Teaching History One Empire at a Time vs Chronological

[Hunter]

I've been thinking a bit about the pros and cons of teaching history one empire at time instead of chronologically.

 

Pros:

 

It appeals to my OCD to tie each unit up into a neat little package, that is easier to notebook.

 

Vintage books seems to be a bit more focused on empires than we are today, and there are some free books out there.

 

Cons:

 

It's overly-simplistic and harder to show any flows if you believe in any flows.

 

Other than Home School in the Woods Great Empires, there really isn't any prepared curriculum using this plan. And some of those empires are pretty sketchy, as there really wasn't a lot for the author to quickly plagiarize from other publishers. I think there is awesome stuff out there; It's just not commonly used and already on every other reading list to the point of being thought of as common domain.

 

I'm just throwing this out there. Lets be nice. I know this overlaps with racism and the overuse of vintage books and those are hot topics, but lets be nice, okay?

 

What do you all think about teaching the USA as just another empire? Pros and cons of that? It's definitely not PA, even though teaching empire by empire with notebooking reminds me a bit of the Principle Approach Chain of Christianity.

[shawthorne44]

If you do decide to go with Empires and include the U.S., I would recommend "Empire of Trust".   He makes a comparisons between the American and Roman empires.  I know that has been done before, but I know enough Roman history that my B.S. goes off for the others.  Not with this one.  He made a lot of connections that I've never thought of before.  The author is known mostly as a favorite History channel expert on the Crusades. 

[Hunter]

If you do decide to go with Empires and include the U.S., I would recommend "Empire of Trust". He makes a comparisons between the American and Roman empires. I know that has been done before, but I know enough Roman history that my B.S. goes off for the others. Not with this one. He made a lot of connections that I've never thought of before. The author is known mostly as a favorite History channel expert on the Crusades.

Thanks! The book comes in a KIndle and audio whispersync deal. If I can find a library copy to download, I can buy the audio for $4.99.

http://www.amazon.com/Empires-Trust-Built---America-Building---ebook/dp/B001CDB2XI/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1391469869&sr=1-1&keywords=empires+of+trust

[scrapbabe]

I like the idea. Finding resources might be tricky but I'm sure they're out there.

[Hunter]

I'm really getting attached to the idea, because of the ease of notebooking empires.

[Farrar]

This is sort of how we have done it.  I disagree that it's simplistic.  I think when you spend time on a single place/system then you get to go into more depth and do more with it than if it's broken up.  So, for example, I think for a young child studying ancient Egypt, that they're probably remember more and get more out of it if they spend a month on Egypt straight through with projects (and notebooking!) than if they do a week on one Egyptian topic, a week on a Mesopotamian civilization, then back to Egypt, etc.  I'd much rather do one first and keep the overlaps straight with a timeline.

[scrapbabe]

So what resources have you gathered so far, Hunter?

[Momling]

I am doing a 'unit study' type approach to world history this year.  It hasn't been hard to plan it myself: just decide which month to study each area, find the text resources to use (I used mostly OUP The World in Ancient/Medieval series), look up a few documentaries, find some literature or folk stories that are related to the area to assign, come up with some writing topics, search the internet for recipes/art/dances/music from the area... I put it all into the homeschool helper app on my ipad and then we just do it.  My girls put it all together in a 'history portfolio' with maps and pictures and it's been pretty awesome.  We'll continue for US history next year.

[Gil]

Why not just do the Empires in chronological order? They didn't ALL exist at the same time...

[Chrysalis Academy]

To me this sounds like the kind of thing you get with the OUP World in Ancient Times approach vs. the SOTW/HO approach.  The former covers a region - not necessarily an empire - in detail.  The latter cover history chronologically, jumping from place to place.

 

We have found that we like the regional approach.  We're going to do that next year using OUP when we start with Ancients again.  I've turned this year (modern) into that style of history using SOTW, HO, and other resources, by creating a syllabus where we read things "out of order" chronologically - but *in* order thematically/regionally.

 

Am I groking what you are getting at, or am I totally missing your point?

[Farrar]

Why not just do the Empires in chronological order? They didn't ALL exist at the same time...

 

That's what I assumed Hunter meant.  Hunter, am I right?

[Hunter]

Yes, I want to do the empires in chronological order as much as possible, but there is overlap. It's kind of like the difference between studying the Bible book by book, or buying a chronological Bible.

 

For resources, all I have so far is Homeschool in the Woods Great Empires. And bits and pieces, lots of bits and pieces.

 

As for simplistic, I'm not worried about this method being simplistic for ME. :lol: I don't feel qualified to evaluate flows, or always believe the flows that others believe in. I can see SOME people being frustrated by the difficulty in showing the flows THEY believe in so strongly.

 

Personally, I feel more comfortable looking at flows within a SINGLE empire at a time, than ALL of history. All of history is...something beyond MY comprehension.

 

And I think I like the way the word "empire" rolls off my tongue and looks in a a title. :D

[Hunter]

I'm also back to trying to compile a teacher commonplace book, or whatever the title farrarwiiiliams made up, for a cheatsheet. It'll be easier to make cheatsheets for empires than history as a whole.

 

Oh, and another resource I like is the Scholastic Everything You Need to Know about World History Homework. It has lists of contributions of some of the empires.

[Hunter]

And there are bits here and there is this free world missions unit study.

http://harvestministry.org/twghw

[silver]

It's been a while since I looked at it, but I thought that Biblioplan schedules SOTW so that you stay in one civilization rather than hopping around?

 

For ancient history, the TruthQuest history guides are done by empire. They have Egypt (which has OT history thrown in), Greece, and Rome. After that, they go by time period. I think for Egypt/Greece/Rome that it's pretty easy to find books on just that civilization.

[A home for their hearts]

To me this sounds like the kind of thing you get with the OUP World in Ancient Times approach vs. the SOTW/HO approach.  The former covers a region - not necessarily an empire - in detail.  The latter cover history chronologically, jumping from place to place.

 

We have found that we like the regional approach.  We're going to do that next year using OUP when we start with Ancients again.  I've turned this year (modern) into that style of history using SOTW, HO, and other resources, by creating a syllabus where we read things "out of order" chronologically - but *in* order thematically/regionally.

 

Am I groking what you are getting at, or am I totally missing your point?

 

What is OUP World in Ancient Times?

[dragons in the flower bed]

This is pretty much what I've begun doing. We did prehistory in one unit, finished that up and did Mesopotamia all the way from prehistory to Alexander, then began China. We'll take China all the way to modern times before going back to do pre-contact Americas, then Greece, then India. I find it easier to tell the story of history the way a people themselves would tell it -- as their own tale, following their nation. Other nations get occasional brief descriptions as part of the setting, but the nation we're in is the protagonist. Also, this makes it so much easier for me to connect visual arts and literature and religion to our history studies, which is important for the salon-style "discussion group" atmosphere I am trying to create around history at home. We did the Epic of Gilgamesh during Mesopotamia, Monkey during China, and will do Plato during Greece and the Ramayana during India.

 

When we get out of ancients, though, I don't know if I'll be able to do it that way. Since the Renaissance history has been a politically complex tangle of people and nations. I don't know if it'd be a disservice to kids to reinforce the idea that the Christian empire, then the British empire and then the United States ruled and defined the entire world's history... I think in the past six hundred years individuals have had the power of empires to change things so maybe I will switch to a more Genevieve Foster approach once we get out of ancients.

[scrapbabe]

What is OUP World in Ancient Times?

Oxford University Press

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-World-Ancient-Times-Set/dp/0195222423/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391623437&sr=8-1&keywords=world+in+ancient+times

[Recovering Sociopath]

My concern would be that there are plenty of people groups/small civilizations/isolated areas that were never part of an empire. Doing everything by empire kind of...erases them. Just a thought.

[4KookieKids]

I know some people use SOTW but jump around in order to do things more regionally, like you're discussing here. Are there any free resources online that outline which chapters you would lump together and what order you'd go in if you did it this way? It looked like History Odyssey had this, but it seemed a very small part of History Odyssey (most of it was checklist and this was just one thing on the checklist). 

 

Doing things by region/civilization/empire really appeals to me as well, and I think it will appeal more to my kids. So, before I go and do all the work myself, I just figured I might save myself some time by seeing what (free) resources are out there for doing it this way. :)

[Hunter]

I have been all over the place the past couple weeks, trying to figure out my big plan.

 

The plan right now is to do Great Empires, along with the brand new and free LLtL 0, and Evan Moor Daily Science 1.

 

And then do a 4 year rotation with SOTW, Mr Q and LLtL 1-4.

 

And then another overview year with geography and Science Matters and LLtL 5.

 

At least that is the plan for tonight.

 

Thank you all for hashing this out with me.

[4peanuts]

Just wondering if you proceeded with this plan, Hunter, and if so, how the Great Empires curriculum has been working out (or what else you've been using with it).  I'd be interested in hearing any updates!

[Hunter]

Right now my big plan is to have no big plan :lol:

 

I'm doing the 3Rs and READING, just reading, and more reading. Reading whatever.

 

Maybe a month or two ago, maybe a bit longer, I was challenged by someone I have a lot of respect for, to reevaluate my own education. I read and read and read, and had little organized or explicit instruction. Yes, I'm awfully rough around the edges, but I LEARNED and I learned a LOT, and what I learned mostly came from long uninterrupted hours just reading, whatever was handy.

 

I have a copy of Far Above Rubies and have been looking at that a bit, and I downloaded Timeline of Classics and printed it out and color coded some of it. They are there if I feel dry for ideas, but… mostly I'm just doing Robinson Curriculum style days, for my own self-education and tutoring.

 

I'm collecting stacks of good novels, as I get a chance to grab them for free or for a very cheap price. I'm getting rid of more and more curriculum, and collecting more and more REAL books, and using a lot more fiction than I had been. There is a lot of content and lessons about being human in fiction. It's what I grew up on. It's what shaped me. It's what informed me. For a long time, I really believed that non-fiction and more and more and more explicit instruction was the key to a better education, but…I'm just not thinking that right now.

[Slache]

Layers of Learning does this. Here's the TOC.

[Hunter]

Layers of Learning does this. Here's the TOC.

 

I downloaded the sample, and at first glance, it looks good. It says one of the authors has a degree in child development. Curricula that is actually based on the realities of child development and large families is sorely lacking.

 

When it's done, the whole thing will run a  bit over $300.00 and it uses lots of books as resources, so the price climbs. I'll have to look at it more to see how much the resources are critical, or optional, or easy to substitute.

 

Thanks for the link. it's interesting.

[Slache]

I downloaded the sample, and at first glance, it looks good. It says one of the authors has a degree in child development. Curricula that is actually based on the realities of child development and large families is sorely lacking.

 

When it's done, the whole thing will run a  bit over $300.00 and it uses lots of books as resources, so the price climbs. I'll have to look at it more to see how much the resources are critical, or optional, or easy to substitute.

 

Thanks for the link. it's interesting.

 

Plus the cost of printing it. It is a 4 year program though, so it's less than $100 a year.

[Hunter]

I wouldn't try and print this. Where would I store it? Home printed things take up more room than professionally printed. If I wanted hardcopy, I guess this would be pretty expensive.

 

It's quite interesting looking.

[4KookieKids]

Liking for an update from anyone who's worked on this more and- dare I say it- has actual plans for doing it that others might be able to follow?

Edited March 8, 2016 by deanna1ynne

[Alessandra]

This is sort of how we have done it. I disagree that it's simplistic. I think when you spend time on a single place/system then you get to go into more depth and do more with it than if it's broken up. So, for example, I think for a young child studying ancient Egypt, that they're probably remember more and get more out of it if they spend a month on Egypt straight through with projects (and notebooking!) than if they do a week on one Egyptian topic, a week on a Mesopotamian civilization, then back to Egypt, etc. I'd much rather do one first and keep the overlaps straight with a timeline.

I agree with this approach. That is the way Core Knowledge (which both Hunter and I like) does it. I think it is a good way for kids to keep things straight. Time enough when they are older to link everything together. CK also emphasizes reading in a content area (meaning one subject at a time) as being helpful to reading comprehension. I certainly found it was very helpful for my comprehension- challenged kids.

 

Homeschool in the Woods has an Empires unit. Maybe not Hunter's cup of tea, but I thought I'd mention it.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Alessandra

[Squirkle]

We kind of do something similar to this, partly because I needed to add in far more British history than is covered in most Ancients curriculums e.g. SOTW. The National curriculum for primary age pupils here is almost exclusively prehistoric Britain through to 1066. I didn't want my kids to miss that but also wanted to cover all the other Ancient civilisations of the world too.

 

The pattern we have fallen into is: read through SOTW, a couple chapters per week with notebook pages and update our timeline. Then when we get to a point that the kids find particularly interesting (or a convenient point to jump across to "let's find out what happened in Britain at that time") we will stop moving forward with SOTW or read all the chapters it offers on that subject at once. We will stop at that time/location for 3-4 weeks, read widely on that topic, do arts and crafts, eat food from that culture, watch documentaries, learn more about their beliefs and culture and read stories written by those people and look at the art from that time. If possible we will also make a visit to a museum or other place linked to that topic.

 

When we have completely exhausted that topic we revert back to reading through SOTW. During the periods of intense focus on History topics, we will cut back on how much is done in other areas e.g science, geography (Maths an LA continue regardless). Then when we go back to just SOTW plus notebook/timeline, we will work more intensively on a science topic instead for a time. In this way we end up covering all the content over the course of the full year.