimed.  But, no one talks about things like that.  

I want truth, and as many facts as possible.  

[BatmansWife]

The comments about the names are cracking me up, I dunno I kinda like it because I see someone devouring books. ;) That's the impression or word picture it brings to mind. :D

 

:iagree: That's what I was going to say. 

 

This is really exciting!  We couldn't chose Sonlight because our school only buys secular.  Book Shark already has math and spelling choices we use, and we are loving Beautiful Feet history (not necessarily the guides...which are ok...but the reading of great books).  I'm fine with dropping my BF plan and doing Book Shark. I met with the guide to our school today and she was thrilled to hear about Book Shark.  She used Sonlight for quite a few years with her kids and loved it.  So, I'm 99% sure we'll be using Book Shark next year.  I'm really excited about it!  Yay! 

 

[Incognito]

SeSL - that way if they change the name again, it still applies. :)

 

[dewdropfairy]

I thought others might be interested in the response I got from Bookshark re: choosing math levels. Great news!!

 

"It is a great question and something we will accommodate. Request the grade change in the comments section of your order and we will switch out the math grade with the grade you prefer. We will contact you if there is a price difference. "

[kolamum]

Did the person who was contacting them about high school ever hear back?!

[BatmansWife]

I thought others might be interested in the response I got from Bookshark re: choosing math levels. Great news!!

 

"It is a great question and something we will accommodate. Request the grade change in the comments section of your order and we will switch out the math grade with the grade you prefer. We will contact you if there is a price difference. "

 

That is awesome news!  I had some questions I was going to e-mail them about today, including seeing if I can get a different level of TT.  I'm sure they are being bombarded with e-mails and questions. 

 

[Mandy in TN]

Wonder if Holzman considers his revisionist history and disregard for historical accuracy to be "Christian content" that will be left out of Book Shark. I simply cannot bring myself to financially support the Holzmans. And I find it funny that even with their business practices and attitudes about others who believe differently that they would be pandering to them to get a slice of the pie.

I am guessing that you don't know John. I am guessing that you don't know John's background with CHEC or Ken Ham. I am guessing you have not read John's blog. I am guessing you haven't been around long enough to have chatted or read chats with John on the Secular Sonlight yahoo group. I am so glad that SL/ BookShark share a parent company, so that John could borrow freely from SL.

 

I am very clear as to why John is developing BookShark, and I am excited for him. :D

While Sarita and SL lost me, I would definitely give John my money.

Mandy

[quietchapel]

Did the person who was contacting them about high school ever hear back?!

 

Yes, I heard back yesterday. Grade 8 will be out in 2015. They do not have concrete plans to publish high school , but the requests for high school have been overwhelming, so they have asked their Product Development team to investigate doing so.

If any of you think you will want BKSK (just going with that abbreviation, I guess!) high school, I'd really encourage you to contact them to communicate interest.

 

I am thrilled to hear they will be flexible with math levels, too! After a love- hate relationship with SL LA I am back to loving it and hope BKSK LA will work for us. The full grade option would be so convenient- if it worked out financially.

 

[Mandy in TN]

I am very clear as to why John is developing BookShark, and I am excited for him. :D

While Sarita and SL lost me, I would definitely give John my money.

When Ken Ham slammed SL for not being Christian enough and attacked John personally and basically had SL booted from the homeschool conventions in their own state, I understand that Sarita felt she had to change SL. In order to stay marketable, I understand that she felt she needed to change. I really do understand, but that doesn't mean I like it. John left. He is doing what he loves and marketing it to a group of people who are outside of Ken Ham's sway. I respect the bold move and have high hopes for his new twist on his old product.

[quietchapel]

I am guessing that you don't know John. I am guessing that you don't know John's background with CHEC or Ken Ham. I am guessing you have not read John's blog. I am guessing you haven't been around long enough to have chatted or read chats with John on the Secular Sonlight yahoo group. I am so glad that SL/ BookShark share a parent company, so that John could borrow freely from SL.

 

I am very clear as to why John is developing BookShark, and I am excited for him. :D

While Sarita and SL lost me, I would definitely give John my money.

Mandy

 

Thank you for this, Mandy. John's articles were helpful to me during a time when I felt lost in a sea of young- earth Christians. Sarita and SL have lost me, too. Ironically, BKSK may be ab answer to prayer for us. I really missed the academic tone that was in the guides from many years ago, and am hoping BKSK will be like the earlier cores. If it is appropriate, do you mind sharing why he is developing book shark?

[quietchapel]

When Ken Ham slammed SL for not being Christian enough and attacked John personally and basically had SL booted from the homeschool conventions in their own state, I understand that Sarita felt she had to change SL. In order to stay marketable, I understand that she felt she needed to change. I really do understand, but that doesn't mean I like it. John left. He is doing what he loves and marketing it to a group of people who are outside of Ken Ham's sway. I respect the bold move and have high hopes for his new twist on his old product.

 

Just saw this- thanks for the explanation.

[Chanley]

There are actually a fair number of people who would like a more politically conservative "spin" to history materials but still want something without a Providential POV.

 

I'm fed up with all the politically correct, let's portray European-Americans as EVIL and non-Europeans as totally innocent victims of those evil Europeans etc., etc. "spin" to most secular modern history books. I have an ancestor who was massacred along with his entire family (his eldest son was fortunately living elsewhere so the bloodline was able to continue) in King Phillip's War and I have another ancestor who narrowly escaped an attack on her wagon train by the Apaches when she was a child (a bunch of other kids in the train weren't so lucky). BOTH sides did awful things and that needs to be acknowledged. You may consider that to be "revisionist history" but I see it as providing balance.

I was referencing the white-washing slavery thread and John's responses. I never got to the attitudes about Native Americans. I have no problem addressing the "noble savage" attitude that I also find nauseating. 

[Mandy in TN]

John is married to Sarita. That's enough proof without his ridiculous Slavery is biblical nonsense. I have interacted with him plenty and I will definitely put my money somewhere else.

My dh is culturally Muslim, and I am culturally Christian. We have very different thoughts on many, many topics. We are not the same person, but we are still married. <shrug> John left SL, and, for awhile, he left the homeschool community. He is not Sarita. You certainly don't have to buy his products, but to say that a person's partner sums up that person just silly.

 

After enduring horrible attacks by the community that he thought he represented, I applaud his efforts to think through who he is and come back to something he loves doing regardless of the flack he is going to receive from Christian homeschoolers who will view him as no longer Christian and secular homeschoolers who are never going to accept him as anything but Christian.

Rock on. The man deserves a sticktoittiveness badge.

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

Oops double post

[Mandy in TN]

John supports Sarita and her business and her bigotry. Period. His own views are not significantly more palatable.

Thus, proving my point. Other than Khan Academy, where can I get a sticktoittiveness badge for John? ;)

[LindaOz]

 I really missed the academic tone that was in the guides from many years ago, and am hoping BKSK will be like the earlier cores.

 

Ok. Interesting comment.  I am a big fan of SL and have the majority of the cores, but haven't bought any new ones with the LA etc incorporated back in.  When do you think the academic tone changed? Was it just in the last couple of years, or further back?  In what way do you think it changed? Just interested...

[umsami]

Re the name, I keep thinking landshark from classic SNL. :)

[chaik76]

Ok. Interesting comment.  I am a big fan of SL and have the majority of the cores, but haven't bought any new ones with the LA etc incorporated back in.  When do you think the academic tone changed? Was it just in the last couple of years, or further back?  In what way do you think it changed? Just interested...

 

I have IGs going back to 1992. The very early years were similar to what you see now (except in much less detail). Right around 2000 and through the mid 2000s I thought SL was really excellent as far as their academic tone. They used exceptional books and had some exceptional commentary (also some strange commentary, but I'm not sure if that was just because I am so different in my religious beliefs). As they got towards the end of the 2000s and definitely into the 10s I felt that things were becoming more watered down and that the product was marketed more as a whole product deal...buy this; we will tell you what to teach your children, how, and what.

 

I STILL get excited when I read old catalogs and look at old IGs. I find them super. The new stuff...eh.

 

 

Really, when you start looking, I think it is a case of Sarita's hand being more involved in the development of the IG/manual tone in the beginning and now, with John more in charge of things in the middle.

 

My interactions with John have been iffy. There is a LOT of stuff that he says that startles me (in a not good way) and a lot of issues I disagree with him on. I stay interested in what is going on with SL because I find them fascinating...it is obvious that Sarita and John parted ways as far as their individual beliefs long ago; and SL seems  like a train wreck waiting to happen...but one that manages to keep sliding by for some reason.

 

Now that I am able to separate the curriculum from some of the other stuff surrounding SL I am using it again in conjunction with WP. Starting in August I will switch to BkSk though. (Together, SL Core W, WP QAW, Algebra I, and Language Arts manage to keep my 12-year old occupied for about two hours per day.)

 

If you have specific questions, it is possible I could answer them or look up the information.

[dewdropfairy]

I met with Bookshark at a recent curriculum fair. I was excited to see the program, flipped through the various books at length, and was satisfied enough to order Grade 4. The Grade 6 full grade package will not be coming out until 2015, they said, but the History/Reading portion will be available in August of this year. (They're still working on science; same deal with 7th) I went with an already established program for that. I see they've updated their website to reflect that.

[BatmansWife]

I met with Bookshark at a recent curriculum fair. I was excited to see the program, flipped through the various books at length, and was satisfied enough to order Grade 4. The Grade 6 full grade package will not be coming out until 2015, they said, but the History/Reading portion will be available in August of this year. (They're still working on science; same deal with 7th) I went with an already established program for that. I see they've updated their website to reflect that.

 

This is good to hear.  I was worried you were going to say you looked through it and didn't like it.  I wish I could see it like you did.  But, we are going with it next year sight unseen (other than the very little bit of samples at the site.  I hope they add more soon!). 

 

[dewdropfairy]

I met with Bookshark at a recent curriculum fair. I was excited to see the program, flipped through the various books at length, and was satisfied enough to order Grade 4. The Grade 6 full grade package will not be coming out until 2015, they said, but the History/Reading portion will be available in August of this year. (They're still working on science; same deal with 7th) I went with an already established program for that. I see they've updated their website to reflect that.

 

One thing I forgot to mention is the Bookshark schedule is a 4 day schedule. The rep there told me it could be modified to fit a 5 day week if that is what you desire, but the IG's that I saw were written to 4 day.

[staceyobu]

I'm really hoping they will offer alternate reading packages for the lower levels like sonlight does. I need grade one with third grade readers!!

[ItoLina]

I'm really hoping they will offer alternate reading packages for the lower levels like sonlight does. I need grade one with third grade readers!!

I emailed them this week and asked about this. They emailed me back and told me that they are planning to add the second grade reader options (regular, intermediate, and advanced) to the first grade package by June 1st.

[kolamum]

One thing I forgot to mention is the Bookshark schedule is a 4 day schedule. The rep there told me it could be modified to fit a 5 day week if that is what you desire, but the IG's that I saw were written to 4 day.

 

That's something that I love. I was disappointed to see that SL did away with the 4-Day option. While it's still there, some things are 5 day no matter what, & while that's okay for some it can be a wee bit frustrating for others. I tend to fall in the later category at times because if we take a day off it simply means that we have to double up here & there which is great except when 2 chapter of this or that are scheduled. I know, I know.. don't pay attention to the week, but the tiny numbers, but sometimes my brain doesn't listen to what I type or speak. ;)

[ItoLina]

I met with Bookshark at a recent curriculum fair. I was excited to see the program, flipped through the various books at length, and was satisfied enough to order Grade 4. The Grade 6 full grade package will not be coming out until 2015, they said, but the History/Reading portion will be available in August of this year. (They're still working on science; same deal with 7th) I went with an already established program for that. I see they've updated their website to reflect that.

Does BookShark language arts look basically like SonLight minus the God stuff? I am curious to see a sample of that before deciding on our language arts plans. I have looked at the SonLight online samples at length, but I am not sure if BookShark is the same or if they have made significant changes.

 

Thanks :-)

[dewdropfairy]

Does BookShark language arts look basically like SonLight minus the God stuff? I am curious to see a sample of that before deciding on our language arts plans. I have looked at the SonLight online samples at length, but I am not sure if BookShark is the same or if they have made significant changes.

 

Thanks :-)

 

I've never used SL so I can't compare the two directly, but from what I've been told and as far as I can see it's the same program with the religious POV removed.

[ItoLina]

I just got an email for them. They are editing the language arts guides now and plan to post samples of them soon. I noticed they have some science samples up now.