Any dog/cat/animal behavorists? This is long....

[Mom-ninja.]

We just adopted a 2 yr old Lab from a rescue. We have had Labs before so I am familiar with the breed. This dog was supposed to be kid and cat approved. I've discovered that he is not so much kid and cat approved.

 

He's background as far as we know. He came from a family who kept him tied outside all day regardless of weather. He was allowed in at night, but went out in the morning again. The landlord took the dog away because the dog was always tied in the yard and never had any interaction.

 

This family had two boys ages 2 and 4 so the Lab rescue considered him approved for small children. His foster home had no children, but she did have cats. She also had other dogs. This Lab loved playing with the dogs and got along with the big and small dogs.

 

The foster mom told me that the dog chased her cats and she almost told the rescue that she would not be able to foster him due to her cats, but then her one cat scratched him on the face and he stayed away after that.

 

When we visited him at the foster mom's house he was excited and jumped on us but that's wasn't a big deal for me. As I mentioned I've had Labs before and I've trained them to not jump up.

 

Let me tell you about my cat. He's young (not even a year yet) and very social. He loves people including strangers. He greeted strangers at the door and demanded to be held and pet. He loves to play fetch. Loves it. He loves to play with his toys and play with my kids. He loves to play with my mom's dog and they wrestle and chase each other. Before our dog died in December (a Lab) our cat loved to play with him. He is one of the best and most fun cats I've ever had.

 

We've had the dog a week. I'm stressed and torn as to what to do. He is not good with my cat or my two younger kids ages 5 and 9. When I say not good I don't mean that he is aggressive in any way. He gets very very excited and want to PLAY. However, he wants to play like he would play with other dogs.

 

The first time he saw my cat, my cat held his ground but was obviously spitting and warning, and the dog lunged so hard that I didn't maintain my grasp on his leash. My cat went into panic and RAN all around the living room literally bouncing from one wall to the next while I was hanging on to the dog's collar with all my strength. A 68 lb young Lab is very strong. Now, the dog was not aggressive. His tail was wagging and kept going down into a play bow and then jumping up at the cat. My cat ended up behind the TV and I discovered had sprayed pee everywhere from fright.

 

Since then my cat has lived upstairs and has not come down. He spends his time under a bed. When I get him to come out the second he hears a noise he runs back under the bed. We have moved his litter box and food upstairs. I do not allow the dog upstairs.

 

This makes me sad for my cat. As I said he was/is the most friendly and playful cat I've ever had. Now I'm afraid he might be ruined with dogs. I'm afraid he will decide to live upstairs forever. I'm afraid he'll never get to play fetch again because of the dog.

 

Now the kid issue. As I mentioned this dog jumps on people. He no longer jumps up on me or dh because he's learned not to. He also no longer jumps on my teen. However, he still thinks my 9 and 5 yr old are fair game. Now if it was just jumping I'd be fine. It's not. He play bites. However, even a play bite hurts. He's bruised my arm, but he has learned not to do that to me anymore. He still gets excited and tries to jump/bite when I'm working out because I'm bouncing around. When I tell him "off" he stops.

 

However, I cannot get him to stop being rough with my kids. I cannot leave my kids alone with him for a second. Not one second. Yesterday morning, I was getting dressed. The dog was on the floor chewing a toy. My 5 yr old ran and bounced on the bed and the dog, lightning fast, jumped on top of him. My ds curled up in a ball to protect himself and the dog had a hold of his shirt and was shaking his head back and forth. I had to physically pull the dog off.

 

The dog goes after my 9 yr old. Again not aggressively. He is trying to get my ds to play. He pulls on his arm/sleeve when ever he gets the chance. The other day my ds got up to walk into the kitchen and the dog jumped up and lunged at him, bite his arm and started thrashing his head around with my ds's sleeve in his mouth. He tore the shirt and left bruises on his arm. My ds is now afraid of the dog, and I'm sure the dog senses this.

 

So, all week I've been doing all my training tricks that I know of to get the dog to not jump/play attack my kids.

 

This dog is smart. He learns fast with everything else so far. He's already learned to not counter surf, to drop what he has in his mouth when I command him, how to stay (for a short time...he is young), and how to wait at the door until released to go out. He is not aggressive with his food bowl.

 

I was up all night trying to decide if I should give him more time or if I should return him to the rescue and tell them he would be better in a cat free and small child free home. He would love to be with another dog. He seems to desperately want to jump and wrestle, and he could do that with another dog. 

 

My concerns are that he will inadvertently injure one of my kids (beyond the bruises already inflicted) and that my cat will never play the free playing friendly social butterfly he was before the dog came.

 

He is a lovable dog, but gets so super excited that he hurts my kids. As I said there is no way I can leave him in a room alone with my kids. No way. He wants to wrestle and play fight like dogs to with each other.

 

So, what do I do? Give him more time and training and in the mean time keep an eagle eye on him like I have been, or tell the rescue he'd be better in a home sans cat, kids younger than teen age, and with another dog?

 

Please be aware that I do NOT "give up" on animals lightly. Plus, he would be returned to the rscue and NOT a pound. I have trained Labs with bad doggie manners before. Chewing, barking, jumping, counter surfing, trash digging, house training, etc. I've dealt with before. However, this is the first Lab I've had that goes after my kids and tries to shake them like a chew toy.

 

More time/training or let the rescue find him another home?

 

 

[Chris in VA]

I don't know how to train a dog like that, so for me, it would be a give up.

 

I would not want to deal with the fears my kids would develop (and sounds like at least one of yours already has).

 

I might try one of those places that you send your dog to for 30 days and they come back trained well, if it were a place that continued the training WITH you at your home, but probably I'd just try again to adopt another dog.

 

I'm sorry--that's hard.

[JustEm]

The 2 issues you have can certainly be fix but they will take time. The fact that he's learned so quickly that he can't jump on other people shows he can learn not to jump on the little kids you'll just have to spend extra time now getting him there. The cat issue may be trickier because of the way you introduced them may have made the cat scarred but training the dog to be calm with the cat is possible. First thing first is get a crate if you don't have one.  

 

Reintroduce the animals but have the dog in the crate and the cat gets free range of the room (have it be a room the cat can't leave but doesn't need to be right next to the crate.  Have it be 5 or so minutes then let the cat leave the room.  Don't let the dog out of the crate until he calms down.  Do this daily/multiple times a day making the sessions longer. In theory, the dog will eventually just realize he's not getting out of the crate until he's calm.  Once he learns that you can let him out of the crate with the cat in the room but have him leashed to make sure he remains calm.  I've had GREAT success with this in the past and have broken cat/dog issues many times with it.

 

You could even do the same thing with the kids and the dog.  If the kids are in the room with the dog he's in the crate until he calms down.  If he runs at them give them permission to knee him in the chest before he gets to them.  Be hard it won't injure him.  He's stronger then they are but the 9 year old could probably knee him hard enough for him to learn to back off.  

 

It'll be a lot of work but a smart dog like him can learn to control himself

[dancingmama]

I'd contact the rescue and ask them.  The rescues we have used have all had trainers that will help.  He sounds like a puppy and definitely trainable.  He also sounds like he has a lot of energy.  Do you have a yard that he can play in?  If he were my dog, he'd spend quite a bit of outside time chasing things out there and tire him out.  As for the cat, I'd say once dog settles, your cat will come out fine.  Sounds like you might have introduced them too quickly.  I usually split my animals for several days to weeks until everyone gets accustomed to each other.  

 

I'm sorry you're going through this.  Your best option might be to find him a new home but I don't think he's a hopeless cause.  It sounds like he just needs some more training and some way to let loose his energy in a safe space.  

[Mom-ninja.]

Yes, we have a fenced acre for him. I go out with him many times and play ball/frisbee with him. I can't run with him yet (I used to jog with my other dog) because he will get too excited and jumps/nips.....working on that.

 

My 9 yr is technically old enough to stop the dog, but he doesn't. My kid freezes when it comes to him being scared or intimated. He is NOT good with stressful or intimating circumstances. At all.

[RoughCollie]

I would return him to the rescue, unless you have the time and inclination to train him, plus wait until he is around 3 years old so he starts to calm down.

 

He is not good with kids and cats and the rescue made a mistake in placing him with your family because of that.  This is their fault, not yours.

[AK_Mom4]

You could try taking him back to Leash-and-Crate training for a week.  In the house, he is either in the crate or attached by leash to an adult.  All the time.  If he jumps on a kid, the adult is right there to correct the dog.  You could even set him up - leash him and have the kids jump on the bed - then immediately make him calm down. 

 

With regards to the cat - yeah, too fast of an introduction.  HJ gave a good fix method above for introducing them

 

It sounds like the dog is trainable, but you probably need to do some intensive work right away before these patterns become set.  If you can't spend the time, then let the rescue know about the training you HAVE been able to give him as they may be able to continue the work and get him a new placement.

[Pawz4me]

He sounds like a typical young Lab to me.  Despite the reputation they have, I do NOT think they're particularly good choices for homes with young kids.  Sporting breed dogs are all touch insensitive.  They're bred to run through briars and brambles and jump into icy streams and ponds w/o a second thought while hunting and retrieving.  They'd be useless to hunters if they didn't do those things.  But the touch insensitivity means they also think absolutely nothing of slamming into people or other pets.  Can they be trained not to do it?  Yes, sure.  But it takes a lot of work and patience.  A lot.  Plus most Labs that young need a ton of exercise, both physical and mental, in order to stay sane.  You often have to get them tired out mentally and physically before they're calm enough to work on training issues.  Again, it can be done but it requires a lot of work and patience and dedication.

 

So I guess my short answer is it just depends on how much work you want to or can put into it.

 

The introduction to your cat definitely sounds like it was done way, way too fast.

 

Note I'm not a behaviorist.  A canine behaviorist is a person with a specialized veterinary medicine degree.  They're pretty hard to find in many areas of the country.  I'm just a hobbyist trainer and all around dog and cat enthusiast. ;)

[Mom-ninja.]

He is a typical young Lab.

 

I've raised a Lab from 8 weeks old until he died at 11. We had a 1 yr old when we got him. The difference is that we got him as a brand new puppy and trained him from the get go.

 

We've also adopted another young Lab before (he was about 2 or 3). I trained him as well, but again he never messed with my kids who at that time were 6 and 3. He had been socialized to young kids with his previous family. Another difference is that when he adopted him we had my other Lab, and they played/wrestled all the time. So my young Lab had a rough and tumble play buddy and he left my young kids alone.

 

My heart tells me that this dog would love love to be in a home with another large dog so he can wrestle.

 

 

[Mom-ninja.]

I contacted my rescue adoption coordinator and told her what was going on. She said the dog needs to leave my home immediately because they do not want to take the slightest chance of one of my kids getting hurt. She said there are a lot of Labs looking for homes and they will find the best for my family and that this dog is clearly not it. 

 

I still feel rotten and I'm crying because in just a week I've fallen for this guy. I know I'm doing the right thing. I know he will be placed in a good home and he'll not even miss me. It's harder for me than the dog for sure.

 

First, my beloved dog died (back in December) and now our first attempt at a new dog is a fail. I'm tired of heart ache.

[dirty ethel rackham]

:grouphug: :grouphug: Oh, I am so sorry that you are hurting.  That has to be so hard. The rescue messed up on this one as they did not have enough information to make an accurate assessment of the ideal fit for him.  It sounds like you are working with a good rescue if they are willing to accept responsibility for their mistake and work to make it right.  Please don't look at this as a fail - look at it as a foster situation ... you gave this dog love and training, and you gave the rescue some really useful information about this dog. 

[Mom-ninja.]

Crap, now I'm really crying. I was told to call the coordinator for the area he got him from. That lady was mean and very rude. She basically said she of course will take the dog back since I am obviously not willing to put in the time to train him properly. She said she finds it hard to believe that I'm having problems with him because he has child history and that family never said he had a problem with their kids. She said I have allowed this dog to behave this way because I do not know how to properly handle a dog. She said this happens a lot when a person does not want to bother with learning proper dog training, and if I didn't want to work with a trainer she would take the dog back. She said my problems with the dog are easily fixed if I wanted to be bothered to correct him.

 

While she was talking to me I started crying, and I'm sure she thinks I'm a total cry baby wuss. She was so rude, and normally I can stand my ground when someone is rude to me, but I'm already so sad that I broke down on the phone.

 

 

[Pawz4me]

The adoption coordinator is right.  The area coordinator is very wrong.

 

Please don't be upset.  You're doing the right thing for this dog.  You helped the rescue group learn some things about him, and about where he'll fit best.  And there's another dog, one who'll be a perfect (or almost perfect) fit for your family waiting out there somewhere.

[gingersmom]

Crap, now I'm really crying. I was told to call the coordinator for the area he got him from. That lady was mean and very rude. She basically said she of course will take the dog back since I am obviously not willing to put in the time to train him properly. She said she finds it hard to believe that I'm having problems with him because he has child history and that family never said he had a problem with their kids. She said I have allowed this dog to behave this way because I do not know how to properly handle a dog. She said this happens a lot when a person does not want to bother with learning proper dog training, and if I didn't want to work with a trainer she would take the dog back. She said my problems with the dog are easily fixed if I wanted to be bothered to correct him.

 

While she was talking to me I started crying, and I'm sure she thinks I'm a total cry baby wuss. She was so rude, and normally I can stand my ground when someone is rude to me, but I'm already so sad that I broke down on the phone.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

You have done nothing wrong. Kudos to you for realizing this is the wrong dog for your family.

 

Shame on that person for making you feel bad.

[RoughCollie]

The area coordinator is a jerk, plain and simple.  Not only that, she's wrong!  Chalk it up to her being like one of those environmental terrorists... they will stop at nothing, and some people are like that about dogs.

 

I'm sorry the dog didn't work out for your family.  :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

This is one of those times when doing the right thing for everyone, including the dog, is just hard.

 

 

[Chris in VA]

Ooo--I am just seething at the jerky response you got. Honestly, there are times on this board I wish I could call jerky people and just give them a piece of my mind. How DARE she.

 

REALLY.

 

:grouphug:

[LucyStoner]

The area coordinator should be reported to the rescue. That's terribly unprofessional and a dog that was only tied up with kids is not necessarily experienced or good with kids. You'd think the everyone involved with the rescue org who rescued him from that would get that...

[Twinmom]

I got a reaction like that from a rescue once and between that and giving up my baby, I was heartbroken. It was, however, the right thing to do and I don't regret it. My dog was really gonna hurt someone.

 

You have a typical lab and, yes, those issues can be trained out of him. With your set of circumstances, however, you are not the one to do it. You are doing the right thing for the dog...it is too bad that many so called rescuers don't see the honor in that.

Ignore that woman and listen to the first one, for sure.

[SadieMarie]

I would return him too, sad as that is.  

[Mom-ninja.]

Ok, he went back. I can say that my cat is the happiest cat in the state right now. My adoption liaison told me again that it's not my fault that the dog was not a good match for us. She also said that she is going to report the other woman to the board.

 

 

[LibraryLover]

nm Read the update.