California HS-ers (and others?) -- Can we talk record-keeping?

[three4me]

Next year is DD's "official" first year of school since she turns 6 next month. I was researching homeschooling laws in CA and I think I pretty well understand the whole affidavit thing. But I'm also under the impression that I need to keep track of her school records, as well as keep track of absences. I'm wondering how others do this.

 

According to a website I was just reading, I need to have English, math, social sciences, science, fine arts, health, and physical education covered. Do I literally need to have curriculum for each of these subjects? And what is the best way to keep records? Would this be daily records, weekly, quarterly, or just a list of what we used throughout the year? I guess I'm just confused about what specifically needs to be covered and what would be a decent way of keeping track.

 

Any CA homeschoolers' input on the details would be welcome, as well as others who have to keep records.

 

Thanks!

[Crimson Wife]

You just have to keep a list of courses offered. Whether you choose to use a formal program for any or all subjects is entirely up to you.

 

I would recommend reading through the information at the Homeschool Association of California website: http://www.hsc.org/establishing-your-own-private-school.html

 

When we filed a PSA, I kept a weekly log of work completed for my own purposes, but that did not go in the official Private School records folder. Now that we are enrolled through a flexible charter, I do need to turn in a monthly "learning log" to our assigned teacher. That's the tradeoff for the stipend I get for my kids.

[Ellie]

Next year is DD's "official" first year of school since she turns 6 next month. I was researching homeschooling laws in CA and I think I pretty well understand the whole affidavit thing. But I'm also under the impression that I need to keep track of her school records, as well as keep track of absences. I'm wondering how others do this.

 

According to a website I was just reading, I need to have English, math, social sciences, science, fine arts, health, and physical education covered. Do I literally need to have curriculum for each of these subjects? And what is the best way to keep records? Would this be daily records, weekly, quarterly, or just a list of what we used throughout the year? I guess I'm just confused about what specifically needs to be covered and what would be a decent way of keeping track.

 

Any CA homeschoolers' input on the details would be welcome, as well as others who have to keep records.

 

Thanks!

 

Remember that other than filing an affidavit annually, there is no accountability to report or record anything.

 

Here's the compulsory education law in a nutshell (you'll find the specific codes at 48222 and 33190).

 

Children must be enrolled in a public school or a private school, or tutored full time by a credentialed teacher.

 

Children are exempt from public school attendance if they are enrolled in a private school which files an affidavit each year, and which has teachers capable of teaching, keeps an attendance calendar on which absences have been indicated, and offers the same subjects that public schools do (sections 51210-51230).

 

You are not required to keep any records to *prove* that you are offering the same subjects offered by public schools. In fact, the education code does not specify when or to what extent any subject must be taught. Anyone who is concerned about her children's education will end up teaching all those things at some point along the way without even trying.

 

The only records you need to keep are copies of the affidavit when you file it on-line (although it is probable that you'll never have to show it to anyone), and whatever you need for yourself to help you keep track of what you're doing. Most people don't bother to keep track of absences because homeschooled children are never absent; you get up every day and there they are. If you have a jammy day and don't do any Official School Stuff, your children aren't absent, because there was no school to be absent from (there are NO minimum number of school days required for private schools).

 

[Elfknitter.#]

You are also required to keep a copy of immunization records or exemptions. I keep a copy of our personal belief waver with my records so I don't have to worry about it.

[three4me]

Thanks everyone!

[momto2Cs]

From HSC...

 

The following records are required to be kept by all California private schools:

      

• Private School Affidavit (formerly known as an R-4) (§33190)
• Attendance Records (§48222)
• Courses of Study Offered (§33190)
• Faculty Qualifications (§33190)
• Criminal Record Summaries (§33190 and §44237)
• Immunization Records or Waivers (Health and Safety Code §120335.)

   
We recommend that you keep these records in two separate binders. The first binder should hold the records that a government official, such as an attendance officer, is legally entitled to see without a warrant or a subpoena: a copy of the filed private school affidavit, and your attendance records. The second binder should hold all of the other required records identified in the list above: courses of study offered, faculty qualifications, criminal record summaries, and immunizations records or waivers. Although you are required to keep these, no public official is entitled to see them without a subpoena. In fact, we believe that many of these records cannot even be seen with a subpoena. However, the law requires you to have them, and you are signing, under penalty of perjury, that you do have them. 

 

So I do have two binders, and each year I simply put the new paperwork in on top of the old paperwork. For attendance records, I simply print out a school year calendar from Donna Young for each child, put their name at the top, and write "All absences marked with a red x", and then I stick it in the binder and forget about it. For courses of study offered, I just run down the list of necessities, and give very little detail--for example, I write things like "Language arts includes literature, composition, spelling and vocabulary". I never name specific programs. The "faculty qualifications" are just a general bullet-pointed list of things like my BA, dh's carpentry and woodworking experience, the fact thatboth of us have CPR/Fisrt Aid cards, etc.

 

[Hen]

many people just print out a year calendar and only mark off absences, mostly kids are always present. It's easier then marking present everyday.

[KrissiK]

I just keep track of our days of school. I am always amazed that this state, that regulates everything, including what kind of sheets hotels can use, makes it surprisingly easy to homeschool. My theory is... if it is too hard to homeschool, we'll put our kids in public schools and they'll actually have to spend our tax money to educate them, which they can't afford. Regulating homeschoolers will be a drain on the system. As it is, they take my tax money, and I educate my own kids. Can you imagine the nightmare of public schools if all the homeschoolers all the sudden enrolled? And probably homeschool parents are people they don't want to contend with, because we're the ones who know you can opt out of the standardized tests, and we'd probably make waves about everything else.

[73349]

Here are the free attendance record printables from Donna Young: http://donnayoung.org/forms/planners/attendance.htm?bid=398

 

If you want one that can be used every year & don't mind having the State of NC logo on it, here's ours: http://www.ncdnpe.org/documents/hhh125.pdf

 

A one-page list of major books/videos you use that cover each subject for the year sounds like it would be enough to keep a record of having done the required subjects.

[three4me]

 

From HSC...

 

The following records are required to be kept by all California private schools:

      

• Private School Affidavit (formerly known as an R-4) (§33190)
• Attendance Records (§48222)
• Courses of Study Offered (§33190)
• Faculty Qualifications (§33190)
• Criminal Record Summaries (§33190 and §44237)
• Immunization Records or Waivers (Health and Safety Code §120335.)

   

We recommend that you keep these records in two separate binders. The first binder should hold the records that a government official, such as an attendance officer, is legally entitled to see without a warrant or a subpoena: a copy of the filed private school affidavit, and your attendance records. The second binder should hold all of the other required records identified in the list above: courses of study offered, faculty qualifications, criminal record summaries, and immunizations records or waivers. Although you are required to keep these, no public official is entitled to see them without a subpoena. In fact, we believe that many of these records cannot even be seen with a subpoena. However, the law requires you to have them, and you are signing, under penalty of perjury, that you do have them. 

 

So I do have two binders, and each year I simply put the new paperwork in on top of the old paperwork. For attendance records, I simply print out a school year calendar from Donna Young for each child, put their name at the top, and write "All absences marked with a red x", and then I stick it in the binder and forget about it. For courses of study offered, I just run down the list of necessities, and give very little detail--for example, I write things like "Language arts includes literature, composition, spelling and vocabulary". I never name specific programs. The "faculty qualifications" are just a general bullet-pointed list of things like my BA, dh's carpentry and woodworking experience, the fact thatboth of us have CPR/Fisrt Aid cards, etc.

 

 

Thanks! This was really helpful!

[Ellie]

You are also required to keep a copy of immunization records or exemptions. I keep a copy of our personal belief waver with my records so I don't have to worry about it.

 

Wouldn't you keep immunization records anyway? And there only needs to be an exemption if the child is actually enrolled in school (public or private); there is nothing that is signed or whatever by a doctor. And you don't ever have to show them to anyone, not ever, not unless and until your child actually goes to school.

[Ellie]

many people just print out a year calendar and only mark off absences, mostly kids are always present. It's easier then marking present everyday.

 

Private schools are only required to indicate when their students are *absent* for longer than half a day of however long a school's day is. IOW, an attendance calendar would be blank, because your children are always present. :-)

[SeaConquest]

Wouldn't you keep immunization records anyway? And there only needs to be an exemption if the child is actually enrolled in school (public or private); there is nothing that is signed or whatever by a doctor. And you don't ever have to show them to anyone, not ever, not unless and until your child actually goes to school.

That used to be the case, but this new law requires more hoop jumping.

 

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/Pages/NR13-051.aspx

[shinyhappypeople]

That used to be the case, but this new law requires more hoop jumping.

 

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/Pages/NR13-051.aspx

 

This is so stupid.  The only people I know who choose not vaccinate have already educated themselves about the issue and their decision is a result of their research.  It takes fairly deep-seated conviction to buck the medical status quo and refuse vaccinations.  

 

I vaccinate, but I respect the choices of those who don't. I don't believe non-vax parents should be required to sit through a doctor's lecture - and for some doc's this means applying pressure, pressure, pressure - about vaccinations.

 

(Even though I vaccinate, I can't for the life of me remember where I put their vax cards.  Feeling uppity and NON-compliant at the moment.  Ha!)

[Ellie]

That used to be the case, but this new law requires more hoop jumping.

 

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/Pages/NR13-051.aspx

 

That totally sucks.

 

Here's HSLDA's article about it.

 

Thanks for giving me that heads-up.

 

On the up side, at least it's a one-time hoop. In Texas, parents whose dc are in public school have to request a form from the Texas Dept. of Health, fill it out, have it notarized, and return it to the health department *every two years*  (some private schools require it, as well, but state law doesn't).

 

[Elfknitter.#]

Wouldn't you keep immunization records anyway? And there only needs to be an exemption if the child is actually enrolled in school (public or private); there is nothing that is signed or whatever by a doctor. And you don't ever have to show them to anyone, not ever, not unless and until your child actually goes to school.

*If* one keeps such records. We do not . So just in case it's ever necessary, I keep waivers with our affidavit.

 

Also, vax regulations changed this year. It doesn't affect every waiver yet, but some children do need a doctor's signature.

[Ellie]

*If* one keeps such records. We do not . So just in case it's ever necessary, I keep waivers with our affidavit.

 

Also, vax regulations changed this year. It doesn't affect every waiver yet, but some children do need a doctor's signature.

 

Yeah, I never kept anything except the affidavit. No.one.ever.checks.truly.honestly. Bummer about the changes to the waiver.

 

IMHO, HSC is overly worried about it. Yes, private schools are supposed to keep their affidavits, the qualifications of their teachers, the courses offered by the school, but no.one.ever.checks. The most anyone has ever had to do was show her affidavit at her front door to an ambitious child welfare and attendance officer (truant officer).

[Guest]

ds1 wanted to go to public school for the first time in high school. All they wanted was the names of the courses (World History, English 101, Algebra 1, etc.) and the number of credits (three for a daily core subject, one for a weekly or twice weekly enrichment activity).

 

My two former homeschoolers are getting up to the age where I enjoy looking at the detailed homeschooling records I kept instead of making pretty scrapbooks like normal people do, but if I had it to do over again, I'd rather spend the time playing with my kids.

 

Oh yea. I do. :D

 

Bummer about the vax waiver but I think it was very, VERY bad advice to include kindergarteners on this year's R4 to get around the new law and was kind of shocked to see it suggested on the Yahoo group.

 

http://a2zhomeschooling.com/regional/us/california/california_private_school_affidavit_psa/

 

"Do NOT offer kindergarten; regulations for kindergartens are more detailed than those for private elementary and secondary schools, and marking this box will open you up to additional bureaucratic regulation."

[Ellie]

ds1 wanted to go to public school for the first time in high school. All they wanted was the names of the courses (World History, English 101, Algebra 1, etc.) and the number of credits (three for a daily core subject, one for a weekly or twice weekly enrichment activity).

 

My two former homeschoolers are getting up to the age where I enjoy looking at the detailed homeschooling records I kept instead of making pretty scrapbooks like normal people do, but if I had it to do over again, I'd rather spend the time playing with my kids.

 

Oh yea. I do. :D

 

Bummer about the vax waiver but I think it was very, VERY bad advice to include kindergarteners on this year's R4 to get around the new law and was kind of shocked to see it suggested on the Yahoo group.

 

http://a2zhomeschooling.com/regional/us/california/california_private_school_affidavit_psa/

 

"Do NOT offer kindergarten; regulations for kindergartens are more detailed than those for private elementary and secondary schools, and marking this box will open you up to additional bureaucratic regulation."

 

I disagree with Ann's comments about kindergarten, although I agree with not including kindergarten "students," but only because kindergarten is not mandatory in California. It's the requirements for preschool that are more detailed, not kindergarten.

 

[Crimson Wife]

IMHO, HSC is overly worried about it. Yes, private schools are supposed to keep their affidavits, the qualifications of their teachers, the courses offered by the school, but no.one.ever.checks. The most anyone has ever had to do was show her affidavit at her front door to an ambitious child welfare and attendance officer (truant officer).

I know the lady who heads up the HSC legal team because she's in one of the support groups that we belong to. She's a lawyer so the advice on the website is written from a CYA perspective. Nobody is likely to check but if your family were ever involved in a lawsuit like the Long case a few years ago that almost got HSing banned in the state, you'd want to have all the t's crossed and i's dotted.

 

Do it or not as you wish, but when I filed the PSA, I spent the minimal time required to type up a very basic list of courses offered and to format my resume in such a way that it emphasized my teaching qualifications.

[Ellie]

I know the lady who heads up the HSC legal team because she's in one of the support groups that we belong to. She's a lawyer so the advice on the website is written from a CYA perspective. Nobody is likely to check but if your family were ever involved in a lawsuit like the Long case a few years ago that almost got HSing banned in the state, you'd want to have all the t's crossed and i's dotted.

 

Do it or not as you wish, but when I filed the PSA, I spent the minimal time required to type up a very basic list of courses offered and to format my resume in such a way that it emphasized my teaching qualifications.

 

I know her, too, and I still think she's being over cautious.

 

The Long case had nothing to do with whether or not private schools consisting of just one child kept any of those records on file. That never came up, not once. In fact, the Longs did not file an affidavit themselves; their children were enrolled in a PSP, and I'm sure the administrator kept those records on file (because I know who he is). The issue was whether or not it was legal for parents to establish private schools with just their own children enrolled, or for private schools to exist which enrolled only homeschooled children.

[Cheryl in CA]

I disagree with Ann's comments about kindergarten, although I agree with not including kindergarten "students," but only because kindergarten is not mandatory in California. It's the requirements for preschool that are more detailed, not kindergarten.

 

 

Can you please explain what is different?  I've only belonged to an ISP or PSP and have never filed my own affidavit so I don't understand.  Thank you :)

 

ETA - Oops, I replied to the wrong post but would still appreciate any clarification you can give!

[Cheryl in CA]

ds1 wanted to go to public school for the first time in high school. All they wanted was the names of the courses (World History, English 101, Algebra 1, etc.) and the number of credits (three for a daily core subject, one for a weekly or twice weekly enrichment activity).

 

My two former homeschoolers are getting up to the age where I enjoy looking at the detailed homeschooling records I kept instead of making pretty scrapbooks like normal people do, but if I had it to do over again, I'd rather spend the time playing with my kids.

 

Oh yea. I do. :D

 

Bummer about the vax waiver but I think it was very, VERY bad advice to include kindergarteners on this year's R4 to get around the new law and was kind of shocked to see it suggested on the Yahoo group.

 

http://a2zhomeschooling.com/regional/us/california/california_private_school_affidavit_psa/

 

"Do NOT offer kindergarten; regulations for kindergartens are more detailed than those for private elementary and secondary schools, and marking this box will open you up to additional bureaucratic regulation."

 

Can you please explain what is different when you include Kindergarten or pre-school?  I've only belonged to an ISP or PSP and have never filed my own affidavit so I don't understand.  Thank you :)

 

[Ellie]

Can you please explain what is different when you include Kindergarten or pre-school?  I've only belonged to an ISP or PSP and have never filed my own affidavit so I don't understand.  Thank you :)

 

 

I don't believe there is any difference if you include kindergarten. I believe that Ann Zeise is incorrect there. The reason you don't include them is that kindergarten is not mandatory in California, and for homeschoolers, it just isn't necessary, especially if your oldest child is just kindergarten. When I owned/administered a PSP, I refused to enroll kindergarten-age students.

 

However, there are all sorts of requirements and licensing and inspections and whatnot for preschool.

[Cheryl in CA]

I don't believe there is any difference if you include kindergarten. I believe that Ann Zeise is incorrect there. The reason you don't include them is that kindergarten is not mandatory in California, and for homeschoolers, it just isn't necessary, especially if your oldest child is just kindergarten. When I owned/administered a PSP, I refused to enroll kindergarten-age students.

 

However, there are all sorts of requirements and licensing and inspections and whatnot for preschool.

 

Thank you :)  Just to make sure I understand, if you are filing your own affidavit and include pre-schoolers you would need to go through licensing and inspections?  The ISP and PSP I've belonged to enroll Kindergarten but I don't believe Pre-K. 

 

While Kindergarten isn't mandatory there are many who enroll their children in Kindergarten when they are compulsory school age instead of 1st grade (especially children with fall birthdays), so in their cases they would need to be enrolled even though they are only in Kindergarten.

[Ellie]

Thank you :)  Just to make sure I understand, if you are filing your own affidavit and include pre-schoolers you would need to go through licensing and inspections?  The ISP and PSP I've belonged to enroll Kindergarten but I don't believe Pre-K. 

 

While Kindergarten isn't mandatory there are many who enroll their children in Kindergarten when they are compulsory school age instead of 1st grade (especially children with fall birthdays), so in their cases they would need to be enrolled even though they are only in Kindergarten.

 

If you are homeschooling, under no circumstances should you put preschoolers on your affidavit.

 

IMHO, it is a mistake to put kindergarten on the affidavit for any reason. People whose children are compulsory school age (6 by September 1, I believe, with the next school year? it used to be December 2, but I digress) should check first grade, not kindergarten, on their affidavits. The state does not care that the children are doing kindergarten-level work, or that the parents are red-shirting their children. No one will ever question them about it. Just fill out the form and call it a day.

 

FTR, I did not allow my families to enroll their dc into kindergarten if the dc were 6 by the cut-off. Too many experiences with repercussions down the road for people who mucked with their dc's grade levels on paper.

[Cheryl in CA]

If you are homeschooling, under no circumstances should you put preschoolers on your affidavit.

 

IMHO, it is a mistake to put kindergarten on the affidavit for any reason. People whose children are compulsory school age (6 by September 1, I believe, with the next school year? it used to be December 2, but I digress) should check first grade, not kindergarten, on their affidavits. The state does not care that the children are doing kindergarten-level work, or that the parents are red-shirting their children. No one will ever question them about it. Just fill out the form and call it a day.

 

FTR, I did not allow my families to enroll their dc into kindergarten if the dc were 6 by the cut-off. Too many experiences with repercussions down the road for people who mucked with their dc's grade levels on paper.

 

I disagree with you regarding always enrolling children who are compulsory age in 1st grade but appreciate the information regarding filing an affidavit.